Club Sale | It’s done!

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AneRu said:
It will take at least £2bn for the VC to buy out the four who want out, that money isn't coming into the club so it won't solve the stadium and training ground issues which will still need money. So suppose they also put up a loan of £2b to the club to sort out those issues, will United ever make enough per year to service that debt and keep the squad competitive?

If the squad isn't kept in a competitive state we it be in a position to take advantage of the expected streaming and ESL booms? I just dont see how it will work, there are just a lot of questions to justify walking away from over £5b.

The touted minority investments sound a lot like the sort of entrapment that happened to the Chinese guy who bought AC Milan. By the time these vultures are through with the Glazers the club will be on its knees because there will be a lot of squabbling, unrealistic demands and so on until the Glazers cave in. The next three or four years will be tough.
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This is exactly where most sensible people are coming from, ok so say your the VC and you decide to buy out the other 4 siblings. They currently own 43% of 69% or 62% of the controlling shares and want approx £2bn to sell up, why would any VC want to pay out that to get a minority share of say 20% of the club it’s not happening, they will want a minimum of 46-49% of new voting shares in a restructure which allows them a huge say in the way the club is being run plus allowing them the chance to mitigate their risk by taking over the club if Joel and Avram’s decisions start to effect their chance of recouping their investments.

The more you think about the logistics, it just doesn’t seem like it can happen without the two remaining Glazers getting completely shafted later on in the decade!
 
CodeRed said:
1, The glazers are now in the process of 3rd round bids. So that's what a sale is.

2, United put up season ticket prices. That indicates a non sale.

So no one knows what the hell is going on. The caf, media....and possibly the bidders.
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United has been losing money for the past 3 years. It makes sense to raise the season ticket prices whether the club is sold or not. It makes even more sense to announce it now. Imagine if the Glazers announce that they aren't selling the club and then they announce that they are raising the ticket prices. What Wums call the special ones would go on riot and rightly so.
 
Woziak said:
This is exactly where most sensible people are coming from, ok so say your the VC and you decide to buy out the other 4 siblings. They currently own 43% of 69% or 62% of the controlling shares and want approx £2bn to sell up, why would any VC want to pay out that to get a minority share of say 20% of the club it’s not happening, they will want a minimum of 46-49% of new voting shares in a restructure which allows them a huge say in the way the club is being run plus allowing them the chance to mitigate their risk by taking over the club if Joel and Avram’s decisions start to effect their chance of recouping their investments.

The more you think about the logistics, it just doesn’t seem like it can happen without the two remaining Glazers getting completely shafted later on in the decade!
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Why would they accept a minority stake when they had bought the majority of shares?
 
Woziak said:
This is exactly where most sensible people are coming from, ok so say your the VC and you decide to buy out the other 4 siblings. They currently own 43% of 69% or 62% of the controlling shares and want approx £2bn to sell up, why would any VC want to pay out that to get a minority share of say 20% of the club it’s not happening, they will want a minimum of 46-49% of new voting shares in a restructure which allows them a huge say in the way the club is being run plus allowing them the chance to mitigate their risk by taking over the club if Joel and Avram’s decisions start to effect their chance of recouping their investments.

The more you think about the logistics, it just doesn’t seem like it can happen without the two remaining Glazers getting completely shafted later on in the decade!
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The other thing is that a VC paying off the other four wont solve the major issues at the club requiring huge funding. So that investor will also likely have to stump up another 2b concessionary debt but with strict payment deadlines (a honey trap to facilitate a cheaper takeover down the line) to solve the issues limiting the growth of the club and, like you say, the wont do so without a major say in how things go.

The Glazers will have advice on how things will turn out, they are all MBA holders and I suspect they still have Woodward on speed dial, they will know the pitfalls of such a deal which why I think this is all posturing. Its simpler to jut take the money and run than invite a beast who wont hesitate to eat you alive should you just slip.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It won't increase: but the B shares (the type owned by the Glazers) will (or so people think) be converted to A shares once sold: this means that if e.g. Bryan Glazer sells a share to me, that share goes from being "worth" ten votes for him (class B) to being worth just one vote for me (class A).
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Who is that donkey who wants to buy shares that turn into 1/10 of their original voting power leaving the idiots Avram and Joel in control with as little as 25% of the total number of shares?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
They wouldn't have the majority of the controlling shares/votes.
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they will be buying off 4 of the 6 siblings shares and yet they are expected to have a minority stake because these spoiled brats who ran the club to the ground has some piece of paper who says that they will remain in control no matter what. Now tell me why on earth would anyone invest to that? They might as well let the whole damn thing sink to the ground and then step in when these idiots come to their senses. Which guess what? Is what had been happening throughout the past few years. In fact the Glazers had failed to find external investment and were forced to put the club for sale.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Not quite. Glazers shares are worth 10x voting rights, any shares sold will convert to class A which are worth a single vote. Joel and Avi would still have significant control of the club.
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So in other words, this will never happen. No one (unless they are totally inept) would buy more than 50% of the club and still let Joel and Avram run it.
 
devilish said:
Now tell me why on earth would anyone invest to that?
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We've been over this: they obviously wouldn't do that.

They would make a deal with the remaining Glazers that would involve a restructuring of the shares/voting rights, etc.
 
Giggsyking said:
So in other words, this will never happen. No one (unless they are totally inept) would buy more than 50% of the club and still let Joel and Avram run it.
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exactly.

The Glazers had been inviting external investment to no avail. Then they were FORCED to put the club on sale and they thought that there would be a queue of people ready to play to their tune. Turned out that they failed on that as well. Now these 'minority bids' had suddenly popped out which weren't available 6 months ago whom they are toying with. Yet...the 3rd bid process had still been triggered despite these minority bids was what they were seeking in the first place.
 
Giggsyking said:
Who is that donkey who wants to buy shares that turn into 1/10 of their original voting power leaving the idiots Avram and Joel in control with as little as 25% of the total number of shares?
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See above. Nobody would do that.

If Avram and Joel actually do this (in some shape or form) they will have to relinquish control to a considerable degree. The investors/buyers (of the other siblings' shares) would be on the board, etc. It would be a new ownership structure, essentially.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
We've been over this: they obviously wouldn't do that.

They would make a deal with the remaining Glazers that would involve a restructuring of the shares/voting rights, etc.
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If anyone is buying a majority share of anything then they usually expect to control it unless of course they believe that the people managing the darn thing are so bright that they can do a better job then they do. I doubt that's the case with Avram and Joel.
 
I watched the NBC stream yesterday for the Forest match and after the analysis
, Robbie Mustoe ( who I am not overly keen on ) did make a good point, in that it is currently difficult to assess where Manchester United will be next season because of the uncertainty of the ownership.

It was how he said it, which was interesting as he groaned when he uttered "another third round of bids". He obviously went into say he felt for Ten Hag as he does not know what his budget is going to be (which has been reflected in the press.) In other words it seems like Ten Hag would like to enter the race for Jude Bellingham, but is unsure what the funds are going to be?

Another thing that stands out is, Ten Hag said that Martial will probably stay next season. I like many supporters he was going to leave in order to raise funds. Is that because Ten Hag will not have a sizeable budget or is it a way encouraging a player whilst he is still here?

It feels like a long drawn out drama when anything involves this club. It is a carousel, like Carl Anka says; "Manchester United seem to be making the right steps, but not quite getting there during the final step."
 
CodeRed said:
1, The glazers are now in the process of 3rd round bids. So that's what a sale is.

2, United put up season ticket prices. That indicates a non sale.

So no one knows what the hell is going on. The caf, media....and possibly the bidders.
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How does putting up tickets indicate a non sale? Inflation has been up 10%, services cost more than they did a few years ago and ticket prices have been stagnant at United for 15 years, they had to go up at some point.
 
Glazers need to be careful not overplay their hand here, Jassim and SJR might just get sick of been so blatanly played for fools and walk away.
 
devilish said:
If anyone is buying a majority share of anything then they usually expect to control it unless of course they believe that the people managing the darn thing are so bright that they can do a better job then they do. I doubt that's the case with Avram and Joel.
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Sure, but the fact remains that certain investors are - if we can believe what's been reported - interested in buying a minority stake in the club.

Another fact (again according to what's been consistently reported) is that the other four siblings want to sell their shares.

Based on this, it would appear that someone does believe that it makes sense to invest in United in a non-majority capacity, with Joel and Avram retaining a majority of the controlling shares.

So, one has to try and explain this - yes? Even if it's not the most likely outcome - which it isn't, in my opinion. Like I've said several times, as far as I'm concerned the likeliest outcome remains that the Glazers will end up selling (specifically to Qatar).
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Bit of a gamble isn't it?

If they stay, there will be no capital investment. So that outlay of work already apparently worth circa £2bn will cost even more then and be even further behind our rivals (Everton and Liverpool will have huge upgrades by then).

De Gea, Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen, Fernandes etc (many key players) will all need replacing by then. Another huge outlay for the 2025 bidders to make United competitive again.

INEOS already went for Chelsea, Qatar have interest in PL investment United or not. If both are turned away now, likelihood is both will buy into other PL clubs. This means that there's likely 2 more clubs who will be building better squads than us and serious competition to the top 4, and that they won't be returning as bidders for United in 2025.

The debts of.. £800m?... will all be bigger then and probably have surpassed £1bn

They'll have been told all this by their advisors. Bigger debts, worse squad, bigger capital investment required, bigger debts, more PL competition, the current serious bidders won't return.. This is all before we even think about what the fan backlash would be.

Make no mistake, their ultimate goal is to squeeze as much money out of United as they possibly can, whether all at once or over time. If they don't sell now for a World Record fee, there is absolutely no guarantee they are getting more down the road and are risking the possibility they could get much less.
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I wish you didn't fill me with false hope back then :(
 
I wonder if we’ll see the day where business around the club isn’t protracted for an eternity and we become efficient. Fecking bastard owners.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Sure, but the fact remains that certain investors are - if we can believe what's been reported - interested in buying a minority stake in the club.

Another fact (again according to what's been consistently reported) is that the other four siblings want to sell their shares.

Based on this, it would appear that someone does believe that it makes sense to invest in United in a non-majority capacity, with Joel and Avram retaining a majority of the controlling shares.

So, one has to try and explain this - yes? Even if it's not the most likely outcome - which it isn't, in my opinion. Like I've said several times, as far as I'm concerned the likeliest outcome remains that the Glazers will end up selling (specifically to Qatar).
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The only reason why the minority stake would make sense is if Joel/Avram were able to persuade 1-2 of their siblings to hold on to their shares. Even then, there's still an issue as of why anyone would want to buy a minority stake in a business that is poorly run and is losing money.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
I wonder if we’ll see the day where business around the club isn’t protracted for an eternity and we become efficient. Fecking bastard owners.
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This isn’t a player transfer! It’s far more complicated. Have some patience! ( especially as it isn’t the club conducting the sale, it is Raine)
 
ForeverRed1 said:
If Qatar/Jim don’t get us, will they go for another premier league club?
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Probably and we can all sit and cry into our beers when we are fighting for EL places. Chelsea (money) are one manager away from challenging, Liverpool will be back (possible sale) , City (Money) are already there and Newcastle (Money) and Arsenal on the rise. This year will be the easiest for years to come. I am very worried.
 
glasgow 21 said:
Probably and we can all sit and cry into our beers when we are fighting for EL places. Chelsea (money) are one manager away from challenging, Liverpool will be back (possible sale) , City (Money) are already there and Newcastle (Money) and Arsenal on the rise. This year will be the easiest for years to come. I am very worried.
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They might even look at buying Villa.
 
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