Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[manutddjw]

Along with my belief that he can become a top player, my disgust with our ownership is why I'm so dead set against selling Garnacho.

Basically we have to sell one of our brightest prospects because of our incompetent owners and the people THEY appointed to run our football club. All the while taking dividends and saddling the club with interest payments for the privilege of having these leeches owning us and getting richer.

We as fans should be rallying against the Glazers (and Ineos too for keeping them), but most of our fans are more than happy to justify it and allow it to happen because hey we might get a new left wing back in January.

 

[Plant0x84]

The end of the letter asking fan ideas to increase revenue has left me truly gobsmacked

Bear in mind who they are writing to and the relationship they have with that organisation. Any ideas forwarded will probably be filed in file 13.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Are FFP rules changing in the summer? We’re in a bit of a mess if not - losing money hand over fist. The last few years have shown it wasn’t just footballing decisions that the Glazer bellends were incompetent in - off the pitch they’ve been atrocious too.

Our financial situation is shit even if FFP/PSR were to completely go away overnight

 

[Castia]

I bet this club gets relegated within 5 years

No money and a squad full of morons on 200k+ a week

We needed the Glazers out and the debt wiping this Sir Jim deal has done nothing for the club what so ever

 

[Mickeza]

Our financial situation is shit even if FFP/PSR were to completely go away overnight

Okay. But I’d still be interested to know if the FFP changes coming this summer impact that 105m loss over three years rule.

 

[The Hilton]

I’m getting the impression it cost more than their cost cutting has saved. I also get the impression they fecked this season when they kept a lame duck in charge. We’ll need to increase the cost of ticket prices another £20 to pay for missing out on Europe.

We've been haemorrhaging money for years though, yes it cost us money to sack Ten Hag, and we paid a small fee for Ashworth, but even without those expenditures we'd need to find a way to stop making huge losses.

 

[Berbaclass]

We've been haemorrhaging money for years though, yes it cost us money to sack Ten Hag, and we paid a small fee for Ashworth, but even without those expenditures we'd need to find a way to stop making huge losses.

Ten Hag is still being paid.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I bet this club gets relegated within 5 years

No money and a squad full of morons on 200k+ a week

We needed the Glazers out and the debt wiping this Sir Jim deal has done nothing for the club what so ever

Sounds like we're fecked

 

[The Hilton]

Ten Hag is still being paid.

If there's a point to your comment, you'll need to explain it, I can't see how it's relevant.

 

[Berbaclass]

If there's a point to your comment, you'll need to explain it, I can't see how it's relevant.

I'm saying it wasn't a lump sum so the impact was lessened. We didn't fork out £20 million in one go.

 

[The Hilton]

I'm saying it wasn't a lump sum so the impact was lessened. We didn't fork out £20 million in one go.

That's fair, sorry for my tone, I'm too used to folks trying to post got has recently.

Either way though, lump sum or just paying him as usual, that alone isn't the reason for cost cutting, and the post suggesting that was lacking rationality.

 

[Roboc7]

I could see INEOS issuing convertible debt to the club at favorable rates that'll eventually convert to equity and dilute the Glazers' stakes.

It’s definitely a plausible scenario, I don’t think refinancing and just continuing to pay interest is going to be an option. I would assume either the Glazers have to have become minority owners by then or something is done about the debt.

Interest rates were historically low when they last refinanced, it’s going to be a lot more expensive in 2 and 4 years time when they have to refinance all that leveraged debt.

 

[acnumber9]

What an incredibly short sighted view this is.

We've wasted in excess of a billion pounds on players over the past decade. We've wasted hundreds of millions on obscene contracts. We're still hemorrhaging cash on dross like Rashford, Casemiro, Antony, and Mount. That's almost one million pounds per week leaving the club on four players who provide feck all in return.

But sure, our financial situation is the fault of Ineos for not sacking Ten Hag in the summer

Then the solution to that is to be more efficient in your decision making. Don’t extend the contract of a manager you didn’t want. The number of people happy to defend jobs being cut and fans being fleeced for more cash when people are struggling for money is sickening.

 

[acnumber9]

So if you know of the Glazers, I assume you would also acknowledge that the almighty mess INEOS are tasked with sorting out isn’t of their making?

It’s not about being apologist for anyone, it’s about being pragmatic and realistic about the situation. We’re all (supposedly) on the same side. Grow up.

I never said it was of their making. I’ve said what they’re doing won’t make us successful on the pitch and defending it is sickening.

 

[Escobar]

No way they can be allowed to sell Garnacho

 

[Plant0x84]

I never said it was of their making. I’ve said what they’re doing won’t make us successful on the pitch and defending it is sickening.

Wow. You’re really doubling down on defending your throwing toys out of the pram tantrum post because they gave ten Hag a 2nd chance after the cup win? Remarkable.

 

[acnumber9]

Wow. You’re really doubling down on defending your throwing toys out of the pram tantrum post because they gave ten Hag a 2nd chance after the cup win? Remarkable.

Sorry for thinking making cuts and increasing ticket prices isn’t just super. Could’ve saved fleecing fans by not wasting money elsewhere.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Is that not what happened with the training ground developments?

No that I am aware, I thought it was Ineos who funded the upgrades.

 

[Plant0x84]

Sorry for thinking making cuts and increasing ticket prices isn’t just super. Could’ve saved fleecing fans by not wasting money elsewhere.

You’ve been told by several other posters that the hundreds of millions in losses that has us in this tight spot is nothing to do with INEOS, ten Hag or Ashworth and yet here we are. Granted the bit spent on ETH and Ashworth wasn’t helpful, but overstaffed is still overstaffed. Overspending is still overspending. Loss making is still loss making.
Football fans have been fleeced long before sjr invested in United. Nothing new there.

 

[soapythecat]

They need to be leaning on Casemiro to move on. He would relieve a lot of pain. In the finances and he is offering nothing at the moment.

 

[acnumber9]

No that I am aware, I thought it was Ineos who funded the upgrades.

In return for equity. It wasn’t them being altruistic. The Glazers gave up shares for it to happen.

 

[acnumber9]

You’ve been told by several other posters that the hundreds of millions in losses that has us in this tight spot is nothing to do with INEOS, ten Hag or Ashworth and yet here we are. Granted the bit spent on ETH and Ashworth wasn’t helpful, but overstaffed is still overstaffed. Overspending is still overspending. Loss making is still loss making.
Football fans have been fleeced long before sjr invested in United. Nothing new there.

We’re in this spot because of incompetence. INEOS have done nothing but continue that trend.

I still fondly remember that terrace chant, green and gold until somebody comes in and raises ticket prices.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Okay. But I’d still be interested to know if the FFP changes coming this summer impact that 105m loss over three years rule.

I think it's going to be 85% of footballing revenue instead of the static 105mil over 3 seasons. So it will fully replace the old rule. There'll also be an anchoring cap, where all clubs can only spend 5 times what the lowest earning team in the league earns.

UEFA will only allow teams to spend 70% from next season though so, not that we have to worry about it yet, teams in their competitions will be even more restricted, on paper at least.

 

[Andy_Cole]

My point of view is Ratcliffe is an extremely selfish man. He was given the opportunity to run United and couldn’t say no. Even though he’s not prepared to put his money where his mouth is. We will suffer due to not getting much influx of cash. We are not sustainable with the interest payments.

Getting this vile man in has killed us.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

Wow. Well then. Yikes.

Guess this rules out any effective signings then

 

[Lay]

Relegation in 5 years at this rate

 

[Plant0x84]

Even though he’s not prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

1.3bn and 300m say different.

 

[Andy_Cole]

1.3bn and 300m say different.

1.3bn to the Glazers.

 

[ItDoesntEvenMata]

I'm done with the club if we sell Garnacho. It's the principle - we've gone from a club about exciting attacking flair players to scraping around in Jan with a paper thin squad of sub par characters and selling our most United-like assets.

Grim

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

How are they looking at the product on the pitch and thinking that raising ticket prices & asking fans to cooperate is a good idea.

 

[Superunknown]

Got to say that this is a huge wake up call. This is a huge problem. If we sell Garnacho because we need the cash, then alarm bells should definitely be ringing. Without money and reinvestment, we're going to continue that slide down. This is a real concern now.

 

[Red in STL]

It’s definitely a plausible scenario, I don’t think refinancing and just continuing to pay interest is going to be an option. I would assume either the Glazers have to have become minority owners by then or something is done about the debt.

Interest rates were historically low when they last refinanced, it’s going to be a lot more expensive in 2 and 4 years time when they have to refinance all that leveraged debt.

It depends on who refinances it, in the past there was a school of thought that INEOS would do this not United, if that still holds true then the club won't have the debt anymore, because of the size of INEOS they would get a better rate than the club ever could, guess we'll have wait and see

 

[Redjazz]

You’ve been told by several other posters that the hundreds of millions in losses that has us in this tight spot is nothing to do with INEOS, ten Hag or Ashworth and yet here we are. Granted the bit spent on ETH and Ashworth wasn’t helpful, but overstaffed is still overstaffed. Overspending is still overspending. Loss making is still loss making.
Football fans have been fleeced long before sjr invested in United. Nothing new there.

Whether you like it or not United IS a business, and no business can survive for long making loses into the hundreds of millions annually.

These measures aren’t savoury, they absolutely suck for those involved and these people obviously have the sympathies of the fanbase majority. However, without them the alternative would be bankruptcy, the entire workforce losing their jobs and our great club being consigned to history.

These hard things are absolutely necessary, and will build a solid and stable foundation for the ‘footballing perspective’ to improve from. There is no quick fix here, even if we had vast oil riches - we have to work within the rules. Please be patient.

Steady on there. There is no scenario, however far fetched, where that happens. None. The cuts you describe aren't "absolutely necessary". They help a little, sure, but they are being made now because the real, and far more significant issues, are not so easy to resolve. Low hanging fruit really.
The cuts are ultimately coming from wages and other operating costs, so our cash profits (EBITDA) will improve. Indeed, our cash profits post cuts will make us the most cash profitable club in the PL (measured by EBITDA).
A big improvement from our standing pre cuts, which was..... the most cash profitable club in the PL as measured by EBITDA. Catch my drift.
Every other club in the PL that passes PSR, which is almost all of them, is working of a lower profit base than ours.
Awfulizing about overstaffing is attaching a way to much significance to a minor issue. The big culprits hindering sustainability and cash flow are (1)poor player recruitment (high amortization costs and poor profit from player sales) and (2)finance costs.
Solving 1 will take some time, a little pain, but is fixable. The second just require the owners' (INEOS and the Glazers) willingness to address the issue. They have the means. Fixing 2 helps with fixing 1. Removing the debt fixes the PSR problem and improves cash flow and makes Amorim's job a lot easier.

 

[Red00012]

I bet this club gets relegated within 5 years

No money and a squad full of morons on 200k+ a week

We needed the Glazers out and the debt wiping this Sir Jim deal has done nothing for the club what so ever

So we’ve gone from been supposedly relegated this season to now getting relegated in the next 5 years. Fantastic

 

[Big Ben Foster]

It depends on who refinances it, in the past there was a school of thought that INEOS would do this not United, if that still holds true then the club won't have the debt anymore, because of the size of INEOS they would get a better rate than the club ever could, guess we'll have wait and see

The club would still need to compensate INEOS somehow, either with equity or transfer payments to cover the servicing of the debt.

 

[FujiVice]

Man United are a very attractive name. If it gets to the point where cash cow has ran dry, the Glazers wouldnt want it. It'll be up to someone to actually turn up and throw money at us to buy it. We arent Ipswich Town. Man United arent just a club. They are a British institution, and unless you are a parasite like the Glazers who take and take and run it into the ground, then its almost impossible not to make money on it. Hopefully this will run those cnuts off for good. Whether its INEOS who take over fully is another question, but there's no way the Glazers will stick around how they have finally took the last coin out the piggy bank.

 

[Moriarty]

Relegation in 5 years at this rate

Maybe less. I never thought I'd live to see us in a position again where it might be a possibility but here we are. It won't happen this season but to think that Manchester United, one of the richest clubs in the game, is now having to flog academy graduates leaves a bad taste. All because of those fecking carpetbagging, greedy, parasitic bastards in Florida.

 

[Red in STL]

The club would still need to compensate INEOS somehow, either with equity or transfer payments to cover the servicing of the debt.

I would think that SJR would want further equity for sure, as for servicing the loan, maybe not, this might be his way of 'putting his money where his mouth is' - in a company the size of INEOS this is probably small beer in comparison to loans the usually take out

 

[croadyman]

Enough is enough. I wasn't pro Qatar bid but Jim and Glazers are leading Man UTD off a cliff. The biggest problem at UDT financially is the Glazer debt. Take that away and the monthly interest payments and the club is at a great place financially. Time to sell the club to owners who can clear the debt and finance a new stadium on their own. Its freaking obvious Jim can't afford it. So why is he insistent on running the club when he can't bring it to a good place financially. Sell it for heaven's sake. UTD don't need a sugar daddy. They just need someone who can take the financial burden away that was unfairly put on the club

Who is that person that has the financial capability to take this burden of debt away though. I have referenced some of the big NBA/NFL guys in previous posts, however don't see them as having the financial muscle. I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that Ratcliffe has any intention of clearing the debt which is strangling this club. Maybe our value tanks a bit and it might bring interested parties to table.

 

[gulli_G]

Instead of selling the club, they aligned with Jim, still hoping for a cashcow if he could turn it around. Things have gone worse, time to sell and clear the debts.