Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Think the penny has dropped with at least some fans, Ineos are not here to counter the effects of glazers on man utd, it's to turbocharge it. Which is why they sold some of their stake to them. Wtf has the foundation got to do with footballing operations? Unfortunately as in real life, there's plenty of folk who seem to think billionaires always know best.

People need to reserve their judgement a bit until we see the full picture, they're too easily sucked in by the media at the moment.

There are clearly things going on that don't make sense, but these are easy stories to write for the media to bait the fans with, and it winds me up that the Glazers seem to be getting away with taking any flak for this at the same time.

This isn't been sucked in by 'billionaires knowing best', this is just taking the view that we clearly need to give it a bit more time, and see where this is going longer term.

Personally I don't see why SJR would want to sink the sort of money in that that he has, to then go an ruin the club some more, whilst protecting the Glazers as he goes, it makes no sense.

 

[astracrazy]

Why are we all so adamant this is Ratcliffe/INEOS? I thought he was in charge of footballing operations? Where does staff bonus etc fall into footballing side?

Are we sure this isn’t the Glazers saying “No dividends for us, nothing for you” and the papers just running hit pieces on Ratcliffe?

Because it fits in to the SJR playbook of how he runs a business and what he does when he takes over one.

His view is pretty much every business is over staffed. He wants a lean business, staff wise and financially.

This is 100% him and INEOS flexing their muscles. The Glazers are probably happy for him to do it.

 

[Andy_Cole]

People need to reserve their judgement a bit until we see the full picture, they're too easily sucked in by the media at the moment.

There are clearly things going on that don't make sense, but these are easy stories to write for the media to bait the fans with, and it winds me up that the Glazers seem to be getting away with taking any flak for this at the same time.

This isn't been sucked in by 'billionaires knowing best', this is just taking the view that we clearly need to give it a bit more time, and see where this is going longer term.

Personally I don't see why SJR would want to sink the sort of money in that that he has, to then go an ruin the club some more, whilst protecting the Glazers as he goes, it makes no sense.

It’s not just media. Being in Manchester you hear things from people on the inside. You talk to employees. It’s bad in there.

 

[Lemoor]

Think the penny has dropped with at least some fans, Ineos are not here to counter the effects of glazers on man utd, it's to turbocharge it. Which is why they sold some of their stake to them. Wtf has the foundation got to do with footballing operations? Unfortunately as in real life, there's plenty of folk who seem to think billionaires always know best.

If they were to supercharge the effect of Glazers they would spend a tiny fraction of revenue on stuff like foundations to placate the media/fans and prevent the protests, while sucking the club dry without providing any value to it and letting it rot. The criticism of foundation cuts and treatment of employees and impact of it is fully justified, but in the big picture it doesn't even come close to problems with Glazer management.

 

[astracrazy]

People need to reserve their judgement a bit until we see the full picture, they're too easily sucked in by the media at the moment.

There are clearly things going on that don't make sense, but these are easy stories to write for the media to bait the fans with, and it winds me up that the Glazers seem to be getting away with taking any flak for this at the same time.

This isn't been sucked in by 'billionaires knowing best', this is just taking the view that we clearly need to give it a bit more time, and see where this is going longer term.

Personally I don't see why SJR would want to sink the sort of money in that that he has, to then go an ruin the club some more, whilst protecting the Glazers as he goes, it makes no sense.

That's what everyone said this time last year and no one can say its going well so far.

The season we are having is 100% down to what we all thought would be "their big summer". It turned into one big feck up and now we are paying the price.

They are running around cutting payments to charities and foundations, whilst spunking £15M up the wall keeping and then sacking EtH.

Morale is rock bottom on and off the pitch, which I believe go hand in hand - it's a shit show.

This isn't the Glazers making the call, its INEOS and SJR. Glazers kept prices low, kept paying out to charities etc etc. As I said in a post just above, this is right out of the INEOS/SJR play book of how he runs and takes over business'. Lean on every level.

 

[Mr Anderson]

The actions taken by Ineos since they have taken over is horrendous.

Prolong a chase for a DoF then sack him anyway
Elect to keep a manager then sack him anyway
Money spent but allowed manager to call the shots, equally spent big on Yoro when money could have been better spent elsewhere (not saying Yoro is a bad signing, just the timing of it with the squad so poor especially in the forward line)
Job losses particularly to 'lower end' staff all over the place filling the place with toxicity
Cuts to goodwill and Christmas benefits to lower end staff
MU Foundation next to be targeted according to reports

They really have no clue or clear plan, winging it.

The 'Manchester back in Manchester United' project is effectively doing the opposite, driving out and impacting the locals and dedicated regular match going fan. It is a vanity project that involves saving every penny from every location. The attitute in the club is already at an all time low, no wonder Amorim is facing an uphill battle as no matter what confidence he instills, the cuts and losses will feed into the players, new and current.

If Glazers done half of the above ontop of what they have done (or lack of) over the years, they'd be hanging from a tree. Why is Ineos and Jim getting away with it?? Trying to spin positive PR, new stadium and Old Trafford area - but for who? The people he has already alienated? Time to riot and protest again. Glazers already had us sinking, Ineos and Jim are making sure we go down with them.

 

[Lemoor]

That's what everyone said this time last year and no one can say its going well so far.

The season we are having is 100% down to what we all thought would be "their big summer". It turned into one big feck up and no we are paying the price.

A year ago we were still in the process of sale, the current CEO is not even 6 months since he started working. All of those things are lagging indicators and there is a reason the new board talked more about 2028 than 2025.

 

[astracrazy]

A year ago we were still in the process of sale, the current CEO is not even 6 months since he started working. All of those things are lagging indicators and there is a reason the new board talked more about 2028 than 2025.

And yet they have still managed to make some tragic feck ups in such a short space of time

 

[Lemoor]

And yet they have still managed to make some tragic feck ups in such a short space of time

Yes, they were pressed for time and had to make immidiate decisions. That is always going to come with a bigger failure rate. You could do all the research in the world and it doesn't mean that the new hire is going to be a good choice, if in two years it's still the same unstable situation it's a different matter entirely.

 

[Lentwood]

What is United, some sort of jolly old charity or an elite sports team?

Why should we employ hundreds of people who are deemed surplus to requirements? Why should we donate to all manner of charities who provide dubious benefits to end-users? Why should our ticket prices not rise in-line with inflation and other clubs?

Politically, I am left-leaning...but when it comes to football (and sport in general) the only thing that really matters now is winning. I'm sorry that this is how it turned out. I'd love football clubs to be community owned and have 23 local lads turning out on normal wages because they love the game, but like everything else, we've ruined it with unfettered laissez-faire capitalism. Once you let the wolves in, this is the inevitable result and it's too late now to go back.

The unfortunate truth is, this is the way the game has gone...and when the season ends, we don't get to add extra points because we donated x to charity or because we employed a few extra bodies to keep them happy.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Chelsea’s new owner came in and threw over a billion at their squad and they were already in a far better place than United before he took over. £200 million doesn’t get you much these days and it certainly can’t turn a struggling ship around quickly. If United were serious in summer about a proper squad reboot it would have been at least 500 million but of course we didn’t have it. Thats what Amorim needs between now and the summer in my view.

It took Chelsea a few seasons , even after all that spending, to finally see some sort of improvement. INEOs can’t do that , nor should they while glazers are still majority shareholder. United needs not just a new squad but a new stadium, one preferably that doesn’t leak and have nice infestation.

The glazers only take from the club. This partnership with INEOs suits the Glazers so any issues with INEOs is an issue with the glazers who are the majority shareholder of the club. All our issues stem from them, people need to not forget that. They’ve let the club rot on all levels , turning on INEOs so soon is remarkably fickle.

In a way, the cutbacks are because we have owners who don’t contribute to the club. Had we been fully sold we may still see the cutbacks but SJR could actually throw whatever he wanted at the squad. So once again we are here cause the Glazers want to keep their cake and eat it.

Don’t make it easy for them to hide behind SJR. Whatever you think about him or his methods, he’s already invested way more into the club than the yanks. They wouldn’t piss on old Trafford if it was on fire.

 

[Lemoor]

What is United, some sort of jolly old charity or an elite sports team?

Why should we employ hundreds of people who are deemed surplus to requirements? Why should we donate to all manner of charities who provide dubious benefits to end-users? Why should our ticket prices not rise in-line with inflation and other clubs?

Morale among low-level employees is extremely important in every company and considering the pay disparities that tightening of a screw on them is extremely unlikely to even save any meaningful amount.
Football as an industry also relies in big part on pretending that it's not just business and some random people kicking a ball well, but that it is also a community building endeavor.

 

[Lentwood]

Morale among low-level employees is extremely important in every company and considering the pay disparities that tightening of a screw on them is extremely unlikely to even save any meaningful amount.
Football as an industry also relies in big part on pretending that it's not just business and some random people kicking a ball well, but that it is also a community building endeavor.

Yes but football isn't a "normal" business is it...again...left-wing Labour Party member here..but we live in a capitalist society. Almost anybody can do menial admin. and manual labour jobs, but very few are in the top 0.01% of their trade...and so the wage disparity reflects this.

Also, we're paid not on what we contribute to society but how good we are at generating money for other people. It's why moderately successful recruitment consultants earn more than doctors.

 

[Lyng]

I really don't buy the 'cost saving/incredibly frugal' angle at all. If they were truly laser focused on that, then they're absolute idiots because basically the best decision they had to make up to date (manager's job in the Summer), they made the single most financially irresponsible choice they could have made by needlessly triggering extension on ten Hag's contract which meant firing him down the line (which they ended up doing rather quickly) was going to cost millions more than it would have otherwise.

They're simply trying to put their stamp on operations and show the regular folk at the club that they mean absolutely nothing to them and that going forward this is how this will be. Quite common in business, though also at the same time it's been proven to be quite inefficient in the long term as you struggle with retention / quality of work.

This is absolutely spot on! Insane the amount of corporate bootlicking from some in this thread

 

[sglowrider]

Much more likely if we keep loosing. Serves INEOs right as well. All that nonsense about marginal gains etc, when it appears to be callous exploitative nonsense designed to maximise profits above all else, making a mockery of the proles.

Marginal savings is the new marginal gains. Thats so early 2000s now.

 

[Lee565]

Again why is everyone so sure that ineos will get us back to the top and not keep us in mid table mediocrity when their other footballing ventures have also been pretty underwhelming?

 

[Judas]

Again why is everyone so sure that ineos will get us back to the top and not keep us in mid table mediocrity when their other footballing ventures have also been pretty underwhelming?

Where are you seeing people being sure? People are hopeful and trying to be positive, because it beats being endlessly miserable.

 

[Crackers]

Where are you seeing people being sure? People are hopeful and trying to be positive, because it beats being endlessly miserable.

Maybe I like the misery?

 

[Fridge chutney]

Didn't find anything emberassing or clueless about what @Andy_Cole said. Actually he talks truth

His response to me was laughably misguided and wrong, there is nothing truthful about it.

 

[Hoof the ball]

@vanderpants brother, what's the morale like on the inside of the cub from the staff side?

 

[TheReligion]

@vanderpants brother, what's the morale like on the inside of the cub from the staff side?

Everyone is buzzing and full of festive cheer

 

[Tom Cato]

Legitimately, the ONLY correct thing to do is to find a way to keep funding the foundation, not view the foundation as a cost cut necessity.

At its surface, this makes me sour a LOT towards INEOS

The fans should be protesting this outside the stadium. This is one cause everyone can rally behind

 

[Fridge chutney]

Legitimately, the ONLY correct thing to do is to find a way to keep funding the foundation, not view the foundation as a cost cut necessity.

At its surface, this makes me sour a LOT towards INEOS

The fans should be protesting this outside the stadium. This is one cause everyone can rally behind

The only way this would be acceptable is if INEOS are cutting everything to build from the ground up, at which point they restored and improved funding for the Foundation once the rebuild is done.

Seems like things will continue to get worse before they (hopefully) get better. The lack of communication is concerning.

 

[Strachan8]

Legitimately, the ONLY correct thing to do is to find a way to keep funding the foundation, not view the foundation as a cost cut necessity.

At its surface, this makes me sour a LOT towards INEOS

The fans should be protesting this outside the stadium. This is one cause everyone can rally behind

Does anyone know what the expense ratio of the Foundation is or how much of money granted actually is spent on good causes?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

 

[croadyman]

Man doesn't have the money to fund the stadium by himself, no way he can fund the purchase without borrowing big. If minority ownership has him cutting big money spends like 40k a year to charity, I shudder to think what he will do in the name of costs savings as a majority owner.

Yeah that's a scary thought, like I said earlier we needed someone to properly rival Ratcliffe bid. I didn't want to be state owned but anyone else was priced out of bidding by the greedy leeches

 

[Judas]

Maybe I like the misery?

You came to the right place!

 

[devilish]

The club is losing money, the infrastructure is not up for scratch, the squad is in shambles, the debt is killing us and the football side of management was non existent. The task in place is massive and it require billions of pounds to sort this whole mess up, something a billionaire on his own will probably not bail it out as it makes zero financial sense for him to do so. I hope that the pro INEOS bid can now understand why some of us were open for a sovereign fund to take us over. They might not know what Manchester is all about but they'll probably wouldn't have made the fans and local employees pay for their sports washing.

 

[astracrazy]

Yes, they were pressed for time and had to make immidiate decisions. That is always going to come with a bigger failure rate. You could do all the research in the world and it doesn't mean that the new hire is going to be a good choice, if in two years it's still the same unstable situation it's a different matter enentirely

Who caused them to be pressed for time and make immediate decisions? Only themselves. Or only SJR.

Time is the one thing they had but lost through there own stupid choices.

The manager situation wouldn't have been so pressing had they not of been so amature.

SJR had already decided we needed Ashworth and wanted him asap.

 

[Superden]

I actually agree with the sentiment here. Their plan is quite clear to build a spurs of the north, and sporting mediocrity is a price they will be happy to pay.

 

[roseguy64]

Why are we all so adamant this is Ratcliffe/INEOS? I thought he was in charge of footballing operations? Where does staff bonus etc fall into footballing side?

Are we sure this isn’t the Glazers saying “No dividends for us, nothing for you” and the papers just running hit pieces on Ratcliffe?

Because it's been reported that INEOS have now had their remit expanded because the football and business were too intertwined. Also, they're the ones who hired the consultancy firm specifically to cut costs.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

The view of what good ownership looks like from fans has been completely warped by the clusterfeck that is club ownership in the English leagues. The concept that a football club should be owned by a benevolent billionaire, state, or sovereign wealth fund who endlessly pump billions into it with no expectations of any real returns is a really dumb way to set up a football club. It’s been normalized, and it shouldn’t have been.

Your club can either be fully fan owned, which aligns incentives best, or if it is owned by a corporate entity, and run as a business, then it should be generating profits or at least working with manageable losses that can even out over time. FFP and PSR are not the problem, they’re (weak) attempts to restore a proper working model for ownership of football clubs.

I don’t know how INEOS will fare in the long term, but only a child would seriously expect a decade of bad investments to be fixed in a year. We have amortized transfer fees we’re paying for players who we don’t play, and whose value plummeted since we bought them. Any entity would need a long time to actually fix that. Antony alone, an £86m problem, would cripple some clubs. Yet people write it off as if it is a minor inconvenience.

But we don’t seem to believe in solving problems the right away anymore, which takes time and effort and a lot of good decisions over a long period of time. Whether it is football or beyond, it seems like the motto is let’s just sell any underperforming institution to the highest bidder from anywhere in the world. Anyone who has read a bit of history knows this is a terrible idea.

Bayern have no debt, built a new stadium, generate profits, and have been competitive in Europe for a long time. It can be done without sorting the list of the worlds most unsavoury characters by total wealth in descending order and picking the top 1 to bail you out.

I much rather support a sustainable club that I believe in, than some soft power project where we’re at the mercy of a faraway power to pacify us with some shiny toys every now and then.

We need to give this lot time, in the order of years. There was a point in time when Liverpool’s ownership was thought to be the devil, you don’t hear that anymore. We’ve been mismanaged for far too long for 1 year to make a difference.

 

[Redjazz]

Why are we all so adamant this is Ratcliffe/INEOS? I thought he was in charge of footballing operations? Where does staff bonus etc fall into footballing side?

Are we sure this isn’t the Glazers saying “No dividends for us, nothing for you” and the papers just running hit pieces on Ratcliffe?

As mentioned before, the cost cutting program would require majority consent from the board. So the Glazers would have to approve it if it was an INEOS initiative. At the same time, and even though they are in the majority, the Glazers couldn't instigate it on their own because the Governance agreement (between JR and the Glazers) gives the minority shareholder blocking rights on policies they find disagreeable.
Bottom line, both parties approved.
Only one owner has talked publicly about the need for cuts and "hard choices". So JR, either by design or lack of discretion, has put himself out front. Naturally, because of who he is and what he owns, he is catching serious flak.
Cost cutting was inevitable once we knew the nature of the deal that brought him to the club. It wasn't designed as a rescue package. It could have been much better for the club, but that's a whole other story.

 

[Lemoor]

Who caused them to be pressed for time and make immediate decisions? Only themselves. Or only SJR.

Time is the one thing they had but lost through there own stupid choices.

The manager situation wouldn't have been so pressing had they not of been so amature.

SJR had already decided we needed Ashworth and wanted him asap.

What time are you talking about? What decisions they were supposed to take that would shield them from making immidiate decisions? The club needs to function, the contracts keep progressing and it requires immidiate input.
Of course he wanted a sporting director asap, what else was supposed to happen?

 

[Andy_Cole]

The only way this would be acceptable is if INEOS are cutting everything to build from the ground up, at which point they restored and improved funding for the Foundation once the rebuild is done.

Seems like things will continue to get worse before they (hopefully) get better. The lack of communication is concerning.

Predictably embarrassing and clueless post.

 

[noodlehair]

I really don't buy the 'cost saving/incredibly frugal' angle at all. If they were truly laser focused on that, then they're absolute idiots because basically the best decision they had to make up to date (manager's job in the Summer), they made the single most financially irresponsible choice they could have made by needlessly triggering extension on ten Hag's contract which meant firing him down the line (which they ended up doing rather quickly) was going to cost millions more than it would have otherwise.

They're simply trying to put their stamp on operations and show the regular folk at the club that they mean absolutely nothing to them and that going forward this is how this will be. Quite common in business, though also at the same time it's been proven to be quite inefficient in the long term as you struggle with retention / quality of work.

I think second paragraph is exactly right. It smacks of Ratcliffe trying to apply how he's run his other ventures to a football club. I thi j it's more likely he juat got annoyed at having to fork out to pay employees who he sees as beneath him and pontless than anything to do with ffp.

On ETH. I can understand them making mistakes on the football operations side, but it was a really dumb one for the reasons you stated, and the fact they made it so obvious they didn't really want to keep ETH. It is definitely not something you do if you have a plan.

My biggest concern in the footballing side actually comes down to the same thing as on the non footballing side; how INEOS treat people. Keeping a manager when everyone knows you don't want to, stating all your players are for sale. Bringing in experts then binning them off a few months later. It's just making every aspect of rhe club negative. Everyone is being beaten into thinking they aren't good enough

 

[vanderpants]

@vanderpants brother, what's the morale like on the inside of the cub from the staff side?

Not the best obviously, when Rubin was appointed it gave the staff a temporary buzz but now it's just a bit depressing as there are rumours again that more redundancies are to follow in 2025

 

[Fridge chutney]

Predictably embarrassing and clueless post.

Lazy and pathetic response. Do better.

 

[Crostien]

The so-called '1958' are shills for Qatar.

They speak only for themselves.

By all means ought they criticise Ineos, but it should be viewed within context.

 

[neon_badger]

Not the best obviously, when Rubin was appointed it gave the staff a temporary buzz but now it's just a bit depressing as there are rumours again that more redundancies are to follow in 2025

Surely they can't double down on this, I've heard similar rumours but I'd be shocked if they actually did it.