Club ownership | Senior management team talk

lilcurt said:
An who was going to be identifying this grand successor? The same guys who had appointed the previous ones? As Barrada and Ashworth weren't even in the building at that point.

It would have been foolish to switch manager when there wasn't anyone proven available, FFS this is the same summer Bayern had to settle for a relegated Kompany.

I'm confident if Ancelotti was available we would have pounced, but simply there was no one of a high calibre on the market.

You don't move from a Renault to a Vauxhall when you are in the market for an Audi.
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So Tuchel wasn't proven by winning Champions League with Chelsea, yes he wouldn't be my top target but was certainly the best candidate available this summer

Gutting when you think how much better INEOS would have spent that £180m wasted on Mount, Onana and Antony. We could have bought new LB, CM and a top class proven goalscorer and made this window a 10
 
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There is at least 2 more years to get the team right. I believe in 2 years time, Casemiro, Rashford, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof and Eriksen will be gone maybe Bruno will departure as well. Ineos will need to brings another 7-8 new players in the next 2 years but where is ETH in all of this? Will he be still around? I don't think ETH is the right man for the job as I am not sure if he is capability bringing the best out of the players. United will likely have 5 years before we see results on the field. In the next 5 years, it will be a struggle for everyone so we need to buckle up for the ride.
 
r0663664 said:
There is at least 2 more years to get the team right. I believe in 2 years time, Casemiro, Rashford, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof and Eriksen will be gone maybe Bruno will departure as well. Ineos will need to brings another 7-8 new players in the next 2 years but where is ETH in all of this? Will he be still around? I don't think ETH is the right man for the job as I am not sure if he is capability bringing the best out of the players. United will likely have 5 years before we see results on the field. In the next 5 years, it will be a struggle for everyone so we need to buckle up for the ride.
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Erik won't be around in 2025 let alone 5 years unless he suddenly turns it around dramatically
 
PINGUtd said:
Exactly, some may remember the OGS honeymoon that blinded ourselves

I am very pleased with the new regime.
ETH can be an excellent coach, he is however struggling to improvise with his squad when key players are missing. I do not think it is right to blame him to that extent for last. Our injury crisis has been back-breaking.

And regarding the first three games of this season I am a little torn. On one hand I am really annoyed by the result against Liverpool, on the other we should keep in mind that we were missing:

Shaw
Hojlund
Mount
Yoro

and that some of our most important players had very little pre-season:

Licha
Mainoo
Garnacho
Zirkzee
De Ligt
Mazraoui (albeit he had pre-season with Bayern).

In other words, our squad is "pretty good", but the team is not yet ready for the season. While the statement was surprising, ETH confirmed so in an interview at the start of the season. I do not think he is to blame for the lack of time he had. As said above, I do believe that ETH struggles to improvise under difficult situations with many absences. Yes, Ancelotti/Klopp/Guardiola might have achieved better result under this circumstance, but I do not expect 99% of coaches to do so. Of course, other teams also had players at the Euros, at Copa or injured during summer. However, it does feel that no other team PL Team has been hit as badly with a combination of these challenges.
Who would have thought that a transfer-free Liverpool would not have an advantage against a newly assembled ManUtd team with several pieces sidelined? As a cross comparison; do really think Slot improved Liverpool (yet)? It is no sorcery to play an excellent "more defencively" and it helps when you score all your 3 shots on targets.

Also and on a sidenote, I am afraid that I think that Slot will do well when he also finds the time to coach his team. Regarding the squad and its potential, I am totally optimistic that we will be much better off than Pool in a 2-3 season time. I really think we need to be patient and see the bigger picture.
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At what point do we stop listening to excuses?
 
Let's be honest, we all know they make a major mistake on ETH. Let's see how they will rectify this. It's a matter of time. This is their first real test? :cool:
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Let's be honest, we all know they make a major mistake on ETH. Let's see how they will rectify this. It's a matter of time. This is their first real test? :cool:
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We'll see how the next couple of months shake out. The structure they are setting up looks really good from the outside, now we have to see how they perform. So far from a transfer perspective I think they've done a good job. I don't see a point of getting on their back over Ten Hag. If they think its the right decision to give him more time then so be it. Either way, recent results aside, I think things are looking positive for the club. Come Winter we will know whether Ten Hag is going to be part of that journey or not. If we trust them to sort out transfers, the club etc then we should trust their decisions on the manager.
 
You know you made a major mistake when 3 games into the new season the majority of the fans 82% voted to get the manager sacked. 3 games in!
 
Yakuza_devils said:
You know you made a major mistake when 3 games into the new season the majority of the fans 82% voted to get the manager sacked. 3 games in!
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Not this narrative again, it's INEOS are three games into a rebuild rather than making out Erik is relatively new to the job and saying fans are kneejerk
 
croadyman said:
Not this narrative again, it's INEOS are three games into a rebuild rather than making out Erik has only been here for a few games
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Nothing wrong with their rebuild and many are still firmly behind them. They are way better than Glazers. But the fact is many think they made a major mistake with keeping ETH and should rectify it asap. The poll results in ETH thread show 82% wants ETH sacked 3 games into new season.
 
golden_blunder said:
At what point do we stop listening to excuses?
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It's blatantly obvious that we have been extremely unlucky.
Serious question, who would do better under these circumstances and would agree (or would have agreed) to join (this summer)?

If I was in senior management I would 100% have kept ETH.
 
PINGUtd said:
It's blatantly obvious that we have been extremely unlucky.
Serious question, who would do better under these circumstances and would agree (or would have agreed) to join (this summer)?

If I was in senior management I would 100% have kept ETH.
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I was asking a question. What’s your breaking point as an advocate?
 
Inflammatory rhetoric
Yakuza_devils said:
But the fact is many think they made a major mistake with keeping ETH and should rectify it asap.
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Nope, it would take a miracle to turn around last season in 3 games - especially when we are without key players (shaw, Hojlund etc) we are integrating new signings and still bringing back players from the euros and copa to full match fitness.
It would be criminal to think of sacking Erik before the end of the year, unless it becomes blatant that we aren’t improving still even with new hierarchy, new back room staff and overhauled squad and we aren’t at that point yet.
 
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Plant0x84 said:
Nope, it would take a miracle to turn around last season in 3 games - especially when we are without key players (shaw, Hojlund etc) we are integrating new signings and still bringing back players from the euros and copa to full match fitness.
It would be criminal to think of sacking Erik before the end of the year, unless it becomes blatant that we aren’t improving still even with new hierarchy, new back room staff and overhauled squad and we aren’t at that point yet.
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Again, at what point we need to stop making excuses and start to do the talking on the pitch?

600mil spent and more than 2 years and you accused fans are impatient? Each to his own I guess.
 
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Plant0x84 said:
Nope, it would take a miracle to turn around last season in 3 games - especially when we are without key players (shaw, Hojlund etc) we are integrating new signings and still bringing back players from the euros and copa to full match fitness.
It would be criminal to think of sacking Erik before the end of the year, unless it becomes blatant that we aren’t improving still even with new hierarchy, new back room staff and overhauled squad and we aren’t at that point yet.
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Sir, I applaud you.

I do understand more now after reading through most of this thread why so many are for Ten Hag to get the sack. What baffled me the most is how the narrative changes when looking back. Last season, there was nothing about Ten Hag and his tactics - the narrative was The Glazers 20 years of neglect has truly caught up on the entire club. Now, the narrative looking back - it's all Ten Hag's fault for style of play but that that was with a severely injured squad. One could argue maybe that has something to do with the coaches and the training etc...

His first season there was nothing but praise but now the narrative there is 3 years of bad football even though it's only 3 games into his third year.

If there is no big improvement in the football and the style of play by the end of this season then it's likely he has to go. What I will say, everything seems to have been set up nicely for the manager so there isn't any excuses.


A good run of games changes peoples opinions anyway.
 
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Given all the comings and goings (management, staff and players) at all levels in recent times, the revolving doors at OT must be spinning continuously. Never has the phrase "don't let the door hit your backside on the way out" be more appropriate.

Change within any major club anywhere has to been given time to take effect, but usually in such situations change is undertaken in small stages, to avoid upsetting the whole club the changes are staggered. The problem seems to be that at times we don't seem to know what our priority objectives should to be, so any changes will be like taking a punt on the lottery.

For example, on the field, do we still envisage a two-man midfield, are our two main strike weapons up front still going to be two inverted-wingers? Given we have employed one of this clubs best ever centre-forwards (RVN) as Asst Manager, does that signal a different approach to leading the line? Given we seem to be getting marginally better at playing out from the back, will that movement be planned to be extend to/or continue over the halfway line, are we going to go for 'pass and move' methods as an alternative to getting us further up the pitch, or just in and around the box? Now McT's gone who is going to be the man coming late into the box?

Off the field, Sir Jim's involvement has seen him appearing to hit the ground running and his recruitment of senior management people looks very impressive. Even the decision to keep ETH, (at least for another year) looks realistic, given the upheaval has only just begun. However how seriously should fans, and sponsors, take this idea of a new-build stadium project becoming the 'Wembley of the North', is it a real objective or just a distraction, to take the spotlight off the team rebuilding that is now perhaps being envisaged to take longer than first (hoped) thought?
 
Opinions can be formed without inflammatory language that is only going to be responded to in kind. Make your points without intentionally setting others off.

Post and subsequent quotes of it have been edited to remove the incendiary remark.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Again, at what point we need to stop making excuses and start to do the talking on the pitch?
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One man’s excuse is anothers mitigation/reason. Using the word excuse implies these things have zero effect on our game, which is clearly not the case.

I suspect we aren’t going to see eye to eye here, so I’ll leave it there before I get myself into further trouble.
Garnacho Libre said:
What I will say, everything seems to have been set up nicely for the manager so there isn't any excuses.
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This I think is key this season. We will finally see what a manager who isn’t sir Alex can do with the correct structure and backing. There is nowhere to hide now, so clearly Erik must prove he is up to the task or face the music.
 
Fortitude said:
Opinions can be formed without inflammatory language that is only going to be responded to in kind. Make your points without intentionally setting others off.

Post and subsequent quotes of it have been edited to remove the incendiary remark.
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Apologies for the part of my post that offended. It wasn’t intentionally inflammatory, or directed at the poster I was replying to.

It was more a general observation, I do think our fan base has a tendency towards impatience more than most- presumably because of the heights we have known - and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of realism or reason employed as to the scale of damage the last 10 years has done to our club or any resolve to see a rebuild through.

Not my intention to cause problems though, so again - I’m sorry.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Apologies for the part of my post that offended. It wasn’t intentionally inflammatory, or directed at the poster I was replying to.

It was more a general observation, I do think our fan base has a tendency towards impatience more than most- presumably because of the heights we have known - and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of realism or reason employed as to the scale of damage the last 10 years has done to our club or any resolve to see a rebuild through.

Not my intention to cause problems though, so again - I’m sorry.
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We're cutting right down on that this season, so what would have been something you could roll off your keyboard last season needs a second read before hitting send this one as we don't want catty back and fourths, which last season was rife with.
 
golden_blunder said:
I was asking a question. What’s your breaking point as an advocate?
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You wrote a single line on a post I spent half an hour to write. But I will summarize in short, our pre-season was far from ideal, so is our injury situation and there were continental tournaments both in Europe and in South America. No other team has nearly been disadvantaged as much so far (Arsenal is an outlier but their problems lay ahead for the NLD which has not been played yet).

You can call it excuses, realistically speaking the situation is really difficult to handle. To answer your question, I am not searching for excuses at all. Let's just not pretend we have the squad depth to ignore it, just see which players sat on our bench during the last few games. Yet, we played excellently well against City and Fulham. I do not see which attainable coach would have done better.
What do you expect from INEOS? To sign Don Carlo, Pep, Klopp, Zidane or Tuchel?

If there was any realistic and promising option, I would name it and advocate for a switch myself.
 
PINGUtd said:
You wrote a single line on a post I spent half an hour to write. But I will summarize in short, our pre-season was far from ideal, so is our injury situation and there were continental tournaments both in Europe and in South America. No other team has nearly been disadvantaged as much so far (Arsenal is an outlier but their problems lay ahead for the NLD which has not been played yet).

You can call it excuses, realistically speaking the situation is really difficult to handle. To answer your question, I am not searching for excuses at all. Let's just not pretend we have the squad depth to ignore it, just see which players sat on our bench during the last few games. Yet, we played excellently well against City and Fulham. I do not see which attainable coach would have done better.
What do you expect from INEOS? To sign Don Carlo, Pep, Klopp, Zidane or Tuchel?

If there was any realistic and promising option, I would name it and advocate for a switch myself.
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You’ve written a lot but not actually answered the question

What’s your breaking point as an advocate?
 
During SAF's reign, we overtook Liverpool and grown to be one of the biggest club in the world. IMO, Liverpool will never recover their position as the best club in England.

Unfortunately, like it or not, Man City will overtake (or already happened) us and will be the best/most successful club in England. They will do to us what we did to Liverpool.

We will be the new Liverpool and I don't think we could recover our position as things stand. Man City is so far ahead and dominant in PL. Unless, the 115 will really lead to some serious punishment but I have my doubts.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
During SAF's reign, we overtook Liverpool and grown to be one of the biggest club in the world. IMO, Liverpool will never recover their position as the best club in England.

Unfortunately, like it or not, Man City will overtake (or already happened) us and will be the best/most successful club in England. They will do to us what we did to Liverpool.

We will be the new Liverpool and I don't think we could recover our position as things stand. Man City is so far ahead and dominant in PL. Unless, the 115 will really lead to some serious punishment but I have my doubts.
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ManCity is only dominant because we have squandered our money, and refused to invest. Once we get over this present blip in our spending capacity, this new structure should see us with a competitive team and with a new stadium and infrastructure in place we will once again be at the helm.

Unfortunately, City will continue to be the de-facto force for the time being, but by the time Pep leaves we should be out of this phase.
 
pcaming said:
ManCity is only dominant because we have squandered our money, and refused to invest. Once we get over this present blip in our spending capacity, this new structure should see us with a competitive team and with a new stadium and infrastructure in place we will once again be at the helm.

Unfortunately, City will continue to be the de-facto force for the time being, but by the time Pep leaves we should be out of this phase.
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I would hope so too but looking at City I think they have built something really special. It will takes a very long time to catch up or overtake them again. We dominated under SAF for more 20 years. Hopefully City will not have such dominance and we need to catch up quickly.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I would hope so too but looking at City I think they have built something really special. It will takes a very long time to catch up or overtake them again. We dominated under SAF for more 20 years. Hopefully City will not have such dominance and we need to catch up quickly.
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All it takes is a bad managerial appointment after Pep and things go pear shaped
 
golden_blunder said:
All it takes is a bad managerial appointment after Pep and things go pear shaped
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Any appointment post Pep, will be a downgrade as he's just levels above everyone else. We have to be ready to take advantage.

City will likely not disappear for a long time, but we can and should be battling them for trophies and not have this farmers league scenario currently taking place.
 
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