Yeah I think from a financial perspective it makes perfect sense but the optics don't look great for those players. The press, fans and other opposition fans will naturally pick out headlines. As one off quotes, without context, it might look like he's throwing them under the bus.
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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His throw away comment about selling Qatar if he wasn’t sure if being successful was interesting. It was tongue in cheek but at the very least it means we probably aren’t stuck with them if they are a long term disaster.
Free lunches will never exist again. He said himself he never had a free lunch in his lifetime.
Don’t think he will just reintroduce that because the club is profitable.
It's just scandalous what the Glazers, Woodward and Co did to this club over the last 10 years. Total incompetence.
Cant say I've got any confidence that it will eventually turn out as good as Jim says but it's a huge job. Fair play for fronting up.
Cant say I've got any confidence that it will eventually turn out as good as Jim says but it's a huge job. Fair play for fronting up.
There are a lot of clips circulating on social media that are really misleading. Particularly one on BBC sport where Ratcliffe mentions some players aren't good enough and some are overpaid, then they cut straight to another segment from the interview where he namechecks Hojlund, Antony, casemiro and Sancho. It's really sly from the BBC.
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A very insightful and honest interview I thought. A few things SJR said made me look at things from a new perspective.
Interesting how based on our current wages paid out we are middle table- clearing out the extortionate salaries of players giving very little on the pitch is definitely priority number one.
Loads of bad press regarding the cuts to lunches, ex players etc. However, these are just the headline cuts. Operational costs have doubled in the last few years and it appears lots of people being employed add very little value. Saving £100 million a season will make a massive difference going forward.
Very refreshing to see an owner come out and be honest. You could tell he didn’t want to call out the Glazers but also could read between the lines what he really feels
Interesting how based on our current wages paid out we are middle table- clearing out the extortionate salaries of players giving very little on the pitch is definitely priority number one.
Loads of bad press regarding the cuts to lunches, ex players etc. However, these are just the headline cuts. Operational costs have doubled in the last few years and it appears lots of people being employed add very little value. Saving £100 million a season will make a massive difference going forward.
Very refreshing to see an owner come out and be honest. You could tell he didn’t want to call out the Glazers but also could read between the lines what he really feels
Definitely a much better way of getting information instead of by way of journos and their anonymous sources.
Thought Gary Neville's grilling was superb and enlightening. The level of ineptitude from Ratcliffe and Co beggars belief. The fact he owns up to a lot - sticking with Ten Hag for one, appointing Ashworth, even the acknowledgement that he is acting as an umbrella for the Glazers - doesn't actually fill me with any confidence.
Nor does his belief that Amorim has done a good job based on nothing.
There doesn't appear to be any recognition that the fans shouldn't pay for past mistakes.
Quite how you justify charging young fans the same as the adults is beyond.
Credit to him for facing the questions but the answers were truly shocking.
Nor does his belief that Amorim has done a good job based on nothing.
There doesn't appear to be any recognition that the fans shouldn't pay for past mistakes.
Quite how you justify charging young fans the same as the adults is beyond.
Credit to him for facing the questions but the answers were truly shocking.
I really don't see the whole free lunch thing as a massive issue in reality. Radcliffe is right, too- not a lot of people get or entitled to a free lunch just because you are an employee. It's a perk if you do.
See. Zero ideas. Because you don't have any insight.
Ratcliffe has said that they club would run out of money by the end of the year if cuts are not made.
No one wants ticket price increases. We have a couple of our highest earners out on loan with a view to a permanent sale. The club likely wont be in Europe next season, so that is 40mil less in income next year. The club have removed 400 people.
The fact that it has come to cutting free lunches at the training ground, shows you how dire the situation is. I mean, do you get a free lunch at your workplace?
Will United succeed because they are feeding, or not feeding, non playing staff at Carrington? No. So if so, cut it.
All but confirms hike in ST prices, now a case of how much.
Nothing too surprising in there but refreshing to hear Ratcliffe front up and talked a lot of sense. The biggest disagreement for me was his positivity about our performances and trajectory under Amorim but he’s hardly going to say anything negative publicly.
I’m excited to see the plans for the stadium after hearing that. I didn’t realise designs were as far advanced as they are.
I’m excited to see the plans for the stadium after hearing that. I didn’t realise designs were as far advanced as they are.
I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced by his knowledge about what's happening on the pitch, but it is good that he is communicating.
Thought it was very jarring to hear that without cuts and Sir Jim's investment United go bust at Christmas.
Sums up what we knew all along at how badly United have been run the last 10 years. When he mentions Casemiro, Hojlund etc I think he was more getting at the amount of money spent and how the deals were structured by the negotiating team then and the fact we're splashing out £89m this summer even if we sign no one.
Its all well and good saying the staff shouldn't be cut because X players earns this much. You can't just tear a players contact up have to pay them off which obviously costs millions, just like when a club sacks a manager. Its much easier to make staff redundant even if we had a very bloated workforce compared to our rivals.
He obviously has to be very diplomatic about the Glazers due to the non-disparagement clause in their agreement.
Credit to SJR for doing the interviews and I don't think Neville went too easy on him either. As shocking as some of it was it was good to hear it from him rather an 'anonymous sources'
I'd advise people to actually watch/listen to the interviews going round instead of reading bits and pieces or watching soundbites which are so easily manipulated to suit a narrative.
Sums up what we knew all along at how badly United have been run the last 10 years. When he mentions Casemiro, Hojlund etc I think he was more getting at the amount of money spent and how the deals were structured by the negotiating team then and the fact we're splashing out £89m this summer even if we sign no one.
Its all well and good saying the staff shouldn't be cut because X players earns this much. You can't just tear a players contact up have to pay them off which obviously costs millions, just like when a club sacks a manager. Its much easier to make staff redundant even if we had a very bloated workforce compared to our rivals.
He obviously has to be very diplomatic about the Glazers due to the non-disparagement clause in their agreement.
Credit to SJR for doing the interviews and I don't think Neville went too easy on him either. As shocking as some of it was it was good to hear it from him rather an 'anonymous sources'
I'd advise people to actually watch/listen to the interviews going round instead of reading bits and pieces or watching soundbites which are so easily manipulated to suit a narrative.
I see.
So, what is the plan for the debt then? It doesn't seem to be decreasing. Does it just keep getting bigger until our awful owners agree to a full sale?
Just the two of us, we can make it if we try, just the two of us, building castle in the sky just the two of us, you and I!!
Where is the ineptitude exactly ? Most fans wanted to keep ETH. Were you one?
He refused to slag off the Glazers, yes, but what do you expect? "Oh yeah, Gary, you're right. These Yanks have put us up shits creek".
Fans are not paying for past mistakes. They are paying because the cost of everything in the world is going up.
Because I dont remember a ticket price freeze between 1990 and 2013 when we were winning things?
Sly from the BBC? Give over!!!
I realise that it's never nice to see jobs go but has anyone seen the comments made by Jim Ratcliffe about how we were paying a 'body language consultant' £180k a year?????
Seems that way. I doubt any minority investor is going to clear the debt on the glazers behalf
How on earth have you drawn that conclusion?!
Fair play to him for fronting up, he doesn't have to.I suppose I depends on what side of the argument your on as to whether you thought it was a good interview.
From my point of view I thought it was good, Neville did ask some tough questions, Ratcliffe looked and sounded really uncomfortable at times but held his hands up to the very costly mistakes of EtH and Ashworth.
I can't imagine where we'd be now if the Glazers were still running the whole show a whole lot worse I'd say and there is no way he's doing all this and coping the flak to walk away he wants the whole club eventually.
From my point of view I thought it was good, Neville did ask some tough questions, Ratcliffe looked and sounded really uncomfortable at times but held his hands up to the very costly mistakes of EtH and Ashworth.
I can't imagine where we'd be now if the Glazers were still running the whole show a whole lot worse I'd say and there is no way he's doing all this and coping the flak to walk away he wants the whole club eventually.
No they wouldn’t. They wanted to be bailed out, not bought out.
The only other ‘bidder’ in the sale process never made a legally acceptable offer. There was literally only the one serious offer on the table.
Count me in!!Just the two of us, we can make it if we try, just the two of us, building castle in the sky just the two of us, you and I!!
Good man yourself!
Great to have Jim doing interviews after the big protest yesterday and not hiding away. Should automatically make him more likeable than the Americans.
Respect for fronting up on his mistakes and on the ticket pricing too.
The way he and Gary talk about the stadium proposal too is very exciting. Can’t wait to see it.
Respect for fronting up on his mistakes and on the ticket pricing too.
The way he and Gary talk about the stadium proposal too is very exciting. Can’t wait to see it.
Jim went out of his way not to say too much about the Glazers and how them plus their idiots business men friends such as Woodward have run the club to ground. Is he contracted to keep muted and talk around it?
Trying to explain the 66 pound hike on match tickets made no sense. They weren't face value prices matter of fact I was to buy a ticket at 40 pound before jumped up to that price over night.
Trying to explain the 66 pound hike on match tickets made no sense. They weren't face value prices matter of fact I was to buy a ticket at 40 pound before jumped up to that price over night.
Speaking always helps.
Even if you don’t agree with what he says.
I’m just glad G.Nev shut up to allow him to answer.
*Also it makes me laugh how many managers Gary sacked at Salford over the years. Plus he still seem dumbfounded at the cost cutting as if it’s such an alien concept in business.
Even if you don’t agree with what he says.
I’m just glad G.Nev shut up to allow him to answer.
*Also it makes me laugh how many managers Gary sacked at Salford over the years. Plus he still seem dumbfounded at the cost cutting as if it’s such an alien concept in business.
He is their minority business partner. It wouldn’t be too smart to piss them off and risk jeopardising his investment and future involvement with the club would it?
Given how miserable some of our players can look, they definitely weren’t earning that £180kI realise that it's never nice to see jobs go but has anyone seen the comments made by Jim Ratcliffe about how we were paying a 'body language consultant' £180k a year?????
Edit: This post needs to be edited because I didn't see there was a longer interview, and I don't want to spend more time doing it.
That's a very insightful interview. Gary Neville couldn't ask some key questions for obvious reasons - tougher questions would not have been cleared before the interview, and the interview would not have probably been aired if Neville had deviated real-time (besides the fact that it would be career suicide at Sky). But SJR's answers to the questions he did ask were insightful nonetheless.
1) SJR and co are far more sensitive to press coverage and fan protests than the Glazers were. This does not necessarily mean that they act on it, or change course because of it (the gutting of personnel at the club as clear evidence) but the timing of the interview, the mention of the 'daily report card', and the fact that Gary Neville was allowed to bring up the fan protests indicate that upper management is feeling the heat - at the very least, they're not as apathetic to the state of affairs as the Glazers were, whose only means of appeasing/acknowledging discontent was to throw more money at misguided transfers (while plunging the club deeper into debt). Protests will be heard, boos at the stadium will be heard, and while it may not lead to immediate change, it leaves an impression as opposed to screaming into the void.
2) We don't know his assessment of the Glazers. When Gary asks him if he understood why the fans were unhappy, SJR mentioned only the results. He avoided mentioning the club's financial state, or his own brutal firing of club staff, or the debt, or the financial state of needing to sell to buy. Neville clearly didn't push back, but this is telling. There is no way he didn't see the 'Glazers Out' banner or social media hashtags for someone who is so attuned to the state of the club - so you wonder why he wouldn't even acknowledge the criticism of the Glazers. Is it simpy because it is unwise to antagonize a business relationship if you can avoid it, or - the more sinister possibility - is it because he sympathizes with the Glazers and believes this is necessary collateral in business decisions that non-billionaire fans would never understand? In other words, is he just like the Glazers himself with only the added caveat of caring about footballing structure? He claims to be a fan, but is he one of us, or is he one of them? If you can't tell, you know the answer.
3) He provides no reasoning for the 'tough' calls. "If you didn't like how United have been since Sir Alex retired, you have to accept there has to be a period of change otherwise things will continue to be the same - and change is uncomfortable." He doesn't offer much to defend why his course of change is the 'right' one - why was it necessary to fire the staff you did? Why was it necessary to consider selling youth talents to raise funds? Why is it necessary to stop the meals at Carrington? Why did Amorim have to come in at such a tough moment? Why was Ashworth let go? Why was he given no loanee support during this window when the top earners as you put it were sent out or unavailable? Perhaps too much to include in such a small interview, but you wonder if he's just another deluded billionaire who is blindly backing difficult decisions (DOGE-decision making, like someone mentioned in this thread) or if he is actually taking the effort to make sure he's making the right footballing calls.
4) SJR seems attuned to the footballing side of things - with two concerning caveats (next point). The way he talked about the difficulty of assessing ETH's performances as a function of the manager vs a function of the club's footballing structure is encouraging. The way he contextualizes Amorim's challenges in terms of basic footballing concepts like injuries, squad composition, mid-season adaptability in the PL, bedding-in-time for his new signings (the Zirkzee example was illuminating) is an improvement over his predecessors. Of course he has to back his man right now, so the support itself was unsurprising - I'm only saying that the reasons were heartening. All of this would have been very promising if not for:
4a) Caveat 1: "Erik had a voice, which is why there were one or two Dutch players." What the feck? How on earth do you talk about all the right things so far, and then revert back to 'we signed Dutch players because of the Dutch manager'? Why is that a qualifier? How does that make players manager-agnostic? What does that say about your 'footballing structure' and its relationship with the scouting system? How are you any different from your predecessor? Does this mean we're signing Quenda because of the manager and not because he's a good fit? Will we have to get rid of 'Amorim's signings' if we change managers? This was alarming.
4b) Caveat 2: He is wrong about the 'available players' salary bill' math.
This already reduces Rashford/Antony wages to the loan-adjusted amount, and we're still 3rd in the list.
Removing the wages for the loaned out / generally unavailable players (Mount, Sancho, Shaw, Rashford) entirely still puts us at 135M/annum - which is 5th above Liverpool.
Let's say we also remove available but no longer first XI players as well (Casemiro, Lindelof, Evans) - we're still at 8th highest with 108.3M/annum.
If we also remove the long term injuries in the squad right now (Licha, Amad) - we're still at 9th highest with over 96M/annum.
So this talk of available players' wages to defend the manager is bullshit - I hope these fine margins are not lost on a man who is not above firing the tea lady to save a couple of bucks. At best, he is generalizing for the sake of it, at worst he is unaware.
5) SJR provides non-answers for the ETH fiasco. He claims they had very little time to make a call given how people were just coming in. That's a lie and a half-answer - you had time even before the season ended, and time till the next season began, and you talked to other managers as well. You caused this delay in the first place - no mention of the delay to get Ashworth and no mention of what his input was or why he was so expensively let go. There was enough time, and by your own admission you got it wrong - why? Why wouldn't you provide a clean answer?
There's half an hour of my life I won't get back, I don't know why I keep doing this to myself.
Fecking ridiculous. Absolutely disgusting that this method of 'purchase' was even allowed in the first place.
When have the Glazers Ever put themselves up for interview or scrutiny? The court of public opinion means nothing to them.
Fair play to Nev on asking some tough questions on what Ineos have done and what the Glazers have done historically
He comes across as a nice guy but
1) He is clueless about football.
2) He is old school. He doesn't get how modern life works.
3) He thinks he can run United like a Greggs or any normal business. You can't. No club has ever been successful by not spending money.
1) He is clueless about football.
2) He is old school. He doesn't get how modern life works.
3) He thinks he can run United like a Greggs or any normal business. You can't. No club has ever been successful by not spending money.
He kind of admitted he didnt realise how bad the club finances were until he was in the thick of it
I don't think he's ever came across like a nice guy.
Great post overall, but that part I found the most baffling. Not only he confirms our structure is even less professional and more short-sighted than we thought, but also manages to make himself look or powerless or clueless. And as you say - how the feck should Amorim, scouts and the whole current structure should react to such comments by the owner.
He does?
The original purchase debt from the leveraged buyout matures in 2027. I suspect there will be a debt for equity swap at some point, and Sir Jim will gain further control of the club. Otherwise it will have to be refinanced and the interest rate is a lot higher now than it was when the current debt was arranged!
I think the stadium project will be used to drive his stake in the club up too btw.