Club ownership | Senior management team talk

paulscholes18 said:
A good chance we would be facing a points deduction with the PSR loses/ overspending.
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This is so embarrassing. They would be doing exactly what INEOS are doing, but there would be outrage with the club lower half of the league, cutting 500 jobs, and doing everything else INEOS have done.

By getting Ratcliffe / INEOS to be part proxy of their proxy restructure and the face of everything that is happening they get no backlash, no protests, sponsors are happy, and Ratcliffe gets praised by people who are easily fooled.
 
HTG said:
The Green Bay Packers are one of the most successful teams in US-sports and function exactly the way you don’t want to.
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Fair observation but they've basically always been fan-owned and in reality are a small town team with a mostly local fanbase, they're pretty unique in many ways on the US sports scene, if they were in a large city I doubt it would work
 
Red in STL said:
Fair observation but they've basically always been fan-owned and in reality are a small town team with a mostly local fanbase, they're pretty unique in many ways on the US sports scene, if they were in a large city I doubt it would work
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They wear cheese on their heads for a start.
 
Lebowski said:
It's difficult to respond since you disprove your own argument in the same post and what you are arguing doesn't really make sense to me.

You asked for owners who sold a club for more than they bought it for. I provided examples. You provided context to each example to try and explain them as if that somehow makes them not true.

Then you say that you can't make profit on a club as big as Man Utd despite the earlier examples including Liverpool and Chelsea, and also the fact that more or less every big club in Europe has increased in value over the past decade.

You bring up profit margin and claim that big clubs have lower profit margins (says who?) and that means 'it's deluded to think you will make a profit on an expensive club'. But straight after you mention Arsenal, a 'big club' that was bought for £1b which is now worth more than double.

You keep claiming that Ratcliffe is a unique billionaire who doesn't care about making money and that Man Utd won't make money anyway. Your argument seems to be that we shouldn't criticise Ratcliffe or Ineos because they were duped into buying an expensive club and they clearly won't be able to make a profit out of it, so we should instead sympathise with them and conclude that everything they do, they are doing because they love the club and want to win trophies?
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Very good. I think the argument is (or maybe will become) that he wasn't duped- he paid over the odds because profit isn't the goal, he just loves the club. And it needs saving.
I mean it would be a worry that someone with his experience in business acquisitions could be so easily duped.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
They wear cheese on their heads for a start.
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I know, I have actually been to Green Bay, looked quite nice but way too cold to actually consider living there!

Having an NFL team I assumed it was a large city, but when I visited about 25 years ago I saw the sign on entering the city saying the population was just under 100K which was a big surprise to me
 
romufc said:
You are again emphasising my point, you buy a club that has potential to grow, not a club that is at its highest value.

It's like saying... I bought Bitcoin for $1 and I made $100k but not sold it... well you haven't made the money then have you?

Or if someone buys it for $1 and sells for $100,000, is not the same as buying it at $100,000 dollars is it?

If you want to make big profits, you dont go buy the most expensive club. You dont put in 5bn expecting to make 25bn.. its not going to happen.
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This is my 2c about the whole ordeal

Manchester United are owned by a partnership, which, even at secondary school level, is taught to be the worst ship to ever sail at sea. The reason being that partnerships require cooperation which in turn makes decision making a bit of a challenge especially if one owner wants to commit in a project while the other does not. To make matters worse United are not experiencing the best of times. The infrastructure is a mess, we're losing money, we have huge debt and the squad is shit. At least one of the owners is not ready to put his hands in his pockets either through direct funding or through selling more equity. Looking from the outside that looks like the stuff of nightmares as people are getting sacked, our results are tanking and the fans are growing impatient.

But here's the thing. SJR is not an idiot. His track record in business particularly the 'struggling' ones is well renowned if not legendary. But that's not all. There were hedge funds interested as well including the Elliott Management Group. As many would tell you, hedge funds never lose. Elliott themselves are a prime example to that. They took AC Milan who were a literal shambles (they defaulted) and despite having no experience in football (or bicycle men to help) Elliott group managed to build a winning team capable of winning a Serie A title after 3 years of management (only to sell in the fourth year). SJR with all his sports and football experts has yet to take a club to a CL qualification let alone a league title.

So somehow somewhere there's a way of making huge profits out of United and that won't take 20 years to achieve. That's known by the Glazers who refuse to sell more equity, its known by SJR whose hardly a spring chicken himself and he won't be waiting a decade to get some serious profit out of his investment and it's known by Elliott group, MSD Partners and Oaktree Capital, all of whom aren't particularly known to be patient owners of clubs.
 
Redfrog said:
Pour guy… But wait, he is know being a greedy scumbag who won’t even pay his taxes in his own country.

In first place I would not buy the club being a minority owner and letting people who destroyed it at the helm.

But I probably love the club more then Radcliff who is driven by profit and not love.
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I’m not saying he’s a poor guy but what I am saying is that it’s the Glazers who have created this mess and it’s not easy to sort. The club is in debt and skint.
 
Steve 007 said:
I’m not saying he’s a poor guy but what I am saying is that it’s the Glazers who have created this mess and it’s not easy to sort. The club is in debt and skint.
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I am not denying it but Ineos are amateurs so far. They made stupid decisions since they are here. Maybe if they were competent on the footballing side it would be another story.
 
Plant0x84 said:
He paid taxes in this country for 60+ years, and nobody will believe you if you claim you wouldn’t do exactly as he has to save yourself £4m per year.
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No I won’t but I will never be a millionaire as I am not driven by money. And you know, some of them don’t try to evade taxes and even want to pay more.
But doesn’t surprise me you are defending taxe evaders who are a cancer to our societies. I am sure you think people who can’t eat deserve it anyway and should not be helped. I am proud to be different to you.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Was it? You shock me!! :rolleyes:

Point being 15th isn’t a mile away from 14th, it’s hardly ‘much worse’.
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And we were 14th because Ineos decided to keep Erik which is exactly the point I was making. So thank you for underlining that mistake made by Ineos.
 
Red in STL said:
And fan ownership would do exactly that, ruin any club of a decent size never mind United, the forums here are proof that you could never get anyone to agree on anything
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There are big clubs owned by fans. Do you really think they get to vote on everything?
It's the age old monarchy vs democracy argument.
There just aren't any good men in the position to buy our club and run it for the fans benefit.
 
Redfrog said:
No I won’t but I will never be a millionaire as I am not driven by money. And you know, some of them don’t try to evade taxes and even want to pay more.
But doesn’t surprise me you are defending taxe evaders who are a cancer to our societies. I am sure you think people who can’t eat deserve it anyway and should not be helped. I am proud to be different to you.
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Wrong tosspot, my family is in receipt of UC and PIP actually - thanks for the high and mighty misplaced assumptions though. On ignore you go.
 
I really thought INEOs was going to be a positive. But they are running this club into the ground. It almost feels like a sabotage. How can they get so much wrong in such a short amount of time.
 
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This summer old Jimmy will have to show how serious he is with this club. Boy oh boy it won't be cheap fixing this mess
 
Watch us hire Southgate with like 3 games remaining in the season, complete the Ashworth circle.
 
The-Mezzala said:
I really thought INEOs was going to be a positive. But they are running this club into the ground. It almost feels like a sabotage. How can they get so much wrong in such a short amount of time.
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How are they running the club into the ground?
The club was entering into a financial nose dive before they arrived.

Even though Ineos formerly acquired their initial shareholding a year ago, it wasn't until the summer that the new Utd executive and management team were put in place and started work on trying restructure the organisation.
That will all take time to work through.
Apart from the $1.2 billion they forked out to acquire their shares, they've pumped in nearly a quarter of a billion £££'s to hep with the training ground and to cover other stuff, because Utd didn't have any funds available.
Is that running the club into the ground?
Where's your couple of billion£££ to help out?

The cost cutting and reducing staff head count isn't running the club down, it's a lifeline attempt.
We are fecked otherwise.
Big ticket items like unwanted players on stupidly obscene wages, will be offloaded as soon as it can be achieved, but that is no easy task and will take time.

Sadly, we might have to sell some young talent to generate enough funds to bring in new players.
Hopefully not, but the alternative might mean keeping most of the current squad and limiting recruitment.

There are no sugar daddies or fairy godmothers waiting in the wings to sail in, take the club off the glazers, pay off the debt and dump billions into the club, out of the kindness of their hearts.
Even if there were, it wouldn't guarantee footballing success and trophies.


.
 
The-Mezzala said:
I really thought INEOs was going to be a positive. But they are running this club into the ground. It almost feels like a sabotage. How can they get so much wrong in such a short amount of time.
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Yep. Renovated training ground, plans for new stadium, exciting young coaching team appointed, resolving the club financial issues - just like sabotage! :rolleyes:
 
romufc said:
Dont worry, in some people's minds... the reason for the financial mess is because we sacked Ten Hag and Ashworth. That is the reason we are losing 100m a year, its got nothing to do with previous regime and past failures.
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You keep repeating this, but you know it's not true.

Everyone I've seen acknowledges the Glazers have been bad (and still are) but Jimbo/Ineos don't help themselves by pissing millions up the wall on Ten Hag and Ashworth but taking away from the 'normal' employees. How does that look?

If Jimbo couldn't buy United outright he should have stayed away, jhe's just enebled the rats to stay and done nothing about the debt, which is the main problem we have at this moment, along with stupid signings under the rats.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Nope, relish isn’t allowed anymore - only soup and sandwiches. :rolleyes:

I don’t understand why some of you take these job cuts so personally? It isnt you that is being sacked - and these are redundancies by the way so the staff will be compensated accordingly. It’s a shitty situation for sure, but it’s not one of INEOS making - they are just taking the flack for sorting it out.
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:lol:
 
Plant0x84 said:
Ok, so Rashford is out at Villa who are covering a large proportion of his wages.

Casemiro is reluctant to leave for lower wages which is understandable (if not popular) nobody wants to be paid less. Can you explain how we break his contract and drop his wages without getting sued out of existence? Especially when the window is closed. You asssume the club ISNT trying to move out overpaid and under performing players?

The focus is on sporting achievement. Costs must be cut across the club, and we are in a sell to buy situation. Maybe you are happy to continue being mediocre on the pitch so the poor unloved masses can have their free lunch?
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Yeah, we can buy so many players with that saving of about £1m. Who do you think we should get?
 
Strangest Tribe said:
Nope, the reason I wanted them had absolutely nothing to do with “trinkets” and everything to do with getting rid of the Glazers permanently so stop peddling baseless lies
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You're not the only one.

We needed someone to get rid of the rats and pay off the debt and refurbish/build a new stadium. I would have been happy with that and letting the club finance itself withut all the debt hindrance.
 
U-N-I-T-E-D said:
I don't get the 'greedy' view people have.

Unlike the Glazers they're not taking any money out of the club. They want the club to be financially stable to be able to improve the infrastructure and the team.

I don't agree with some of the cost cutting measures but it's pretty much tough. He's inherited an absolute shit show financially and structurally and he's trying to get it back to a place where we're not screwed.

Was it greedy of him to put in £250m of his own money? Greedy to finally upgrade Carrington? Install and actual footballing structure above the manager (albeit with teething problems)?

It's nonsense. He's doing all he can to get money back into the club. Some things have been smart like saving wages on Rashford, Sancho and Antony, inserting decent buy back options or sell ons in the players we've sold, cutting (possibly too much - remains to be seen) an overly bloated staff that will save £30m (or a Dorgu) per season. He's also made some shit decisions, like cancelling charity payments etc.

I think we're in for a rough couple of years of correcting the course of the club before it gets better but I think it unfortunately needs doing.
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He would have been better paying off some of the cebt with that, it would have helped the club enormously.
 
pocco said:
Well said.

These people calling him greedy have their heads so far up their own backside, it's almost coming back out of their mouth.

He will probably never in his lifetime see a return on the money already invested. That money is gone. There's a few things to criticise him for, but being greedy? The lack of critical thinking around this subject is crazy.
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Oh poor him. That's like pocket change to him, he can easily afford it.
 
Anyone noticed that Amorim now wearing the club attire/coat during matches.
 
romufc said:
Short term bias at it again. They have nothing to show ? Really?

I can remember almost everyone on here 3/4 years ago talking about how we need a modern structure at this football club. They have put a football structure or at least trying to.. but you ofcourse wont see that, doesn't suit your agenda.

We as fans also said, we need to stop overpaying and stop buying mercenaries, we had a better transfer policy.

We said.. we need to improve infrastructure... what has happened? We investing in Carrington and looking at a new stadium.

But ofcourse they sacked a manager so it means they have done nothing.
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Yet we still have the CEO making football decsions, i.e., Amorim.

So nothing's changed.
 
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