Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[Ayush_reddevil]

Look, I was all for this club being run more efficienitly, but we are doing things that are creating a very toxic environment and doesn't even come close to solving United's problems on the pitch.

What does saving £1m a year on staff lunch solve in the long run?

In the end we are loss making business and we need to save money. I understand the morale argument but I am not sure it's as big a thing as you make it seem like. All of us want United to be a community based club but the fact is that football clubs stopped being that ages ago. It's a business in the end and any loss making business needs to make changes top to bottom to improve their finances.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

They dont get that, fans who see cuts can only see ETH and Ashworth as a reason why these cuts are happening, ignoring the 100m losses we suffering yearly.

Speak for yourself, I've been very vocal about our tight finances so stop it with these reductive straw men.

 

[romufc]

These footballers haven't done such a good job of doing their basic job description have they? The fact is, the average worker is losing their only source of income due to these underperforming, overpaid bunch. All I suggested was that they could take a minimal pay cut which would save literally hundreds of jobs, i apologise for being so heartless to these overpaid, underperforming, lazy entitled millionaires, some of whom think it's funny to poke fun at single mothers. These players haven't done the job they're grossly overpaid for, for over a decade, any other worker would have been fired for far less.

Agreed, the players are overpaid and have been poor for a good part of a decade. what you are saying is all good in theory, but unfortunately that's not how the world works.

Would you accept a pay cut for the money to go to lower income people? Its the harsh reality unfortunately, when the club has been mismanagement for a decade plus, harsh decisions are going to be made.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It doesnt benefit the Club and its supporters to Get control over our insane expenses before it goes tits up?

I have absolutely no idea if this action benefits the club. The mooted savings don't even make a dent in our main financial issue. I also have no idea how crucial these 450 people were to the club operationally. What I said is however an absolute fact.

 

[MiracleInMadrid]

These players better start showing week in week out why they aren’t affected by the cuts.

In the perfect world this would light a fire under them

 

[NotChatGPT]

Yeah but it’s a sham isn’t it

The debts dwarfing all these small savings, the Glazers taking money out over the years I could go on there’s one reason this is all happening

Its not really a sham, fact is that a lot needs to change. The glazers being absolute cnuts doesnt really change that. Everything has to be trimmed down to the bones

 

[Rolaholic]

I'm growing to hate my club, not great.

Something that gets overlooked because of the redundancies is just how much financially worse off they’re also making the lives of those who have and still work for them

 

[Frosty]

It doesnt benefit the Club and its supporters to Get control over our insane expenses before it goes tits up?

I think it has probably already gone tits up given the measures taken.

But there is still something galling as a business cuts free lunches for people on 20k a year whilst free lunches continue for the millionaires.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

These footballers haven't done such a good job of doing their basic job description have they? The fact is, the average worker is losing their only source of income due to these underperforming, overpaid bunch. All I suggested was that they could take a minimal pay cut which would save literally hundreds of jobs, i apologise for being so heartless to these overpaid, underperforming, lazy entitled millionaires, some of whom think it's funny to poke fun at single mothers. These players haven't done the job they're grossly overpaid for, for over a decade, any other worker would have been fired for far less.

Well that's just never going to happen. I am sure a lot of the player contracts are incentives based so in their eyes that stuff is already factored in to these.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Do you think the players feel this? While sweeping up 000s every week and the rest? Or ya reckon they couldnt give a shite aslong as they get paid?

Genuine question.

 

[romufc]

Speak for yourself, I've been very vocal about our tight finances so stop it with these reductive straw men.

No.. you have been the loudest about Ten Hag and Ashworth.. what are you on about? All your posts are about Ten Hag, coaching staff and Ashworth.

I'm not talking about the Ten Hag decision in isolation.

His contract would have been shorter and we wouldn't have had to pay severance to his assistants who hadn't been hired at the time.

Ok, even if we were to concede all that, you're still ignoring the Ashworth decision and the assistants who were hired and fired this season.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I think SJR is making alot of mistakes and deserves a lot of criticism. But people need to not confuse what he’s doing as some sort of worse thing then how glazers ran things.

Glazers ran the club into the ground. Glazers never put a penny into the club , maybe SJR is cost cutting as much because he’s already put in more then they have and he’s also stopped them continuing to take out dividends.

Glazers didn’t care about on field struggles once they were making money. Many ambassador roles and money they threw at things (that club paid for) was to offer them some sort of protection. SAF was their biggest ambassador and they paid handsomely for his support.

I still don’t understand why SJR agreed to pay over a billion to be Glazers fall guy but I guess he wanted a challange.

But fans need to not forget why the club is in peril. As angry as you want to be at SJR or INEOs, we are where we are cause of glazers. I know many wanted a quick fix billionaire slush fund but in absence of that , this is as good as we could have hoped for. There clearly wasn’t a credible alternative offer as the glazers like money and could of been bought if the Quatar lad some of you want was actually a serious bidder.

 

[Roboc7]

They dont get that, fans who see cuts can only see ETH and Ashworth as a reason why these cuts are happening, ignoring the 100m losses we suffering yearly.

And all football Premier League clubs use workers on zero hour contracts, minimum wage etc whilst paying their players hundred of thousands a week, pissing away transfer fees on flops, sacking managers for millions etc.

At Utd this is now being aired in public and amongst the backdrop of so much other negativity. Liverpool use zero hour contracts and spent 80m or whatever is was on Darwin Nunez their fans don’t give a shit about that now but in our circumstances they be screaming about it.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

But the bad football decisions made in the last 12 months don’t cause all these cuts. If they keep running the club how it has been run, keep making bad decisions then the whole thing is pointless.

These cuts do not stem from Ashworth and ETH, if they were both still here these cuts would still be made. We used to budget for being in the quarter final of the Champions League and now we have to budget for not even being in Europe.

Unfortunately the people being punished by these cuts are not responsible but that’s the same for all of us.

I get that. My entire point wasn't "Ashworth and ETH caused these cuts". It was "INEOS need to start getting the big decisions right because those move the needle more than these cuts".

Will that start happening now? Maybe. I'm skeptical based on what I've seen so far though. Cutting scouts and recruitment staff, for instance, strikes me as penny wise and pound foolish when we're trying to become smarter in the transfer market and improve our ability to identify undervalued players.

 

[Acquire Me]

Yep. They are papering over the cracks.

The whole thing is more fecked than I thought reading that statement. A big ticket increase is coming next.

They are actually doing the opposite. They are going to make a lot of hard cuts to make the club lean and profitable again. It’s not going to be a happy place for a long time.

 

[Frosty]

Do you think the players feel this? While sweeping up 000s every week and the rest? Or ya reckon they couldnt give a shite aslong as they get paid?

Genuine question.

Bruno does. I doubt he would have offered to pay for the travel and so on for staff if he didn't.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

No.. you have been the loudest about Ten Hag and Ashworth.. what are you on about? All your posts are about Ten Hag, coaching staff and Ashworth.

YOU brought up ETH and Ashworth so I felt the need to address those points specifically. fecking hell, I get more sense out of my 18 month old.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Bruno does. I doubt he would have offered to pay for the travel and so on for staff if he didn't.

Ahhh Bruno, one of the only players you feel genuinely loves the club and gets what it means to play for us!

 

[oreon]

In the end we are loss making business and we need to save money. I understand the morale argument but I am not sure it's as big a thing as you make it seem like. All of us want United to be a community based club but the fact is that football clubs stopped being that ages ago. It's a business in the end and any loss making business needs to make changes top to bottom to improve their finances.

United are immediately profitable if you take away the interest payments to Glazer debt. That's the biggest thing that will improve the club financial standing. The Glazers selling and taking their debt with them.

The next thing that would improve is a proper wage structure. INEOS were suppose to fix that, yet De ligt is making 195 grand and he's nowhere near worth that money. This is a player they recently signed. And the transfer wages, INEOS haven't spent wisely. De ligt, Ugarte, Zirkzee, Yoro all recent signings havent been worth the money they spent.

Cutting lunch benefits and regular staff isn't the way to go. Glazers selling and having proper wage structure and spending wisely in the transfer market are what need to be done

 

[romufc]

And all football Premier League clubs use workers on zero hour contracts, minimum wage etc whilst paying their players hundred of thousands a week, pissing away transfer fees on flops, sacking managers for millions etc.

At Utd this is now being aired in public and amongst the backdrop of so much other negativity. Liverpool use zero hour contracts and spent 80m or whatever is was on Darwin Nunez their fans don’t give a shit about that now but in our circumstances they be screaming about it.

Exactly, its big news that staff are losing their job. If I worked at a place and the company was making huge losses year in year out, no one's job is safe, that's the harsh reality of life.

Its funny fans were so quick to laugh at our 1 out of 5 food hygeine rating but when those staff are sacked, its not good, they should not be sacked.

Look at the level of incompetence that runs throughout this football club. Before INEOS, majority of the fans here were screaming... changes need to happen from top to bottom, now changes are happening, no one can take it.

 

[Matt851]

Does anyone think Ratcliff might be playing a bit of a blinder here. Constantly advertising all these extra small savings is really going to put into a selling club’s head that they can’t hold Utd to ransom and ask for a silly fee like the Anthony, Mount etc ones?

Yea but the amount he spent on zirkzee and de ligt probably has the opposite effect

 

[Pexbo]

Starting to look more and more like a vulture capitalist.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

And all football Premier League clubs use workers on zero hour contracts, minimum wage etc whilst paying their players hundred of thousands a week, pissing away transfer fees on flops, sacking managers for millions etc.

At Utd this is now being aired in public and amongst the backdrop of so much other negativity. Liverpool use zero hour contracts and spent 80m or whatever is was on Darwin Nunez their fans don’t give a shit about that now but in our circumstances they be screaming about it.

Good point about everything currently being made into big news for clicks. We also don't have any clear idea on the number of people employed at all the clubs . I don't think that they have would have gotten rid of 350-400 people if it was going to massively impact the day to day running of the club.

 

[Castia]

Its not really a sham, fact is that a lot needs to change. The glazers being absolute cnuts doesnt really change that. Everything has to be trimmed down to the bones

Yeah trimmed cause we’re 700m and change in debt. There’s not an excuse in the world that will make closing the staff canteen logical for an organisation like United it’s ridiculous

SAF is on record stating the canteen is so important to the club. The workers being inspired eating with stars and a sense of humility for the players eating with the working class it’s supposed to bring everyone together

Now we have staff members getting axed, first team players publicly trying to be sold (Garnacho) it’s a mess, it must be untenable behind the scenes

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Starting to look more and more like a vulture capitalist.

I think there’s a chance some of this strategy is intentionally optics. I’d say he’s negotiating hard with Manchester council for as much funding for the old Trafford regeneration and this sort of “United in financial peril” narrative helps.

 

[Remember the geese]

There are certain things I agree with and it seems like he wants to cut it all down to build it back up. But some decisions are so draconian and will evidently make the club a terrible place to work. Cutting employee lunches is a crazy move for a business our size. Of all the decisions this is an odd one to state ‘I like what he’s doing’.

Reputable journos are saying that it’s becoming a pretty toxic place to work and that mood is not sustainable.

Why should staff be entitled to free lunches? Do you get a free lunch from the canteen at work? I certainly don't, nor would I expect to.

 

[acnumber9]

I wonder how many children INEOS would have to sacrifice before romufc would countenance the idea that INEOS have done something wrong? Maybe 50.

 

[Remember the geese]

Yeah, the canteen will do it :/

It will, yes. Just like every other measure that Jim is attending to.

 

[romufc]

YOU brought up ETH and Ashworth so I felt the need to address those points specifically. fecking hell, I get more sense out of my 18 month old.

just to SHOW YOU, that you need to read better.

If you save £10 x 100 times, its a big saving. That is what they are doing, cutting costs in several areas for a bigger saving.

This was my post to someone ELSE, which YOU replied to with this.

And then making boneheaded football decisions that cost orders of magnitude more than the amount saved.

What footballing decisions you talking about? I asked is it Ten Hag?

I'm not talking about the Ten Hag decision in isolation.

Then I asked is it Ashworth? I put a question mark, go check what a question mark means.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

United are immediately profitable if you take away the interest payments to Glazer debt. That's the biggest thing that will improve the club financial standing. The Glazers selling and taking their debt with them.

The next thing that would improve is a proper wage structure. INEOS were suppose to fix that, yet De ligt is making 195 grand and he's nowhere near worth that money. This is a player they recently signed. And the transfer wages, INEOS haven't spent wisely. De ligt, Ugarte, Zirkzee, Yoro all recent signings havent been worth the money they spent.

Cutting lunch benefits and regular staff isn't the way to go. Glazers selling and having proper wage structure and spending wisely in the transfer market are what need to be done

I think the thing with the transfers is that it's a bit of hindsight really. I don't think that the transfers we made in the summer were massive overpays at the time. You can question the scouting or whether they were the right type of players for us but I think just in terms of fees it was probably an improvement on our previous outlay.

 

[romufc]

I wonder how many children INEOS would have to sacrifice before romufc would countenance the idea that INEOS have done something wrong? Maybe 50.

Didn't realise Manutd hire children at the club... I was under the impression its grown men.

 

[Roboc7]

I get that. My entire point wasn't "Ashworth and ETH caused these cuts". It was "INEOS need to start getting the big decisions right because those move the needle more than these cuts".

Will that start happening now? Maybe. I'm skeptical based on what I've seen so far though. Cutting scouts and recruitment staff, for instance, strikes me as penny wise and pound foolish when we're trying to become smarter in the transfer market and improve our ability to identify undervalued players.

Of course everything effectively depends on whether or not they can turn things around on the pitch.

We recruit terribly despite having more scouts than other teams, it’s all going to depend on what they are putting in place instead. Will they build up the data team for instance or will the head count not be allowed to go up.

There is only so much they can cut, at some point they have to generate some momentum and financial gain from their own work.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Yeah trimmed cause we’re 700m and change in debt. There’s not an excuse in the world that will make closing the staff canteen logical for an organisation like United it’s ridiculous

SAF is on record stating the canteen is so important to the club. The workers being inspired eating with stars and a sense of humility for the players eating with the working class it’s supposed to bring everyone together

Now we have staff members getting axed, first team players publicly trying to be sold (Garnacho) it’s a mess, it must be untenable behind the scenes

What

 

[NicolaSacco]

Also means it sounds like we are desperate to sell.

That’s a very good point, and one I had not thought of. Works both ways I guess:

 

[NicolaSacco]

Yea but the amount he spent on zirkzee and de ligt probably has the opposite effect

Are they Ratcliffe signings? I guess they are.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

just to SHOW YOU, that you need to read better.



This was my post to someone ELSE, which YOU replied to with this.



What footballing decisions you talking about? I asked is it Ten Hag?



Then I asked is it Ashworth? I put a question mark, go check what a question mark means.

I mentioned "footballing decisions" as a general statement. This isn't about ETH, or Ashworth, or any specific decision, but rather the overall set of decisions and strategy they've undertaken around the football side of the business.

 

[romufc]

I mentioned "footballing decisions" as a general statement. This isn't about ETH, or Ashworth, or any specific decision, but rather the overall set of decisions and strategy they've undertaken around the football side of the business.

Go on expand on it, what footballing decisions ?

 

[Roboc7]

Good point about everything currently being made into big news for clicks. We also don't have any clear idea on the number of people employed at all the clubs . I don't think that they have would have gotten rid of 350-400 people if it was going to massively impact the day to day running of the club.

I think Real Madrid had something like 250 less non football staff than us from the annual reports prior to us making cuts. We were clearly bloated or doing something differently somewhere.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Go on expand on it, what footballing decisions ?

I'm going to end it here before I say something I regret.

 

[Matt851]

I think the thing with the transfers is that it's a bit of hindsight really. I don't think that the transfers we made in the summer were massive overpays at the time. You can question the scouting or whether they were the right type of players for us but I think just in terms of fees it was probably an improvement on our previous outlay.

We literally got yoro because we were willing to pay way more than anyone else would pay. De ligt was also someone many thought qas a dubious signing at the time and is quite clearly someone we overpaid on.

I would rather we slightly overpay on someone that will improve the team than get a 'good deal' on someone that doesn't