Club ownership | Senior management team talk

I hope that Unions won't contest this else we risk a compromise were two from every department will have to fight to the death with the winner eating with the first team players
 
Squeaky_Bum_Time said:
Am I misreading it? I think the players are still offered all that, it’s everyone else who is affected (coaches, other staff).
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That was my understanding too. Nothing changes for the players, who I'd hope have a strict diet regimen that's carefully planned and tracked.
 
Only club in the league where literally every little thing is reported in the media. It’s ridiculous what is considered news these days.
 
It's so sad to see people in our fanbase defending these cuts. It's so insignificant that even the Glazers never thought of doing it.

Ratcliffe in all honesty is a horrible person, which comes as no surprise based on what we knew about him prior to the purchase. But I never thought he'd be worse than the Glazers.
 
Someone said:
It's so sad to see people in our fanbase defending these cuts. It's so insignificant that even the Glazers never thought of doing it.

Ratcliffe in all honesty is a horrible person, which comes as no surprise based on what we knew about him prior to the purchase. But I never thought he'd be worse than the Glazers.
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You do realise the Glazers that you are cheering for and defending have this club close to 1bn in debt?
 
We thought Mike Ashley was real bad but it seems Jim Ratcliffe is comfortably on the way to be worse than him.
 
I remember during thr bidding process we were always told that if no of the bids worked out we could end up in the worst case scenario of a hedge fund or something similar buying a stake. Fail to see how anything wpuld be different to ineos
 
PlasticRed said:
Id like to work where you do. I've never had a free lunch.

There's a lot of socialist guff posted on this forum.
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There are plenty of places of work where you get a free meal. Any top software firm for instance.

Importantly, it wasn't "socialism" that has brought this club to it's current state. It is being brought down by capitalists and their enablers. To start it all, a Leveraged buyout, one of the most abhorrent practices in the financial industry put the club under massive debt which wasn't ours. After that these capitalists kept taking dividends out of the club's accounts without any attempt or effort to clear the debt they used to buy this club by leveraging the club. Every time the debt came to maturity they introduced new debt to clear it. They hid under SAF's shadows and kept bleeding this club dry.

Once the great man retired they had nowhere to hide and hired a complete fecking idiot to run the club who in the ensuing years managed to feck up those finances even further by making one wrong decision after another. In addition to the massive debt, we now have additional huge transfer debt due to that clown's profligacy.

Things came to a pass and the situation become so bad that the Glazer's could not sustain it any further without selling the club, albeit reluctantly. Then came another messiah sent directly by God to bail them out. He let them still keep control of the club by indulging them and buying only a portion of the shares. Now the new messiahs after making more wrong and stupid decisions has decided to come with the most brutal and inhuman measures to cut costs.

But yeah, it was a free lunch for Becky who was making 20k/year that got us here.

Your post can do one.
 
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Insanity said:
There are plenty of places of work where you get a free meal. Any top software firm for instance.

Importantly, it wasn't "socialism" that has brought this club to it's current state. It is being brought down by capitalists and their enablers. To start it all, a Leveraged buyout, one of the most abhorrent practices in the financial industry put the club under massive debt which wasn't ours. After that these capitalists kept taking dividends out of the clubs accounts without any attempt or effort to clear the debt they used to buy this club by leveraging the club. Every time the debt came to maturity they introduced new debt to clear it. They hid under SAF's shadows and kept bleeding this club dry.

Once the great man retired they had nowhere to hide and hired a complete fecking idiot to run the club who in the ensuing years managed to feck up those finances even further by making one wrong decision after another. In addition to the massive debt, we now have additional huge transfer debt due to that clown's profligacy.

Things came to a pass and the situation become so bad that the Glazer's could not sustain it any further without selling the club, albeit reluctantly. Then came another messiah sent directly by God to bail them out. He let them still keep control of the club by indulging them and buying only a portion of the shares. Now the new messiahs after making more wrong and stupid decisions has decided to come with the most brutal and inhuman measures to cut costs.

But yeah, it was a free lunch for Becky who was making 20k/year that got us here.

Your post can do one.
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Top post, would give a like if I could
 
Insanity said:
There are plenty of places of work where you get a free meal. Any top software firm for instance.

Importantly, it wasn't "socialism" that has brought this club to it's current state. It is being brought down by capitalists and their enablers. To start it all, a Leveraged buyout, one of the most abhorrent practices in the financial industry put the club under massive debt which wasn't ours. After that these capitalists kept taking dividends out of the clubs accounts without any attempt or effort to clear the debt they used to buy this club by leveraging the club. Every time the debt came to maturity they introduced new debt to clear it. They hid under SAF's shadows and kept bleeding this club dry.

Once the great man retired they had nowhere to hide and hired a complete fecking idiot to run the club who in the ensuing years managed to feck up those finances even further by making one wrong decision after another. In addition to the massive debt, we now have additional huge transfer debt due to that clown's profligacy.

Things came to a pass and the situation become so bad that the Glazer's could not sustain it any further without selling the club, albeit reluctantly. Then came another messiah sent directly by God to bail them out. He let them still keep control of the club by indulging them and buying only a portion of the shares. Now the new messiahs after making more wrong and stupid decisions has decided to come with the most brutal and inhuman measures to cut costs.

But yeah, it was a free lunch for Becky who was making 20k/year that got us here.

Your post can do one.
Click to expand...

I think majority of us know how badly the club was run and has been under the Glazers and everything that is wrong with it, some fans still think they are good but a minority.

Now, you talk about a top software firm for instance, do you think if that firm was losing 100m a year, they would be giving out all this free stuff?

I keep seing people like you post this nonsense "small drop in the ocean, saving £1m in grand scheme is nothing"... well its not entirely true is it?

If you save £10 x 100 times, its a big saving. That is what they are doing, cutting costs in several areas for a bigger saving.

Whilst we can all agree, the debt is massive, this is not something INEOS can action, no one in their right mind will pay off debt that is not theirs. So because they are running football operations, they need to find ways of saving money for the sustainability of the club.

I dont get the issue if the club is not doing well, the staff are going to get punished. As an employee, you have to understand your negotiating power, when a company is not doing well, making losses, there is no negotiating power.

If the staff dont like it, they can quit.
 
Insanity said:
There are plenty of places of work where you get a free meal. Any top software firm for instance.

Importantly, it wasn't "socialism" that has brought this club to it's current state. It is being brought down by capitalists and their enablers. To start it all, a Leveraged buyout, one of the most abhorrent practices in the financial industry put the club under massive debt which wasn't ours. After that these capitalists kept taking dividends out of the club's accounts without any attempt or effort to clear the debt they used to buy this club by leveraging the club. Every time the debt came to maturity they introduced new debt to clear it. They hid under SAF's shadows and kept bleeding this club dry.

Once the great man retired they had nowhere to hide and hired a complete fecking idiot to run the club who in the ensuing years managed to feck up those finances even further by making one wrong decision after another. In addition to the massive debt, we now have additional huge transfer debt due to that clown's profligacy.

Things came to a pass and the situation become so bad that the Glazer's could not sustain it any further without selling the club, albeit reluctantly. Then came another messiah sent directly by God to bail them out. He let them still keep control of the club by indulging them and buying only a portion of the shares. Now the new messiahs after making more wrong and stupid decisions has decided to come with the most brutal and inhuman measures to cut costs.

But yeah, it was a free lunch for Becky who was making 20k/year that got us here.

Your post can do one.
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Spot on.

That being said, it was the actions and the complete abandonment of principles from a so-called socialist in Fergie and the fallout from the Rock or Gibraltar saga that resulted in the Glazer takeover
 
romufc said:
If you save £10 x 100 times, its a big saving. That is what they are doing, cutting costs in several areas for a bigger saving.
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And then making boneheaded football decisions that cost orders of magnitude more than the amount saved.
 
Someone said:
It's so sad to see people in our fanbase defending these cuts. It's so insignificant that even the Glazers never thought of doing it.

Ratcliffe in all honesty is a horrible person, which comes as no surprise based on what we knew about him prior to the purchase. But I never thought he'd be worse than the Glazers.
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Or the glazers completely mismanaged it, loaded debt on us, then realised cuts and money saving measures had to take place. So they got someone else to do it because they couldn’t afford any more heat from the supporters

One has cost us £1bn, the other has put in over £200m as minority owners.

But yeah.. worse than the Glazers. You’re feeling exactly how they wanted you to and you’re falling for it
 
Big Ben Foster said:
And then making boneheaded football decisions that cost orders of magnitude more than the amount saved.
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You do realise this was done under the Glazers too? Why are people still acting as if Ten Hag was free to sack in the summer?

Regardless when he was sacked, we would have had to pay a fee.
 
Does anyone think Ratcliff might be playing a bit of a blinder here. Constantly advertising all these extra small savings is really going to put into a selling club’s head that they can’t hold Utd to ransom and ask for a silly fee like the Anthony, Mount etc ones?
 
NicolaSacco said:
Does anyone think Ratcliff might be playing a bit of a blinder here. Constantly advertising all these extra small savings is really going to put into a selling club’s head that they can’t hold Utd to ransom and ask for a silly fee like the Anthony, Mount etc ones?
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Also means it sounds like we are desperate to sell.
 
romufc said:
You do realise this was done under the Glazers too? Why are people still acting as if Ten Hag was free to sack in the summer?

Regardless when he was sacked, we would have had to pay a fee.
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I'm not talking about the Ten Hag decision in isolation.

As for your argument, obviously we had to pay more in severance due to the fact that we extended his contract and hired new assistants. So "he wasn't free to sack either way" is a complete straw man.
 
Someone said:
It's so sad to see people in our fanbase defending these cuts. It's so insignificant that even the Glazers never thought of doing it.

Ratcliffe in all honesty is a horrible person, which comes as no surprise based on what we knew about him prior to the purchase. But I never thought he'd be worse than the Glazers.
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We’ve just passed £1bn of debt servicing costs, we’ve had a decade plus of dividends, a decade plus of ZERO pence being injected, morons in exec positions and built staff up to 1,200.

None of that was Ratcliffe. On the contrary, he injected funds, he reduced our RCF, he banned Divs for three years as part of his minority share agreement and he’s put experienced people in exec positions.

Yes, a couple of mistakes too but they’re nowhere near comparable.
 
romufc said:
I think majority of us know how badly the club was run and has been under the Glazers and everything that is wrong with it, some fans still think they are good but a minority.

Now, you talk about a top software firm for instance, do you think if that firm was losing 100m a year, they would be giving out all this free stuff?

I keep seing people like you post this nonsense "small drop in the ocean, saving £1m in grand scheme is nothing"... well its not entirely true is it?

If you save £10 x 100 times, its a big saving. That is what they are doing, cutting costs in several areas for a bigger saving.

Whilst we can all agree, the debt is massive, this is not something INEOS can action, no one in their right mind will pay off debt that is not theirs. So because they are running football operations, they need to find ways of saving money for the sustainability of the club.

I dont get the issue if the club is not doing well, the staff are going to get punished. As an employee, you have to understand your negotiating power, when a company is not doing well, making losses, there is no negotiating power.

If the staff dont like it, they can quit.
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No it's not. A thousand pounds is literally meaningless to an organization this big.

They aren't doing this to save money, they are doing this to send a message. If we were genuinely into cost savings, none of the ten Hag's contract extension / Ashworth's hiring & subsequent dismissal would have happened, we would not have gone and spent £200m on players in the Summer.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I'm not talking about the Ten Hag decision in isolation.

As for your argument, obviously we had to pay more in severance due to the fact that we extended his contract and hired new assistants. So "he wasn't free to sack either way" is a complete straw man.
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Right so you are talking about the Ashworth decision?

Okay, could you show me evidence to suggest the severance was higher when he was sacked? We saw a report come out around £12-15m for Ten Hag, his coaches and Ashworth.

This figure is from United's accounts btw, can you show me where it would have been cheaper earlier?
 
Insanity said:
There are plenty of places of work where you get a free meal. Any top software firm for instance.

Importantly, it wasn't "socialism" that has brought this club to it's current state. It is being brought down by capitalists and their enablers. To start it all, a Leveraged buyout, one of the most abhorrent practices in the financial industry put the club under massive debt which wasn't ours. After that these capitalists kept taking dividends out of the club's accounts without any attempt or effort to clear the debt they used to buy this club by leveraging the club. Every time the debt came to maturity they introduced new debt to clear it. They hid under SAF's shadows and kept bleeding this club dry.

Once the great man retired they had nowhere to hide and hired a complete fecking idiot to run the club who in the ensuing years managed to feck up those finances even further by making one wrong decision after another. In addition to the massive debt, we now have additional huge transfer debt due to that clown's profligacy.

Things came to a pass and the situation become so bad that the Glazer's could not sustain it any further without selling the club, albeit reluctantly. Then came another messiah sent directly by God to bail them out. He let them still keep control of the club by indulging them and buying only a portion of the shares. Now the new messiahs after making more wrong and stupid decisions has decided to come with the most brutal and inhuman measures to cut costs.

But yeah, it was a free lunch for Becky who was making 20k/year that got us here.

Your post can do one.
Click to expand...
Good post!
 
romufc said:
Right so you are talking about the Ashworth decision?

Okay, could you show me evidence to suggest the severance was higher when he was sacked? We saw a report come out around £12-15m for Ten Hag, his coaches and Ashworth.

This figure is from United's accounts btw, can you show me where it would have been cheaper earlier?
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His contract would have been shorter and we wouldn't have had to pay severance to his assistants who hadn't been hired at the time. If you're expecting exact figures, I can't provide that, because the club obviously won't publish hypothetical accounts saying "this is what it would have cost".
 
NicolaSacco said:
Does anyone think Ratcliff might be playing a bit of a blinder here. Constantly advertising all these extra small savings is really going to put into a selling club’s head that they can’t hold Utd to ransom and ask for a silly fee like the Anthony, Mount etc ones?
Click to expand...

It’s a theory that’s crossed my mind and seems plausible to offset the days of Woodward foolishly flexing the clubs financial might publicly to then only become a mark for every other club in the land when buying players, as well as agents of the players already there wanting better contracts.
 
Rolaholic said:
Top post, would give a like if I could
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People don't understand what has been done, and continues to be done, to our club and keep using nonsense buzz words like "socialism" to dismiss others.

Earlier we had the Glazers defenders who would say, "debt is good as interest is an operational cost and keeps the tax bill down" without understanding that debt is only good when you are trying to grow a business or keep an emergency credit line to cover shortfalls in operating costs. The money used to make interest payments and payout dividends didn't allow us to make capital investments in the club and has left the training ground and OT in dilapidated state. It is embarrassing that the facilities of one of the top 3/5 clubs in the world are in such a state when all other top clubs have upgraded or in the process. The most annoying part is that the initial debt wasn't even our own.

We could have funded the stadium with our money and at a much earlier date if we didn't just piss away money down the drain. Now our new overlord wants the state/city to foot the bill in some American style nonsense where they use the fans emotional connect with a sporting institution to build a stadium using tax payers funds, when those funds can be used for other social causes and make people's lives better.

It's the ugliest parts of American capitalism that is on display here.

feck socialism, though.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
His contract would have been shorter and we wouldn't have had to pay severance to his assistants who hadn't been hired at the time. If you're expecting exact figures, I can't provide that, because the club obviously won't publish hypothetical accounts saying "this is what it would have cost".
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It quite obviously would have been cheaper to dismiss him in the Summer, not even a debate. We definitely paid off some sort of severance to his new assistants, and his severance alone would have been less expensive with a shorter deal.
 
Insanity said:
People don't understand what has been done, and continues to be done, to our club and keep using nonsense buzz words like "socialism" to dismiss others.

Earlier we had the Glazers defenders who would say, "debt is good as interest is an operational cost and keeps the tax bill down" without understanding that debt is only good when you are trying to grow a business or keep an emergency credit line to cover shortfalls in operating costs. The money used to make interest payments and payout dividends didn't allow us to make capital investments in the club and has left the training ground and OT in dilapidated state. It is embarrassing that the facilities of one of the top 3/5 clubs in the world are in such a state when all other top clubs have upgraded or in the process. The most annoying part is that the initial debt wasn't even our own.

We could have funded the stadium with our money and at a much earlier date if we didn't just piss away money down the drain. Now our new overlord wants the state/city to foot the bill in some American style nonsense where they use the fans emotional connect with a sporting institution to build a stadium using tax payers funds, when those funds can be used for other social causes and make people's lives better.

It's the ugliest parts of American capitalism that is on display here.

feck socialism, though.
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I think it extends well beyond our club. Basically unless you make your workplace a completely miserable place for your employees, you are a socialist. It's like people feel nostalgic about hardship.
 
Sarni said:
No it's not. A thousand pounds is literally meaningless to an organization this big.

They aren't doing this to save money, they are doing this to send a message.
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Yeah that's why all top clubs, rich people, billionaires just hand out freebies to people?

Its not just thousands is it? making redundancies, cutting costs, reducing player salaries is not thousands of £ is it?

Its more like millions. Add all the cost saving up and you will see its not just thousands.

Its thousand if you tunnel vision into just one element of it.
 
Intel recently sacked a lot of people worldwide. I don't know how it was in other countries, but one of the things they did in their office in Israel was to stop letting the employees get free coffee and starting to charge them for it.

It was silly and was going to save so little money, but they still thought it would be a good idea. And after a week of bad publicity they reversed their decision.
 
romufc said:
Yeah that's why all top clubs, rich people, billionaires just hand out freebies to people?

Its not just thousands is it? making redundancies, cutting costs, reducing player salaries is not thousands of £ is it?

Its more like millions. Add all the cost saving up and you will see its not just thousands.

Its thousand if you tunnel vision into just one element of it.
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Many successful businesses are able to be profitable and grow while making their working environment great for people. Miserable workplace is not an inherent part of success.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
His contract would have been shorter and we wouldn't have had to pay severance to his assistants who hadn't been hired at the time. If you're expecting exact figures, I can't provide that, because the club obviously won't publish hypothetical accounts saying "this is what it would have cost".
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So you dont know and are assuming? Say that then.

How do you know during the extension, there was no new clause added to protect the club?

You dont know that and are assuming it.
 
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