It can be mutually beneficial, imagine Nice getting Sancho or a talent like Mejbri on loan, without any financial outlay on their part. What we need is a team, in a good league, to farm out our kids in need of competitive football. It's just that we fecked up by not keeping our CL place.
Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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If I were a Nice fan, I really would truthfully see the positives in it.
Young talents are going to be more inclined to go there because there's a move to United on the cards if you do well. Good chance Nice are going to feel the benefit of that. I don't think Dortmund fans complain too much when they get a Bellingham or a Haaland for a few years.
I bet they can't wait to get average players and players with attitude problems.
Right, you might have discussed it but let me also repeat what journalists have said too.
1. Correct, Ten Hag knew the price. Ten Hag comes in and says I need Antony, De Jong, Lisandro, LB, CM, ST. Manutd have signed a 75m RW season before and Ten Hag is told by this said player that United chased for 2 seasons to play RW that he doesn't want to play RW he prefers LW.
Now, we have a situation dont we? The club has no player that wants to play RW.
2. You go in and get battered by Brighton and Brentford in the first two games because we signed no ST, RW, CM.
Now we need players, the club say, we have Casemiro we have worked on and pay 70m for him, Ten Hag could say no, or go all season with no CM... shock he says yes.
RW now, he told them from May he wanted Antony... there were links with him from very early where he was valued at 40m, we instead said no no no no.. shock that closer to the end of the window, where Ajax have sold alot of their players they dont need money, Manchester United, its 80m now.
Murtough goes to Ten Hag and says 80m, I doubt they would have gone through FFP, accounting books etc with Teh Hag, you may think they did, I dont know.
Ten Hag goes, I have worked with him, I think he is good, pay it.
Now there are two things here.
No manager cares about the club financially, they want whats best for them, not the club, so for Ten Hag, he thinks oh I will have better results with RW like Antony, not my concern if its £1m or £80m.
Secondly, why employ DoF, negotiatiors and the like if you go to a club, they give us a number and we pay it? What is the point?
Now, as you think its Ten Hag making transfer decisions, we had offers for McT & Maguire, why didn't Ten Hag accept those offers? United thought they were low.
Why Didnt Ten Hag approve 110m for Kane because he is the one who he wanted?
Why didn't Ten Hag approve Kim for £40m?
Why didnt Ten Hag approve £20m for Ambrabat instead got him on loan?
Did we ever get quoted a price for Kane? Or we just knew it wasn't happening and rightly moved on?
What happened is we had De Jong as our prime target, identified by who? Ten Hag and throughout all this it didnt get through to him that De Jong didn't want to come. He was going to be a big purchase which meant that we didn't do any business until we knew what it would cost us and how it would affect the budget save for the time Arsenal forced our hand on Lisandro Martinez.
The fact that Antony was even a target at all when his performances shows he has no business in this league let alone at the top end of it is an indictment on Ten Hag. That he okayed an 80m deal for him is sackable negligence by itself.
So that summer we didn't move quickly notwithstanding our own structural issues because the manager wanted an unattainable player and he wasn't flexible on the RW target. Arnold and Murtough are now out of power, rightfully, for giving their manager too much say in an area he wasn't competent in which cost us half a billion spent on shit.
The fact that you admit that he doesn't care whether a player cost 80m or 1m shows the naivety which we castigate him for. Where did he think more money was coming from, under the Glazers at that? These things have a way of coming back to bite you, waste money on average talent you don't achieve club objectives you suffer the ignominy of having your role publicly reviewed for half a month after winning a Cup and have the whole world know you are lucky enough to escape the sack because there wasn't a stand out candidate.
They are a fifth placed team in France they would be lucky to get some of the talent we want to get rid of or we need to avail game time to for developmental purposes. It's not everyday we are flogging off duds.
It is easy to say, but we must remember that Nice also have fans of their own that care naught for United. Treating them like a secondary club is not going to go down well.
I think the key thing for me is how competent INEOS are and how much trust to place in their management of the club. Can we assume they know what they're doing? Or are they just more involved but capability wise no different from Murtough and Woodward? Bloomberg had an interesting graph of INEOS owned / sponsored sports entities and their performance before and after INEOS investments.
(See https://archive.is/gFSoz , "Jim Ratcliffe's sporting scorecard")
It's not exactly inspiring. All the entities he took over were doing worse or about the same as when he first took over.
(See https://archive.is/gFSoz , "Jim Ratcliffe's sporting scorecard")
It's not exactly inspiring. All the entities he took over were doing worse or about the same as when he first took over.
Maybe you shouldn’t have voted for Brexit then jimbo. Benefits eh
The relationship could be complimentary not one sided. I am looking at some of the youngsters we have who are starved of opportunities who can do well for them and with no financial risk to them. The fact that we can also benefit doesn't mean it'd be at a loss for them. Take, Sancho for example, do you really think Nice fans would turn their nose up at having a CL finalist in their team?
So far they have made the right moves, hired a promising CEO and brought in a couple of experienced heads. Predictably it's early days and we have to contend with gardening leaves and the like but I like what they have done so far. They have focused on the areas we always complained about so I'd say the preparation has been spot on.
We shouldn't look at their impact now or next season, we are in trouble and it will take a few seasons and windows to get us right. If we make the right moves this season we should compete strongly for the Europa League, go deep in the Cups and possibly finish 4th or 5tg which could get us CL football. Go again in the summer of 2025 we should be in and around the top 3 and if we repeat a top 3 finish we could push on for a title challenge.
What we have to get right is the recruitment so that we have an 70% hit rate for every pound we spend on players. This will ensure that we don't need to replace players we spent millions on just two years before. If we reach that position then we can look to incremental improvement each season.
Opportunity Jimbo… get Timotei to make ads there
You dont know if we did or didnt.
Right, so you agree that De Jong was our main target and the fee was £70m. So Ten Hag at the start of the window knew the budget right? How incompetent must a club be to let a new manager lose on transfers and let him chase someone that does not want to come to United.
So as a club you have red flag no.1 on Ten Hag, FDJ correct? his inability to get him. Then again the club goes and gives him £80m which was not in the budget? Where did the club find that money?
No manager cares about the clubs finances, they all want players, I have seen numerous managers complain that the clubs are not spending enough, I remember Conte saying to Inter, spend or I quit.
Yes, he is lucky and everyone knows it, shows more about how crap the managerial choices are too.
If you feel a manager should be sacked for signing a player that has not worked out, do you think Pep should be sacked for Phillips, Kovacic, Nunes?
Yep, I'm sure progress to them is getting dead wood who has struggled in worse leagues and players who can't be bothered. What an out-of-touch privileged point of view. They were promised a title challenge under Ineos, their fans would obviously be pissed to see that change and watch them become a feeder club. Pure elitism.
I'm not liking some of the quotes from him recently.
His thinking that multi-club ownership is a good thing and now saying that he understands why City are taking legal action against the Prem. Honestly dickhead things imo.
His thinking that multi-club ownership is a good thing and now saying that he understands why City are taking legal action against the Prem. Honestly dickhead things imo.
They're one example of a club with very high standards. No one expects it to be the same in English football but it would be nice if the fans had high standards like their fans.
Another poster said ETH wouldn't be under pressure if we amassed 6 points from our opening 6 games. That could be 4 losses and that's ok apparently. But he's here next season so let's see if we act like a top team in the coming 12 months, because standards need to start high if we're to get to RM level as was mentioned by SJR
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My point is you cant pick and chose when you want to compare yourself with Madrid. You talk about having high standards for the coach but ignore everything else.
Like SJR said, its not going to do be done in one summer.
Real Madrid sack managers who win leagues / managers leave and the season after its win the league again.
At United we say.. 8th wouldn't be accepted by Madrid.
No, it wont be but neither would having sub par facilities / players.
If you want us to sack a manager for finishing 8th because Madrid do it, you should also be calling for their head if they finish 3rd. They expect to challenge every season. I really want us to get there, challenging every season, but I know, just by sacking the manager we wont get there.
Real Madrid are light years ahead of us.
I will explain.. they decided a while back, we need a world class stadium and built it. they realised that we can't just keep buying Galacticos.
They went and bought young players like Vini, Tchouameni, Endrick, Valverde, Guler, Cammavinga, Jude in readiness for the old guard in Benzema, Kroos, Casemiro, Modrid etc.
We haven't done that, we are still struggling to replace Valencia RW, Carrick CM, Van Persie CF.
You can mention one poster saying 6 points in 6 games is no pressure but my opinion is that he almost has to win 5/6 to show progress. I mean I expect him to challenge next season, that's the reason I have faith in him. I dont want us to have a manager for 3rd season not to expect him to challenge.
Its his fault that the team style is not ready, yes there are issues in terms of transfers and that but he has had his fair share of backing.
Finally, I also see people mentioning Antony for 80m means he should be sacked just on that.. well let me compare to RM. They spend 130m on Hazard, 63m on Jovic. This shows you even the best get it wrong in the transfer window, no club gets it 100% right. Do you think Real Madrid sacked the manager / board because of mistake in the transfer window?
He's not a journalist.
The unraveling will continue
Yeah I'm a glass half full kinda guy. Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox have much stronger resumes than Woodward, Arnold and Murtough so I hope there's some improvement but there definitely are question marks hanging around INEOS. The whole situation with the Ten Hag flip flop was concerning. Nice fans .. not sure how much they enjoyed the meddling from Brailsford / Ratcliffe. There was even some grumbling from the Nice captain about INEOS in an interview.
I don't think progress will be linear. If they do well it should be pretty obvious in the first season. Let's see.
Logic would dictate yes but the bar continuously gets lowered at the club as the years go on so the unacceptable in years passed becomes acceptable along with excuses subsequently becoming the norm
We need to have high standards including the manager not excluding the manager. And I expect him to fail because I don't think he's good enough for the top level..we'll see I guess.
I think its the right call to start building from the ground, the head coach for me is the final piece.
Get the structure right, infrastructure right - INEOS have started that with Carrington upgrade and new sporting people.
That said, its not a free pass for the manager, which is evident by them reviewing his position, if there was an outstanding candidate, he'd be gone by now.
Madridchester United.
It has been widely reported that EtH holds a strong influence on our transfers, something he doesn't want to let go of.
Has anyone got a video of sjr latest interview? Sorry if I’ve missed it
All talks no action, can someone tell him to start doing something other than talking, he can start with fixing the stadium leaks.
Well he has taken action. He's put in 300 million for infrastructure (Carrington is being upgraded and I am sure the roof will be addressed), hired a complete new team and tasked them with fixing things. It's also only been 6 months, so I'm not sure what this is about.
It is also not his sole responsibility as minority owner...
This - if the manager doesn't care about finances, he can't greenlight an expensive signing and then later complain that there's no money for other transfers and that the club has to go through the bargain bin for loans.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
You think a manager that has demanded control over transfers has no interest in the fees? Utter nonsense.
Agreed somehow logic seems to evade people when it comes to fanboyism. Club finances for self funding clubs like us are a closed ecosystem - if you waste big money on shit for two consecutive seasons, fail to make the CL knockouts and fail to qualify for the CL your budget gets reduced drastically and can be a career ender.
Our biggest issue is we haven't made any meaningful revenue in the transfer market since Fergie, we, as a traditional big club are amongst the biggest proponents of PSR, can't be seen to be circumvating sustainability rules openly so it will be difficult to strengthen significantly in their first summer. He has said the right things, tried to do the right things and, for now, deserves a bit of patience.
If these guys dare hire Southgate they should be dragged from their homes and thrown out at sea.
I'm sure we'll spend another 120-150m by the end of this window, so let's see. That's a decent outlay and hopefully at least 3 players and for me, that's enough info to judge how the window went in a year. All of the people who seem to know what they're talking about with PSR think we're not particularly limited by it this season.
We'll also know how well we're selling, so if we get good money for Greenwood and manage to move Sancho and Casemiro that's a good sign.
Why all that negativity suddenly? They are doing well and trying to improve things, addressing our issues.
I also think that multiple ownership can be beneficial for clubs and United, just strange that our ownership is an issue whilst others are not
I also think that multiple ownership can be beneficial for clubs and United, just strange that our ownership is an issue whilst others are not
Unless UEFA/FIFA outrule multi-club ownership once and for all, it's here to stay and most likely only going to become more prominent.
Considering the only real memorable interaction the Glazers have had with the United fanbase has been following the aftermath of the Super League, I rather like the honest approach from Ratcliffe, even if I don't agree with it all.
There would be protests outside old Trafford. I’d be there
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