I disagree with you. Bayern tried a lot from the wings, with Alaba, Robben and Ribery. Ribery was atrocious though. Your players cannot be in great form all the time. You say that Bayern radically altered their style due to Pep. Well, I have not noticed such a radical change, a minor one maybe. If what you are saying is true, then the mere removal of Pep from the club will make Bayern unbeatable again. You, like an astonishing number of football fans, seem to reduce football to the manager/tactics department, and radically belittling the importance of other factors such as: a) Physical conditioning, b) Quality of players, c) Blind, stupid, random luck, d) Psychological factors, e) Ageing of players etc...
CL Semi-Finals 13/14 - April 22,23,29,30
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I disagree with you. Bayern tried a lot from the wings, with Alaba, Robben and Ribery. Ribery was atrocious though. Your players cannot be in great form all the time. You say that Bayern radically altered their style due to Pep. Well, I have not noticed such a radical change, a minor one maybe. If what you are saying is true, then the mere removal of Pep from the club will make Bayern unbeatable again. You, like an astonishing number of football fans, seem to reduce football to the manager/tactics department, and radically belittling the importance of other factors such as: a) Physical conditioning, b) Quality of players, c) Blind, stupid, random luck, d) Psychological factors, e) Ageing of players etc...
Did he say that? I watched with friends in a pub and started drinking after the game, wasn't interested in any post game interviews. Seems like that was the right choiceLahm: "We were the better team."
It's part of the problem yes. We should have pushed hard for the few records we could have broken, kept the focus on winning every game and scoring a lot instead of just looking to get through games. Pep saying in public that the league is done and we don't care about it anymore certainly didn't help, one of the most idiotic things I've heard form a manager, it was always going to affect the team. But we already played below our best before that. We changed the tactics way too often during the season. The 4141 we played in the first half of the season was terrific. Then we used valuable time during the winterbreak to train a 3 man backline, that didn't work, then moved to a 4231 when Schweinsteiger and Martinez came back from injuries, just to throw that out of the window again for a few crazy 3223 games. And now the original game plan still seems the best, but instead of playing it all year to perfect it, the players look a bit lost in it. fecking nightmare.
Oh and Ribery turning to shit in 2014 doesn't help either. His form reflects the performances of the team perfectly. He often carried us in the first half of this season, started on fire, arguably even better than last season. Since his two injuries and the loss of the Ballon d'Or he's almost useless
.We barely made any runs in behind the defense, no penetration in the final third. We had good movement in midfield which helped keeping the ball when Real tried to press us. It all looked pretty for a while until it become pointless and boring. We were much more dangerous when we played more direct in the end. I also think it's criminal that Müller rarely starts in our away matches in the CL now. He's been by far our best scorer and arguably best player away from home for years. Makes not the slightest bit of sense to me
You had some good plays right into the Madrid box, but on at least 3-4 occasions you were blocked by Pepe/Alonso/Ramos/Casillas. When a fellow European giant is willing to play that defensive against you, it becomes mega frustrating and there are no ready-made and easy remedies for such situations. You, like Barcelona for so many years, are finding out the hard way. Or to put it in another way, the moment your great rivals admit their inferiority, it is then that you are most in trouble.
To return to the game, I thought that there was fantastic movement from Bayern, especially in the first half. In fact I think that your players were overly aggressive in that first half, and tired significantly by the second.
Mandzukic saved your ass against United, I think that that is the reason he was chosen.
It's part of the problem yes. We should have pushed hard for the few records we could have broken, kept the focus on winning every game and scoring a lot instead of just looking to get through games. Pep saying in public that the league is done and we don't care about it anymore certainly didn't help, one of the most idiotic things I've heard form a manager, it was always going to affect the team. But we already played below our best before that. We changed the tactics way too often during the season. The 4141 we played in the first half of the season was terrific. Then we used valuable time during the winterbreak to train a 3 man backline, that didn't work, then moved to a 4231 when Schweinsteiger and Martinez came back from injuries, just to throw that out of the window again for a few crazy 3223 games. And now the original game plan still seems the best, but instead of playing it all year to perfect it, the players look a bit lost in it. fecking nightmare.
Oh and Ribery turning to shit in 2014 doesn't help either. His form reflects the performances of the team perfectly. He often carried us in the first half of this season, started on fire, arguably even better than last season. Since his two injuries and the loss of the Ballon d'Or he's almost useless
Yeah, Ribery has been pretty awful of late. From the few matches I have seen of you guys this year, Robben is twice as threatening as Ribery. We had the same problem last season. After cantering to the title, we just took the foot off the gas. Can happen to the best, but Pep should have seen this coming and tried to get his players head screwed on for all the league matches as well. Now it seems you guys snooze through your bundesliga matches against most opponents.
I'm not sure that's true. The problem is, the possession tactics force the opponent to play that defensive. If you don't give them the ball at all, they can't commit numbers forward and you can't exploit the gaps that open up because of it. Last season we mixed it up a lot, played possession and pressing for 10-15 minutes followed by sitting deeper and giving the ball away, soaking up a bit of pressure, trick your opponent into believing he finally has a chance to do something with the ball. Then press deeper and score in transition. It was beautiful, the tactical flexibility and variations of our attacks were a nightmare for every opponent. I don't think Real admitted their inferiority yesterday, they just exploited our weaknesses and we let them. Last season we protected our weaknesses and exploited the flaws of the opponent (high press against Juve's centerbacks, physical dominance in midfield against Barca for example).
I really love Pep, I'm still excited about what's happening at the club and this season - despite maybe a shit ending - still exceeds my expectations, because I expected Pep to struggle more and the team to loose their determination earlier. It's just a bit sad at the moment, because we started the season so brilliantly
I'm not sure that's true. The problem is, the possession tactics force the opponent to play that defensive. If you don't give them the ball at all, they can't commit numbers forward and you can't exploit the gaps that open up because of it. Last season we mixed it up a lot, played possession and pressing for 10-15 minutes followed by sitting deeper and giving the ball away, soaking up a bit of pressure, trick your opponent into believing he finally has a chance to do something with the ball. Then press deeper and score in transition. It was beautiful, the tactical flexibility and variations of our attacks were a nightmare for every opponent. I don't think Real admitted their inferiority yesterday, they just exploited our weaknesses and we let them. Last season we protected our weaknesses and exploited the flaws of the opponent (high press against Juve's centerbacks, physical dominance in midfield against Barca for example).
I really love Pep, I'm still excited about what's happening at the club and this season - despite maybe a shit ending - still exceeds my expectations, because I expected Pep to struggle more and the team to loose their determination earlier. It's just a bit sad at the moment, because we started the season so brilliantly
You are now the team that everyone dreams of beating. Juventus and Barca tried to play their customary game against you. This year, no one is foolish enough to attempt anything of that kind. Real are one of the strongest teams in Europe, and easily so. On top of that, they have the players that can hit you on the counter (keep also in mind that both Ronaldo and Bale were far from being 100%) and that is exactly what they did. No surprises there. You played well, they played well too. You made a couple more mistakes than they did, and they converted once from those. Football is as simple as that sometimes. The possibility of losing is always there, no matter what your tactics may be.
Yup, but chances are bayern would never get rid of him. Probably the most high profile coach in footballl atm. Their wing play was all around the fullback supporting the winger cutting in. That has dissapeared. Instead robben is taking on 3 players everytime he has the ball. You see, the overlap takes away one defender and then the winger will have a 1 on 1 or a one, they normally also had a midfielder open near the winger which made robben or ribbery have more options than they get now. While robben did try all he could madrid found it easy to over commit men on him to stifle him. Lahm who's the best crosser of the ball in the team is in midfield anyways. Surely you noticed that those wide combos that brought pain to so many teams last season were non exisistent?
The changes are vast unless you didn't pay attention to bayern last season you'd know what they are. Bayern didn't use a high line like that. Their line was dependant on oppositions play. This made them less vulnerable to counters. They took more shots from range, crossed the ball more with numbers in the box, and were fantastic in transition. Now they are padestrian and pass the ball around waiting for oppenings. They were clearly more direct than what they've showed recently. They use to even cede possession of the ball in some games in order to catch the teams with some transition plays(ask arsenal). What they are now is barca lite and that's what they weren't.
I'm not sure that's true. The problem is, the possession tactics force the opponent to play that defensive. If you don't give them the ball at all, they can't commit numbers forward and you can't exploit the gaps that open up because of it. Last season we mixed it up a lot, played possession and pressing for 10-15 minutes followed by sitting deeper and giving the ball away, soaking up a bit of pressure, trick your opponent into believing he finally has a chance to do something with the ball. Then press deeper and score in transition. It was beautiful, the tactical flexibility and variations of our attacks were a nightmare for every opponent. I don't think Real admitted their inferiority yesterday, they just exploited our weaknesses and we let them. Last season we protected our weaknesses and exploited the flaws of the opponent (high press against Juve's centerbacks, physical dominance in midfield against Barca for example).
I really love Pep, I'm still excited about what's happening at the club and this season - despite maybe a shit ending - still exceeds my expectations, because I expected Pep to struggle more and the team to loose their determination earlier. It's just a bit sad at the moment, because we started the season so brilliantly
That is absolutely spot on. To think that giving up possession to the opponent is equaling admitting inferiority is way too simple. Possession alone does not make a team superior, especially if the other team focuses on different aspects of the game. It is about finding the right concept for your team to work and to hurt the oppositions game.
Guardiola´s possession based system is like every other system not flawless. It is vulnerable to fast, direct transitioning and Ancelotti just like every other top class coach would do used that against Bayern. It is Bayern´s task to adapt to that, which they could last year in an extremely impressive fashion. One of their current problems is that they are too predictable right now and that makes them struggle vs. certain teams.
You barca fans are some lost souls. So the deep line that bayern employed last season vs barca was an admition of inferiority ? Or the deep line they employed vs arsenal at the emirates? Or perhaps the same one we've employed vs l'arse over the years? No, it isn't. Instead its knowing what works and what doesn't. Drawing yourself out of defending positions at the back to chase the ball leads to you being dissorganised and easy to pick through by a team that has 8 or more players in your half. I guess everyone still feels inferior to barca today since teams still use deep lines against them? Its not feeling inferior, its a football tactic. Its what has lead to countless titles in europe for italian teams over the years, a heavily decorated italian national team and mou being one of the greatest coaches of modern times.
Did he say that? I watched with friends in a pub and started drinking after the game, wasn't interested in any post game interviews. Seems like that was the right choice
Can't remember if he said this or not, but he said Bayern played well but Real have world class players, Bayern could have done better but it's not easy to play or completely stop RM. He was confident about the return leg and said anything is possible in the Allianz Arena (well he doesn't have another choice, at least he didn't do a Moyes and said "we will try to get a result".
Neuer also said Bayern played well, commentators were asking them questions about Guardiola's tactics, both players refused to blame him or tactics, Neuer also said that of course they knew about RM's speed and you can do things against it which they tried, but in the end you can't completely stop someone's speed (gave Bale or Ronaldo as examples).
Winning the title so early this season really didn't do us any good, sadly. I honestly don't see us getting those two good performances that you are talking about. Next week Real will most probably have a fully fit Ronaldo and Bale as well, just can't see us not conceding.I don't get
During the first half of the season we played some superb football and the tactics employed were actually good. Now it's just pass,pass, pass for the sake of it. Ironically it was Pep who said that it's meaningless to just pass the ball around without penetration, good stuff! To say we had the initiative against them yesterday is ridiculous in my opinion, we played right into their hands and made it easier for them. Even Ancelotti admitted that our gameplan suited them.
Bayern lost because openings were there to run directly in one-on-one confrontations, but they weren't equipped to do that. Opportunities coming straight from transitions but they would rather play it safe. No risk, no reward. Too much respect for the opposition.
Xabi was the best player on the pitch IMO. He provided much more defensive cover than he usually does, the entire switch in philosophy from Carletto was a risk and it worked. It's amazing how good average defenders can look when they have cover. They were obviously helped by Mandzukic being static in the final third but they were castrated offensively by two coaches.
They looked regularly to switch play but they were very slow at it, that's why whenever they did one of their 40 (?) crosses it ended in nothing. COentrao did a great job on Robben.
I can't help but have a Courbis moment...hopefully it doesn't ends in a different way.
Xabi was the best player on the pitch IMO. He provided much more defensive cover than he usually does, the entire switch in philosophy from Carletto was a risk and it worked. It's amazing how good average defenders can look when they have cover. They were obviously helped by Mandzukic being static in the final third but they were castrated offensively by two coaches.
They looked regularly to switch play but they were very slow at it, that's why whenever they did one of their 40 (?) crosses it ended in nothing. COentrao did a great job on Robben.
I can't help but have a Courbis moment...hopefully it doesn't ends in a different way.
@Blackwidow
If Müller does want to leave after this season, Pep can go feck himself.
If Müller does want to leave after this season, Pep can go feck himself.
Madrid covered 113km whilst Bayern covered 118km.
I think the RM left back figured out that Robben only seems to cut inside. Kept ushering him wide which contained him seemingly.
That's all they seemed to try too. Pass to Robben for him to cut inside, I was mocking it by the end of the game, he was sussed.
That's all they seemed to try too. Pass to Robben for him to cut inside, I was mocking it by the end of the game, he was sussed.
Just watched the match. Wow just what was Ramos doing lunging in like that inside the penalty box. That was 200% penalty any time any day. Ref bottled the decision.
It was Alonso, wasn't it?
Its definitely Ramos. Number 4 behind. I'm surprised he's still in the first team. Always looks like he has a mistake in him every big match.
You may be right. I was half asleep.
We are talking about the challenge on Muller, right?
On robben.
3:00.
One of the most shocking display of defending I've seen this season.
Funny 
Even Bayern fans admitting that they did not play well yesterday but a Barca fan insisting they did.
Pep as a great a coach he may be, clearly can not adapt his tactics for the away games in Europe. This is his away games record in CL knockouts -
2012 - Chelsea - 1-0 loss
2012- Milan - 0-0
2012- Leverkusen - 3-1 win
2011- Arsenal - 2-1 loss
2011- Madrid - 2-0 win
2011 - Shakhtar - 5-1 win
2010- Inter - 3-1 loss
2010- Arsenal - 2-2
2010 - Stuutgart - 1-1
2009- Lyon - 1-1
2009- Bayern - 1-1
2009- Chelsea - 1-1
That is actually an alright away record but when you consider that it was with a team, many consider best ever in club football, it is very unimpressive. Only victory of note there is the 2-0 win over Madrid and that was a farcical match on so many levels. Compare that to Bayern last season -
3-1 victory over Arsenal, 2-0 over Juve, 3-0 over Barca.
There was no need to commit so many players forward last night and expose Bayern defenders 1 v 1 against Madrid attackers. If anyone was unlucky not to score more in that match it was Madrid.
Even Bayern fans admitting that they did not play well yesterday but a Barca fan insisting they did. Pep as a great a coach he may be, clearly can not adapt his tactics for the away games in Europe. This is his away games record in CL knockouts -
2012 - Chelsea - 1-0 loss
2012- Milan - 0-0
2012- Leverkusen - 3-1 win
2011- Arsenal - 2-1 loss
2011- Madrid - 2-0 win
2011 - Shakhtar - 5-1 win
2010- Inter - 3-1 loss
2010- Arsenal - 2-2
2010 - Stuutgart - 1-1
2009- Lyon - 1-1
2009- Bayern - 1-1
2009- Chelsea - 1-1
That is actually an alright away record but when you consider that it was with a team, many consider best ever in club football, it is very unimpressive. Only victory of note there is the 2-0 win over Madrid and that was a farcical match on so many levels. Compare that to Bayern last season -
3-1 victory over Arsenal, 2-0 over Juve, 3-0 over Barca.
There was no need to commit so many players forward last night and expose Bayern defenders 1 v 1 against Madrid attackers. If anyone was unlucky not to score more in that match it was Madrid.
Can't wait for the game to start. I'm already nervous as hell. 10 more hours to go .
.Bayern will need 3 goals I think. Real will score.
I am going for 3-1 to Bayern.
I am going for 3-1 to Bayern.
I've got to admit that despite preferring Real to Bayern, I would prefer Bayern to win as I want Ancelotti to come to united.
I don't mind being transparent.
I don't mind being transparent.
I've got exams tomorrow and Thursday morning so I really can't get into it as much. I'm sort of pessimistic about it if I'm being honest, although I have a feeling Pep might let go of his stubbornness this once. Who knows, we might be surprised!Can't wait for the game to start. I'm already nervous as hell. 10 more hours to go
Bayern will have 4 thousand passes today result doesn't matter as long as they win on possession and passes completed IMO.
result doesn't matter as long as they win on possession and passes completed IMO.Although Ancelotti's tactics were superb last week, i believe that this is still in Bayern's hands. I don't think Guardiola will do the same mistakes again just for the sake of not changing his formation. He's never been that kind of manager.
He knows he'll have possession and that Real Madrid will try again to hit on the counter with immediate, direct vertical or diagonal long balls whenever they steal the ball. He also knows that no pair of CBs can deal with Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema when they run with the ball and they have acres of open space in front of them.
So, i expect that Martinez will start as DM to provide cover for the wingers & forwards and more importantly operate as a shield in front of the CBs and "force" the Real Madrid counters to "wither" out wide. I also expect Lahm to play in his natural position. He is probably the best full back of the last decade or so. When you face the likes of Ronaldo and Bale, you need your best options to deal with them.
During the press conference Guardiola said that he hopes his players will make the best out of the possession they'll enjoy this time, but also mentioned that he takes responsibility for Ribery's bad form, that he's a key player, very good when playing 1v1, and that is the manager's job to provide players like him with more options in the final third.
I know that i maybe reading too much into this, but it sounded like a hint that we'll see more of Muller tonight. Not replacing Mandzukic, but playing in the midfield instead of Kroos. Imo Muller is the player who can win this for Bayern Munich. His ability to find pockets of space in seemingly overcrowded areas is impressive. He can offer an extra option for a through ball to Robben and Ribery and make the most of Mandzukic's strength in the air and ability to keep possession in dangerous areas.
Muller lurks in areas where defenders don't want to go, aiming to find space either between the lines, in channels or behind the opposing defense from where he can help his side move swiftly up field, or where he can look to shoot at goal or play a final pass. He offers a more direct outlet than the likes of Kroos, Gotze and Schweinsteiger. The only time the Real defense looked to have problems during the first leg was when Muller was brought on.
Another reason both Mandzukic and Martinez should start are set pieces. Real Madrid chose to give away free kicks in dangerous areas in order to break the rhythm of their opponents. I presume they'll do the same tonight. It's going to be close and Bayern need to search everywhere for the goals they need.
If that's the case, with Martinez as DM, Lahm as RB and Muller in the midfield,my prediction would be 3-1 to Bayern. I would also like to see if Ancelotti has a plan b if they find themselves chasing the game.
He knows he'll have possession and that Real Madrid will try again to hit on the counter with immediate, direct vertical or diagonal long balls whenever they steal the ball. He also knows that no pair of CBs can deal with Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema when they run with the ball and they have acres of open space in front of them.
So, i expect that Martinez will start as DM to provide cover for the wingers & forwards and more importantly operate as a shield in front of the CBs and "force" the Real Madrid counters to "wither" out wide. I also expect Lahm to play in his natural position. He is probably the best full back of the last decade or so. When you face the likes of Ronaldo and Bale, you need your best options to deal with them.
During the press conference Guardiola said that he hopes his players will make the best out of the possession they'll enjoy this time, but also mentioned that he takes responsibility for Ribery's bad form, that he's a key player, very good when playing 1v1, and that is the manager's job to provide players like him with more options in the final third.
I know that i maybe reading too much into this, but it sounded like a hint that we'll see more of Muller tonight. Not replacing Mandzukic, but playing in the midfield instead of Kroos. Imo Muller is the player who can win this for Bayern Munich. His ability to find pockets of space in seemingly overcrowded areas is impressive. He can offer an extra option for a through ball to Robben and Ribery and make the most of Mandzukic's strength in the air and ability to keep possession in dangerous areas.
Muller lurks in areas where defenders don't want to go, aiming to find space either between the lines, in channels or behind the opposing defense from where he can help his side move swiftly up field, or where he can look to shoot at goal or play a final pass. He offers a more direct outlet than the likes of Kroos, Gotze and Schweinsteiger. The only time the Real defense looked to have problems during the first leg was when Muller was brought on.
Another reason both Mandzukic and Martinez should start are set pieces. Real Madrid chose to give away free kicks in dangerous areas in order to break the rhythm of their opponents. I presume they'll do the same tonight. It's going to be close and Bayern need to search everywhere for the goals they need.
If that's the case, with Martinez as DM, Lahm as RB and Muller in the midfield,my prediction would be 3-1 to Bayern. I would also like to see if Ancelotti has a plan b if they find themselves chasing the game.
If its true Florentino is forcing Ancelotti to abandon his two banks of 4 to fit Bale in then Madrid will be in trouble. Bayern have too many bodies in midfield to go up against them with a midfield three. Muller will drop back, the wingers will come in, the full backs will overlap and unless Bale, Ronaldo and Benzema drop back Bayern will be able to outnumber Madrid, pen them back and then exploit their numerical advantage to open them up. The four man midfield offers less space to play through. Florentino should leave Ancelotti to execute his plan.
Nah, i don't think so. Carlito is better than that, we must not forget that he survived almost a decade of criticism and interference in his work from Silvio Berlusconi at AC Milan. I'd say that he already has a Phd when it comes to dealing with these situations. The most important thing is that his players showed in the first leg that they have complete faith in their manager's plan which they executed perfectly. He knows that, so i don't believe he gives a sh*t for what Perez says.
Hopefully Madrid lose with massive fallout between Ancelotti and Perez.
Forcing him to abandon 4-4-2 and pick Bale would be a good start.
Forcing him to abandon 4-4-2 and pick Bale would be a good start.
Good news for Chelsea and Mourinho: Cech, Hazard and Eto'o took part in a training session ahead of tomorrow's game against Atletico Madrid.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ahead-of-Atletico-tie-despite-shoulder-injury
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ahead-of-Atletico-tie-despite-shoulder-injury
Just rumours (though Diego Torres is usually reliable, right? Unless I'm getting him mixed up), but it adds an interesting layer to my post in La Liga thread last week - I said then that I'd be concerned if I was a Real Madrid fan about Ancelotti saying that if Bale is fit for the game he'll play and they'll go back to 4-3-3. So yeah, whether it's a forced move or not I think it could* cost them because I don't think they need to take a risky approach with their 1 goal advantage. As Raul Madrid said though no matter what formation is used the most important thing is how their players work for the team and follow instructions.
*Being the key word.
HALA MADRID, HALA GHOENALDOE.
This game today can go either way. We (Bayern) could walk directly into their knife and get knocked out after a few counter attacks. But i also can see us going out all guns blazing and ripping Real apart like Dortmund did.
Will be an exciting game, that's for sure (unless Real scores 2 early goals).
Will be an exciting game, that's for sure (unless Real scores 2 early goals).
This better not be true. If so how stupid is perez? I cant believe he thinks he is smarter than the coach (if this is true that is).
Have you forgotten how his Presidency ended last time around?
To be honest, i already believed last week that Bale was fit but it was an tactical decision not to play him from the beginning to make the defense stronger. But to not weaken the player just tell the media he's not fit.