City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[Lastwolf]

Wondering why Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle are backing City? Because they could be next for punishment under profit and sustainability rules

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Follow the money, it's pretty clear why.

Newcastle are Saudi owned
Chelsea are owned by Clearlake Capital, which has recieved/manages investments from the Saudi PIF (billions)
Villa is owned by two billionares, who isn't these days, so that's a bit more of logical leap over the above.

But obviously these owners would quite like to pump money into their clubs, over and above what they currently are, all three are on track to breach PSR this season according to reports.

If City get away with no punishment, expect "Oil Derricks R us" to sponsor all three to the tune of 300m a season by the following Monday.

 

[Charrockero]

This is a bizarre little post.

Really?
Maybe what is bizarre is that SuperLeague was seen as the worst thing to ever to happen to Football but the Premier League, on the other hand, already has VAR "deficiencies", several FFP violations, monopoly from Oil Clubs, sportswashing and a dubious implementation of their statutes. 115 charges have been issued but none have been answered, actually it seems all this time has passes just to give City time to manipulate the rules that have indicted them.

Worst, fans in England whom supposedly love Premier League have made nothing to protest against such things, actually they seem quite well with that.

It is also very bizarre and ironical that in the thread related to Real Madrid success, that most of the fanbase of this Forum seem to concur that Florentino Perez is an excellent chairman and some people ask how has he managed to obtain such achievements, when he was the mastermind behind "Football's worst nightmare".

I just write this to entertain myself, take it as that, but please just look at how much damage teams like City have inflicted, and probably Newcastle will do eventually.

 

[Charrockero]

Trying and doing is different.

Which club do you support? I suspect you are in favour of the Super League then.

Regrettably I think it's too late. I did my predictions some years ago that clubs, leagues and federations will eventually break away from FIFA/UEFA.

As it says in my profile, I support Chivas de Guadalajara from Mexico. Although in international stage I like United, their fanbase and this forum's objectivity, that's why I'm here.

 

[astracrazy]

Wondering why Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle are backing City? Because they could be next for punishment under profit and sustainability rules

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To be fair Villa were the only ones I questioned

 

[alexthelion]

Financial Fair Play, that stops spending and growing whilst keeping the turnover for the top 6 artificially high. My sentence on a wage cap and salary cap would be true FFP. For example, all teams can spend the same, or spend the turnover of the largest club turnover.

If you think FFP stops the bigger clubs, that’s madness, it locks their turnover in at 2/3 times the competition hence the one sided top 4 positions(only Everton Leicester Newcastle Villa been in sparingly) and the trophy wins of the last 30 years. FA Cup winners old top 4 clubs repeatedly + Everton(points deduction) Wigan(relegated) Portsmouth(relegated + points deduction) + Leicester(relegated+ 2 point deductions incoming + prior FFP fine) and City(huge investment 115 charges) see a pattern here!? pure protectionism.

Everton have had to sell their best players below market value, lost their position from 5th to 8th in and around Europe to fighting relegation. And then deducted 8 points to boot and now you want Branthwaite on the cheap to meet FFP. When the new stadium comes with increased turnover and with a rich benefactor we could be right up there, hence the coming after us.

I look at City’s case like this, if the current FFP rules protect position and turnover the only way round that is a rich owner which is not allowed. So the only way anyone can progress is a rich owner(based on last 30 years) if City win the case rich owners become a possibility. Hence support for them, unless a more equitable solution is put forward.

People saying Arsenal, Liverpool and United will protect the football pyramid whilst they are cancelling cup replays etc are frankly deluded. I don’t want a league where Nike sponsor determines the winner any more than a state owner club ploughing money in.

Also Net spend is just a measure of players brought in and out, however much City have “cheated” if they have, they still spent 4th on players in the last 8 years or so. Also factor in wages. In the end, net player spend + wages = final position and trophies, almost with a 1-1 correlation over time so it is very relevant. You could also argue rigging the rules in your favour via threats to leave is “cheating”

 

[Sandikan]

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Explains the stance of certain clubs

We should definitely be having a sniff round some of those clubs.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It’s funny how English made this huge protests over SuperLeague but are happy to stay on their couches now that City is literally trying to takeover the PL and make their own rules . “Football is for the fans”

I think most just don’t understand the extent of the cheating and, importantly, look at the difference in media coverage and influential people like G Nev, the ultimate shill, saying nada on this.

 

[Sandikan]

It’s funny how English made this huge protests over SuperLeague but are happy to stay on their couches now that City is literally trying to takeover the PL and make their own rules . “Football is for the fans”

2 different things really.

What City is doing is obviously dreadful for the top end of the league, but probably makes zero difference to half the league and even less to the rest of the football league.

A super league cherry picking the biggest out of the Premier league, into a system with no relegations would utterly ravage the dream of making it to the big league - a dream that is still almost impossible for most clubs, but is still a possibility as it stands.

 

[the_cliff]

I think most just don’t understand the extent of the cheating and, importantly, look at the difference in media coverage and influential people like G Nev, the ultimate shill, saying nada on this.

I think people are also waiting on the outcome. I mean the PL has charged them with 115 charges, it's not like nothing is happening.

If they get off scot free we could see a lot of protests and public pressure.

 

[El Zoido]

2 different things really.

What City is doing is obviously dreadful for the top end of the league, but probably makes zero difference to half the league and even less to the rest of the football league.

A super league cherry picking the biggest out of the Premier league, into a system with no relegations would utterly ravage the dream of making it to the big league - a dream that is still almost impossible for most clubs, but is still a possibility as it stands.

I mean it’s similar, since it’s virtually impossible to compete long term in the premier league now unless your club is bought by a country with a bottomless pit of money. Everyone else is just making up the numbers.

 

[alexthelion]

The cartel introduced 5 subs, scrapping fa cup replays implemented rules to stop any challengers to them like Leicester Everton Newcastle Villa. No investment allowed restrictions.

Expanded the champions league, also trying to make it so if you finish out the top 4 you can still get in it based on prior finishes. Not to mention the super league. European coefficients, league cup draw fixing.

As for the comment on Everton’s spend look at net spend + wages the narrative around Everton’s spend is rubbish more than Bayern etc don’t make me laugh. So we signed a few bad players doesn’t mean we should have to sell our good ones below market value. It is also convenient for the cartel and a by product of their devious means.We’ve also took a huge hit in revenue due to all this FFP. Look at spurs Richarlison, Maddison, Johnson they’d never sign for them prices or for them if not for FFP.

Why the hell are we getting deducted points for building a stadium and investing in a team when our spend is way lower on players and wages than most teams? last 5 years net spend 17th. The only one reason is to stop competition. Want to build a stadium increase revenue and compete? back in your box!

In fact, if City / Leicester weren’t cheating Everton would have been top 4 and European places over the last ten years. I think you forget where we were under Moyes Martinez and not a small club huge potential. it’s only the last 5 years we’ve dropped out the top 8 with FFP direct cause + Ukraine war.

Look at the last 30 years league placing trophies won, v the 30 years prior. The spread of trophies and revenue over them periods. Then tell me coupled with the above something not seriously wrong and there is not a protectionist cartel! the evidence is overwhelming.

United’s position on this is: City spent less than us over the last 10 years, and a bit to catch up, wahhhhhh, so we want the rules fixed in our favour. Sorry it just doesn’t wash with me, you want to swap corrupt crap with corrupt crap for your benefit. The whole thing needs a massive reset.

 

[Sandikan]

I mean it’s similar, since it’s virtually impossible to compete long term in the premier league now unless your club is bought by a country with a bottomless pit of money. Everyone else is just making up the numbers.

But the point is you can get to the premier league, you can aspire to be top flight.
You have Brentford, Bournemouth, Luton, all gub clubs that were playing my boys Wycombe in league fixtures not long ago making it.

They wouldn't even get near a Super league.

 

[the_cliff]

But the point is you can get to the premier league, you can aspire to be top flight.
You have Brentford, Bournemouth, Luton, all gub clubs that were playing my boys Wycombe in league fixtures not long ago making it.

They wouldn't even get near a Super league.

Not just that, Villa are in the UCL this season (and deservedly so). I'd be embarrassed if as a United fan we'd still be in a 'super league' after such a dreadful season.

 

[diarm]

United’s position on this is: City spent less than us over the last 10 years, and a bit to catch up, wahhhhhh, so we want the rules fixed in our favour. Sorry it just doesn’t wash with me, you want to swap corrupt crap with corrupt crap for your benefit. The whole thing needs a massive reset.

I missed the stories about United taking the league to court to ask for rules fixed in our favour. Can you point me in the right direction?

I agree with the whole thing needing a massive reset. A reset with state owned clubs kicked out and explicit controls regarding who can own an English football club put in place.

In 2003/03, ten years after the Premier League was created and after ten years of relative domination by United - the difference between total spend (transfers and wages) at the top of the table and the bottom half was roughly £300m. That's the total spend over a decade between clubs like United, Liverpool, Chelsea versus clubs like West Ham, Middlesbrough and Blackburn.

Today that difference is close to £6bn.

People want us to believe it's a "cartel" of the established elite that is the problem, but Manchester United was the richest club in the world and dominated England for close to two decades without ever creating a financial gap like we see today. The top 2 which at various stages contained Leeds, Villa, Blackburn, Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea, eventually became a top 4, and then a Big 6 and now suddenly a "cartel". As if sides haven't broken in and then out of contention over time.

City and their paid for friends in the media are very clever at setting an agenda for themselves, and painting United, Liverpool and Arsenal as the problem is an easy thing for fans who grew up watching their clubs get beat by our teams to swallow. But it's like the Tories blaming the results of their corrupt policies on immigrants - a red herring designed to take the heat off themselves. It doesn't measure up to reality.

It is harder to break into and then remain at the top nowadays, but that is a result of what City (on book and off book) and to a lesser extent Chelsea have done over the past 10 - 15 years. United have spent to try and compete, often unsuccessfully - but we are one of the few clubs in a position to even try. What City and the likes have done is far worse on the smaller clubs trying to make their way.

 

[stevoc]

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The sheer fact that the British government have had talks about a football clubs cheating with another soverign state that own said football club. Should in and of itself highlight why nation fecking states shouldn't be allowed to own English clubs.

 

[ArtetasHair]

City’s net spend since pep took over is 4th. At the end of the day given United’s net spend they should have done better.

Arsenal, Liverpool and United have all wrangled the FFP rules to their own advantage(amongst other things, e.g. cup rules) , whilst hiding behind sponsors from unethical companies with sweat shops / funding terrorists etc. Then cry foul because City have spent less(but more than you’d like) and dared to get into the self appointed elite. The only thing you lot care about is your position.

The teams in the league who are supporting City make sense to me. If you want the rest of the league on side introduce a wage cap and salary cap that is obtainable for everyone! or why shouldn’t we want to burn it down? the rest are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

Crying about your own position being taken whilst trying to pull up the draw bridge on everyone else is hilarious. Also Liverpool’s sponsor being linked to terrorism is a big deal, people cry about betting companies yet turn a blind eye to this it seems. Frankly, it’s all disgusting.

https://www.givemesport.com/every-p...et-spend-since-pep-guardiola-joined-man-city/

Yes, Arsenal have been illegally paying managers by shell companies like Mancini. Or illegally paying players via shell companies. We have also got 1000s of leaks and emails saying we have cheated the league by hiding sources of payments in 100s of millions.

We are the same, you're right.

 

[Sandikan]

The sheer fact that the British government have had talks about a football clubs cheating with another soverign state that own said football club. Should in and of itself highlight why nation fecking states shouldn't be allowed to own English clubs.

If the punishment is deemed paltry the other clubs should simply refuse to play until City are banished.
What could the league possibly do?they'd be finished.

 

[shoom]

Yes, Arsenal have been illegally paying managers by shell companies like Mancini. Or illegally paying players via shell companies. We have also got 1000s of leaks and emails saying we have cheated the league by hiding sources of payments in 100s of millions.

We are the same, you're right.

The thing I don't get about 'the cartel' (which I think is supposed to be Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Spurs?) is how we're not consistently outvoted by the other 16 clubs we're supposedly trying to keep from competing with us. There just seems to be some vague suggestion of a giant conspiracy that's yet to be uncovered. Deep state, Qanon, day of reckoning type stuff, utterly embarrassing.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

It’s funny how English made this huge protests over SuperLeague but are happy to stay on their couches now that City is literally trying to takeover the PL and make their own rules . “Football is for the fans”

We are 2 days in to finding out and the season is over. What do you expect at this stage?

 

[stevoc]

If the punishment is deemed paltry the other clubs should simply refuse to play until City are banished.
What could the league possibly do?they'd be finished.

I have a small bit of hope that the PL will ask the new government for some help with this in August.

City's owners have brought the game into disrepute. And the British government need to sort it out. City were bought while Labour were still in power after all.

 

[jasT1981]

To be fair Villa were the only ones I questioned

One of Villa's owners, Nassef Sawiris is from the Middle East. Egypt.

 

[duffer]

We should definitely be having a sniff round some of those clubs.

You need a CF and a GK, right?

Lukaku and Kepa for £75 mil. Get it done Sir Jim.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I have a small bit of hope that the PL will ask the new government for some help with this in August.

City's owners have brought the game into disrepute. And the British government need to sort it out. City were bought while Labour were still in power after all.

David Lammy to the rescue?

 

[Berbasbullet]

The cartel introduced 5 subs, scrapping fa cup replays implemented rules to stop any challengers to them like Leicester Everton Newcastle Villa. No investment allowed restrictions.

Expanded the champions league, also trying to make it so if you finish out the top 4 you can still get in it based on prior finishes. Not to mention the super league. European coefficients, league cup draw fixing.

As for the comment on Everton’s spend look at net spend + wages the narrative around Everton’s spend is rubbish more than Bayern etc don’t make me laugh. So we signed a few bad players doesn’t mean we should have to sell our good ones below market value. It is also convenient for the cartel and a by product of their devious means.We’ve also took a huge hit in revenue due to all this FFP. Look at spurs Richarlison, Maddison, Johnson they’d never sign for them prices or for them if not for FFP.

Why the hell are we getting deducted points for building a stadium and investing in a team when our spend is way lower on players and wages than most teams? last 5 years net spend 17th. The only one reason is to stop competition. Want to build a stadium increase revenue and compete? back in your box!

In fact, if City / Leicester weren’t cheating Everton would have been top 4 and European places over the last ten years. I think you forget where we were under Moyes Martinez and not a small club huge potential. it’s only the last 5 years we’ve dropped out the top 8 with FFP direct cause + Ukraine war.

Look at the last 30 years league placing trophies won, v the 30 years prior. The spread of trophies and revenue over them periods. Then tell me coupled with the above something not seriously wrong and there is not a protectionist cartel! the evidence is overwhelming.

United’s position on this is: City spent less than us over the last 10 years, and a bit to catch up, wahhhhhh, so we want the rules fixed in our favour. Sorry it just doesn’t wash with me, you want to swap corrupt crap with corrupt crap for your benefit. The whole thing needs a massive reset.

 

[diarm]

The thing I don't get about 'the cartel' (which I think is supposed to be Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Spurs?) is how we're not consistently outvoted by the other 16 clubs we're supposedly trying to keep from competing with us. There just seems to be some vague suggestion of a giant conspiracy that's yet to be uncovered. Deep state, Qanon, day of reckoning type stuff, utterly embarrassing.

Imagine how shit United and Spurs of the past 10 years are at being in a cartel!

You don't see the boys in Mexico and Colombia rigging the game so they can be the 8th best drug dealers in town.

 

[RedRocket9908]

The thing I don't get about 'the cartel' (which I think is supposed to be Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Spurs?) is how we're not consistently outvoted by the other 16 clubs we're supposedly trying to keep from competing with us. There just seems to be some vague suggestion of a giant conspiracy that's yet to be uncovered. Deep state, Qanon, day of reckoning type stuff, utterly embarrassing.

The Cartel doesnt exist, it was made up by City fans to justify their alledged wrong doing and has now been adopted by Newcastle and Everton fans.

One City fan claimed that everyone who is upset City is a fan of this completely fictional Cartel which is complete nonsence and that the current rules are preventing the likes of Villa, Everton, and West Ham from challenging but if the current rules prevent those clubs from challangeing then how did City and Leicester both manage it?

The truth is if City won tbe clubs above would end up much worse off than they are now as they would end up spending far beyond their means while getting no closer to challenging City and their unlimited transfer kitty.

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[Fortitude]

“Red cartel”

 

[tomaldinho1]

The Cartel doesnt exist, it was made up by City fans to justify their alledged wrong doing and has now been adopted by Newcastle and Everton fans.

One City fan claimed that everyone who is upset City is a fan of this completely fictional Cartel which is complete nonsence and that the current rules are preventing the likes of Villa, Everton, and West Ham from challenging but if the current rules prevent those clubs from challangeing then how did City and Leicester both manage it?

The truth is if City won tbe clubs above would end up much worse off than they are now

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Literally looking at a league table where two of those clubs finished above United. They honestly live in another world

 

[Sandikan]

You need a CF and a GK, right?

Lukaku and Kepa for £75 mil. Get it done Sir Jim.

Buying off Chelsea ever again should be vetoed. As should hiring your old managers.

 

[decorativeed]

“Red cartel”

I never realised when Chelsea and Arsenal were beating us to league titles they were trying to help us. I should have been cheering them on!

 

[Eplel]

Were they not aware of the rules beforehand?

I suppose Chelsea, who sold buildings to Boehly's other company and inserted recurring management fees in the contracts in order to inflate their income, was totally aware of the rules.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

What do City think will happen to the league if they win this? If anything they'll lose even more longterm if they win than if they lose, as will the rest of the clubs.

 

[Zen86]

What do City think will happen to the league if they win this? If anything they'll lose even more longterm if they win than if they lose, as will the rest of the clubs.

I don’t think Abu Dhabi really care much about competition in sport. That’s the real problem in all this.

 

[Rojofiam]

The cartel

United have 1 title in 11 years, Liverpool 1 in 34ish, Arsenal 1 in 21.

These three have suffered the most by the PL letting mass murderers and one Putin's oligarchs buy into the league.

But sure, the league somehow wants to protect the traditional big clubs which makes...absolutely 0 sense?

 

[rimaldo]

The cartel

United have 1 title in 11 years, Liverpool 1 in 34ish, Arsenal 1 in 21.

These three have suffered the most by the PL letting mass murderers and one Putin's oligarchs buy into the league.

you’re letting facts get in the way of their feelings.

 

[NotChatGPT]

I don’t think Abu Dhabi really care much about competition in sport. That’s the real problem in all this.

Harsh, they’re obviously doing this to improve the competition

 

[Rojofiam]

you’re letting facts get in the way of their feelings.

I'm not even surprised how they managed to get it completely wrong and believe they are the good guys in this, when that couldn't be further from the truth

 

[Top_Bins]

The cartel

United have 1 title in 11 years, Liverpool 1 in 34ish, Arsenal 1 in 21.

These three have suffered the most by the PL letting mass murderers and one Putin's oligarchs buy into the league.

But sure, the league somehow wants to protect the traditional big clubs which makes...absolutely 0 sense?

If you receive an invitation to an embassy, don't go.

 

[Zen86]

Harsh, they’re obviously doing this to improve the competition

True. They’re the hero we need, not the one we deserve.

 

[Amarsdd]

You need a CF and a GK, right?

Lukaku and Kepa for £75 mil. Get it done Sir Jim.

Lukaku is still at Chelsea? What?!