City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins September ‘24

Fortitude said:
There are plenty of questions about the fallout for city if the unimaginable actually happens and they are punished as severely as they should be.

Do they take all the hits and then continue to cheat to get themselves back to the top flight?

This notion of a player and manager exodus only happens if all the illegal payments stop. If City continue to cheat, they can pay the same players even more to be loyal to them; legacy doesn’t mean a damn thing to the majority so long as the compensation is right and I’d bet that if leveraged against 2-3 years of a career, players will stay exactly where they are. It only becomes an issue for players who can get their full wage elsewhere; someone like Haaland, for example can name his price and a select few clubs can consider the package, as mind-boggling as whatever he’s actually being paid by City is.

Don’t wish to get ahead of myself because I firmly believe nothing of significance will happen to City, but the aftermath, should it do, would be fascinating to witness.
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RE: some players staying

I think that despite being paid huge sums many players would leave, I don't think these players actually want to play in the 3rd tier of English football and it's not like Saudi Arabia where they will still be playing against a few other decent footballers.

Maybe Foden would stay and become their talisman.
 
All kidding aside with silly punishment scenarios but the integrity of the league really is at stake here. If City go unpunished whilst Everton get screwed over 19 million then the league will be seen as being owned by the likes of City. Again, it’s up to the media, the other owners, sponsers, politicians, and mostly supporters to make a difference here. In the States it starts by boycotting the sponsers of whoever people feel should be exposed. It does work
 
I reckon an important aspect to any ruling, regardless of points deductions, fines or relegations, should be to force the club to make its accounts visible to the proper authorities and meticulously scrutinize its income and expenses to make sure that it's actually operating under financial regulations rather than just taking a hit and operating as it always has to get back to the top.

Doing this may mean that any hidden or suspicious forms of income may be exposed and the club will be forced to reorganise its bookkeeping and possibly make cuts to some of its wages and staff in order to be able to properly comply with financial regulations.
 
City HAVE to be severely punished, otherwise it sends the message that you can cheat IF you try to hide it.
Being honest and open means you get punished.
If nothing is done, what’s to stop all other clubs making up sponsors and cooking the books?
 
Let’s see how much the main media outlets peddle this now Everton have been punished? Only ever seen to hear positive things about City and how brilliant they are.
 
njred said:
All kidding aside with silly punishment scenarios but the integrity of the league really is at stake here. If City go unpunished whilst Everton get screwed over 19 million then the league will be seen as being owned by the likes of City. Again, it’s up to the media, the other owners, sponsers, politicians, and mostly supporters to make a difference here. In the States it starts by boycotting the sponsers of whoever people feel should be exposed. It does work
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we’re always two steps ahead. go and boycott our non-existent sponsors. they’ll really miss your business.
 
Pexbo said:
I think it’s super important that they have their titles stripped during the period they have cheated.

Firstly because it is just common sense - those titles were won via systematic cheating. In what sport can you be caught cheating at all and retain your titles?

Secondly, they are building their brand on their success. If you strip their titles, they can no longer advertise those successes.
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There is legal precedent for teams to bring lawsuits against them as well for damages. United, Liverpool and Chelsea would have won the league I'm sure in some of those seasons. Then there's also CL places.

Could get very messy for them if found guilty.
 
horsechoker said:
RE: some players staying

I think that despite being paid huge sums many players would leave, I don't think these players actually want to play in the 3rd tier of English football and it's not like Saudi Arabia where they will still be playing against a few other decent footballers.

Maybe Foden would stay and become their talisman.
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Let’s say they get punted to League 1, you don’t reckon some of those players would stay for, say, double or quadruple what they’re currently on? I think the age of the player would play a factor, personally: very young or old, and they’d do two years, but in their prime years, it’s a bigger ask and sell. A player like Haaland would be acme acres gone like a puff of smoke, I think, but others? They’d have a lot more to think about and evaluate.
 
Fortitude said:
Let’s say they get punted to League 1, you don’t reckon some of those players would stay for, say, double or quadruple what they’re currently on? I think the age of the player would play a factor, personally: very young or old, and they’d do two years, but in their prime years, it’s a bigger ask and sell. A player like Haaland would be acme acres gone like a puff of smoke, I think, but others? They’d have a lot more to think about and evaluate.
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This is under the assumption that they're all being paid double their salaries under the table right?

Because, why else would a player play for City ahead of United/Liverpool/Arsenal with their vast history?
 
adexkola said:
This is under the assumption that they're all being paid double their salaries under the table right?

Because, why else would a player play for City ahead of United/Liverpool/Arsenal with their vast history?
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Right. Assumption. *taps nose
 
30 point deduction and 100M fine. Liverpool will win the league and City will secure champions league football by retaining the trophy.
 
Fortitude said:
Let’s say they get punted to League 1, you don’t reckon some of those players would stay for, say, double or quadruple what they’re currently on? I think the age of the player would play a factor, personally: very young or old, and they’d do two years, but in their prime years, it’s a bigger ask and sell. A player like Haaland would be acme acres gone like a puff of smoke, I think, but others? They’d have a lot more to think about and evaluate.
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Some would surely stay. But two years would put you at risk of missing on an international tournament, not everyone will be down for that.
 
I'm down with the fines, relegations and stripping of titles but, on top of that, it should be mandatory that Curly Watts replaces Pep. Anything less and what's the point?
 
Judas said:
Still don’t believe anything significant will happen to them.
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It is too late now, they are big too fail. Others teams were happy to take their money for mediocre players (Santa Cruz, Bony, Lescot, Rodwell ect.) so they shouldn't complain. You reap what you sow.
Happened with Chelsea and it will repeat with Newcastle.
 
Terrific Tangerine said:
I've got a suspicion the Everton ruling and severity of the punishment is to prepare the way for something even stiffer for city.
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Could also be a move to test the waters of legal pushback. If a legal shitstorm happens because of evertons 10 points then they might reel in a massive punishment on city and let them off with a fine or something.
 
Sgreddevil said:
I don't think that will hurt them much. At most a write off for one season and they can continue to cheat and win the premier league for years. There need to be a minimum ban from premier league eg. 3 years. If they can survive at lower leagues for the 3 years and comply with ffp rules, then theh are welcome to the league after promotion and fight on a fair ground.
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I'm thinking what is realistic. I think there is no chance of any punitive pushiments for them or for Chelsea. Now I think about it I think we may see them stripped of their titles so the PL can have an excuse for not banishing two of the biggest clubs.
 
The Purley King said:
One of the big clues in all of this is that if you could name any of city’s most important players over the last 10 years: aguero, de silva, de bruyne, kompany, maybe even walker (and I’m probably missing a few) , there has not been one single story about Madrid, Barca, Bayern being interested.
Clubs enquire to agents and agents say they are earning x and would need y to move on and magically interest evaporates. X is not that big….. what is published anyway, but in reality x is fecking massive.
More understandable now they are established but certainly not 10 years ago when they were just an upstart.
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I've always thought about this. Literally none of their big names were poached by big clubs. The club either willingly sold them or it was free transfer. Then again it's crazy that no player even tried to force a move to one of the Spanish giants. If true, the agents were complicit and had actively warded off other clubs in exchange for money. Only way it makes sense.
 
horsechoker said:
RE: some players staying

I think that despite being paid huge sums many players would leave, I don't think these players actually want to play in the 3rd tier of English football and it's not like Saudi Arabia where they will still be playing against a few other decent footballers.

Maybe Foden would stay and become their talisman.
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I think a large percentage of their wage will be related to bonus payments too, i.e. does a win bonus still count in the third tier? Would they still be paid a goal bonus in the vanarama (given they'd be scoring 8 goals a game, too)? Presumably there's UCL win bonuses, FA cup bonuses, etc etc.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Some would surely stay. But two years would put you at risk of missing on an international tournament, not everyone will be down for that.
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But there are also financial rules in the Football League and without the huge TV and prize money, City wouldn’t be able to pay big wages and comply with those rules ……… unless they were to make secret payments to the players!!!
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Some would surely stay. But two years would put you at risk of missing on an international tournament, not everyone will be down for that.
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There’s no doubt some would have a reason to leave, but the contracts some of them are on are going to go far beyond what they can get elsewhere and it’s a big ask to give that up. A really big ask. What I was thinking, from City’s POV, is loaning players out, Chelsea style for a period of time if they don’t want to let them go and the player has given an allegiance of sorts to remain under their employment. You’d like to think any penalty would prevent those kind of manoeuvres, but I’m sure City would be scouring options should the worst happen.

What’s also interesting to consider is City’s academy, which is just superb and a conveyor belt of talent. There’ll be a serious scramble for those players. What would be the incentive for those players to stay if not enormous sums of money?

GazTheLegend said:
I think a large percentage of their wage will be related to bonus payments too, i.e. does a win bonus still count in the third tier? Would they still be paid a goal bonus in the vanarama (given they'd be scoring 8 goals a game, too)? Presumably there's UCL win bonuses, FA cup bonuses, etc etc.
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Contract renegotiations ahoy.
 
MackRobinson said:
I've always thought about this. Literally none of their big names were poached by big clubs. The club either willingly sold them or it was free transfer. Then again it's crazy that no player even tried to force a move to one of the Spanish giants. If true, the agents were complicit and had actively warded off other clubs in exchange for money. Only way it makes sense.
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Until about 2017, Real Madrid and Barcelona had better squads than City; they wouldn't have been too interested in those players.
Then after that Barcelona's been broke since 2020 or so and Real Madrid haven't made too many signings.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
Until about 2017, Real Madrid and Barcelona had better squads than City; they wouldn't have been interested in those players.
Then after that Barcelona's been broke since 2020 or so and Real Madrid haven't made too many signings.
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Do you only buy players from teams who have better squads than you?
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Until about 2017, Real Madrid and Barcelona had better squads than City; they wouldn't have been too interested in those players.
Then after that Barcelona's been broke since 2020 or so and Real Madrid haven't made too many signings.
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I have looked at the rosters but I would assume there were players at certain positions that would improve Barcelone or Madrid. City already had a world-class squad at that point.
 
Juicy Juiced said:
It is too late now, they are big too fail. Others teams were happy to take their money for mediocre players (Santa Cruz, Bony, Lescot, Rodwell ect.) so they shouldn't complain. You reap what you sow.
Happened with Chelsea and it will repeat with Newcastle.
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You can’t hold that against other teams, that’s unfair
 
Fortitude said:
Let’s say they get punted to League 1, you don’t reckon some of those players would stay for, say, double or quadruple what they’re currently on? I think the age of the player would play a factor, personally: very young or old, and they’d do two years, but in their prime years, it’s a bigger ask and sell. A player like Haaland would be acme acres gone like a puff of smoke, I think, but others? They’d have a lot more to think about and evaluate.
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If they got relegated, I would assume most of their squad would be pushing for transfers. A big selling point to coming to City is playing in the PL and UCL. Relegation would force City to start from scratch.
 
Judas said:
Still don’t believe anything significant will happen to them.
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The more I think about it the more I believe this line of reasoning. The size of City, the tarnish of the reputation of English football, pressure from British lawmakers, and a drawn-out legal battle will see them given a slap on the wrist at most. The real question is the response of the other clubs to potential or enforced punishment or lack thereof. Short of the other clubs threatening to sue or to join the ESL I can't see anything stopping a very lenient punishment.

Sad state of affairs for English football.
 
Pexbo said:
Do you only buy players from teams who have better squads than you?
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Well that's the argument, yes, that RM/Barcelona/Bayern should have bought City's top players because they were cream of the crop.

Barcelona bought Suarez instead of Aguero. Suarez is a better player and an easier buy (Liverpool not being very competitive at the time). Real Madrid after 2013 didn't really want competition for Benzema so they didn't sign any top strker. Bayern signed Lewandowski on a free. Nothing too mysterious here.

Silva moved to England because there wasn't much interest from RM or Barcelona at the time, he was seen as inferior to Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Alonso. He was 24, so in a few years he'd be a 27-year-old playing for a big club and harder to buy than player of a similar age, like Modric who was "just" at Spurs.
 
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djembatheking said:
30 point deduction and 100M fine. Liverpool will win the league and City will secure champions league football by retaining the trophy.
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The 30 points wouldn't be any year soon. Klopp would be long gone by the time it happens. Obviously Pep too.
 
MackRobinson said:
I have looked at the rosters but I would assume there were players at certain positions that would improve Barcelone or Madrid. City already had a world-class squad at that point.
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There would be but once you consider quality relative to other players, difficulty in signing from a top club, etc. then it's probably not worth it.
 
MackRobinson said:
The more I think about it the more I believe this line of reasoning. The size of City, the tarnish of the reputation of English football, pressure from British lawmakers, and a drawn-out legal battle will see them given a slap on the wrist at most. The real question is the response of the other clubs to potential or enforced punishment or lack thereof. Short of the other clubs threatening to sue or to join the ESL I can't see anything stopping a very lenient punishment.

Sad state of affairs for English football.
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English football is already tarnished.
Just the same as Italy in the past and Spain for the last 20 years by the sounds of it.
The less said about FIFA the better…….full of dodgy people taking brown envelopes.
If we want to really do things right we have to come down on city and Chelsea like the proverbial ton of bricks.
I have no confidence this will actually happen though…….
 
MackRobinson said:
If they got relegated, I would assume most of their squad would be pushing for transfers. A big selling point to coming to City is playing in the PL and UCL. Relegation would force City to start from scratch.
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Don't you think an even bigger selling point is earning multiple times your declared wage?

It's more likely City, "treble-winners" don't have to pay new signings what they paid players during their ascension, but that's not relevant to those who are already there.

Bolded. It would depend on how many relegations, or the terms of re-entry to the PL, and also whether City didn't cheat again (imo).
 
If they don’t get a very strong punishment it is 100% the final nail in the coffin for the integrity of the premier league. If they get off lightly then the Saudis at Newcastle will do exactly the same, probably worse because they know there will be no repercussions.
 
Berbaclass said:
If they don’t get a very strong punishment it is 100% the final nail in the coffin for the integrity of the premier league. If they get off lightly then the Saudis at Newcastle will do exactly the same, probably worse because they know there will be no repercussions.
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Nah, they'll just pay them through the Saudi league first, then loan over what Newcastle need
 
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