City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
This investigation has been going on for four years right? That's around the time that Hart was pretty unceremoniously ditched by Pep...
Who we spent the money on is totally down to us. How inflated the transfer market is, is down in a large part to city, psg and chelsea. Chelsea never broke any transfer record, until torres broke the British one, but there spending in 2004 massively inflated the market, then city coming in and throwing 50m at defenders like its nothing, inflated it further. Psg signing neymar and mbappe totally fecked it all, but it was on that trajectory before those two outliers, football inflation has vastly outpaced real world inflation, and its in large part down to the oil clubs
Minor absolutely, I should have clarified, but when people say United only spent 1bn cause you did, thats the issue cause its completely unfounded. If you guys steam rolled the league it is what it is. Until we know the full extent of what we're guilty of, its rough to call. I agree correlation isn't causation but in same cases its so damn close it might as well be.
You steamrolling the league is a different discussion and its hard to know, exactly cause if Kun and KDB etc.. didn't end up at City, no one knows where they'd be playing.
Its too easy to say team x spending y, is why a has to spend b. The same correlation isn't causation argument applies I guess.
Pep's been at City 6 and a half years or something. Hart was the first one he booted.
You’re picking a strange hill to die on here mate.
Your opening line is a contradiction in itself.
The likes of City, Chelsea and PSG have massively inflated the market. Of course there’s other factors at play but going out season after season and buying 5/6 of the most expensive players in the world is going to have an impact on the market.
You did it when they first took you over as I pointed out and you did it regularly for the first few seasons of Pep until he got what he needed.
Again theres nothing that correlates that opinion. It general one or two outliers don't have a huge effect on the average unless its something like someone suddenly dropping 1bn on 1 players etc.. given the huge amounts spent everywhere by everyone.
Any chance they get points deducted?
It's in large part due to overall revenue in football absolutely exploding over the last 25 years. For example, Real Madrid:
Yeah, spent so much on Rio that we couldn’t afford his defensive partner and had to resort to cheap options like Blanc and Silvestre. Like we had a budget or something.
Almost like having a world class academy that produced players for over a decade freed up money from having to invest in those positions so we could spend money on a player like Rio every so often.
What stopped other clubs competing with us for Vidic? Evra? We had one expensive defender in a back 4 / 5 but it’s Rio being brought up like it was a constant financial cheat code. I’d put the cost of Rio / Vidic / Evra and academy graduates Neville’s, O Shea and Brown over any Chelsea defence at the time.
Without looking a the costs, I swear I’m not cheating, I’d say there were many more expensive back 5 /6 than the options we had there. Then we had fecking Pique come through for nothing with Johnny Evans right beside him. Add them to the cost going forward. I bet there’s mid table clubs with more expensive defences than that over the 4/6 year period. A bit longer even. The fecking Da Silva twins can be thrown in there as well. Smalling and Jones as well
But yeah.. Rio huh?
edit feck me SAF could develop a defender. That’s actually ridiculous looking back at it
We've never had one of the 5 or 6 most expensive players in the world ever. Maybe Grealish is there now? Or was last season but thats it. Just checked Grealish is 7th of all time.
Theres literally nothing in the data that suggest either Chelsea or City are bumping up fees.
Yeah you’re still obsessing over singular record fees.
I’ve just shown you the spend in the first three years of Mansour and how each summer you bought multiple players who were amongst the most expensive transfers in world football that season.
Even present day you have a player bought for over £100m (Grealish) and the highest paid player in the PL (KdB)
its cute that you believe this
Nice graph, thanks. And worth noting Sky don't televise La Liga anymore. So you can imagine how this has ballooned for the likes of, say, Leicester or Southampton in recent times.It's in large part due to overall revenue in football absolutely exploding over the last 25 years. For example, Real Madrid:
Which is primarily why VVD and Maguire cost the bones of 80m. Mid tier teams didn't need to sell their prized assets anymore (at least this held true pre-Covid anyway).
There has to be some kind of fairness in football which if we're honest there never has been, but I always describe the current situation at my own club and what happened at yours, as like the worst symptom of whats already been really sick.
Some people like to say its the disease in football but its not, its the ultimate symptom of a game that was canceriously unfair anyway. It works for them cause they don't wanna see how sick football was when they were the big symptom, but football is and has been systematically broken and getting worse.
It's in large part due to overall revenue in football absolutely exploding over the last 25 years. For example, Real Madrid:
That happending as well and was something I was going to touch on, but even then Madrid signing Ronaldo for 80m seemed more or less a correct value, it didn't send the market crazy or anything, but when city signed 4 different defenders each for about 50m, then it set that as kind of a lower price for players joining a CL club, it totally ruined the market. Football was trending towards being more expensive, both with the money in the game and general inflation, but it was still not going up that fast, bale signing for only 5m euros more than Ronaldo 5 years later, OK he wasn't as good, but his 12/13 season wasn't a million miles off Ronaldo 07/08. So transfer fees didn't go crazy despite revenues increasing by about 50% in that time, but after city and then especially psg spending 400m on two players, that permanently altered the marker
11 of the wealthiest 20 clubs in Europe or something are now English iirc, with clubs like Everton and Leeds (with all respect, above Ajax.) West Ham above AC Milan. Which makes our cheating all the weirder, given we'd very likely be top 10 anyway.
In this scenario City are COVID.
Not sure which illness is befitting of Chelsea just yet.
The huge amounts spent by everyone is because city started throwing 50m at above average full backs, clearly that kind of thing inflates the market. Look at football from 2008 to 2013 when the world record fee is broken, its barely higher and probably lower if you count the value of inflation, its only once city start throwing around massive amounts of cash under pellegrini to an extent, then especially guardiola that things go totally crazy, then psg even more change things up, if you can't spot these trends that's on you but revenues in football were rising for years and yet 50m for torres was still a British transfer record in 2010, it wasn't until the oil clubs raised the floor on players that the ceiling also got much higher. Obviously when you start paying 25m for average players then the value of top players go up, you start spending 50m on average players the value of top players go up, you think because city didn't set records that it didn't affect the market, but 200m for 4 defenders did more to increase the value of top attsckers than spending 100m on Gareth bale did. Even though none of those transfers were within 30m of what Madrid spent on him, it did more to change the market
Because there are poster literally implying paying x for y sets a new precedent.
And again theres nothing to back up City have 2 or 3 seasons of insane spending as having the effect on the market that tv money has and the explosion in top clubs revenue now its been mentioned already.
+1
Because you were impatient and you didn't want to just be one of the top clubs which is what would have happened if you just ran your club properly.
You wanted to be THE top club and dominate European football as quickly as possible , so you just cheated and sped things up. I can definitely see the majority of the cheating and dodgy financials happening in those first 5 or 6 years of the current ownership. God knows how much money the likes of Yaya Toure and Augero were making each week.
Again you are spouting an opinion as fact, theres been data brought into the thread by 2 people which correlates heavily with transfer spending and football inflation and you are ignoring it to say "Well I say because I did my own research" or "I think".
Its like a covid denier arguing his opinion is more valuable than the data. If you can't bring numbers you've got nothing only opinion and those who have brought the numbers are right.
Of course it does, if people start paying 40m for a guy who goes and sits on their bench, then who's going to sell a first team player for less than that or the same as that?
Given the way your ignoring data and statistics for your own opinion, I thought you'd be a covid denier buddy.
They are in denial for some reason
What data? The data that shows you as record spenders for the first three seasons under Mansour as I pointed out?
The point isn’t just about whether City inflated fees as much as it’s about whether they deserved to be able to… If they were cooking their books so they could spend more than they should have been able to, and then went on to be the bench mark of how much a competitive team should spend (or aspire to) then clearly that’s a problem that has skewed things for other clubs trying to compete with them…
Padr, you single handedly pushed the cost of a defender up light years ahead of any other club. Your defensive budget alone would make Chelsea wince
That’s your problem. If you look closely other teams spend is up because they’re buying attacker, wingers etc. you’re buying Mendy and Malanga.
No I actually addressed the data, the revenues in football increase by 50% from 2008 to 2013, the two times the world transfer record was broken, and yet the fee barely increased, revenues haven't increased by a further 50% since then yet the world transfer fee has doubled, the number of 100m players has gone mental, and it didn't from the period of 2008 to 2013, it's only once city and psg start throwing mental sums about that the fees go crazy. Obviously they'd have risen with revenues but more in line with how they did in this period, the British transfer record went up by 60% from 30m to 50m in that time, and since then it's doubled. If you're really trying to argue, that oil clubs have impacted transfer fees then there's not point in debating you, because your city bias is blinding you to an obvious truth
I'm also not doubting for a second we overpaid for defenders, what I'm saying is it didn't set a precedent for others to do the same. Thats where this falls apart, there is no data to say it did, not compared to revenue/tv money increasing player prices. I'm also not denying we spent some seriously stupid money (some of which on dross). I'm denying that someone can look at Uniteds spending and say "Thats Cities fault" given the changes in club revenue and money in the game now.
I feel like theres genuinely people on here who think if City, PSG and Chelsea weren't around, players like KDB, Bruno, Neymar would be selling for £40m. Its insanity given the money in football now.
Have City spend crazy stupid money? Absolutely, is that why other clubs have spent crazy stupid money? No. All the data points elsewhere.
And yet the club you accuse of inflating these fees have exactly how many of these 100m players? The curves on income and tv money in particular are very similar to transfer spend since the early 00's long before City. This exponential curve has been growing as such since the late 90's. Its been on an exponential trajectory since long before Abu Dhabi and Qatar.
Anyway we're going round in circles, whilst I'm fine with owning up to the fact we're probably going to League 1 for cheating, I'm not taking the blame for £80m Harry Maguire. Back to our criminal activity.
TV rights have definitely played a massive part though, and there's definitely a case that they've contributed more than FDI.
Both WHU and Forest had net spends of almost 150m last summer. Players like Gibbs-White go for 30m now, and that's more down to mid level clubs being flush with cash and not what PSG paid for Neymar, nor City for Laporte or Dias or whoever.
You're still missing the point, once average defenders are going for 30m then good defenders go for 50m and great defenders for 70m, even if you don't buy a single 70m pound players buying 3 or 4 much worse players for 50m sets a new market value.
It's like property, as basic example let's say people in the UK are buying and selling houses solely to live in, suddenly a foreign investment company comes in, they decide they're going to start buying 1 bedroom houses for 10,000 more than the current rate so they can rent them out. If they buy tens of thousands of these properties, even though they never buy a property with 2 bedrooms that are more expensive than the 2 bedroom properties even with the extra 10,000 pounds on it doesn't matter because once people see smaller, less valuable properties going for 10,000 more than they used to, they're no longer willing to sell their two bedroom properties at the old rate, because the whole market has risen in value.
Do you understand?
Of course tv rights have played a big part but in the post I quoted Madrid revenues rose by 50% from 2008 to 2013, yet xabi alonso and modric were bought for around the same price, Ronaldo and bale were bought for around the same price, money had risen significantly in football in those 5 years, in tv rights and the like, but values did not skyrocket, they increased of course, but it was the oil clubs throwing money about that sparked the flames, the tv rights contributed, but increased revenues weren't having that effect until city and psg started going mental
I thought he dumped him because he became shit overnight
But jokes aside I reckon if there was an informer/whistleblower then it was probably one of the clubs accountants. I dont imagine a player having access to the kind of information other than locker room gossip.
Unless it was common knowledge internally in which case the gall of it is even more staggering.....
They think they are above the rules, its reprehensible how they behave. I cannot fathom how they could be allowed to get away with this.
And if indeed City try to 'tie this up in the courts', give them a transfer embargo until the case is settled. Similar to someone being held on bail with restrictions.
They have taken an axe to integrity in English football and they are still playing the victims.
Wow, so theocratic dictators didnt play by the rules and thought they could get on the cheat. feck off.
Relegate these filthy shits
And if indeed City try to 'tie this up in the courts', give them a transfer embargo until the case is settled. Similar to someone being held on bail with restrictions.
They have taken an axe to integrity in English football and they are still playing the victims.
Wow, so theocratic dictators didnt play by the rules and thought they could get on the cheat. feck off.
Relegate these filthy shits
I thought he dumped him because he became shit overnight
But jokes aside I reckon if there was an informer/whistleblower then it was probably one of the clubs accountants. I dont imagine a player having access to the kind of information other than locker room gossip.
Unless it was common knowledge internally in which case the gall of it is even more staggering.....
A whistle-blower doesn't have to provide all the information, he can simply alert the authorities to a potential problem, one player who has been paid under the table or knows other players are getting paid under the table could tip-off the authorities who have the resources and skills to actually investigate