SAF broke the British transfer record seven times during his time at United.
1989: Pallister – £2.9m
1993: Keane – £3.75m
1995: Cole – £7m
2001: Van Nistelrooy – £19m
2001: Veron – £28.1m
2002: Ferdinand – £29.1m
2008: Berbatov – £30.75m
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
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1989: Pallister – £2.9m
1993: Keane – £3.75m
1995: Cole – £7m
2001: Van Nistelrooy – £19m
2001: Veron – £28.1m
2002: Ferdinand – £29.1m
2008: Berbatov – £30.75m
I don’t think that’s relevant to what I said?
It probably is.
When the EPL was formed the top spending club was spending in a season what one decent player costs now, breaking transfer records tends to inflate the whole market.
United have been the biggest spenders in the EPL on five occasions, Chelsea I think are top with nine seasons, now closely followed by City, all paying inflated prices for some average players.
Hence if clubs want to get to the top and have the money to spend, and are allowed to spend it without question and frequent checks, it breeds corruption and rule breaking.
It happens in every (most) sports until retrospective punishment is administered, an athlete is found out to be cheating in one way or another, an inquiry is held, and in most cases is stripped of the rewards, he/she is just an individual.
The sport most akin to the EPL is football, all of the big five teams have been caught "cheating" in some way or another, have any of them been thrown out of the sport?
F1 needs the likes of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren more than they need F1.
The same goes for the EPL, we shall have to wait until at least December to find out.
The monetisation of Football began in 1983 when Spurs became the first club to float on the stock market years before we did and 10 years before our first Premier League title, when it came to the formation of the Premier League Sky TV throwing money at it and elevating it to a whole new level was down to Spurs again who's then Chairman Lord Alan Sugar alledgedly used his contacts and pull at Sky (aquired from the fact he owned Amstrad the company that made all of Sky's Decoder boxes) to encourage them to make a bid for the TV rights that would blow an offer that had been accepted from ITV out of the water.
I'd totally forgotten about this, and nver formed the financial link between Sugar and Sky, when you think about it, Sugar would ultimately benefit with the massive increase in sales of his Sky boxes.
I'd always blamed the downfall of football as a working mans game on Sky, but never thought of Sugars role in that.
Yeah, the ball bag faced cnut has always been a slimy, self serving Spurs fan.
Karma has well and truly kept Spurs and his face from ever winning anything
Rather a kangaroo than an ostrich, your head must be deep in the sand.
Yet spent less than other clubs almost every year, because we invested heavily in our academy and had a great manager. This is false equivalence to City cheating.
What point does that even make? We didnt break any rules?
7 out of 26 years. That's 27% of the time. For the biggest club in England and maybe the world, that's not a lot. It's like once in every 4 transfer windows. Where United were successful was through their academy. I don't need to list the quality that's come through there. United also made a huge amount of money by selling academy players. A million here and a million there adds up over time when it costs very little in the first place to produce them. We have had a youth player from the academy in every single matchday squad for 85 years in a row. Stuff like that made our identity and that's what Manchester United is. Building up the youth is what makes us successful.
I don't see what that stat has to do with City breaking over 100 FFP rules. United never broke any rules in signing those players.
What relevance does this have? We didn't break any rules and we earned that money to buy those players fair and square.
The only "cheat code" we had was our GOAT manager, our shrewd buying and selling policy, and our excellent academy.
What do you mean gifted? City are cheats. If they're punished this season we rightfully get the top spot as we are the second best side (hopefully).
Or do you mean if we are 6 points behind them after 20 games and they are docked points according to you we shouldn't get anything? How does that even make sense.
Arsenal fans used to complain about City's cheating since 2010s and would get told to shut up and stop making excuses as United were still winning something. I still remember this.
This argument is so stupid. When you go to the grocery store, the amount you have to pay is not based on the single most expensive item. It's the entirety of the bill.
United very, very rarely outspent the rest of the league each year. In fact, across the decade of the 90's, Liverpool spent more, and I think Spurs were close too.
You'd have a stronger argument if you looked at wages, where United was almost always towards the top if not the highest.
As to the City thing: it doesn't even matter how much they spent - it's all about the fact they signed up to a set of rules and then deliberately, systematically broke them over the course of many seasons, and then lied about it, and now are trying to lawyer their way out of it.
But it's entirely natural - how many of the ruling elite from the Emirates do you think actually have to deal with laws? Those don't apply to people like them. And this attitude pervades.
Sorry probably should have used a different word. You would absolutely deserve the title if 2nd this season and you deserve the last two as well. What I was trying to get across is that Liverpool and Utd also deserve 3 each but if City only get one season of docked points only Arsenal would benefit.
His point is laid out very clearly and if you didn't start typing nervously as soon as you saw the word "Arsenal" you'd understand it - yes it would be fair for you to get the title this year, but City are being judged for actions since 2008, so if it's a points deduction for this season, how does that make sense for the past 16 years? What about all the other clubs that were cheated by City?
This didn't happen, and especially not from Utd fans.
Exactly. We played by the rules. It’s only since 2013 that we’ve been profligate with money.
Still spending within the rules (except for the minor FFP breach a few years ago).
Exactly. Yet people accuse us of being hypocrites.
I can see my argument has gone right over a lot of peoples heads.
If you cannot see the link between continually breaking transfer records I can't help you. It's called cause and effect.
The cause is the desire to do well, the effect is to win at all costs (cheating), and hope you don't get caught out.
If you cannot see the link between continually breaking transfer records I can't help you. It's called cause and effect.
The cause is the desire to do well, the effect is to win at all costs (cheating), and hope you don't get caught out.
I'm struggling to see what you're arguing here. Are you saying that our success (in part helped by our financial clout) is the reason that city have been cheating?
In so many words yes I am, and again IMO it's borne out by the fact that it's not only City who have been caught out with poor fiscal records.
We don't yet know how widespread it is, and it's not only in this country, it's human nature, that if things cannot be achieved by fair means, some will attempt to do it by foul ones.
You may scoff, but in the realm of my business I have seen people get kicked out of tournaments for cheating.
Athletes have been banned for cheating.
All for the desire to win at any cost.
You even see men wearing medals they are not entitled to, all in the desire to be something they are not, to be admired.
There was a well researched and well documented thread on this topic a few years ago. United were rarely ever the highest spending club in any given season.
I think we can bin the notion that United outspent their rivals in the 90s as the basis for their success. It happened on occasion, individual seasons here and there, but not in the same way Chelsea did between 2004-2008 for example, which completely removed any notion of fair competition in the transfer market.
I haven’t seen any data on wages from the 90s and 2000s, so it could well be that United had a vastly outsized wage bill compared to everyone else that blew everyone out of the waters, who knows but at least in terms of transfer fees, United didn't stand out from the pack as an era overall.
By that logic, wealthy people are to blame for poor people robbing banks, because poor people see what the wealthy have and desire it for themselves. You're removing all responsibility from the one who is breaking the law.
So...are WE tha bad guys?!
Sorry, but surely you can see how nuts this 'logic' is, right?!
His position is tenuous at best.
United broke transfer records, but did so, as can be seen in the list, generally buying outstanding players. In general you can say the spending also inflated roughly inline with the increasing financial might of the game. That's almost true by definition because United were spending money purely generated by the market. In addition we didn't actually buy that many players, you look at the 1990s and early 2000s its generally 1 or 2 a year that actually cost anything. This was constrained entirely because United were a commercial entity bound by the market.
If any single club is to blame for the rampant transfer market inflation its Chelsea. It was Chelsea who came along and spent a fortune on both quality and entirely medoicre players year after year in droves; they signed so many players. They drove the market up then everyone had to match. However, the key difference is Chelsea broke no rules, City have (alegedly) broken the spending rules they signed up to. Everything else is a red herring. No-one forced Abu Dhabi to buy City and after that no-one forced them to spend that money and break the rules.
What’s all this bollox comparing spending with cheating? The club that used be Man City are charged with systematic breaking of rules and refusing to cooperate with the authorities
In my experience in retail, that is more than often the case in shoplifting, thanks for proving my point.
People rob banks to become richer, so that they can afford the things people who are better off have, have you never heard of the expression "Living off ill gotten gains".
How am I removing the responsibility?
Pretty much every fanbase of a Top Club claims that just as they all believe that they get the shitty end of the stick from referees.
It really hasn’t, it’s something a five year old could understand… and something that the same five year old would say “this is bollox”.
Because it’s bollox.
I swear some fans on here are long term sleeper agents.
So as the biggest club in England and the most successful for the last 3 decades are you saying United aren't hated by opposition fans and sections of the media?
Every set of fans think this.
You go to Arsenal forums we think everyone has had it in for us. RAWK we all know about. You go to Villa talk and it's the same there. And so on. United haven't got the monopoly on victimhood I am afraid.
Secondly it's been 10 years since you've won a title, in 6 years it'll be 16 years. The same amount of time for Arsenal when COVID began. People forget as time goes on and on.
You over estimate people's ability to remember Uniteds dominant period. In 10 years time you'll have 30 year old adults who've never seen United win a title as adults (if you guys don't win one). Just like Arsenal fans.
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Wait, are you two actually arguing against the fact Manchester United are the most disliked club in the country?
It doesn’t really matter if all clubs think their club is the most disliked. United are the most loathed club in the country period. Even in this unsuccessful era.
https://www.sportbible.com/football...-premier-league-study-fanbase-621480-20230324
You can find these polls in articles like this coming out every year. City could win the next ten league titles and it will still be United top of these polls.
@Ludens the Red you're correct.
Man United are, at the same time, the most loved and the most hated club in the country.
Man United are, at the same time, the most loved and the most hated club in the country.
Hated, adored, never ignored
What point if any are you trying to actually make here?
United are the biggest club in the country. By far the most successful in the last few decades. Are you seriously suggesting United aren't the most hated club in the country amongst fans of other clubs?
What relevance does this have to anything?
Not sure why you're posting in green emojis.What point if any are you trying to actually make here?
United are the biggest club in the country. By far the most successful in the last few decades. Are you seriously suggesting United aren't the most hated club in the country amongst fans of other clubs?
What relevance does this have to anything?
The relevance is that in 10 years time no person who's 30 will have seen United lift a title as an adult so this 'hate', as per you built because of United's title wins, won't really be there. As for my other points, my point was every club's fans cry victimhood, you're not unique. Some of you who post stuff like this have become a parody of RAWK posters, the same ones who were laughed at here in 2008/2009. Some of you are just short of sending emails to US journalists complaining about unfairness to complete the full circle like RAWK posters did.
No, they hate us more!
United were hated by opposition fans in the 70s and 80s despite not winnjng a title since the 60s. After 20 years of dominance that will be even more entrenched. Most football fans will know people who are United fans. With United being the most supported club in the country. That creates and maintains rivalry. Plus people don't stop being football fans at 30. So your point is irrelevant.
Arsenal not winning a title in 20 years is irrelevant to the levels of dislike for United amongst football fans. Arsenal were even that hated when they did win the odd title.
The green smilies is because you are spouting nonsense.