City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

Von Mistelroum said:
It's so sickening to see the cheating being allowed and largely ignored. Watching City win doesn't mean a lot, but the way it's happening and the damage it does to the game is awful to see. The complete ignorance of this while the likes of Neville get giddy over their winning is very odd to watch. It's like WWE where they just pretend things never happened.

Edit: is it paranoia to think that they just let Arse chase them to look competitive before turning on the style and their referees towards the end of the season?
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I think they bet on being able to put together a run in the second half of the season. So any inconsistencies in the first half of the season are not causes to panic, just part of the process.

And what Arsenal need to do next season is aim to convincingly win the first 19 games and put daylight between themselves and City. Enough daylight that City give up and focus on the cups
 
Fortitude said:
4 on merit would be one hell of a feat; watching Fergie's genius being shredded by a cheating juggernaut that is not going to be put in check is really depressing.

If that record was ever to be surpassed, it should have been to one incredible, legitimate dynasty - how storied they would be to achieve four in a row! - but instead, it is this soulless, artificial sham that you can't respect or acknowledge.

With the backing of a state, City might have got there anyway, but to know this has all been accomplished via cheating really is despicable.
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Exactly. City's success is entirely artificial and no amount of media fawning can make it real and authentic. Unfortunately, it’s going to gain them a lot of fans and make their success self-sustaining. Seeing them break our records is heartbreaking, especially because of how many people will view it as legitimate.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
The backtracking from Neville and co will be monumental.
If, and I emphasise IF, justice prevails, the journalistic traits of all the commentators fawning over City become null and void because they all know what’s been going on.
They’ve just been choosing to take the filthy lucre
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They won’t even backtrack, any kind of punishment to City and Neville et al will be on Sky calling it a disgrace and that nothing should have happened. Sky and its employees are all part of the entertainment machine, they’ll defend the system. City will just get a slap on the wrist and it’ll be forgotten about a week later and they’ll be free to get on with it.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Exactly. City's success is entirely artificial and no amount of media fawning can make it real and authentic. Unfortunately, it’s going to gain them a lot of fans and make their success self-sustaining. Seeing them break our records is heartbreaking, especially because of how many people will view it as legitimate.
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And while all this is happening, all the other clubs are still glorying in their traditional rivalries. Liverpool fans celebrate United losing to City. United fans celebrate Liverpool losing to City. Spurs fans celebrate Arsenal losing to City. Until everyone puts their rivalries aside to see City (and in time, Newcastle) as the enemy of all, traditional rivalries are the curse of football.
 
See in one sense I can live with it. Elite sport is cyclical, eras come and go yada yada.

I have family that support City and have done their entire lives. They are making memories.

But it’s so hard to stomach when you know how this situation has been engineered.
 
hp88 said:
About to win 6 out of the last 7 League titles, massive achievement but that's horrendous for the product the EPL are trying to push.
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United won 4/5 and 7/9 in the 90's, a couple of doubles in there as well, very unlucky in the 95 season, so it could have easily been 8 out of 9 titles and 5 in a row.

If we were more competitive in Europe / there wasn't a ban on English teams, it could have been success that will never matched.

So is this how opposing fans felt? We have the whole unknown element of the 115 charges, how it has been done etc.. but in terms of never being able to compete again, did others feel that way in the 90's when speaking of United?
 
On course to overtake Everton on league titles won. They'll be three away from Arsenal which is feasible to eclipse.

The PL are thrilled with City's dominance.
 
Just all feels a bit meaningless.

When Liverpool won the league it was genuinely a terrible feeling. City just feels hollow. They’ve cheated and everyone knows it. Their fanbase are in denial because they know it to.
 
eire-red said:
United won 4/5 and 7/9 in the 90's, a couple of doubles in there as well, very unlucky in the 95 season, so it could have easily been 8 out of 9 titles and 5 in a row.

If we were more competitive in Europe / there wasn't a ban on English teams, it could have been success that will never matched.

So is this how opposing fans felt? We have the whole unknown element of the 115 charges, how it has been done etc.. but in terms of never being able to compete again, did others feel that way in the 90's when speaking of United?
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Fair play good honest post and charges aside its probably exactly how I felt. You guys felt like an unstoppable juggernaut till Roman came along.
I think theres more drama with City even if there was no charges simply because of the rise of the internet etc... but while the charges are there, they're clearly a huge factor in all this.

People would probably feel the same about the state of the league without them though simply cause of state ownership and people are far more politically aware now than say when Roman bought Chelsea or even when the Thai guy bought City.
 
padr81 said:
Fair play good honest post and charges aside its probably exactly how I felt. You guys felt like an unstoppable juggernaut till Roman came along.
I think theres more drama with City even if there was no charges simply because of the rise of the internet etc... but while the charges are there, they're clearly a huge factor in all this.

People would probably feel the same about the state of the league without them though simply cause of state ownership and people are far more politically aware now than say when Roman bought Chelsea or even when the Thai guy bought City.
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Sorry if you've already said this but do you personally think City are innocent or do you think you're guilty?

I'll be honest I'm pretty much certain you've been cooking the books for 15 years, it's just whether the PL can prove it.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Do you personally think City are innocent or do you think you're guilty?

I'll be honest I'm pretty much certain you've been cooking the books for 15 years, it's just whether the PL can prove it.
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Guilty as sin mate.
 
Fortitude said:
4 on merit would be one hell of a feat; watching Fergie's genius being shredded by a cheating juggernaut that is not going to be put in check is really depressing.

If that record was ever to be surpassed, it should have been to one incredible, legitimate dynasty - how storied they would be to achieve four in a row! - but instead, it is this soulless, artificial sham that you can't respect or acknowledge.

With the backing of a state, City might have got there anyway, but to know this has all been accomplished via cheating really is despicable.
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Their egg stained support can celebrate another four in a row and another treble as much as they like (all four of them on Deansgate)…but what they will never have, no matter how much they crave it, is that glamour, aura and prestige surrounding the club. They will always be a state owned skid mark on the game with a shit load of trophies.
 
padr81 said:
Guilty as sin mate.
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I thought you'd say that as you're a good poster.

It's baffling that there are some City fans who think you're innocent. I understand if it's your team being accused of cheating the emotional response is to fight back and deny it but it's fecking obvious.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I thought you'd say that as you're a good poster.

It's baffling that there are some City fans who think you're innocent. I understand if it's your team being accused of cheating the emotional response is to fight back and deny it but it's fecking obvious.
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Did you see the city fan they had on the overlap fan debate the other day? He seems to cheer on their lawyers more than the team
 
They’ll over take our 13 premier league titles before we win our 14th. I can’t see feck all happening besides a massive fine and maybe a 12 point deduction or some crap. They aren’t going anywhere just as much as we are going nowhere. I hate them and as much as I hate some Arsenal fans I would have loved them to win it.
 
2 man midfield said:
Did you see the city fan they had on the overlap fan debate the other day? He seems to cheer on their lawyers more than the team
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I did see that clip actually yeah, it was fecking embarrassing.

The longer it's drawn out , the more City dominate and the more it becomes an embarrassment. We've got a team utterly dominant in a way nobody has ever been before in English football history, 4 titles in a row, and yet all the while they've got 115 charges against them and everybody fecking knows they're massive cheats.

It just makes a mockery of the whole thing.
 
James35 said:
They’ll over take our 13 premier league titles before we win our 14th. I can’t see feck all happening besides a massive fine and maybe a 12 point deduction or some crap. They aren’t going anywhere just as much as we are going nowhere. I hate them and as much as I hate some Arsenal fans I would have loved them to win it.
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That’s exactly it. There’s a very good chance that they’ll become the team with the most Premier League titles soon.
 
Pep fecking off will hurt them more than whatever points deductions they eventually get landed with.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I thought you'd say that as you're a good poster.

It's baffling that there are some City fans who think you're innocent. I understand if it's your team being accused of cheating the emotional response is to fight back and deny it but it's fecking obvious.
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I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admit what they think is truth and a further 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
You just have to look at the VAR thread and find all the "we're reffed different guys" if you think I'm lying... see those guys combine them with the Qatar ownership thread and you'll have quite the number to get started. People are just weirdly biased about football clubs, clubs who see them as nothing but statistics instead of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture they live vicariously through them..

Honestly the only thing that's really changed for me with City recently is instead of the one being bullied during football banter I'm the one doing the bullying. Truth is football is just a game to me, one I quite enjoy but just a game all the same (unless I'm drinking). I'll never understand people for who winning or losing makes or breaks their week. I've got too many more important variables for that than a football club (wife, kids, family, job, friends. etc...)
 
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It's probably going to be 5 in a row as well isn't it. There's absolutely no reason to believe that it won't be. As much as they are cheats, the mentality that manager manages to instill in players is insane.
 
Jacko21 said:
See in one sense I can live with it. Elite sport is cyclical, eras come and go yada yada.

I have family that support City and have done their entire lives. They are making memories.

But it’s so hard to stomach when you know how this situation has been engineered.
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And you have to think this "era" will only end of a) City do get punished or b) Newcastle reach their potential.

Either way all I see if City and Newcastle eventually on top for years until something gets done.
 
FootballHQ said:
Pep fecking off will hurt them more than whatever points deductions they eventually get landed with.
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Nah they were winning Leagues before Pep and they will win them after. This is not like Liverpool who will drop post-Klopp.
 
2 man midfield said:
Even if not by the league, then by the fans.
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This is also the thing. Your achievements are nothing if the majority of the followers of the sport know they’re bollocks. All you have is words written down but when everyone knows the truth they’re meaningless.
 
padr81 said:
I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admite what they think is truth and a futher 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
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Pretty much. We saw it during the takeover thread where United supporters who had spent years slagging off oil clubs suddenly jumped shipped as soon as Qatar was mentioned.

A lot of football fans are incredible stupid and can’t see beyond their own team “glory”.
 
Solius said:
This is also the thing. Your achievements are nothing if the majority of the followers of the sport know they’re bollocks. All you have is words written down but when everyone knows the truth they’re meaningless.
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Yep, it’s a bit like currency (ironically enough). We’ve all just agreed it means something - until everyone decides it doesn’t. The whole thing falls down if nobody recognises what you did.
 
LordSpud said:
Nah they were winning Leagues before Pep and they will win them after. This is not like Liverpool who will drop post-Klopp.
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It's the mentality though as one of the posters said above to be near perfect from February-May in league while juggling other competitions. That's just what Guardiola does.

They could appoint someone like Ancelotti and probably win another CL and domestic cups but I just don't think they'd be as relentless in the league under that type of manager, same with Tuchel.

As said before they had fantastic teams under Pellegrini and Mancini. Didn't reach 90 points in either season though and then a considerable drop off the next year.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Exactly. City's success is entirely artificial and no amount of media fawning can make it real and authentic. Unfortunately, it’s going to gain them a lot of fans and make their success self-sustaining. Seeing them break our records is heartbreaking, especially because of how many people will view it as legitimate.
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Heinzesight said:
Their egg stained support can celebrate another four in a row and another treble as much as they like (all four of them on Deansgate)…but what they will never have, no matter how much they crave it, is that glamour, aura and prestige surrounding the club. They will always be a state owned skid mark on the game with a shit load of trophies.
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If they are never officially done for the cheating, Fergie's records will fade over time as secondary to what we're witnessing. All the stuff he forged from the ground up, all the nurturing and development will go by the wayside as far as the history of the PL tells it.

Records come and go, and his being surpassed is one thing - passing the baton from one dynasty to another is how those things work - but to know it's all being pilfered by a cheating entity, and that history won't say a thing about that, is the pits.

I think this is where their cheating directly affects us more than any other club in the land because it's our records that are being lined up and shot down. All that graft and the stories behind it are getting scrubbed as if done so by a the next great team through the history of the league, which makes this so much more farcical. City have squatted and taken a great, steaming dump on the history of English football with the OK of those in charge who are eager to legitimise them, which is why this talk of punishment seems more far-fetched the more they win and the more it's lionised by the media and the governing bodies.
 
FootballHQ said:
It's the mentality though as one of the posters said above to be near perfect from February-May in league while juggling other competitions. That's just what Guardiola does.

They could appoint someone like Ancelotti and probably win another CL and domestic cups but I just don't think they'd be as relentless in the league under that type of manager, same with Tuchel.

As said before they had fantastic teams under Pellegrini and Mancini. Didn't reach 90 points in either season though and then a considerable drop off the next year.
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Oh also don't forget Pep has.. you know.. help ;)

Just don't be surprised when he goes if the players suddenly don't run as much, get more frequent injuries and start to show their age!
 
Fortitude said:
If they are never officially done for the cheating, Fergie's records will fade over time as secondary to what we're witnessing. All the stuff he forged from the ground up, all the nurturing and development will go by the wayside as far as the history of the PL tells it.

Records come and go, and his being surpassed is one thing - passing the baton from one dynasty to another is how those things work - but to know it's all being pilfered by a cheating entity, and that history won't say a thing about that, is the pits.

I think this is where their cheating directly affects us more than any other club in the land because it's our records that are being lined up and shot down. All that graft and the stories behind it are getting scrubbed as if done so by a the next great team through the history of the league, which makes this so much more farcical. City have squatted and taken a great, steaming dump on the history of English football with the OK of those in charge who are eager to legitimise them, which is why this talk of punishment seems more far-fetched the more they win and the more it's lionised by the media and the governing bodies.
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Well said.
 
Won the UCL the season they were meant to be banned from the UCL for cheating.

Broke the consecutive PL wins record the season they were being investigated for 115 charges relating to cheating in PL.

Cool
 
padr81 said:
I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admit what they think is truth and a further 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
You just have to look at the VAR thread and find all the "we're reffed different guys" if you think I'm lying... see those guys combine them with the Qatar ownership thread and you'll have quite the number to get started. People are just weirdly biased about football clubs, clubs who see them as nothing but statistics instead of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture they live vicariously through them..

Honestly the only thing that's really changed for me with City recently is inside of the one being bullied during football banter I'm the one doing the bullying. Truth is football is just a game to me, one I quite enjoy but just a game all the same (unless I'm drinking). I'll never understand people for who winning or losing makes or breaks their week. I've got too many more important variables for that than a football club (wife, kids, family, job, friends. etc...)
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This is exactly why I’m happy that Qatar were unsuccessful with their bid for United. Whatever happens under INEOS (although they are still a corporate capitalist bastard), no football club should be owned by a state or country. There are too many political factors involved, never mind the financial power.
 
eire-red said:
United won 4/5 and 7/9 in the 90's, a couple of doubles in there as well, very unlucky in the 95 season, so it could have easily been 8 out of 9 titles and 5 in a row.

If we were more competitive in Europe / there wasn't a ban on English teams, it could have been success that will never matched.

So is this how opposing fans felt? We have the whole unknown element of the 115 charges, how it has been done etc.. but in terms of never being able to compete again, did others feel that way in the 90's when speaking of United?
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Fair point, I think majority of rivals felt like they were going up against a team which they had no chance of beating but the difference between us and them is what we did was organic, in my eyes we won it clean.

Glad we never saw this but Klopp winning 4 in a row would have been easier to swallow for the neutrals.
 
padr81 said:
I'm not on Bluemoon. Someone did tag me to tell me their was a thread calling me a rag over there couple of years ago but thats about the height of my interaction with the place. I do occasionally browse it and have friends there but I like being in places where the debate is more neutral and for all my issues with the ups and downs of this place, it is about as fair to oppo supporter as you could possibly expect. I mean you guys even put up with Dumbstar. I couldn't see many City or Pool forums putting up with some of you guys the way you guys do with us.
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Not sure I'd call the CAF more neutral, the "debates" in the matchday and performance threads puts entrenched policticans to shame!
 
hp88 said:
Fair point, I think majority of rivals felt like they were going up against a team which they had no chance of beating but the difference between us and them is what we did was organic, in my eyes we won it clean.

Glad we never saw this but Klopp winning 4 in a row would have been easier to swallow for the neutrals.
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Not so sure about that, Klopp's one league title in front of empty Anfield was more than enough for neutrals to shallow.
 
padr81 said:
I see people say that its baffling about the City fans and it is to logical folk, but to give them a little defence, I can guarantee you if United were in this situation 70% of the Caf would be like that percent of City fans, theres 10% who admit what they think is truth and a further 20ish percent who deny them in public but deep down they know.
You just have to look at the VAR thread and find all the "we're reffed different guys" if you think I'm lying... see those guys combine them with the Qatar ownership thread and you'll have quite the number to get started. People are just weirdly biased about football clubs, clubs who see them as nothing but statistics instead of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture they live vicariously through them..

Honestly the only thing that's really changed for me with City recently is instead of the one being bullied during football banter I'm the one doing the bullying. Truth is football is just a game to me, one I quite enjoy but just a game all the same (unless I'm drinking). I'll never understand people for who winning or losing makes or breaks their week. I've got too many more important variables for that than a football club (wife, kids, family, job, friends. etc...)
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That's a fair point yeah and I agree.
 
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