"We dont need SJ to compete against city".
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
You think they spent only 1.7b
.Exactly. was just going to write that.
If these charges don't stick then Utd Liverpool and Arsenal need to come out of the collective TV deal.
That will change the landscape massively. The PL have to come down hard on blatant cheating.
That will change the landscape massively. The PL have to come down hard on blatant cheating.
Deloitte must have been bribed to make this assessment.
Or their CEO must have been tortured.
I guess there must be some youngsters dreaming of City but more than Madrid, Barca, United? Not even in Manchester.I don't think so. There are two arguments within the situation - one is that City cheated, and the other is that they way overspent us to achieve success.
The ironic thing is all it would have taken is a genuine audit of City when they announced the £400m sponsorship deal back in ‘11 (I think it was that season). Wenger called them out in public it was such a joke - imagine a manager commenting on another club’s sponsor valuation - because it was self sponsored, far too high and also they were able to renegotiate the terms in private whenever they wanted.
Super League without the state owned clubs is a genuine reality if they’re not punished which will be awful.
Man City being dubbed as the "most valuable brand" feels like an assault on truth itself in this world of absolute fakery and narcissistic self aggrandisement, and is particularly galling given their leaked emails. If they were sold today they would be a championship club within 3 years.
*applause*
That is the figure as per Transfermarkt. Do you have a more reliable source?You think they spent only 1.7b
Well said, it's so annoying when people are just glossing over the fact they've cheated for years. I keep seeing people say they haven't even spent much the last few years they just do things the right way and play great football.
And then you get the stupid argument "why shouldn't the owners just be able to pump in as much as they want its not fair"
Ohhh poor Sebalto.
First off: I don't like Manchester City and I think they are a, sportswashing, plastic club.
I do not know how many or which breaches they will be found guilty of.
I do know however think that they have been spending wisely (although spending a lot) the last decade and that they have been brilliantly managed. Spending a lot more wisely than us and managed a lot better than us. Our lack of success on the football pitch compared to them has not been down to them spending more.
Net spent the last 10 years (from transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 1.187M
Manchester City - 982M
Net spent for other top clubs in Europe the last 10 years:
Chelsea - 860M
PSG - 825M
Arsenal - 791M
Barca - 620M
Spurs - 475M
Liverpool - 381M
Real Madrid - 130M (!)
Net spent the last 5 years (from Transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 612M (Spending big on players like Fred, Maguire, Sancho (might still be a good one), AWB, DvB, Antony (95M !!!) along with some good ones and letting players like: Herrera, Pogba, Lingard (who was valued at 40M for a couple of seasons), Sanchez etc. run their contracts down or force their way out for free) Letting Ronaldo, Zlatan, Sanchez, Cavani, Pogba etc. totally blow up our wage structure at the same time.
Manchester City - 258M (despite transfers like Grealish, Haaland, Dias, Ake, Phillips, Rodri, Cancelo and Mahrez in, who were all "expensive" - The did good business with departures like: Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko, Danilo, Torres, Otamendi, Douglas Luiz, Diaz, Angelino, Harrison etc.)
We need proof to claim anything off the books.
We have bought short term "stop gaps" with high wages and expensive gambles while they have bought and got rid with more success.
I'm not a fan of a super league and I don't think City should be relegated, so if City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of I hope they get points deducted (around 30 points) and a minimum 2 year transfer ban.
Let's see how it ends, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them worm out of it and walk with little more than a slap on the wrist.
I do not know how many or which breaches they will be found guilty of.
I do know however think that they have been spending wisely (although spending a lot) the last decade and that they have been brilliantly managed. Spending a lot more wisely than us and managed a lot better than us. Our lack of success on the football pitch compared to them has not been down to them spending more.
Net spent the last 10 years (from transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 1.187M
Manchester City - 982M
Net spent for other top clubs in Europe the last 10 years:
Chelsea - 860M
PSG - 825M
Arsenal - 791M
Barca - 620M
Spurs - 475M
Liverpool - 381M
Real Madrid - 130M (!)
Net spent the last 5 years (from Transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 612M (Spending big on players like Fred, Maguire, Sancho (might still be a good one), AWB, DvB, Antony (95M !!!) along with some good ones and letting players like: Herrera, Pogba, Lingard (who was valued at 40M for a couple of seasons), Sanchez etc. run their contracts down or force their way out for free) Letting Ronaldo, Zlatan, Sanchez, Cavani, Pogba etc. totally blow up our wage structure at the same time.
Manchester City - 258M (despite transfers like Grealish, Haaland, Dias, Ake, Phillips, Rodri, Cancelo and Mahrez in, who were all "expensive" - The did good business with departures like: Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko, Danilo, Torres, Otamendi, Douglas Luiz, Diaz, Angelino, Harrison etc.)
We need proof to claim anything off the books.
We have bought short term "stop gaps" with high wages and expensive gambles while they have bought and got rid with more success.
I'm not a fan of a super league and I don't think City should be relegated, so if City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of I hope they get points deducted (around 30 points) and a minimum 2 year transfer ban.
Let's see how it ends, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them worm out of it and walk with little more than a slap on the wrist.
A newbie with 3 posts defending city on a united forum... this will end well
I stopped reading after, "I don't like City, but".
I can guess exactly what is coming. Something about how they're spending wisely now or something I bet? Sportswashing 101.
Everyone knows United wasted money in the transfer market for 10 years with Ed Woodward running things, that doesn't justify what City have done. You can't have 115 charges then say it's ok because United have spent more
Apparently it is, it's the constant argument that is brought up even though it's entirely irrelevent when considering this matter - the way they're run and they've spent their money has never been a topic of discussion, everyone agrees they're extremely well run, what is being discussed is how they got to this position where they could spend so much, and how much transparency there is to their accounting and dealings.
This.
I dislike City as much as any United fan, and nothing would make me laugh than seeing them stripped of all accumulated titles and kicked out of the league if that punishment was available, but this incessant refrain that they spent vastly more than United and Chelsea isn't true.
Very good take.
If it was after me I would want them punished even if they haven't breached any rule, but it's not my decision.
The reality is that many of our fans "blame" their success in the last decade on the fact they've cheated financially. I don't. They were just better managed from the board to hiring the best manager in World football and that's why they had success. They were financially doped even during the Mancini or M Pellegirini eras. If we had Guardiola as manager in the last decade I bet we would of been in their shoes right now in terms of trophies if not better.
Didn't PSG cheat they way in Ligue 1 by winning all those titles with Qatar money?
Would Chelsea be blamed of cheating if, after spending half a billion on players this season alone would have won the treble? Nobody talks about them because they're shite right now.
Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.
Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.
The "You really think it's just 1,7b?
" kind of posts without backing it up with proof, info or source is just silly and lazy.That they have more wealth than all of them, combined, and are thus untouchable.
There's a much stronger correlation between footballing success and the wage bill than there is between transfer spend and footballing success. City are vastly underreporting their salaries - and their wage spend is the secret to their success.Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.
Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.
The "You really think it's just 1,7b?
Wonder what the value will be after they are found guilty and are stripped of their titles and demoted
You wonder if the other big clubs will try for some sort of super league again with a lot wiser set up than was mooted before and shut City out of it.
I don't think matchfixing, going bankrupt or being put under administration can be directly compared to cooking books (if found guilty), can it? If City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of, they will be punished.
That said, I hope they are not relegated because that could have enormous negative ring effects that would damage european league football greatly, like the start of a europeran super league which would be catastrophical for the EPL.
My girlfriend uploads cat videos that get more likes than this shit.
I really don't know what is more disturbing actually. The "cat video"-likes or the "City eco brag"-likes - none of them good for signs for the human race going into the future....
Eh? I hope the other top clubs in the PL write to the PL and threaten them to join the European Super League if immediate and serious action is not taken against City’s 115 charges. And yes that should include relegation. If not, the PL can keep their fake valuable brand City while the other clubs leave the PL.
Super League looking pretty good now
A lot of people on this forum, let alone forums across the world, need to process this post.
I’ve not read through the thread in a while, but if none of the vocal detractors haven’t attempted to counter this I’ll be disappointed in them.
Have you seen any of the emails that were found? If you know what’s going on at that club then you don’t have to pay them on the back for a sterling job. They’ve benefitted from all kinds of corruption before you get anywhere near net spend and salaries. Check out the ex councillors on their board and what they were involved in prior to joining their board.Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.
Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.
The "You really think it's just 1,7b?
The emails released a few years ago suggested they had 2 sets of books. Mancini was being paid separately and that will account for some of the 177 charges, remember they managed to avoid FIFA punishment due to a statue of limitations, not innocence. So the 1.x billion is just what is in their published accounts and we have already seen evidence that they have another set of books....Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.
Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.
The "You really think it's just 1,7b?
These net spend figures are nonsence as they are based on what City say they have spent rather than what they have actually spent and dont include the massive agent fees, signing fees, and intermeadiary fees they pay, their are players in this like Haaland who will be counted as 51m but actually cost well over 100m and Alvarez who will be listed as 20m but probably cost closer to 50m.
I have read the CAS ruling a couple of times and it’s far from it being as most City supporters would have you believe Ie they were cleared of the charges.
I fully accept that I can only base my view on what is in the public domain but if and a big if the leaked emails are accurate the case being put forward namely that in respect of Mancini there were two parallel contracts within the city group
Bear in mind that the burden of proof isn’t beyond reasonable doubt it’s set at on the balance of probability.
So Mancini is said to have signed a contract with City and a contract with the other team in the group on the same day. The sums paid by City for him to be their manager ( full time ) was less that he was going to be paid for 4 day’s coaching a year. The invoices for this coaching were allegedly sent to City and it was them that paid . The signatories on several documents appear to be the same officials acting on behalf of two supposedly entities
Its a requirement that all sums paid to managers, coaches and indeed players has to be paid through the club’s payroll ( it can’t be delegated elsewhere
Then you can look at the image rights . Remember how they, City , sold the players image rights to a “ stand alone “ company ? Image rights form part of a remuneration package and have to be paid via a club’s payroll.
I keep reflecting on the comment made in the press which poses the question “ If city are so sure they are innocent why are they doing everything they can to avoid the panel to rule on the matter ?”
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No, I haven't seen the e-mails. I guess when all is laid in the table, we'll see what kind of punishment they'll get. Cooking books is serious and they deserve a hard punishment if found guilty.
I don't care about them spending money, the problem is how their owners got the money into the club via fake sponsorships, they're boosting the revenue to get around FFP meaning they have an unfair advantage over every other club that is following the rules
Agree. All this they have only had this net spend, this player only earns this rubbish. Their books have been well and truly burnt to a frazzle.