City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

Ignores a couple of elephants in the room.


MANCHESTER CITY NAMED WORLD'S MOST VALUABLE FOOTBALL CLUB BRAND
  • Premier League champions climb to number one position in Brand Finance Football 50 2023 Report
MANCHESTER, England, June 6, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Manchester City has been named the most valuable football club brand in the world. The Club has topped the Brand Finance Football 50 2023 Report for the first time.

The report details a 34% positive growth in City's brand value since the COVID-19 pandemic, with the Premier League champions overtaking Real Madrid for the top position. This is the first time an English club has held the number one spot in six years.

A decade of dominance on the pitch and the highest revenue of any of club in the report were outlined as key drivers for City's rise in the rankings.

This comes at the climax of a remarkable season for Manchester City both on and off the pitch. On Saturday, City lifted the FA Cup to complete a domestic double after winning a third successive Premier League last month. The Club will be looking to add more silverware to this historic season as it competes in the UEFA Champions League Final this weekend.

This season the Club has also topped the Deloitte Money League for the second successive year after announcing a record revenue of £613 million and profits of £41.7 million, the latter being more than double the previous Club record. It has also been a strong year for City's commercial portfolio with a number of new partners and long-term renewals announced across the season. City's retail operation has also continued to break records with incredible demand for the 2022/23 season kits and the most recent kit launch seeing a new shirt sold every 12 seconds on the first day of sales.

The popularity of the Club is also reflected in its huge growth and engagement levels across social media, most notably with City being the most popular European club on YouTube for active users and video views this season.

Looking to the future, Manchester City has submitted a planning application to Manchester City Council for the development of a best-in-class fan experience and year-round entertainment and leisure destination at the Etihad Stadium. This project would add a further £300m to City Football Group's investment and regeneration work in East Manchester.

Roel de Vries, Chief Operating Officer at City Football Group, said: "Being recognised as the world's most valuable football club brand reflects the phenomenal growth story that Manchester City has had in recent years. This achievement recognises the evolution of not just the brand, but the Club as a whole. The Club has been performing consistently and has broken records on and off the pitch this season, whilst operating in a way that promotes financial sustainability.
"As we look to the future, we want to keep investing in the right things – our football talent, the city of Manchester and our local community, infrastructure and fan experience. We have a proven track record of innovation and are excited for the next chapter in this Club's great history."
"We dont need SJ to compete against city".
 
Since Ferguson left we have spent £1.68bn, City £1.73bn. They have broken the rules, and they indeed should be dealt a severe punishment, but the fact remains that they have simply spent better than us.
You think they spent only 1.7b :lol: .
 
Same like UEFA, the FA/PL want to be seen they are actually doing something but lost in the court of law. Essentially they want to tell the world that the court is the problem and not UEFA or FA/PL. Pushing away the responsibility.
Exactly. was just going to write that.
 
If these charges don't stick then Utd Liverpool and Arsenal need to come out of the collective TV deal.

That will change the landscape massively. The PL have to come down hard on blatant cheating.
 
Ignores a couple of elephants in the room.


MANCHESTER CITY NAMED WORLD'S MOST VALUABLE FOOTBALL CLUB BRAND
  • Premier League champions climb to number one position in Brand Finance Football 50 2023 Report
MANCHESTER, England, June 6, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Manchester City has been named the most valuable football club brand in the world. The Club has topped the Brand Finance Football 50 2023 Report for the first time.

The report details a 34% positive growth in City's brand value since the COVID-19 pandemic, with the Premier League champions overtaking Real Madrid for the top position. This is the first time an English club has held the number one spot in six years.

A decade of dominance on the pitch and the highest revenue of any of club in the report were outlined as key drivers for City's rise in the rankings.

This comes at the climax of a remarkable season for Manchester City both on and off the pitch. On Saturday, City lifted the FA Cup to complete a domestic double after winning a third successive Premier League last month. The Club will be looking to add more silverware to this historic season as it competes in the UEFA Champions League Final this weekend.

This season the Club has also topped the Deloitte Money League for the second successive year after announcing a record revenue of £613 million and profits of £41.7 million, the latter being more than double the previous Club record. It has also been a strong year for City's commercial portfolio with a number of new partners and long-term renewals announced across the season. City's retail operation has also continued to break records with incredible demand for the 2022/23 season kits and the most recent kit launch seeing a new shirt sold every 12 seconds on the first day of sales.

The popularity of the Club is also reflected in its huge growth and engagement levels across social media, most notably with City being the most popular European club on YouTube for active users and video views this season.

Looking to the future, Manchester City has submitted a planning application to Manchester City Council for the development of a best-in-class fan experience and year-round entertainment and leisure destination at the Etihad Stadium. This project would add a further £300m to City Football Group's investment and regeneration work in East Manchester.

Roel de Vries, Chief Operating Officer at City Football Group, said: "Being recognised as the world's most valuable football club brand reflects the phenomenal growth story that Manchester City has had in recent years. This achievement recognises the evolution of not just the brand, but the Club as a whole. The Club has been performing consistently and has broken records on and off the pitch this season, whilst operating in a way that promotes financial sustainability.
"As we look to the future, we want to keep investing in the right things – our football talent, the city of Manchester and our local community, infrastructure and fan experience. We have a proven track record of innovation and are excited for the next chapter in this Club's great history."

Deloitte must have been bribed to make this assessment.

Or their CEO must have been tortured.
 
Ignores a couple of elephants in the room.


MANCHESTER CITY NAMED WORLD'S MOST VALUABLE FOOTBALL CLUB BRAND
  • Premier League champions climb to number one position in Brand Finance Football 50 2023 Report
MANCHESTER, England, June 6, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Manchester City has been named the most valuable football club brand in the world. The Club has topped the Brand Finance Football 50 2023 Report for the first time.

The report details a 34% positive growth in City's brand value since the COVID-19 pandemic, with the Premier League champions overtaking Real Madrid for the top position. This is the first time an English club has held the number one spot in six years.

A decade of dominance on the pitch and the highest revenue of any of club in the report were outlined as key drivers for City's rise in the rankings.

This comes at the climax of a remarkable season for Manchester City both on and off the pitch. On Saturday, City lifted the FA Cup to complete a domestic double after winning a third successive Premier League last month. The Club will be looking to add more silverware to this historic season as it competes in the UEFA Champions League Final this weekend.

This season the Club has also topped the Deloitte Money League for the second successive year after announcing a record revenue of £613 million and profits of £41.7 million, the latter being more than double the previous Club record. It has also been a strong year for City's commercial portfolio with a number of new partners and long-term renewals announced across the season. City's retail operation has also continued to break records with incredible demand for the 2022/23 season kits and the most recent kit launch seeing a new shirt sold every 12 seconds on the first day of sales.

The popularity of the Club is also reflected in its huge growth and engagement levels across social media, most notably with City being the most popular European club on YouTube for active users and video views this season.

Looking to the future, Manchester City has submitted a planning application to Manchester City Council for the development of a best-in-class fan experience and year-round entertainment and leisure destination at the Etihad Stadium. This project would add a further £300m to City Football Group's investment and regeneration work in East Manchester.

Roel de Vries, Chief Operating Officer at City Football Group, said: "Being recognised as the world's most valuable football club brand reflects the phenomenal growth story that Manchester City has had in recent years. This achievement recognises the evolution of not just the brand, but the Club as a whole. The Club has been performing consistently and has broken records on and off the pitch this season, whilst operating in a way that promotes financial sustainability.
"As we look to the future, we want to keep investing in the right things – our football talent, the city of Manchester and our local community, infrastructure and fan experience. We have a proven track record of innovation and are excited for the next chapter in this Club's great history."

:lol: I guess there must be some youngsters dreaming of City but more than Madrid, Barca, United? Not even in Manchester.
 
If these charges don't stick then Utd Liverpool and Arsenal need to come out of the collective TV deal.

That will change the landscape massively. The PL have to come down hard on blatant cheating.
The ironic thing is all it would have taken is a genuine audit of City when they announced the £400m sponsorship deal back in ‘11 (I think it was that season). Wenger called them out in public it was such a joke - imagine a manager commenting on another club’s sponsor valuation - because it was self sponsored, far too high and also they were able to renegotiate the terms in private whenever they wanted.

Super League without the state owned clubs is a genuine reality if they’re not punished which will be awful.
 
Man City being dubbed as the "most valuable brand" feels like an assault on truth itself in this world of absolute fakery and narcissistic self aggrandisement, and is particularly galling given their leaked emails. If they were sold today they would be a championship club within 3 years.
 
I think there is another factor to be considered when considering the likelihood of a decent punishment being handed out and that is the spectre of the European Super League.

What most people missed at the time was that the ESL wasn't just a cash-grab by the top clubs, it was also a reaction from the 'establishment' (Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, Real, United, Liverpool etc...) to the oil/state owned clubs.

Remember how City and PSG were so reluctant to sign up? They basically got put in a position whereby signing-up would mean accepting really tight FFP rules OR sitting out and no longer competing at the top level of European football.

We're going to get to the point whereby if City (and PSG) are allowed to get away with cheating, then the historical 'big clubs' will simply take their ball away - and the Premier League will fear this.

On another note, I was also disgusted that the cheating isn't/wasn't highlighted more. There seems to be this narrative that we shouldn't let off the pitch matters detract from their on-pitch success, or even worse, that 'all teams spend money'....but both completely miss the point.

First of all, the very simple and straightforward response is that cheating is cheating, and they have broken over 100 rules. If a cyclist cheats, they lose their medals and are treated as outcasts. If a runner cheats, they lose their medals and are treated as outcasts. City cheat and the response seems to be 'yeah they cheated but don't they knock it around nicely?'.

Secondly, and the more complex argument, is that people and pundits have short memories and they forget the sheer volume of players City have churned through to get to this mega squad of 23 clones, whereby they all fit perfectly into the system and there's no drop-off in quality when players are rotated.

To get to Haaland, for example, they went through Robinho, Tevez, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Bojinov, Dzeko, Balotelli, Aguero...and likely more I have forgotten.

You can apply that to every single position on the pitch. Don't let anybody con you into this narrative that they have bought well or been well-managed, they threw £3BN at the wall, some of it stuck and now they have the ultimate luxury of being able to plan 2/3 seasons at a time.

Therein lies the real advantage they have. Every other club, no matter how rich, has a budget. United are rich, but we have a budget. If we sign Maguire for £80m and it doesn't work, we can't just bin him and write off the loss, we have to try and make it work. Same with Fred. Same with Martial. Same with Sanch etc...plus each time we address a position there's an opportunity cost i.e if we sign a CB for £80m, that means we can't also sign a CF for £80m.

City have/had no such constraints. Don't like England's #1? Replace him with Barcelona's goalkeeper. Dont like him? Replace him with a £65m upgrade a season later. In the market for a fullback? Buy three, just incase one or two dont work out.

Simply put, they went on a spending spree the like of which has never been seen in world football and with that bought something more valuable than any one player or manager...the luxury of being able to plan two or three years ahead.

Pundits are dim and easily fooled. They will point to net spend/total spend and fail to see the nuanced difference between spending £1BN over a decade or spending £650m in two seasons and then adding a player or two a season thereafter.

I will always maintain that being able to spend big money is an advantage...but being able to spend 4x or 5x the average several windows running is the REAL golden ticket to almost guaranteed success. See also, Chelsea post-Roman.
*applause*
 
I think there is another factor to be considered when considering the likelihood of a decent punishment being handed out and that is the spectre of the European Super League.

What most people missed at the time was that the ESL wasn't just a cash-grab by the top clubs, it was also a reaction from the 'establishment' (Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, Real, United, Liverpool etc...) to the oil/state owned clubs.

Remember how City and PSG were so reluctant to sign up? They basically got put in a position whereby signing-up would mean accepting really tight FFP rules OR sitting out and no longer competing at the top level of European football.

We're going to get to the point whereby if City (and PSG) are allowed to get away with cheating, then the historical 'big clubs' will simply take their ball away - and the Premier League will fear this.

On another note, I was also disgusted that the cheating isn't/wasn't highlighted more. There seems to be this narrative that we shouldn't let off the pitch matters detract from their on-pitch success, or even worse, that 'all teams spend money'....but both completely miss the point.

First of all, the very simple and straightforward response is that cheating is cheating, and they have broken over 100 rules. If a cyclist cheats, they lose their medals and are treated as outcasts. If a runner cheats, they lose their medals and are treated as outcasts. City cheat and the response seems to be 'yeah they cheated but don't they knock it around nicely?'.

Secondly, and the more complex argument, is that people and pundits have short memories and they forget the sheer volume of players City have churned through to get to this mega squad of 23 clones, whereby they all fit perfectly into the system and there's no drop-off in quality when players are rotated.

To get to Haaland, for example, they went through Robinho, Tevez, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Bojinov, Dzeko, Balotelli, Aguero...and likely more I have forgotten.

You can apply that to every single position on the pitch. Don't let anybody con you into this narrative that they have bought well or been well-managed, they threw £3BN at the wall, some of it stuck and now they have the ultimate luxury of being able to plan 2/3 seasons at a time.

Therein lies the real advantage they have. Every other club, no matter how rich, has a budget. United are rich, but we have a budget. If we sign Maguire for £80m and it doesn't work, we can't just bin him and write off the loss, we have to try and make it work. Same with Fred. Same with Martial. Same with Sanch etc...plus each time we address a position there's an opportunity cost i.e if we sign a CB for £80m, that means we can't also sign a CF for £80m.

City have/had no such constraints. Don't like England's #1? Replace him with Barcelona's goalkeeper. Dont like him? Replace him with a £65m upgrade a season later. In the market for a fullback? Buy three, just incase one or two dont work out.

Simply put, they went on a spending spree the like of which has never been seen in world football and with that bought something more valuable than any one player or manager...the luxury of being able to plan two or three years ahead.

Pundits are dim and easily fooled. They will point to net spend/total spend and fail to see the nuanced difference between spending £1BN over a decade or spending £650m in two seasons and then adding a player or two a season thereafter.

I will always maintain that being able to spend big money is an advantage...but being able to spend 4x or 5x the average several windows running is the REAL golden ticket to almost guaranteed success. See also, Chelsea post-Roman.
Well said, it's so annoying when people are just glossing over the fact they've cheated for years. I keep seeing people say they haven't even spent much the last few years they just do things the right way and play great football.
And then you get the stupid argument "why shouldn't the owners just be able to pump in as much as they want its not fair"
 
First off: I don't like Manchester City and I think they are a, sportswashing, plastic club.
I do not know how many or which breaches they will be found guilty of.

I do know however think that they have been spending wisely (although spending a lot) the last decade and that they have been brilliantly managed. Spending a lot more wisely than us and managed a lot better than us. Our lack of success on the football pitch compared to them has not been down to them spending more.

Net spent the last 10 years (from transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 1.187M
Manchester City - 982M

Net spent for other top clubs in Europe the last 10 years:
Chelsea - 860M
PSG - 825M
Arsenal - 791M
Barca - 620M
Spurs - 475M
Liverpool - 381M
Real Madrid - 130M (!)

Net spent the last 5 years (from Transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 612M (Spending big on players like Fred, Maguire, Sancho (might still be a good one), AWB, DvB, Antony (95M !!!) along with some good ones and letting players like: Herrera, Pogba, Lingard (who was valued at 40M for a couple of seasons), Sanchez etc. run their contracts down or force their way out for free) Letting Ronaldo, Zlatan, Sanchez, Cavani, Pogba etc. totally blow up our wage structure at the same time.
Manchester City - 258M (despite transfers like Grealish, Haaland, Dias, Ake, Phillips, Rodri, Cancelo and Mahrez in, who were all "expensive" - The did good business with departures like: Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko, Danilo, Torres, Otamendi, Douglas Luiz, Diaz, Angelino, Harrison etc.)

We need proof to claim anything off the books.

We have bought short term "stop gaps" with high wages and expensive gambles while they have bought and got rid with more success.

I'm not a fan of a super league and I don't think City should be relegated, so if City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of I hope they get points deducted (around 30 points) and a minimum 2 year transfer ban.
Let's see how it ends, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them worm out of it and walk with little more than a slap on the wrist.
 
A newbie with 3 posts defending city on a united forum... this will end well

I stopped reading after, "I don't like City, but".

I can guess exactly what is coming. Something about how they're spending wisely now or something I bet? Sportswashing 101. :lol:
 
First off: I don't like Manchester City and I think they are a, sportswashing, plastic club.
I do not know how many or which breaches they will be found guilty of.

I do know however think that they have been spending wisely (although spending a lot) the last decade and that they have been brilliantly managed. Spending a lot more wisely than us and managed a lot better than us. Our lack of success on the football pitch compared to them has not been down to them spending more.

Net spent the last 10 years (from transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 1.187M
Manchester City - 982M

Net spent for other top clubs in Europe the last 10 years:
Chelsea - 860M
PSG - 825M
Arsenal - 791M
Barca - 620M
Spurs - 475M
Liverpool - 381M
Real Madrid - 130M (!)

Net spent the last 5 years (from Transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 612M (Spending big on players like Fred, Maguire, Sancho (might still be a good one), AWB, DvB, Antony (95M !!!) along with some good ones and letting players like: Herrera, Pogba, Lingard (who was valued at 40M for a couple of seasons), Sanchez etc. run their contracts down or force their way out for free) Letting Ronaldo, Zlatan, Sanchez, Cavani, Pogba etc. totally blow up our wage structure at the same time.
Manchester City - 258M (despite transfers like Grealish, Haaland, Dias, Ake, Phillips, Rodri, Cancelo and Mahrez in, who were all "expensive" - The did good business with departures like: Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko, Danilo, Torres, Otamendi, Douglas Luiz, Diaz, Angelino, Harrison etc.)

We need proof to claim anything off the books.

We have bought short term "stop gaps" with high wages and expensive gambles while they have bought and got rid with more success.

I'm not a fan of a super league and I don't think City should be relegated, so if City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of I hope they get points deducted (around 30 points) and a minimum 2 year transfer ban.
Let's see how it ends, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them worm out of it and walk with little more than a slap on the wrist.
Everyone knows United wasted money in the transfer market for 10 years with Ed Woodward running things, that doesn't justify what City have done. You can't have 115 charges then say it's ok because United have spent more
 
Everyone knows United wasted money in the transfer market for 10 years with Ed Woodward running things, that doesn't justify what City have done. You can't have 115 charges then say it's ok because United have spent more
Apparently it is, it's the constant argument that is brought up even though it's entirely irrelevent when considering this matter - the way they're run and they've spent their money has never been a topic of discussion, everyone agrees they're extremely well run, what is being discussed is how they got to this position where they could spend so much, and how much transparency there is to their accounting and dealings.
 
First off: I don't like Manchester City and I think they are a, sportswashing, plastic club.
I do not know how many or which breaches they will be found guilty of.

I do know however think that they have been spending wisely (although spending a lot) the last decade and that they have been brilliantly managed. Spending a lot more wisely than us and managed a lot better than us. Our lack of success on the football pitch compared to them has not been down to them spending more.

Net spent the last 10 years (from transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 1.187M
Manchester City - 982M

Net spent for other top clubs in Europe the last 10 years:
Chelsea - 860M
PSG - 825M
Arsenal - 791M
Barca - 620M
Spurs - 475M
Liverpool - 381M
Real Madrid - 130M (!)

Net spent the last 5 years (from Transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 612M (Spending big on players like Fred, Maguire, Sancho (might still be a good one), AWB, DvB, Antony (95M !!!) along with some good ones and letting players like: Herrera, Pogba, Lingard (who was valued at 40M for a couple of seasons), Sanchez etc. run their contracts down or force their way out for free) Letting Ronaldo, Zlatan, Sanchez, Cavani, Pogba etc. totally blow up our wage structure at the same time.
Manchester City - 258M (despite transfers like Grealish, Haaland, Dias, Ake, Phillips, Rodri, Cancelo and Mahrez in, who were all "expensive" - The did good business with departures like: Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko, Danilo, Torres, Otamendi, Douglas Luiz, Diaz, Angelino, Harrison etc.)

We need proof to claim anything off the books.

We have bought short term "stop gaps" with high wages and expensive gambles while they have bought and got rid with more success.

I'm not a fan of a super league and I don't think City should be relegated, so if City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of I hope they get points deducted (around 30 points) and a minimum 2 year transfer ban.
Let's see how it ends, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them worm out of it and walk with little more than a slap on the wrist.

This.

I dislike City as much as any United fan, and nothing would make me laugh than seeing them stripped of all accumulated titles and kicked out of the league if that punishment was available, but this incessant refrain that they spent vastly more than United and Chelsea isn't true.
 
First off: I don't like Manchester City and I think they are a, sportswashing, plastic club.
I do not know how many or which breaches they will be found guilty of.

I do know however think that they have been spending wisely (although spending a lot) the last decade and that they have been brilliantly managed. Spending a lot more wisely than us and managed a lot better than us. Our lack of success on the football pitch compared to them has not been down to them spending more.

Net spent the last 10 years (from transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 1.187M
Manchester City - 982M

Net spent for other top clubs in Europe the last 10 years:
Chelsea - 860M
PSG - 825M
Arsenal - 791M
Barca - 620M
Spurs - 475M
Liverpool - 381M
Real Madrid - 130M (!)

Net spent the last 5 years (from Transfermarkt):
Manchester United - 612M (Spending big on players like Fred, Maguire, Sancho (might still be a good one), AWB, DvB, Antony (95M !!!) along with some good ones and letting players like: Herrera, Pogba, Lingard (who was valued at 40M for a couple of seasons), Sanchez etc. run their contracts down or force their way out for free) Letting Ronaldo, Zlatan, Sanchez, Cavani, Pogba etc. totally blow up our wage structure at the same time.
Manchester City - 258M (despite transfers like Grealish, Haaland, Dias, Ake, Phillips, Rodri, Cancelo and Mahrez in, who were all "expensive" - The did good business with departures like: Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko, Danilo, Torres, Otamendi, Douglas Luiz, Diaz, Angelino, Harrison etc.)

We need proof to claim anything off the books.

We have bought short term "stop gaps" with high wages and expensive gambles while they have bought and got rid with more success.

I'm not a fan of a super league and I don't think City should be relegated, so if City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of I hope they get points deducted (around 30 points) and a minimum 2 year transfer ban.
Let's see how it ends, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them worm out of it and walk with little more than a slap on the wrist.

Very good take.
If it was after me I would want them punished even if they haven't breached any rule, but it's not my decision.
The reality is that many of our fans "blame" their success in the last decade on the fact they've cheated financially. I don't. They were just better managed from the board to hiring the best manager in World football and that's why they had success. They were financially doped even during the Mancini or M Pellegirini eras. If we had Guardiola as manager in the last decade I bet we would of been in their shoes right now in terms of trophies if not better.

Didn't PSG cheat they way in Ligue 1 by winning all those titles with Qatar money?
Would Chelsea be blamed of cheating if, after spending half a billion on players this season alone would have won the treble? Nobody talks about them because they're shite right now.
 
Everyone knows United wasted money in the transfer market for 10 years with Ed Woodward running things, that doesn't justify what City have done. You can't have 115 charges then say it's ok because United have spent more
Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.

Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.

The "You really think it's just 1,7b? :lol:" kind of posts without backing it up with proof, info or source is just silly and lazy.
 
Juventus, Glasgow Rangers, Bolton, Leeds, Luton and many others. All have been demoted and heavily punished in the past.
What makes City and their fans think they are better and more untouchable than those clubs?!
That they have more wealth than all of them, combined, and are thus untouchable.
 
Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.

Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.

The "You really think it's just 1,7b? :lol:" kind of posts without backing it up with proof, info or source is just silly and lazy.
There's a much stronger correlation between footballing success and the wage bill than there is between transfer spend and footballing success. City are vastly underreporting their salaries - and their wage spend is the secret to their success.
 
Juventus, Glasgow Rangers, Bolton, Leeds, Luton and many others. All have been demoted and heavily punished in the past.
What makes City and their fans think they are better and more untouchable than those clubs?!
I don't think matchfixing, going bankrupt or being put under administration can be directly compared to cooking books (if found guilty), can it? If City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of, they will be punished.
That said, I hope they are not relegated because that could have enormous negative ring effects that would damage european league football greatly, like the start of a europeran super league which would be catastrophical for the EPL.
 
My girlfriend uploads cat videos that get more likes than this shit.
I really don't know what is more disturbing actually. The "cat video"-likes or the "City eco brag"-likes - none of them good for signs for the human race going into the future....
 
I don't think matchfixing, going bankrupt or being put under administration can be directly compared to cooking books (if found guilty), can it? If City is found guilty of the breaches they are accused of, they will be punished.
That said, I hope they are not relegated because that could have enormous negative ring effects that would damage european league football greatly, like the start of a europeran super league which would be catastrophical for the EPL.
Eh? I hope the other top clubs in the PL write to the PL and threaten them to join the European Super League if immediate and serious action is not taken against City’s 115 charges. And yes that should include relegation. If not, the PL can keep their fake valuable brand City while the other clubs leave the PL.
 
I think there is another factor to be considered when considering the likelihood of a decent punishment being handed out and that is the spectre of the European Super League.

What most people missed at the time was that the ESL wasn't just a cash-grab by the top clubs, it was also a reaction from the 'establishment' (Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, Real, United, Liverpool etc...) to the oil/state owned clubs.

Remember how City and PSG were so reluctant to sign up? They basically got put in a position whereby signing-up would mean accepting really tight FFP rules OR sitting out and no longer competing at the top level of European football.

We're going to get to the point whereby if City (and PSG) are allowed to get away with cheating, then the historical 'big clubs' will simply take their ball away - and the Premier League will fear this.

On another note, I was also disgusted that the cheating isn't/wasn't highlighted more. There seems to be this narrative that we shouldn't let off the pitch matters detract from their on-pitch success, or even worse, that 'all teams spend money'....but both completely miss the point.

First of all, the very simple and straightforward response is that cheating is cheating, and they have broken over 100 rules. If a cyclist cheats, they lose their medals and are treated as outcasts. If a runner cheats, they lose their medals and are treated as outcasts. City cheat and the response seems to be 'yeah they cheated but don't they knock it around nicely?'.

Secondly, and the more complex argument, is that people and pundits have short memories and they forget the sheer volume of players City have churned through to get to this mega squad of 23 clones, whereby they all fit perfectly into the system and there's no drop-off in quality when players are rotated.

To get to Haaland, for example, they went through Robinho, Tevez, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Bojinov, Dzeko, Balotelli, Aguero...and likely more I have forgotten.

You can apply that to every single position on the pitch. Don't let anybody con you into this narrative that they have bought well or been well-managed, they threw £3BN at the wall, some of it stuck and now they have the ultimate luxury of being able to plan 2/3 seasons at a time.

Therein lies the real advantage they have. Every other club, no matter how rich, has a budget. United are rich, but we have a budget. If we sign Maguire for £80m and it doesn't work, we can't just bin him and write off the loss, we have to try and make it work. Same with Fred. Same with Martial. Same with Sanch etc...plus each time we address a position there's an opportunity cost i.e if we sign a CB for £80m, that means we can't also sign a CF for £80m.

City have/had no such constraints. Don't like England's #1? Replace him with Barcelona's goalkeeper. Dont like him? Replace him with a £65m upgrade a season later. In the market for a fullback? Buy three, just incase one or two dont work out.

Simply put, they went on a spending spree the like of which has never been seen in world football and with that bought something more valuable than any one player or manager...the luxury of being able to plan two or three years ahead.

Pundits are dim and easily fooled. They will point to net spend/total spend and fail to see the nuanced difference between spending £1BN over a decade or spending £650m in two seasons and then adding a player or two a season thereafter.

I will always maintain that being able to spend big money is an advantage...but being able to spend 4x or 5x the average several windows running is the REAL golden ticket to almost guaranteed success. See also, Chelsea post-Roman.
A lot of people on this forum, let alone forums across the world, need to process this post.

I’ve not read through the thread in a while, but if none of the vocal detractors haven’t attempted to counter this I’ll be disappointed in them.
 
Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.

Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.

The "You really think it's just 1,7b? :lol:" kind of posts without backing it up with proof, info or source is just silly and lazy.
Have you seen any of the emails that were found? If you know what’s going on at that club then you don’t have to pay them on the back for a sterling job. They’ve benefitted from all kinds of corruption before you get anywhere near net spend and salaries. Check out the ex councillors on their board and what they were involved in prior to joining their board.
 
Absolutely agree!
I'm not saying it's ok, but those 115 breaches means nothing without a verdict. They'll be tried in court and will deserve any eventual verdict and punishment given. I hope they stay in the league, because I don't want a super league, but hope it stings hard.

Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings and we should look at what they have been doing in that period to learn something. They're still a stateowned sportswashing project, but it is possible to think they are doing something that other clubs can learn from when it comes to transfers and management. We have spent more than them and anyone else the last 10 years and it still feels like we need a long time to bridge the gap in qualitiy between us and them right now. If they have cheated, that's not the only reason they have had more success than us the last decade, it's more down to us going backwards.

The "You really think it's just 1,7b? :lol:" kind of posts without backing it up with proof, info or source is just silly and lazy.
The emails released a few years ago suggested they had 2 sets of books. Mancini was being paid separately and that will account for some of the 177 charges, remember they managed to avoid FIFA punishment due to a statue of limitations, not innocence. So the 1.x billion is just what is in their published accounts and we have already seen evidence that they have another set of books....
 
Like I said, I really don't like City, hate sportswashing and think they are a plastic club, but the last 5 years they have "only" 258M in net spendings

These net spend figures are nonsence as they are based on what City say they have spent rather than what they have actually spent and dont include the massive agent fees, signing fees, and intermeadiary fees they pay, their are players in this like Haaland who will be counted as 51m but actually cost well over 100m and Alvarez who will be listed as 20m but probably cost closer to 50m.
 
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The emails released a few years ago suggested they had 2 sets of books. Mancini was being paid separately and that will account for some of the 177 charges, remember they managed to avoid FIFA punishment due to a statue of limitations, not innocence. So the 1.x billion is just what is in their published accounts and we have already seen evidence that they have another set of books....

I have read the CAS ruling a couple of times and it’s far from it being as most City supporters would have you believe Ie they were cleared of the charges.

I fully accept that I can only base my view on what is in the public domain but if and a big if the leaked emails are accurate the case being put forward namely that in respect of Mancini there were two parallel contracts within the city group

Bear in mind that the burden of proof isn’t beyond reasonable doubt it’s set at on the balance of probability.

So Mancini is said to have signed a contract with City and a contract with the other team in the group on the same day. The sums paid by City for him to be their manager ( full time ) was less that he was going to be paid for 4 day’s coaching a year. The invoices for this coaching were allegedly sent to City and it was them that paid . The signatories on several documents appear to be the same officials acting on behalf of two supposedly entities

Its a requirement that all sums paid to managers, coaches and indeed players has to be paid through the club’s payroll ( it can’t be delegated elsewhere

Then you can look at the image rights . Remember how they, City , sold the players image rights to a “ stand alone “ company ? Image rights form part of a remuneration package and have to be paid via a club’s payroll.

I keep reflecting on the comment made in the press which poses the question “ If city are so sure they are innocent why are they doing everything they can to avoid the panel to rule on the matter ?”
 
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Have you seen any of the emails that were found? If you know what’s going on at that club then you don’t have to pay them on the back for a sterling job. They’ve benefitted from all kinds of corruption before you get anywhere near net spend and salaries. Check out the ex councillors on their board and what they were involved in prior to joining their board.
The emails released a few years ago suggested they had 2 sets of books. Mancini was being paid separately and that will account for some of the 177 charges, remember they managed to avoid FIFA punishment due to a statue of limitations, not innocence. So the 1.x billion is just what is in their published accounts and we have already seen evidence that they have another set of books....
No, I haven't seen the e-mails. I guess when all is laid in the table, we'll see what kind of punishment they'll get. Cooking books is serious and they deserve a hard punishment if found guilty.
 
Very good take.
If it was after me I would want them punished even if they haven't breached any rule, but it's not my decision.
The reality is that many of our fans "blame" their success in the last decade on the fact they've cheated financially. I don't. They were just better managed from the board to hiring the best manager in World football and that's why they had success. They were financially doped even during the Mancini or M Pellegirini eras. If we had Guardiola as manager in the last decade I bet we would of been in their shoes right now in terms of trophies if not better.

Didn't PSG cheat they way in Ligue 1 by winning all those titles with Qatar money?
Would Chelsea be blamed of cheating if, after spending half a billion on players this season alone would have won the treble? Nobody talks about them because they're shite right now.
I don't care about them spending money, the problem is how their owners got the money into the club via fake sponsorships, they're boosting the revenue to get around FFP meaning they have an unfair advantage over every other club that is following the rules
 
These net spend figures are nonsence as they are based on what City say they have spent rather than what they have actually spent and dont include the massive agent fees, signing fees, and intermeadiary fees they pay, their are players in this like Haaland who will be counted as 51m but actually cost well over 100m and Alvarez who will be listed as 20m but probably cost closer to 50m.
Agree. All this they have only had this net spend, this player only earns this rubbish. Their books have been well and truly burnt to a frazzle.