City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome

Fortitude said:
City are purchased by Abu Dhabi in September 2008. Manchester City placed 9th the season prior. Abu Dhabi get to work buying players who wouldn't otherwise even look in City's direction. 9th place in 2007/'08 becomes 8th place in 2008/'09; the initial steps of the process take a while to bed in, as the old is replaced with the new. City's first big leap takes place the next season with 8th place bested by three positions. They finish the 2009/'10 season in 5th position. We're now in 2010/'11 and City have sacked Hughes and got their first big name coach in Roberto Mancini. They finish 3rd that season and are now a Champions League club. They've been a perennial fixture in the CL places ever since.

There are no cyclic ups or downs, no consequence for poor purchases where normal clubs are lumped with players whose value plummets who they then cannot get off their books because they cannot afford to pay up their contracts willy-nilly and no other club will take them on without subsidy. There is no fear or regard for any of the recognised norms clubs who are not state-owned are hamstrung by. City are a guaranteed lock for a CL place, thus taking it away from any legitimate contender who is then vying with the remainder for 'a go'. The established Old Order are hurt by this, but the remainder are absolutely crushed by it because they have to have more luck than ever before, or take on more financial risk than ever before to try and break this new status quo.

Meanwhile, of the Old Order, not one of them has been a lock in the CL positions as a perennial fixture since 2009/'10

Manchester United have missed out on the CL 5, going on 6 times (once this season concludes).

Liverpool have missed out on the CL 6 times.

Chelsea have missed out on the CL 4, going on 5 times (once this season concludes).

Arsenal have missed out on the CL 6 times.

This is the Old Order, look how many times these so-called behemoths have failed to qualify for the Champions League since City became an indubitable fixture in the competition. Whether you wish to count Chelsea or not, the point remains - Chelsea are more an example of a club with no hope forcing themselves into the conversation, but not overstepping the mark to the point they have broken football.

Now, as stated by numerous people and their painstaking efforts to make clear how damaging what City are doing is, it's not the clubs above who are the most put out by City, it's the teams below them who, without City's permanency would have had a chance to make their play for the top table. Spurs are going to have been the biggest fall guys, but now it's also the likes of Villa as they try and push through the glass ceiling to compete directly with the teams above (and not City).

There is no time in English football history where Old Orders (they used to be dynamic: Wolves, for example, used to be a big dog up to the conclusion of the 1950's) as there have been - or supposedly established - where those teams remained, perennially, at the helm. In fact, most are defined by golden periods followed by fallow times where they cannot compete for the league nor CL (or previously, the European Cup).

Great periods for these sides are attributed to great men doing unbelievably shrewd work within a financial remit that whilst at the higher end, was not obliterating those around them - the clubs ebbed and flowed with the passage of these managers. City are a faceless state, as @Regulus Arcturus Black stated, there is no way for them to fail because they will always have the best in class, will always replace the best with the best and there will never be a lull due to financial instability or uncertainty. In other words, completely and utterly artificial conditions, especially when contrasted with what history has told us about every one of the Old Order, who all, to a club, could/did/have slumped and have had to re-establish themselves once more years down the line.

It's clear that what some see as "Manchester United" is actually an infernal loathing of Alex Ferguson and the brilliance he ushered into the club, which immediately lost its way without him at the top. In the following 10 years, the cluelessness, and more importantly, the consequences of that cluelessness, have not only seen Manchester United fall back into the pack, but for most of the time, be behind them by some distance. The exact same thing befell Liverpool when Dalglish handed over to Souness and sent them flailing, not only off the top spot, but to be out of the running for the title for years. In very short order, both clubs went from halcyon periods with great players to an exodus and squads and managers who hadn't a prayer. This is how the Old Order works and what their pitfalls are. One or two bad managerial hires and they can fall like a house of cards because consequence for poor decisions then comes back to haunt them as a debt that needs paying in full. These old clubs don't just get to wipe the slate clean each season and go again with a brand new set of players if the bad buys don't work out. They are lumped with them and the general bar for the side will steadily diminish. Arsenal experienced exactly the same thing once Wenger stopped shitting gold. The stadium didn't help, but it wasn't their downfall, but it highlights another point and consequence: the either, or. By pouring money into the new stadium, they were going to be hamstrung for years. A conscious decision made to better their stadium meant less money could be pumped into the team, and anyone coming to manage them had to accept that. At City? Nope, we'll redevelop a portion of the city - yes, the literal city - whilst still hiring best in class across all facets on off and the pitch with no fallout whatsoever. Hmm... clearly the same playing field as what everyone else is uuming and ahhing from.

The worst thing of all is City didn't have to cheat as a state is going to be Borg-like in its assimilation by its very nature. It cannot be anything else, which is why it has no place in football, but that's besides the point as this is about cheating to achieve ends as hurriedly and as artificially as one can imagine.

As much as the Old Order could be despised by those who were not part of it, they were not infinite or unmovable. Every single one of them had sizeable lulls multiple times in their histories and provided opportunities for others to take their slice of the pie should they be so fortunate to go upwind at the time of a boon for the game. We'll never know what would have happened without City in the picture, but history tells us, quite clearly, that even the biggest of English clubs has never been too big to not fail, until now. With Ferguson's retirement, there was no guarantee status quo would have remained, but unlike in the past, where new players could gobble up space, things quickly became established in this new, most broken order where the winningest team's biggest concerns are in how to hide their wrongdoing. The footballing side of things, a total formality due to them having no consequences for anything that goes wrong.
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This should be sent to politicians and to everyone connected to the game. Well written and explained
 
croadyman said:
Yeah this is why I don't want them becoming first team to win 4 leagues on the bounce, however looking at tonight it's hard to see who can take points off City in the last 5 games
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The only team that could potentially take points off City hate Arsenal anyway.
 
Fortitude said:
City are purchased by Abu Dhabi in September 2008. Manchester City placed 9th the season prior. Abu Dhabi get to work buying players who wouldn't otherwise even look in City's direction. 9th place in 2007/'08 becomes 8th place in 2008/'09; the initial steps of the process take a while to bed in, as the old is replaced with the new. City's first big leap takes place the next season with 8th place bested by three positions. They finish the 2009/'10 season in 5th position. We're now in 2010/'11 and City have sacked Hughes and got their first big name coach in Roberto Mancini. They finish 3rd that season and are now a Champions League club. They've been a perennial fixture in the CL places ever since.

There are no cyclic ups or downs, no consequence for poor purchases where normal clubs are lumped with players whose value plummets who they then cannot get off their books because they cannot afford to pay up their contracts willy-nilly and no other club will take them on without subsidy. There is no fear or regard for any of the recognised norms clubs who are not state-owned are hamstrung by. City are a guaranteed lock for a CL place, thus taking it away from any legitimate contender who is then vying with the remainder for 'a go'. The established Old Order are hurt by this, but the remainder are absolutely crushed by it because they have to have more luck than ever before, or take on more financial risk than ever before to try and break this new status quo.

Meanwhile, of the Old Order, not one of them has been a lock in the CL positions as a perennial fixture since 2009/'10

Manchester United have missed out on the CL 5, going on 6 times (once this season concludes).

Liverpool have missed out on the CL 6 times.

Chelsea have missed out on the CL 4, going on 5 times (once this season concludes).

Arsenal have missed out on the CL 6 times.

This is the Old Order, look how many times these so-called behemoths have failed to qualify for the Champions League since City became an indubitable fixture in the competition. Whether you wish to count Chelsea or not, the point remains - Chelsea are more an example of a club with no hope forcing themselves into the conversation, but not overstepping the mark to the point they have broken football.

Now, as stated by numerous people and their painstaking efforts to make clear how damaging what City are doing is, it's not the clubs above who are the most put out by City, it's the teams below them who, without City's permanency would have had a chance to make their play for the top table. Spurs are going to have been the biggest fall guys, but now it's also the likes of Villa as they try and push through the glass ceiling to compete directly with the teams above (and not City).

There is no time in English football history where Old Orders (they used to be dynamic: Wolves, for example, used to be a big dog up to the conclusion of the 1950's) as there have been - or supposedly established - where those teams remained, perennially, at the helm. In fact, most are defined by golden periods followed by fallow times where they cannot compete for the league nor CL (or previously, the European Cup).

Great periods for these sides are attributed to great men doing unbelievably shrewd work within a financial remit that whilst at the higher end, was not obliterating those around them - the clubs ebbed and flowed with the passage of these managers. City are a faceless state, as @Regulus Arcturus Black stated, there is no way for them to fail because they will always have the best in class, will always replace the best with the best and there will never be a lull due to financial instability or uncertainty. In other words, completely and utterly artificial conditions, especially when contrasted with what history has told us about every one of the Old Order, who all, to a club, could/did/have slumped and have had to re-establish themselves once more years down the line.

It's clear that what some see as "Manchester United" is actually an infernal loathing of Alex Ferguson and the brilliance he ushered into the club, which immediately lost its way without him at the top. In the following 10 years, the cluelessness, and more importantly, the consequences of that cluelessness, have not only seen Manchester United fall back into the pack, but for most of the time, be behind them by some distance. The exact same thing befell Liverpool when Dalglish handed over to Souness and sent them flailing, not only off the top spot, but to be out of the running for the title for years. In very short order, both clubs went from halcyon periods with great players to an exodus and squads and managers who hadn't a prayer. This is how the Old Order works and what their pitfalls are. One or two bad managerial hires and they can fall like a house of cards because consequence for poor decisions then comes back to haunt them as a debt that needs paying in full. These old clubs don't just get to wipe the slate clean each season and go again with a brand new set of players if the bad buys don't work out. They are lumped with them and the general bar for the side will steadily diminish. Arsenal experienced exactly the same thing once Wenger stopped shitting gold. The stadium didn't help, but it wasn't their downfall, but it highlights another point and consequence: the either, or. By pouring money into the new stadium, they were going to be hamstrung for years. A conscious decision made to better their stadium meant less money could be pumped into the team, and anyone coming to manage them had to accept that. At City? Nope, we'll redevelop a portion of the city - yes, the literal city - whilst still hiring best in class across all facets on off and the pitch with no fallout whatsoever. Hmm... clearly the same playing field as what everyone else is uuming and ahhing from.

The worst thing of all is City didn't have to cheat as a state is going to be Borg-like in its assimilation by its very nature. It cannot be anything else, which is why it has no place in football, but that's besides the point as this is about cheating to achieve ends as hurriedly and as artificially as one can imagine.

As much as the Old Order could be despised by those who were not part of it, they were not infinite or unmovable. Every single one of them had sizeable lulls multiple times in their histories and provided opportunities for others to take their slice of the pie should they be so fortunate to go upwind at the time of a boon for the game. We'll never know what would have happened without City in the picture, but history tells us, quite clearly, that even the biggest of English clubs has never been too big to not fail, until now. With Ferguson's retirement, there was no guarantee status quo would have remained, but unlike in the past, where new players could gobble up space, things quickly became established in this new, most broken order where the winningest team's biggest concerns are in how to hide their wrongdoing. The footballing side of things, a total formality due to them having no consequences for anything that goes wrong.
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.

Post of the year and perhaps the decade.

You have perfectly put into words the way many of us feel, but are too weary of the whole situation to articulate.
 
diarm said:
.

Post of the year and perhaps the decade.

You have perfectly put into words the way many of us feel, but are too weary of the whole situation to articulate.
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It's excellent, and it pairs very well with Barney Ronay's piece from last week (which has been shared on here before I believe) and particularly this part:
It is worth remembering what the City project is for. This remains at bottom a public relations exercise staged by a sovereign state with a questionable human rights record, but intent on building a post-carbon economy.

City are by their own accounts the most financially powerful club in world football. Vast dumps of cash have been thrown at this thing, billionaire will-to-power applied to football's laughably inadequate governance. This is sport as foreign policy, backed by the laughable fiction that in doing so the ruling monarchy of Abu Dhabi is breaking open a cartel, sticking up for the little guy, outsiders against the overclass and all the rest of it.

It is a grotesque spectacle on many levels, albeit by no means the only one out there, with all due respect to the exciting new breed of hyper-incompetent hedge-bro owners. But it turns out this is what it takes to make Real Madrid look like underdogs; to make another semi-final for a squad valued at $1bn feel like a victory for sport against the machine. Congratulations to everyone involved. It's quite the people's game we've carved out here.
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Rooney in Paris said:
It's excellent, and it pairs very well with Barney Ronay's piece from last week (which has been shared on here before I believe) and particularly this part:
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Wow, he really put the peddle to the metal there! About time swipes were taken at them!

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Thank you, people for the kind words. Don't really know how to respond, but it is much appreciated.
 
Fortitude said:
Wow, he really put the peddle to the metal there! About time swipes were taken at them!

----

Thank you, people for the kind words. Don't really know how to respond, but it is much appreciated.
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Take the free blowjobs and move on you pretentious tosser kidding I appreciate you you're a great poster

Yeah it's too rare in mainstream media to have people actually callign them out - it's a shame it will remain an isolated case with little traction, but good on Barney who's generally one of the few good journos out there.
 
Congratulations on winning everything Abu Dhabi 115. League 2025 sown up. Any indigestion issues from having swallowed Manchester City whole? Borg light blue flatulence?
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Take the free blowjobs and move on you pretentious tosser kidding I appreciate you you're a great poster

Yeah it's too rare in mainstream media to have people actually callign them out - it's a shame it will remain an isolated case with little traction, but good on Barney who's generally one of the few good journos out there.
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:lol:

I wonder how much push-back he's gotten in the industry for telling the truth and refusing to be part of the charade others have willingly signed up to. Admirable of him to speak out like this, especially now when the PR vehicle is likely to go into overdrive.
 
Fortitude said:
:lol:

I wonder how much push-back he's gotten in the industry for telling the truth and refusing to be part of the charade others have willingly signed up to. Admirable of him to speak out like this, especially now when the PR vehicle is likely to go into overdrive.
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Yeah I wonder that too. But I really like Barney Ronay. Often feel himself or Henry Winter are some of the only journos to have the balls to call things out like this, and that's regardless of club by the way because they hold others to account for their own indiscretions too.
 
Fortitude said:
:lol:

I wonder how much push-back he's gotten in the industry for telling the truth and refusing to be part of the charade others have willingly signed up to. Admirable of him to speak out like this, especially now when the PR vehicle is likely to go into overdrive.
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Vault Dweller said:
Yeah I wonder that too. But I really like Barney Ronay. Often feel himself or Henry Winter are some of the only journos to have the balls to call things out like this, and that's regardless of club by the way because they hold others to account for their own indiscretions too.
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There's a few others, there's this BBC journalist I believe who has a bit of a German name but I've forgotten it who does some proper pieces about the finances, Andy Mitten usually calls it out but due to his allegiances it's not taken seriously I think, but in general there's very few.

The Athletic, whose coverage on a lot of things I like (they have the best journos for Utd topics in Laurie Whitwell and Carl Anka, and The Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akinwolere is usually very good), is very selective in the topics they decide to be outraged by, and this sytemic cheating scheme that is destroying the game from within didn't make the cut. I guess there's too much of a conflict of interest for them as they probably get good exclusives for keeping shtum.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
There's a few others, there's this BBC journalist I believe who has a bit of a German name but I've forgotten it who does some proper pieces about the finances, Andy Mitten usually calls it out but due to his allegiances it's not taken seriously I think, but in general there's very few.

The Athletic, whose coverage on a lot of things I like (they have the best journos for Utd topics in Laurie Whitwell and Carl Anka, and The Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akinwolere is usually very good), is very selective in the topics they decide to be outraged by, and this sytemic cheating scheme that is destroying the game from within didn't make the cut. I guess there's too much of a conflict of interest for them as they probably get good exclusives for keeping shtum.
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Yeah I like a lot of the Athletic guys too but too few ever really speak out against City I feel. Those guys are great as well and it's a good podcast but there must be too much of a conflict there or they assume it's probably not gonna be taken seriously for them to talk about.

Maybe too many are just scared or worried they can't really say anything due to the possible repercussions, but it's so annoying they just get away with barely any criticism at all, and too many fawn over them being the greatest.
 
Fortitude said:
Wow, he really put the peddle to the metal there! About time swipes were taken at them!

----

Thank you, people for the kind words. Don't really know how to respond, but it is much appreciated.
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Put what to the metal, exactly? The "peddle" you say. And how does one put the "peddle" to the metal? Does one negotiate with the metal? Does the metal exchange money for your said peddling? What kind of peddling are we talking about here anyway? Like a market stall selling knock off jeans? Or perhaps we're selling incorrect words, hmmmmmmm?!?!

I've brought him back down to Earth, lads. He won't get ahead of himself next time.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah this is why I don't want them becoming first team to win 4 leagues on the bounce, however looking at tonight it's hard to see who can take points off City in the last 5 games
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Between that Aguero goal, the Kompany screamer, the Gundogan goals in the final match of '22, and the KDB goals against Arsenal last year, most of the PL fan base has cheered them on basically every season. With that kind of support, of course they're going to win four on the trot.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Yeah I like a lot of the Athletic guys too but too few ever really speak out against City I feel. Those guys are great as well and it's a good podcast but there must be too much of a conflict there or they assume it's probably not gonna be taken seriously for them to talk about.

Maybe too many are just scared or worried they can't really say anything due to the possible repercussions, but it's so annoying they just get away with barely any criticism at all, and too many fawn over them being the greatest.
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There might be an element of fear, I think there's also an element of most football journos being chancers with very little ethics or talent and just counting their lucky stars they get invited to the all inclusive buffet at the Etihad. I'm quite sure that covers about 90% of the silence.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
There's a few others, there's this BBC journalist I believe who has a bit of a German name but I've forgotten it who does some proper pieces about the finances, Andy Mitten usually calls it out but due to his allegiances it's not taken seriously I think, but in general there's very few.

The Athletic, whose coverage on a lot of things I like (they have the best journos for Utd topics in Laurie Whitwell and Carl Anka, and The Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akinwolere is usually very good), is very selective in the topics they decide to be outraged by, and this sytemic cheating scheme that is destroying the game from within didn't make the cut. I guess there's too much of a conflict of interest for them as they probably get good exclusives for keeping shtum.
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Kudos to them, honestly because it does take some stones to potentially risk future income or even have opportunities taken away that would otherwise most certainly be on the table. Very admirable of each and every one of them.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Put what to the metal, exactly? The "peddle" you say. And how does one put the "peddle" to the metal? Does one negotiate with the metal? Does the metal exchange money for your said peddling? What kind of peddling are we talking about here anyway? Like a market stall selling knock off jeans? Or perhaps we're selling incorrect words, hmmmmmmm?!?!

I've brought him back down to Earth, lads. He won't get ahead of himself next time.
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:(
 
‘Hearing’. What does that mean exactly?
As in it will decided then or that it’s the first, preliminary meeting of many?
 
Solius said:
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Why all the secrecy surrounding the date?

This is the equivalent of parents trying to shut their whining kids up in the car saying they’re “nearly home”.

It’s clear that City have no intention of complying and are delaying matters as much as possible - just throw the fecking book at them.
 
Irrational. said:
Why all the secrecy surrounding the date?

This is the equivalent of parents trying to shut their whining kids up in the car saying they’re “nearly home”.

It’s clear that City have no intention of complying and are delaying matters as much as possible - just throw the fecking book at them.
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I think it’s because they can’t promise anything. They could put a date on it and then people will be pissed off when 115 lawyers get the date pushed back again and again.
 
Can't wait for the UAE to strong-arm the UK government into strong-arming the football regulator, who in turn strong-arms the EPL into dismissing the case.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Sounds very much like the choice of words to say they are approaching an agreement that is acceptable for all parties.
Almost like a lawyer pleased he’s not going to court and has a nice plea deal close.
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Yup. They're gonna get away with it aren't they, feckers
 
Points deduction just lowers their league position for a season. Relegation just ruins any league they're demoted to and they'd only be away for a short time anyway. Fines mean nothing. Transfer penalties pointless as they've stock piled enough quality for a few seasons. Euro ban? Yep that worked the last time. They've achieved what they set out to do so the only real punishment is having their trophies and titles striped and an asterisk placed in the records but the powers that be are too cowardly to do that so any negotiated censure really will be meaningless. I'm past caring as we all know there'll be no real meaningful punishment.
 
They’ll announce the ruling at the same time as a new Premier League <> Etihad sponsorship deal
 
The Irish Connection said:
Very hard to take the Premier League seriously with them involved.
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This is the problem that The FA face. Lot of people are not taking this league seriously anymore. At least not until this is finished. ManCity won treble last year but people just shurgged their shoulder. Instead of giving them tons of credit, there isn't. It is just indifference. It just feels wrong. It just feels artificial. Not giving any decision just puts more and more people off.

Talking about "The case will resolve itself" is just not professional. Why don't we get any transparency.
 
90 + 5min said:
This is the problem that The FA face. Lot of people are not taking this league seriously anymore. At least not until this is finished. ManCity won treble last year but people just shurgged their shoulder. Instead of giving them tons of credit, there isn't. It is just indifference. It just feels wrong. It just feels artificial. Not giving any decision just puts more and more people off.

Talking about "The case will resolve itself" is just not professional. Why don't we get any transparency.
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That’s no problem at all, because there aren’t any organised fans who would do anything to threaten their way of doing business. So they’ll just continue. They don’t give a shit wether people care or not. The bottom line is wether the money is right. It is. So they’ll just continue.
 
Any season where City win is effectively VOID assuming they don't hand titles to 2nd place, personally i would void the season as a reminder of what happened for the last decade or so. So technically for the last 3 seasons (and possibly the current season) were played for no reason at all. It's like all football should of been stopped till these 115 charges were resolved.

The recent comments in parliment by George Galloway were interesting, but maybe a party (that isn't conservative) can start asking questions around limiting foreign government/entities speaking to the current government in power to avoid charges for there personal play things.
 
90 + 5min said:
This is the problem that The FA face. Lot of people are not taking this league seriously anymore. At least not until this is finished. ManCity won treble last year but people just shurgged their shoulder. Instead of giving them tons of credit, there isn't. It is just indifference. It just feels wrong. It just feels artificial. Not giving any decision just puts more and more people off.

Talking about "The case will resolve itself" is just not professional. Why don't we get any transparency.
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Agree.

I just hope after all the waiting/delay they get properly punished.

4 league titles in a row shouldn't happen in the supposed best and most competitive league in the world.
 
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