Chido Obi

No chance in hell he starts tonight, and probably any game this season.
 
I think Ruben has mentioned before how this is not the right environment to give youngsters a go. Doubt he'd start him or any other youngster, barring a deeper injury crisis.
 
Will probably not happen based on how we are playing at the moment but it would be nice if we could get 3 goals ahead with half an hour to go to allow Chido to get some minutes in a lower pressure environment
 
Was a pity that Dorgu got sent off so early. Kind of burst any chance Chido had of getting minutes against a team he could have gotten some joy against.
 
lysglimt said:
He is not incorrect though - it's completely unrealistic to think that 5-6 players from the same generation should make it. That has happened once before in the last 60 years or so - and that was a completely different era where our biggest opponent used players like John Beresford, David Batty, Darren Peacock, Steve Watson and Robbie Elliott and when we were the best team in the country with an experienced manager.

Sure we might get 4-5 of these players into the squad - but if you are looking for first-team regulars you are probably talking at best an average of 1 pr year.
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60 years...

So that's going back to 1965 and it's more than most people think. It depends of course by the definition of 'making it' and 'same generation'....but assuming it is playing with the club for say two seasons as a first team player...so we are taking about 50+ games or so (no-one plays every game) ....and same generation is in the same 4-5 year spell/same team then:

1960's - Aston, Rimmer, Fitzpatrick, Burns, Sartori, Noble, James, Kidd, Gowling (nearly 1,000 appearances between them)

1970's - Edwards, O'Neil, Young, Greenhoff, Nicholl, Albiston, McIlroy, Ritchie, McCreery (1,800)

1980's - Duxbury, Walsh, Whiteside, Blackmore, Hughes, Hogg, Garton, Beardsmore, Robins, Martin (1,900)

1990's - G. Neville, P. Neville, Scholes, Butt, Beckham, Giggs, Brown (3,700)

2000's - O'Shea, Richardson, Fletcher, Gibson, Evans, Welbeck (1,200)

2010's - Lingard, Pogba, Cleverley, Januzaj, Pereira...then later Rashford, McTominay, Greenwood (1,200)

2020's - Williams, Elanga, Garnacho, Mainoo (250+)

So realistically, at least at United, it happens every decade or so. I do agree that getting 1-2 a year is the goal but historically we do better than that.

On Sunday we had three players start all from the same youth team with Gore, McNeill and Forson having previously done so.

So based on historical data...having a handful of players from the same youth 'generation' is totally realistic.
 
ariel said:
How on earth can he be considered a youth product? I saw it also on the manutd site. He isn't with us even 6 months..
They are bending the rules with Collyer, but this is too much.
By the way, the real count is 250 with Wheatley, so according to their count it should be 252 not 242
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Here's the criteria:

1. Joined the club before 17th birthday (so FA still regard player as a youth players by international standards)
2. Didn't play first team football anywhere else (it's difficult to take credit for any development if the player has already reached the first team elsewhere)
3. Actually played in our youth team.

So Chido Obi counts, Toby Collyer doesn't. The actual total of youth players to reach the first team is at least 256 with question marks over two players in the 1940's/1950's where records don't exist about the exact time they joined us.

The club have got the numbers wrong.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
Here's the criteria:

1. Joined the club before 17th birthday (so FA still regard player as a youth players by international standards)
2. Didn't play first team football anywhere else (it's difficult to take credit for any development if the player has already reached the first team elsewhere)
3. Actually played in our youth team.

So Chido Obi counts, Toby Collyer doesn't. The actual total of youth players to reach the first team is at least 256 with question marks over two players in the 1940's/1950's where records don't exist about the exact time they joined us.

The club have got the numbers wrong.
Click to expand...
At least we have you to keep the numbers right

Still seems strange to call Obi a product of our youth system. But if he fits all the criteria then congratulations to us
 
ariel said:
At least we have you to keep the numbers right

Still seems strange to call Obi a product of our youth system. But if he fits all the criteria then congratulations to us
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It's similar to going to school.

Some kids join at Year 7, others at Year 10...for a variety of reasons. But if they do their final exams, get their GCSE's...then they graduated from that school. In fact, it would seem strange to say they didn't. Same at University. You can change classes/courses for a short period of time before you graduate...but your final school is the one named on the paperwork. How does anyone know whether or not the support/education/coaching you got from a tutor in your final year of school was the thing that ultimately made you successful?

In the 1940's-1990's kids arrived at 15, 16 and 17 from non-league, youth clubs, local school teams etc and joined a professional club. They trained for 2-3 years in the juniors until they reached the first team. Some moved quicker like Duncan Edwards, George Best, Norman Whiteside and so on but no-one says they weren't developed at United. (or any other club)

In today's world of Academies I think it's right to say that the likes of Harry Amass were developed at Watford AND at United...both get credit. It's the same with Chido Obi at Arsenal AND United. Or the Fletcher's at City.

Otherwise if you use a rule that says that any player has to PLAY FOR ONE CLUB THEIR WHOLE YOUTH CAREER to be regarded as a youth graduate...then basically youth systems only started in 2007-2008 which of course isn't true. And further, you would have the ridiculous situation where a player who played for three teams from 7-16 (say three years each) wasn't developed anywhere...when he was actually developed at all three. It becomes illogical and non-sensical.

That's why the FA use a consistent 'three-point' criteria that can be applied across the history of the game. (even if UEFA change things all the time too which is confusing).

Personally, in keeping my records we have had loads of players at United who leave at 8-15 and I don't include them in any of my statistics. When they reach U/16 I add them in because then I can be consistent with all players since the 1930's and comparisons make sense.

An example is with Josh Brownhill and Dwight McNeil both who played with Burnley. Josh played regularly in our U/16's so he is included but Dwight McNeil left at 14 and didn't...so he is not included and as far as I'm concerned Burnley can take the credit. If I was to add up all the players at other clubs to actually played at some point for United the numbers would be crazy.

It works both ways. I just aim to be as consistent as possible.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
It's similar to going to school.

Some kids join at Year 7, others at Year 10...for a variety of reasons. But if they do their final exams, get their GCSE's...then they graduated from that school. In fact, it would seem strange to say they didn't. Same at University. You can change classes/courses for a short period of time before you graduate...but your final school is the one named on the paperwork. How does anyone know whether or not the support/education/coaching you got from a tutor in your final year of school was the thing that ultimately made you successful?

In the 1940's-1990's kids arrived at 15, 16 and 17 from non-league, youth clubs, local school teams etc and joined a professional club. They trained for 2-3 years in the juniors until they reached the first team. Some moved quicker like Duncan Edwards, George Best, Norman Whiteside and so on but no-one says they weren't developed at United. (or any other club)

In today's world of Academies I think it's right to say that the likes of Harry Amass were developed at Watford AND at United...both get credit. It's the same with Chido Obi at Arsenal AND United. Or the Fletcher's at City.

Otherwise if you use a rule that says that any player has to PLAY FOR ONE CLUB THEIR WHOLE YOUTH CAREER to be regarded as a youth graduate...then basically youth systems only started in 2007-2008 which of course isn't true. And further, you would have the ridiculous situation where a player who played for three teams from 7-16 (say three years each) wasn't developed anywhere...when he was actually developed at all three. It becomes illogical and non-sensical.

That's why the FA use a consistent 'three-point' criteria that can be applied across the history of the game. (even if UEFA change things all the time too which is confusing).

Personally, in keeping my records we have had loads of players at United who leave at 8-15 and I don't include them in any of my statistics. When they reach U/16 I add them in because then I can be consistent with all players since the 1930's and comparisons make sense.

An example is with Josh Brownhill and Dwight McNeil both who played with Burnley. Josh played regularly in our U/16's so he is included but Dwight McNeil left at 14 and didn't...so he is not included and as far as I'm concerned Burnley can take the credit. If I was to add up all the players at other clubs to actually played at some point for United the numbers would be crazy.

It works both ways. I just aim to be as consistent as possible.
Click to expand...

I get it and consistency is important, especially with our special record. That is why changing criteria as we go along doesn't make sense.

Of course players change clubs during their youth and you may have co-success of various academies regarding these players. My only point was that it is a bit strange referring to a player that is with us for a couple of months/days as a youth graduate. Amass and the Fletchers are here for more than a year now. However, as he fits all three criteria, which is how it is determined during the last 80 years or so, then so be it.
 
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