It's something that I think Arsenal fans are harsh with. If you are good enough he's happy to have you in the squad, see Saka, Nelson, Smith-Rowe, Nketiah. I don't know what critics of Arteta expected...create a path way for Patino when he struggles to get into the Blackpool and Swansea teams?
Chido Obi Martin
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It's something that I think Arsenal fans are harsh with. If you are good enough he's happy to have you in the squad, see Saka, Nelson, Smith-Rowe, Nketiah. I don't know what critics of Arteta expected...create a path way for Patino when he struggles to get into the Blackpool and Swansea teams?
What's happened with Patino? I remember him hyped up massively a few years ago.
That's probably a fair retort, although Saka the only one left standing
. I think people will be closely watching how/if he brings through Nwaneri this season, considering we and others were sniffing around him. .
Just what happens all too often mate, highly rated youth player struggling to take that final step up to the senior game.
His next move might make or break his career. Needs to be the right club where he's going to play every week. I'd be tempted to move abroad if I was him, perhaps a less physical type of football would suit him more.
That's probably a fair retort, although Saka the only one left standing
.
It's true though. People can accuse Arteta of being adverse to playing kids, but at the end of the day, the kids need to be of the quality where they are at least equal to what's currently in the squad, and unfortunately that's not been the case.
Like you say, Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly seem to be the ones that are being earmarked potentially for the first team in the near future, let's see how they develop.
Letting 23-24 year olds be in the squad is an extremely low bar for an academy player to be considered successfully introduced.
He still has time on his side but like you say, this upcoming season is a big one for him. He's needs a loan like Amad got with Sunderland.
You think that just happened this season like?
Obviously not, but you are citing them as positive examples that players like Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly could look to emulate and I just don't see how it's reassuring at all.
Yup. If you look at the group of players in the 2002-2005 birth year cohorts (this is post-Nelson/Willock/Nketiah/Smith-Rowe/Saka/Balogun) its basically a bunch of guys who were just nowhere near good enough to make it at Arsenal, especially as the first team itself got a lot better: Patino, Azeez, Flores, Biereth, Hutchinson, Sagoe, Walters, Cozier-Duberry.
The real questions to ask are (a) why did we go through a four year dry spell without an academy player who could help the first team even in a limited capacity? (b) Could we have done more to move some of these players out on loan and sell them more aggressively, so that we could got more of a financial return?
There is plenty to criticize on both counts IMO but neither has much to do with Arteta.
IMO, the single biggest issue is that club has catch up to do in terms of the pipeline of talent from very early ages. Chelsea acquired a dominant position in terms of talents in the south of the country and we are still playing catch up. Investments in the academy infrastructure have helped but this can take a long time because a lot of the kids who are coming through now as 21 year olds first joined their academies circa 2010-2015.
Why not? They are players from the academy that got in and around the first team. So it shows that it can be done.
Then when you get to the first team, you need to prove you are good enough to stay there and become a main stay. Saka has. Smith-Rowe looked like he was going to until injuries. Nelson and Nketiah unfortunately never really looked good enough.
I don't know what you expect? Arteta isn't going to play a lesser player just because they are from the academy. He's trying to compete for leagues with City. So as mentioned above, can you come in and show you are at least as good as your peers? That's the challenge for these young guys, as difficult as it is, it's why only the exceptional will make it.
Exactly. People are criticising Arteta for not giving youth a chance. I'm still waiting on them telling me which players he should have integrated into the first team from what we had?
We know already the players that are most highly rated coming through. Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, and behind them, Max Dowman are the jewels. But as Patino shows, sometimes that just doesn't translate to the senior game. I'm really hoping Patino can get his career back on track somewhere. I'm also intrigued to see how much of a chance Cozier-Duberry gets at Brighton, he looks interesting as well.
I hope he isn't a rough tackler. Imagine he goes in hard on Collyer in his first training session. They'll be saying Toby? you just got stomped by Obi.
It's 3am and I've had a drink. Give me a break.
It's 3am and I've had a drink. Give me a break.
Creating that path, giving them minutes in Cup games, having them train with the first teamers, etc make them better players also. If you don't create that path you're also not giving them the chance to be good enough.
But maybe all your youngsters are below par.
So what you’re saying is that “natural finishers” never miss or have bad games? Have you seen him play for us at all? And have you looked at his chance conversion rate?
As long as he is training with the first team regularly, while playing U23 football.
I
I can see why Hojlund is seen as a non natural finisher. His movements are not particularly crisp and they seem robotic. The best strikers create their own goals through good movement, either in behind or dropping deep. His aerial ability isn't up to scratch either and his first touch is a hit or miss. At the moment, he is a purple patch center forward who seems to rely on his physicality. He needs to be more subtle, more calculated and more deadly to be a top striker. Age is NO excuse either. If I were him, I would be camping around Ruud and consuming videos of the best forwards. He needs a lot of work to be a top striker.
I suppose it depends on what "finisher" means. Getting into the right positions to finish is one thing, finishing when you're in that position is another. For us at least Højlund has proven himself to be very good at the latter point (which is what I call finishing). He really needs work on the positioning.
Someone like Darwin is the opposite: great at getting into positions, but rather poor at finishing.
By the way, @WeePat, just in case you've understandably missed this subtle point, Garnacho joined us when he was 16.
All our forwards now have Ruud van Nistelrooy, who can and will teach them everything there is to learn about assisting, positioning, and finishing. So with somebody like that coaching you, if they cannot improve any of the three aspects of scoring, well - it is on them then
Hey, Everton played Rooney at 16
yeah, Rooney but is 16 in a body of a 20 years old
Have you seen Obi Martin?
Like @Glorio I define finishing as the ability to put the ball into goal and in that regard Hojlund is elite. “Age is NO excuse” - with capitals, really? Well, I never heard him excusing anything, but we are some who believe that age is a thing that is closely correlated with experience. Like, when you began your career in whatever you do, you were probably not as proficient as you are now - I hope?
Apart from that I disagree with everything you say except from his heading which hopefully improves. He’s been in entirely free positions loads of times without getting the ball and most of his goals he has created himself without anyone assisting or even helping by drawing defenders away.
Most of all you sound like one of those posters who didn’t want him here and now try to make him seem worse than he is so that you don’t need to change your opinion. But that’s just speculation, of course.
Reminds me of Isak, if he’s anywhere near as good we’ve got a gem
Theres a picture of him and Declan Rice in training and he looks tall and developed.
Yeah that's my point.
Is Rice passing sideways?
Shame to lose him.
But United are offering obscene wages for a kid, and he was a United fan as a youngster. Still wish we could have convinced him to stay.
But United are offering obscene wages for a kid, and he was a United fan as a youngster. Still wish we could have convinced him to stay.
Ooh I didn’t know that. Nice.
True. He looks like a stronger and more clinical version. Obviously he’d have to fulfill that potential like Isak partly has.
Don't fact check me, but that's what I had read anyway.
That was started by Arsenal fan account, ofcourse Arsenal fans will go with that.
Then there is Romano who said completely different.
Obscene wages, sure.
Double what we were willing to pay = obscene wages.
Again that was started by Arsenal fan account and some shit source.
Then I stand corrected.
Reading the tweets and other articles it seems part of the reasoning is he sees a clearer path to the first XI. Interesting given United have two young CF's in Zirkzee and Hojlund.
Any news on this?
Cant be good that he’s missing time developing as a footballer while this rumbles on
Also, I think he’ll make his first team debut this season
Cant be good that he’s missing time developing as a footballer while this rumbles on
Also, I think he’ll make his first team debut this season