Chicharito Loan Watch | Real Madrid

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

He's a better finisher, that's about it. Welbeck offers much more to the team and link-up play.

When you have good #10's, all you need upfront is someone who can put the ball in the net. Hernandez does that much better than Wellbeck.

 

[Grinner]

Just hit the post against BiH....and then dived poorly a few mins later.

 

[one340]

Just hit the post against BiH....and then dived poorly a few mins later.

true but the first touch before that strike was lovely. can anyone gif it?

 

[bosnian_red]

true but the first touch before that strike was lovely. can anyone gif it?

Was amazing, always laugh when people still say his first touch is shit when it quite clearly isn't.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Never a first choice. Great finisher but physically weak, shocking first touch and ball control sometimes. And yes, plays better coming off the bench than starting games.

His game is not based on physicality and he doesn't have a bad first touch at all. You guys are really stereotyping him and he actually shows a bigger array of offensive skill set when he plays for Mexico. He's already 3rd on Mexico's all time scoring list and just about every other premier league team would love to have him. I'm surprised at how under appreciated he is by some United fans.

 

[Loublaze]

His game is not based on physicality and he doesn't have a bad first touch at all. You guys are really stereotyping him and he actually shows a bigger array of offensive skill set when he plays for Mexico. He's already 3rd on Mexico's all time scoring list and just about every other premier league team would love to have him. I'm surprised at how under appreciated he is by some United fans.

His record for Mexico is fine but it won't win us titles at OT now will it? He's a superb finisher. He's just not regular starting material and you know it. Now if he can accept that then its all good. If not, he's free to look elsewhere, pat on the back and good luck.

 

[LR7]

I wouldn't mind if we sell him this summer, however Southampton is not his level and there is no way we should expect him to go there.

 

[MoneyMay]

I hate the double standards with Hernandez. Whenever he receives consistent game time he has scored and his intelligent movement almost always gives more space for the midfielders and the #10 to play more freely in the final third.

Just like Van Persie, Welbeck, and Rooney, who all possess intelligent movement... There is no doubt that he was poorly managed by Moyes - just like Kagawa, Cleverley, Mata and so on - but that's just half of the argument. When you are given a chance, you are meant to display why you should get more minutes. Unfortunately, Hernández's touch went back to its 11/12 ways. There's no reason why a professional footballer should not be able to maintain a decent touch, despite not playing as much as we would want.

The last time he received constant game time we reached the champions league final and won the league

This part of your post is nonsense IMO. It's flawed logic. The last time he received consistent playing time - as a first team player - was back in 11/12, and we lost the league. Fergie realised that he couldn't start Hernández as much, and that's why in 12/13 he was used in a role that suits him best (at a big club). Giving him consistent playing time from the bench (and starting him in FA Cup matches) helped him maintain a solid touch. Plus you don't have to worry that much about contributing to our build-up play. Whereas when he's used sporadically, he's more prone to forgetting how to hold up the ball and his touch reverts to mediocrity.

and there is absolutely no evidence that playing him weakens us in anyway.

There is evidence, though. There are many games, especially in 11/12, where he was very poor. If we're talking about this season, then Cardiff (A) is the only example needed.

 

[LR7]

It's his inability to hold up the ball that annoys me at times. In his defence, last season there were probably more long balls hoofed up to him which he struggled to keep hold of, which highlighted it more. We rarely played to his strengths. I love him to bits though. He loves (loved?) the club and is such a likeable character and he scores goals which is key however I wouldn't be against us selling him this summer.

 

[Havak]

It's hard to not like Hernandez, but you have to understand how he feels having to sit on the bench in favour of two or three other guys. To be fair, I'd say Rooney, van Persie, and Welbeck are all more versatile and better all-round players, but in the right side (which by all means could be this one) I wouldn't be surprised to see him outscore all of them in the same amount of minutes / games. It's just that maybe half the time, it feels like playing the game with ten men up until the opposing penalty area, although that's not always a bad thing if you can counter attack quick enough. This was also the case with van Persie a lot of the time under Moyes, as he was isolated and we never moved the ball quick enough.

If he stays, he'd probably be limited to a similar amount of chances to play as he has been in his whole United career, but I think he'd enjoy that time more under the new manager. It's not exactly the amount of games he plays as he's averaged about 38 per season with us, it's just the amount of starts and minutes. At 26-years-old though, it probably is the time to find a team that will give him 40+ games a season with most of them being starts and full games. I suppose 90% of the teams in world football would take this guy as a starting striker, it's only the very best teams with the brilliant forwards that wouldn't. He's good enough to make it in any league and is obviously good enough for a Champions League level team as well, so if he leaves all the best to him, just don't score against us if we ever face you.

 

[united_99]

We have to get rid off at least one striker, especially with Wilson coming through. So I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves, I just hope he joins a good team outside the PL.

 

[Chicharito_]

When you have good #10's, all you need upfront is someone who can put the ball in the net. Hernandez does that much better than Wellbeck.

That kind of player at the top level who can only finish and doesn't add much more is really fading out of the very top clubs.

Look at the best teams in the world, all their strikers can finish and be great all round players. I'm happy for Hernandez to stay but if he wants to be in the first 11 week in week out then it's time for him to find a new club I believe.

 

[Kag]

When you have good #10's, all you need upfront is someone who can put the ball in the net. Hernandez does that much better than Wellbeck.

This kind of thinking hasn't been relevant for a good while. The centre forward in the modern 4231 has to act as the focal point of attacks, hold the ball up and use it wisely. Hernandez struggles to do this, and it's the reason his next move won't be to the kind of club many of his supporters seem to think. Fantastic backup, but few clubs with ambition will plump for him as their first choice lone centre forward.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

His record for Mexico is fine but it won't win us titles at OT now will it? He's a superb finisher. He's just not regular starting material and you know it. Now if he can accept that then its all good. If not, he's free to look elsewhere, pat on the back and good luck.

I'm suggesting his ability to be a much better player if given the responsibility. He might not be starting caliber when you have RvP but he suits the role of first sub/back up starter perfectly if we decide to balance out our squad by moving some redundant pieces in strike department to address other needs. He's not bad at all and his development stalled once we started moving him in and out of the side a little too much.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Just like Van Persie, Welbeck, and Rooney, who all possess intelligent movement... There is no doubt that he was poorly managed by Moyes - just like Kagawa, Cleverley, Mata and so on - but that's just half of the argument. When you are given a chance, you are meant to display why you should get more minutes. Unfortunately, Hernández's touch went back to its 11/12 ways. There's no reason why a professional footballer should not be able to maintain a decent touch, despite not playing as much as we would want.



This part of your post is nonsense IMO. It's flawed logic. The last time he received consistent playing time - as a first team player - was back in 11/12, and we lost the league. Fergie realised that he couldn't start Hernández as much, and that's why in 12/13 he was used in a role that suits him best (at a big club). Giving him consistent playing time from the bench (and starting him in FA Cup matches) helped him maintain a solid touch. Plus you don't have to worry that much about contributing to our build-up play. Whereas when he's used sporadically, he's more prone to forgetting how to hold up the ball and his touch reverts to mediocrity.



There is evidence, though. There are many games, especially in 11/12, where he was very poor. If we're talking about this season, then Cardiff (A) is the only example needed.

He had one very bad season in 11/12 and he came under higher scrutiny because his debut season exceeded all expectations. 12/13 was likely his perfect role and I agree with that.

The importance of Hernandez is that he doesn't need the ball to create opportunities. He has a constant and intelligent movement at very good pace that keeps the center backs in scrambling positions and his runs create space for others to profit from. Its no coincidence that Rooney has always had very good games with Hernandez and even the short spells he had with RvP last season were very good so even if his touch is not good for some games he can add some value.

When you have invested so much in #10s like Mata, Kagawa and soon Januzaz it would make a lot of sense to keep a striker like him and give him regular game time. The idea of magnifying his short comings and not highlighting his qualities in this thread is something I find rather disappointing.

 

[Loublaze]

I'm suggesting his ability to be a much better player if given the responsibility. He might not be starting caliber when you have RvP but he suits the role of first sub/back up starter perfectly if we decide to balance out our squad by moving some redundant pieces in strike department to address other needs. He's not bad at all and his development stalled once we started moving him in and out of the side a little too much.

Moyes really cut him off didn't he? Fergie gave him more game time. Lets see how LVG views this.

 

[Nucks]

I think he should leave. Not because I don't like him. I actually feel like he is a fantastic arrow in the quiver, however I think he is better suited at this point in his career moving on. He could do very well for a top club that can play with a more out and out poacher. With the right fit, he could score A LOT of goals.

 

[Gladiator]

This kind of thinking hasn't been relevant for a good while. The centre forward in the modern 4231 has to act as the focal point of attacks, hold the ball up and use it wisely. Hernandez struggles to do this, and it's the reason his next move won't be to the kind of club many of his supporters seem to think. Fantastic backup, but few clubs with ambition will plump for him as their first choice lone centre forward.

Part of the reason perhaps why goal poachers are going out of fashion may be more to do with how teams setup defensively. The game is becoming tighter in terms of space availability

 

[Gladiator]

Moyes really cut him off didn't he? Fergie gave him more game time. Lets see how LVG views this.

Feel like LVG would let him go. May not be a great example but Huntelaar is known for being a goal poacher more than a well-rounded forward and he's down the pecking order in LVG's dutch system despite pundits and fans clamoring for a Hunterlaar-van Persie partnership. Seems like van Gaal likes his strikers to be able to comfortably be involved in build up play and right now, Hernandez isnt at that consistent level

 

[Bwuk]

I'd rather sell Welbeck than Chicharito.

 

[Loublaze]

I'd rather sell Welbeck than Chicharito.

Very unlikely. I think LVG prefers players like Welbeck.

 

[Offside]

I'd rather sell Welbeck than Chicharito.

Same here. If van Persie has another season injured all the time, Hernandez and Mata would hurt teams in his absence.

 

[one340]

Same here. If van Persie has another season injured all the time, Hernandez and Mata would hurt teams in his absence.

the very limited times they played together they did play very well.

 

[SilentWitness]

I'd rather sell Welbeck than Chicharito.

Aye, i think most top clubs need someone like Hernandez who is a pure finisher. With Welbeck he does offer you that technical ability and can play out wide where he will run his socks off but with decent investment that can be replaced by good CMs and wingers who can slot in to help the full-backs.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Aye, i think most top clubs need someone like Hernandez who is a pure finisher. With Welbeck he does offer you that technical ability and can play out wide where he will run his socks off but with decent investment that can be replaced by good CMs and wingers who can slot in to help the full-backs.

Pretty much this. Do we really need a striker whose strength is his willingness to drop back and get involved in the build up when you have so much invested in 2 top quality #10s and are looking to buy CMs and wingers with a lot more creative output? We'd need better finishers that dispatch those chances at a high rate and not let the defense play high and squeeze up the space. This is why I feel RvP and Hernandez should be our top options and we should listen to offers for Rooney and Welbeck.

 

[Livvie]

I feel more confident of a goal when Hernandez plays than I do when Welbeck plays. Welbeck flatters to deceive imo.

 

[Kag]

But Hernandez isn't very good at the football part of it, which is the glaring issue, and one that will see him at a weaker club than many people initially predict.

 

[Empire]

Rumours are he'll go for £10m, is that all he is worth?

 

[Walrus]

I would still like to see us do a Lukaku-style season long loan to a club like Everton. Get him playing regularly at a good level to show what he can do, next season it wouldn't surprise me if RVP was on the way out, so back comes Hernandez.

Alternately assuming he does well for a year with Everton, his market value will go up and we can sell him next summer. Or he proves to be a disappointment (doubtful) and we can move him along next summer if he isn't prepared to be 3rd choice.


We went a couple of years where the team was crying out for a goalscorer like Hernandez. RVP can do it but he has a poor injury record and I really don't see both him and Rooney staying beyond next season - one will leave, I'm sure of it, and then Hernandez will have an opportunity to really come into his own.

 

[#07]

I feel more confident of a goal when Hernandez plays than I do when Welbeck plays. Welbeck flatters to deceive imo.

Agree. Welbeck is good at a lot of things that are secondary when you are a striker. The key attribute, goal scoring, he doesn't excel at unlike Chico.

 

[Shinjisan]

Rumours are he'll go for £10m, is that all he is worth?

Probably, after the season he has had. Could have fetched us close to €20m if we sold him last summer.

 

[Jaxa]

I honestly wouldn't want us to accept anything below 20m, were always getting done up the arse with low fees but considering a defender like David Luiz is worth 40+ million hernandez who is only 26 should never be allowed to leave for anything below 20m unless used as a make weight for another player.

 

[Suus]

I saw a twitterfeed linking him with a £10m move to Internazionale. I'm having issues with us getting a higher price for him, considering his lack of playing time. If we'd sold him after the first year, we couldve probably gotten £25m for Hernandez, but now, two years in the shadows of Robin, Welbeck and Wayne, I cant see him delivering a high enough sum.

I am under the opinion that if we cannot give a player enough playing time, we should be honest about it and let them go. This isnt the 3rd Reich, or Bayern Munich, we need to respect our players and let them persue careers in other clubs if we cannot guarantee them the time they need. And with Robin, Danny and Wayne, and van Gaal's new, most likely, 4-3-3, I cannot see us having room for a 4th striker. Bar injuries, we will not rotate as much, as under the Reign of Fergie.

He's a magnificent player when used properly, and a deadly finisher, and he could do what Forlan & Rossi did - goto spain and score 20-30goals a season and become a star on the heights of Costa, Falcao, and the two beforementioned.

 

[Empire]

I saw a twitterfeed linking him with a £10m move to Internazionale. I'm having issues with us getting a higher price for him, considering his lack of playing time. If we'd sold him after the first year, we couldve probably gotten £25m for Hernandez, but now, two years in the shadows of Robin, Welbeck and Wayne, I cant see him delivering a high enough sum.

I am under the opinion that if we cannot give a player enough playing time, we should be honest about it and let them go. This isnt the 3rd Reich, or Bayern Munich, we need to respect our players and let them persue careers in other clubs if we cannot guarantee them the time they need. And with Robin, Danny and Wayne, and van Gaal's new, most likely, 4-3-3, I cannot see us having room for a 4th striker. Bar injuries, we will not rotate as much, as under the Reign of Fergie.

He's a magnificent player when used properly, and a deadly finisher, and he could do what Forlan & Rossi did - goto spain and score 20-30goals a season and become a star on the heights of Costa, Falcao, and the two beforementioned.

Why not just loan him out for a season to get the playing time. The club he is loaned to pays his wages, if he performs his value is higher once more and we might even decide to keep him.

At the very least we should sell him with a buy back option because he really could go somewhere and do brilliantly whilst we find RVP ages, Welbeck doesn't step up and Rooney holds us ransom for a third time.

 

[MUFC07]

Not in the XI for tomorrow, which is probably our best weapon in this WC: his ability to impact games after the 65th minute.

 

[sajeev]

Not in the XI for tomorrow, which is probably our best weapon in this WC: his ability to impact games after the 65th minute.

why so early? wouldn't it be better to just wait and then announce at the mandated time?

 

[Get In Scholesy]

No surprises there if true. Miguel Herrera dropped Hernandez (as well as the other big name players) since he started his tenure. Focussed more on the talent within Mexico rather than abroad. Must say, it proved effective as they qualified.

 

[adexkola]

No surprises there if true. Miguel Herrera dropped Hernandez (as well as the other big name players) since he started his tenure. Focussed more on the talent within Mexico rather than abroad. Must say, it proved effective as they qualified.

Only by winning a playoff game against New Zealand

 

[Get In Scholesy]

Only by winning a playoff game against New Zealand

This is true. But Herrera has also only coached in Mexico, so that may point to why he prefers players playing in the Mexican league.

 

[Juan't Mata]

We cannot continue to keep all 6 of RVP/Rooney/Mata/Kagawa/Chico/Welbeck on the books. We don't need 3 strikeforces when we don't even have European footy to give them all a game.

Sell Chico and Kagawa IMO.