Could easily be flirting with relegation by January at this rate
I actually feel like we could match up better against the good teams than shit bus parkers like Forest.
Chelsea 2023/24 season thread.
- Thread starter duffer
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I actually feel like we could match up better against the good teams than shit bus parkers like Forest.
Not wanting to be alarmist, bit, we're averaging 1 point a game. We've played Liverpool, West Ham, Luton and Forest. Not strong teams bar Liverpool. Table doesn't lie.
That's relegation form and it can't be ruled out unless we learn how to score again. Better hope Nkunku comes back 100% and Carney soon.
That's relegation form and it can't be ruled out unless we learn how to score again. Better hope Nkunku comes back 100% and Carney soon.
Don't worry. Us, Luton, SU and Burnley are shite.
Liverpool and West Ham away are tough games. It was a bad loss at West Ham, but that’s typically been a tough ground for us for years. Our record there the last 5-7 years is trash.
Yesterday’s loss is what is giving it last season Potter vibes. I saw so many games like that last season.
Chelsea laughing all the way to the bank with the sales of Havertz and Mount.
I think if Chelsea signs another 50 players, they might start getting a solid team base.
The Athletic predicting the January transfer window…
Well, what a transfer window that was! January 2024, we will never forget it. A series of football players were transferred — in exchange for money — from one club to another. It really was memorable.
In many ways, it was completely different to all the windows that have gone before it.
Although then again, there was a surprise twist no one saw coming when Chelsea broke the British transfer record to sign Brighton’s Julio Enciso for £140million.
New Chelsea boss Frank Lampard spoke of his delight as Enciso put pen to paper on a 17-year contract with the option of an 18th.
“We’ve signed so many Brighton playerswe’re thinking of wearing blue and white stripes,” Lampard wisecracked, before adding: “No, but seriously, he’s a fantastic player and we can’t wait for him to help us try and finish in the top half.”
full article: https://theathletic.com/4825257/202...r-window-imagined/?source=user_shared_article
Well, what a transfer window that was! January 2024, we will never forget it. A series of football players were transferred — in exchange for money — from one club to another. It really was memorable.
In many ways, it was completely different to all the windows that have gone before it.
Although then again, there was a surprise twist no one saw coming when Chelsea broke the British transfer record to sign Brighton’s Julio Enciso for £140million.
New Chelsea boss Frank Lampard spoke of his delight as Enciso put pen to paper on a 17-year contract with the option of an 18th.
“We’ve signed so many Brighton playerswe’re thinking of wearing blue and white stripes,” Lampard wisecracked, before adding: “No, but seriously, he’s a fantastic player and we can’t wait for him to help us try and finish in the top half.”
full article: https://theathletic.com/4825257/202...r-window-imagined/?source=user_shared_article
Ready for this? I’ll make a take that has Chelsea fans dislike me almost as much as other fanbases do:
Why has every manager to come in eventually settled on a 3 at the back?
If they are to grind themselves out of this funk that is a pivotal question that needs answering. I think the answer is that it’s the only way to accommodate Thiago Silva. His class on the ball is still elite. His ability to read the game and often be in the right place? Awesome. But he cannot be isolated at the back.
This team looks like a team more worried about getting beat than they are determined to go forward and win.
At some point they either need to accept that Silva could find himself in position where his age hurts him, live with it and move on…. Or try a different pairing at the back. Until Badiashile is healthy, Chalobah would get the nod over Desasi for me.
Everything seems too cautious. If Jackson is coming back to the mid line to pick up the ball and progress it, then people are not on the same page. He isnt that guy . Being down near the end of the game and Holding the ball up to play trangles out wide of the box before deciding what inept cross to toss into an overcrowded box… is just a bad strategy.
We also needed SOME veteran creativity in the middle. I give them some leeway here because Nkunku was supposed to be that guy. But Sterling isn’t that guy. He’s a direct attacker, not a creator.
And when you have only the younger kids … let them make mistakes (that goes for the ruthless fanbase as well). For their development I would have rather lost that game 2-1 or 3-2 making both mistakes and chances than watch them tinker around the field with 78% possession to no effect.
Why has every manager to come in eventually settled on a 3 at the back?
If they are to grind themselves out of this funk that is a pivotal question that needs answering. I think the answer is that it’s the only way to accommodate Thiago Silva. His class on the ball is still elite. His ability to read the game and often be in the right place? Awesome. But he cannot be isolated at the back.
This team looks like a team more worried about getting beat than they are determined to go forward and win.
At some point they either need to accept that Silva could find himself in position where his age hurts him, live with it and move on…. Or try a different pairing at the back. Until Badiashile is healthy, Chalobah would get the nod over Desasi for me.
Everything seems too cautious. If Jackson is coming back to the mid line to pick up the ball and progress it, then people are not on the same page. He isnt that guy . Being down near the end of the game and Holding the ball up to play trangles out wide of the box before deciding what inept cross to toss into an overcrowded box… is just a bad strategy.
We also needed SOME veteran creativity in the middle. I give them some leeway here because Nkunku was supposed to be that guy. But Sterling isn’t that guy. He’s a direct attacker, not a creator.
And when you have only the younger kids … let them make mistakes (that goes for the ruthless fanbase as well). For their development I would have rather lost that game 2-1 or 3-2 making both mistakes and chances than watch them tinker around the field with 78% possession to no effect.
I ….. actually agree with a lot of that.
Love to see it. Humphreys has actually gone under the radar a bit but he’s another really good player out of Cobham. He’s not far off Colwill’s level. Was surprised he couldn’t get a PL loan. Hope he has a strong season at Swansea.
I agree with all of THAT .
I think Bashir could be special, and I think a solid loan is better than staying and not playing. I think they believe Bashir is as good or better than Chalobah, and that is what made Chalobah sellable in their mid Summer thinking. (This is going off my “you only keep academy players if they are starters, you finance the squad players and use the profits” theory)
Flood the team with young, raw, unproven talents, and then wonder why the results are so inconsistent.
There is just no way this Chelsea team challenges for top 4 as it stands. Literally hoping for a young talent who couldn’t get a game for Villa to come back and improve things.
I think that says it all about this project.
There is just no way this Chelsea team challenges for top 4 as it stands. Literally hoping for a young talent who couldn’t get a game for Villa to come back and improve things.
I think that says it all about this project.
They said it is a project, so perhaps they don't want to challenge now.
Seeing them sign a player like palmer (who has amazing potential) over someone like Madison or Jackson (who has potential) over someone like Oshimen or lavia (has amazing potential) over someone like Paulinha tells me that chelsea strategy is for the long term and not short term.
I think a lot of chelsea fans are confused about what their project is.
The problem is at least half of these young talents won’t end up being good enough, and they have them on 7-8 year deals.
It’s no coincidence that a World Cup winner in Enzo and a seasoned vet like Sterling have been their two brightest players so far.
Yea, I think they are trying to follow a formula that is somewhat similar to what Arsenal did last season (even though Arsenal had few young players a lot of them weren't that unknown).
Some of the players chelsea has bought haven't made any significant contributions for over one season. Even their most expensive midfielder in Caceido only had 1 good season at Brighton.
I don't think what they are doing (the massive ingoings and outgoing, and the faith in young unproven players) has been done before in football. However, I m fascinated to see if it does work. I believe they have lot of good young talents who are still raw, but I don't know how that will equate to getting good results consistently.
Even Pochettino said that you will need to have an a mix of young players and experience players. Chelsea went full out with recruiting mostly young players. It is interesting to see how it turns out though. They haven’t been playing badly, but no doubt if they had some experience players a lot of their dropped points would have been turned to 3 points. Paulinha isn't making those mistake that Caceido made, and a player like oshimen or vlahovic is scoring at least 3 goals from all the chances they have created so far.
I mean that young player from Villa has improved a helluva lot since we got him. You’re talking as if not getting game time at age 18 means he’s doomed to never be good enough for Villa. He also wouldn’t be a starter at Chelsea if everyone is fit anyway, but he’s shown to be an important squad player so far and that’s great. Don’t know why you think fans being encouraged by Chukwuemeka is somehow a negative thing, especially when he’s clearly started the season very well and he showed he could potentially be the answer in Nkunku’s absence.
No problem with him or him doing well. The problem is that you also need Gusto, Caicedo, Lavia, Colwill, Mudryk, Madueke, Chukwuemeka, Jackson, all to do well in the first team from the off. The maximum experience there is a couple of seasons at lesser clubs, the minimum is less than 50 games at the top level, and you need the majority of them to be first team ready immediately.
There isn’t enough experience in the team and the fact that Chukwuemeka’s absence is making a difference so early in the season, after spending 1 billion, is a pretty damning indictment of the project.
It’s not Chukwuemeka’s absence in isolation that is making a difference. It’s his absence on top of Nkunku’s absence. We have Palmer now and potentially Maatsen who can deputise there but realistically you can only have so many players to fulfil a specific role. Again, if he’s elevated himself to a point where he’s become important to the team, then that is not a negative thing.
I don’t disagree with your overall point that basically all of the money has been spent on up and coming young talents with potential, which is a super, super risky strategy because it’s a guarantee that quite a few of them won’t be that good in the end, you’re right. I was just pushing back against the idea that Chukwuemeka being an important player is somehow an example of how bad the team, or the ‘project’, is.
Sorry if it came across that way, it wasn’t a criticism of him as a player, just the fact that so many young players performances are crucial to the season.
Chelsea fans, in particular, need to understand also that they have titled this whole thing “project 2030” from the very beginning; not “project 2024”. In the coming few years we will get to the point where FFP allows only 70% of income EACH year. So you can’t even make it up on a rolling average. Things will get very tight for all teams.
Now, they bought players like Nkunku and are still paying guys like Sterling to try and be competitive now, but if important people get hurt, then youth will have to play.
City also realizes this is coming. They are seeding their team with next gen replacements, selling assets, and buying new, younger assets to aid revenue offsets.
Madrid also pre-bought their next generation to an extent.
We just didnt have the right veteran core to do both frankly.
It will still be preferable, long term, to having an aging squad 3 years from now and suddenly realizing you are VERY limited in how much of the team can be turned over, even with amortization.
And if Chelsea’s picks don’t pan out? Well, they are buying the very top rated talent in large quantities at youth level. That’s youth investment. If Angelo Gabriel, Diego Moriera, Omari Hutchinson, Noni Madueke, or Cole Palmer really pan out … GREAT! If they don’t they are still likely to be high enough quality to make 20 to 30 minimum on the market. You can buy a select player in your profile, and then refill the pipeline with … more youth investment.
Why would so many talents sign up for this? Because they probably aren’t being sold on playing for Chelsea. The approach is probably very direct: we will tailor plans for your development that involve making excellent money, preparing you as a player, and making sure you play high level professional football. If they want to be the guy at Chelsea, awesome. But primarily most of them first and foremost want a career. There are Cobham players littering the starting 11 of first division teams throughout Europe, including some of the very best
The beginning will be the toughest. That’s why I say Id rather see the players have the freedom to make mistakes if the younger players are going to play. If the plan is for the team to “grow into” a great squad, then they need that freedom.
But the fanbase needs to give it to them. They need to give it to the manager as well.
I said last year that the impatience of Chelsea fans was the greatest threat to this project. And if you don’t give any leeway to the managers, and the owners capitulate, then you will get managers coaching the way Poch is right now: with their sphincters clinched … and more anxious than ambitious.
Little moments can change everything. I genuinely believe if Nkunku doesn’t get hurt we are undefeated at this point. That moment derailed everything we built on in preseason. But we can’t let it derail the whole idea behind what they are building. And that’s going to depend on Chelsea fans.
Ditch the 3 at the back. Ditch Colwill having to play LB most of the game. Do t hold up your attacks to make sure the players behind you are spaced to stop a counter that may not happen. Be more positive in the middle of the pitch.
There could be some major errors. But there could also be some positivity, scoring and fun as well. If we want them to grow, then Let them grow.
Now, they bought players like Nkunku and are still paying guys like Sterling to try and be competitive now, but if important people get hurt, then youth will have to play.
City also realizes this is coming. They are seeding their team with next gen replacements, selling assets, and buying new, younger assets to aid revenue offsets.
Madrid also pre-bought their next generation to an extent.
We just didnt have the right veteran core to do both frankly.
It will still be preferable, long term, to having an aging squad 3 years from now and suddenly realizing you are VERY limited in how much of the team can be turned over, even with amortization.
And if Chelsea’s picks don’t pan out? Well, they are buying the very top rated talent in large quantities at youth level. That’s youth investment. If Angelo Gabriel, Diego Moriera, Omari Hutchinson, Noni Madueke, or Cole Palmer really pan out … GREAT! If they don’t they are still likely to be high enough quality to make 20 to 30 minimum on the market. You can buy a select player in your profile, and then refill the pipeline with … more youth investment.
Why would so many talents sign up for this? Because they probably aren’t being sold on playing for Chelsea. The approach is probably very direct: we will tailor plans for your development that involve making excellent money, preparing you as a player, and making sure you play high level professional football. If they want to be the guy at Chelsea, awesome. But primarily most of them first and foremost want a career. There are Cobham players littering the starting 11 of first division teams throughout Europe, including some of the very best
The beginning will be the toughest. That’s why I say Id rather see the players have the freedom to make mistakes if the younger players are going to play. If the plan is for the team to “grow into” a great squad, then they need that freedom.
But the fanbase needs to give it to them. They need to give it to the manager as well.
I said last year that the impatience of Chelsea fans was the greatest threat to this project. And if you don’t give any leeway to the managers, and the owners capitulate, then you will get managers coaching the way Poch is right now: with their sphincters clinched … and more anxious than ambitious.
Little moments can change everything. I genuinely believe if Nkunku doesn’t get hurt we are undefeated at this point. That moment derailed everything we built on in preseason. But we can’t let it derail the whole idea behind what they are building. And that’s going to depend on Chelsea fans.
Ditch the 3 at the back. Ditch Colwill having to play LB most of the game. Do t hold up your attacks to make sure the players behind you are spaced to stop a counter that may not happen. Be more positive in the middle of the pitch.
There could be some major errors. But there could also be some positivity, scoring and fun as well. If we want them to grow, then Let them grow.
I have a theory that thats a Mourinho hangover. He kind of imprinted his values on the club and the fanbase and when things get shaky your first instinct is to Mourinho it (focus on avoiding mistakes).
If everything goes well, you might have a team that might compete in 2030! Believe in the project!
Chelsea in talks with Riyadh Air, regarding a £60m front of shirt sponsorship according to the Athletic.
IMO the difference is Chelsea have changed half the team (and manager, multiple times) in one year. Arteta was given 2-3 years to rebuild our squad. It's too much change at once.
So a company owned by PIF, who happens to have funds invested in the owners' of Chelsea's investment fund, is offering sponsorship money.
We're good.
You're overall point is actually pretty spot on. A lot is riding on very young, inexperienced players developing into excellent reliable players.
Colour me surprised.
They were already a bit of a plaything separated from the normal running of a football club under Abromovich so it hardly makes a difference. Just a bit more transparent now. Another club to add to the dumpster with Newcastle and the others.
Yea true, that is why I said somewhat similar. Still a lot of differences. The squad overhaul wasn't as massive at Arsenal and I believe Arsenal fans were comfortable not winning the title or even get top four to see their players develop. Chelsea on the other hand, expectations seems ingrained that every season they must challenge for title and win things. So the pressure is much higher at Chelsea and such a project will be hard to undergo without a change of expectations and culture.
They're better than their results but still have a lot of issues.
The squad just hasn't been constructed with any clear tactical plan in mind and it shows.
With James, Chilwell, Cucurella, and Malo Gusto they've got a squad that really leans toward wingbacks or a prime Liverpool type setup with fullbacks getting forward and filling the outside lanes. James is good enough to do anything if healthy. But the others are more wingback than fullback and you don't get the best out of James unless he has license to get forward. If you want a balanced side with five players in the attacking lanes and five adopting more defensive roles, that leaves you with two options. Play three at the back and wingbacks or play a 4-3-3 with a very industrious midfield that controls the middle but doesn't fully join the attack. My suspicion is that Chelsea might eventually move in the latter direction but they couldn't at the beginning of the season because they literally didn't have the midfielders for it.
Either way, one of the issues is that if you have fullbacks/wingbacks filling the outside lanes, your "wide" attackers need to be players who are comfortable in the channels and half spaces, not the outside. But Chelsea also bought multiple young wide attackers in Mudryk and Madueke who are best when occupying the outside lanes, not the interior. That's why Chilwell and Mudryk keep stepping on each others' feet and the same will eventually happen with Madueke and James/Gusto. Sterling can play more inside but its not really how you get the best out of him. Nkunku is the only natural operator in those spaces but he is injured and its still completely unknown how well he'll adapt from the Bundesliga to PL football. His return could end up being a huge midseason boost but its not a given whatsoever that he becomes a top player in the PL. Cole Palmer remains a bit of an unknown but my bet is that Pep has been coaching him to play the RW like Mahrez or Bernardo and to occupy the far outside channel most of the time, not the inside. His game may be malleable enough to adapt but that's going to require an adjustment as well. You could play guys like Carney or Gallagher in these roles but my suspicion is that the end product just isn't really there to ever make them strong options. When you have wingbacks/fullbacks as your wide attackers in the five lanes (as opposed to having true forwards like Saka/Martinelli or Grealish/Bernardo) then you need the middle three attackers to really bring the goods in terms of producing in the final third.
I think Jackson has shown positive signs so far but they really need him to pop because the rest of the attack doesn't fit together very well and doesn't have a lot of goals to offer.
Overall, this is the product of having a lot of different chefs in the kitchen and an overall club emphasis from Boehly that has focused on the idea of buying talent in the abstract rather than buying players who fit a particular kind of football.
The squad just hasn't been constructed with any clear tactical plan in mind and it shows.
With James, Chilwell, Cucurella, and Malo Gusto they've got a squad that really leans toward wingbacks or a prime Liverpool type setup with fullbacks getting forward and filling the outside lanes. James is good enough to do anything if healthy. But the others are more wingback than fullback and you don't get the best out of James unless he has license to get forward. If you want a balanced side with five players in the attacking lanes and five adopting more defensive roles, that leaves you with two options. Play three at the back and wingbacks or play a 4-3-3 with a very industrious midfield that controls the middle but doesn't fully join the attack. My suspicion is that Chelsea might eventually move in the latter direction but they couldn't at the beginning of the season because they literally didn't have the midfielders for it.
Either way, one of the issues is that if you have fullbacks/wingbacks filling the outside lanes, your "wide" attackers need to be players who are comfortable in the channels and half spaces, not the outside. But Chelsea also bought multiple young wide attackers in Mudryk and Madueke who are best when occupying the outside lanes, not the interior. That's why Chilwell and Mudryk keep stepping on each others' feet and the same will eventually happen with Madueke and James/Gusto. Sterling can play more inside but its not really how you get the best out of him. Nkunku is the only natural operator in those spaces but he is injured and its still completely unknown how well he'll adapt from the Bundesliga to PL football. His return could end up being a huge midseason boost but its not a given whatsoever that he becomes a top player in the PL. Cole Palmer remains a bit of an unknown but my bet is that Pep has been coaching him to play the RW like Mahrez or Bernardo and to occupy the far outside channel most of the time, not the inside. His game may be malleable enough to adapt but that's going to require an adjustment as well. You could play guys like Carney or Gallagher in these roles but my suspicion is that the end product just isn't really there to ever make them strong options. When you have wingbacks/fullbacks as your wide attackers in the five lanes (as opposed to having true forwards like Saka/Martinelli or Grealish/Bernardo) then you need the middle three attackers to really bring the goods in terms of producing in the final third.
I think Jackson has shown positive signs so far but they really need him to pop because the rest of the attack doesn't fit together very well and doesn't have a lot of goals to offer.
Overall, this is the product of having a lot of different chefs in the kitchen and an overall club emphasis from Boehly that has focused on the idea of buying talent in the abstract rather than buying players who fit a particular kind of football.
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Riyadh Air
Founded: 12 March 2023
Destinations: 0
Aircraft in service: Boeing 787-9 (0)
Not dodgy at all.
Same sponsor as Atletico Madrid? No thanks.
I remember when Chelsea fans on here were telling me I was seeing things that weren't there when I suggested that it wasn't simply a coincidence that three PIF owned clubs suddenly bought multiple unwanted Chelsea players.
It's unusual in the top flight but big overhauls are pretty common in the lower leagues.
Exeter City changed their manager and have all but 6 players signed this calender year yet sit top of league one.
Sorry think you're wrong there re: how big our overhaul was. Now Xhaka has gone, there are no players in the squad that were there before him, not counting the academy or young players like Smith Rowe, Nelson, Nketiah and Saka. Of our usual starting 11, 8 players were bought by Arteta. Of the 3 who precede Arteta, one academy (Saka) and two youngsters (Martinelli and Saliba) brought in by Emery. He has completely transformed us.
Agreed the pressure to get results immediately is higher at Chelsea. It's been clear Arteta was always going to be given time to execute his plan by the owners. Not sure Boehly has as much patience.
Can't say I watch the lower leagues much but I guess it would be easier to throw money at it and get instant results as the quality isn't as high.
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I mean, technically you're not wrong as it was two of them, but we're really tiptoeing the line by using "multiple".
Bit early to go full on Ole isnt it?
I don't follow Arsenal as much, but was all those changes done in 1 transfer window? Chelsea this summer signed around 8 players and let go of around 11. I do not believe Arsenal overhaul in just 1 transfer window was as massive.
I believe Bohley has seen that the quick to success model with tuchel and potters wasn't what he wanted, so I believe he values a long term project with the right manager. If that wasn't the case, he would have bought more first team experience and established player. I don't know what Bohley plan is, but what I do know is that Pochettino is doing well with the young squad he has, but the result of his project definitely won't be seen in its first season. A great accomplishment will be a champion league place and I believe when nkunku returns, they can make a stronger push.
I believe Pochettino has been the most unlucky manager so far. You can't have these type of stats below and not be at least top four. I just feel that Pochettino should not listen to random noise and continue doing what he is doing (beside chilwell at lw
)I think I posted it at the time Ziyech was rumoured to be leaving. Forgot that he never went there.