Cheering on Liverpool - 2017/18 edition

[B20]

I don’t see that being comparable in the slightest. Sod English football; there’s no way United would have gained anything from a Liverpool victory in a CL final. A team that’s below us in the table taking points off one that’s above us would generally be regarded as a gap-narrowing good thing.

If we’re worried about failing to secure the fourth place trophy with so much of the season left, then we really have got problems

There's 3 points between 2nd and 5th place, which is occupied by a very good team that finished 2nd with more points than anyone bar city are likely to finish with this season.

Chanting 'we are united' as if it means something doesn't count for anything. You finished 6th last season. A top four finish is far from a given. At the end of the season, one very good team that deems itself too good to miss out on top four will have missed out. No one from 2nd to 5th should think they have a comfortable finish ahead of them at this stage.

 

[kouroux]

I don’t see that being comparable in the slightest. Sod English football; there’s no way United would have gained anything from a Liverpool victory in a CL final. A team that’s below us in the table taking points off one that’s above us would generally be regarded as a gap-narrowing good thing.

If we’re worried about failing to secure the fourth place trophy with so much of the season left, then we really have got problems

But we do have problems securing a top 4 spot if recent years are anything to consider. Where is this arrogance coming from ?

 

[kouroux]

This is so obvious it beggars belief that it needs pointing out. Lot of weird posts in this thread. Even if it wasn’t Liverpool then a team who’s so close behind us - in what’s gonna be a ding dong battle for CL places - picking up 3 points against City is bad news. But it was Liverpool. Which made their win even more excruciating. Pure madness to be pleased about last night’s result. The caf has officially gone to the dogs.

I am seriously lost for words. There is a logic that makes zero sense to me in wanting Liverpool to win.

 

[Norris]

I am seriously lost for words. There is a logic that makes zero sense to me in wanting Liverpool to win.

If the game had finished 4-1 to Liverpool, I would have been happy that City Lost. 4-3 and it's mostly indifference. I am not really worried about Liverpool. I doubt they can raise their game every single time like they did against City. Smaller teams have shown how to stop them from scoring. They'll drop points in my opinion. I am more interested to see how City handle a sudden run of games if they drop points. I strongly question their mental character.

 

[DreamIsh]

Its all very confusing in here... if I didn’t know any better, I’d think you have a secret crush on us or something.

It’s a love hate relationship I suppose.

In all seriousness we won’t know if us winning is a good thing for you or not until City’s next game. After this loss they either crumble and go on a bad run of form OR they smack everyone silly 5-0

Personally I think they’ll go on another unbeaten run again until the end of the season... I can’t see them falling apart. But the idea that this loss would have affected them mentally isn’t out of this world.

 

[jojojo]

You obviously didn’t grow up in the Liverpool era

Well yeah. If you're under thirty, you'll recognise Liverpool as the traditional enemy, but you won't know first hand why it burned so much.

If you're over about 55 though, you'll also feel glad that Leeds have spent years in their own special hell. Plus there will be enough memories of relegation (and bricks through the bus window after matches) to mean that even today's City can rekindle old and firy memories.

As to the more practical matter. One game at a time. City lost their unbeaten PL record yesterday - now I'd like to see teams knock them both out of the Cups - no records for them. What happens to us in terms of second is up to us, we are in the driving seat there, so tonight we have to beat Stoke.

 

[B20]

If the game had finished 4-1 to Liverpool, I would have been happy that City Lost. 4-3 and it's mostly indifference. I am not really worried about Liverpool. I doubt they can raise their game every single time like they did against City. Smaller teams have shown how to stop them from scoring. They'll drop points in my opinion.

The only team outside of Manchester who have stopped us from scoring in the league this season has been wba.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

I was gobsmacked a few years ago when I was talking to a United fan - he was about 30 - who seemed to have little or no sense of the Liverpool rivalry and laughed and shook his head when I mentioned the Leeds thing. He assured me City were by far and away United's biggest rivals and that Arsenal and Chelsea were much bigger and more hated rivals than Liverpool.
He seemed to be under the impression I was some sort of far out, crazy old dude who was talking nonsense.

 

[utdman]

Can't understand United fans cheering Liverpool against City. 0-0 or even 4-4 would have been the best result for us. We are never catching City this season.Liverpool look very good in the attack and have scored a lot more than us. They now have a momentum and confidence to catch us.

 

[Norris]

The only team outside of Manchester who have stopped us from scoring in the league this season has been wba.

Yep, fair enough. I should have phrased that as scoring enough. As good as they are attacking and they definitely are, they are still defensively very suspect. 8 draws is more than any other team in the top 6.

 

[arthurka]

We will finish over Liverpool... Like Bowie just sang in my ear and that is a fact..

 

[Rafateria]

City are not going to implode ... it's pretty ridiculous to think they will (or maybe it's just bravado on behalf of some posters). They will coast to the title because they have the best players and the best squad, as has been proven all season long.

All this talk of 'Liverpool will drop points', of course they will, every team will, it's not as if United are going to win all their remaining matches either, 15-16 matches apiece will see some shocks for all of the Top 6.

All this talk of 'not being worried about Liverpool' is bluster at best and downright idiocy at worst. Currently on an 18 game unbeaten streak in all competitions, have just beaten the EPL champions elect, have what appears to be the easiest run-in overall, and have gone some way to addressing their defensive woes which I can see improving all the way to the finish line (the way VvD took that defence by the scruff of the neck and shook the shit out of them vs. Everton showed that, as has Robertson by pocketing Sterling, he's proving an inspired signing at LB. Matip should do better too with VvD alongside him).

Top 4 (and the race for 2nd) is going to be a close run thing right to the finish line. The Sanchez signing could well make a huge difference for United though, I can see him popping up with goals when otherwise the team may struggle for the breakthrough.

United (H Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal A Spurs & City), Chelsea (H Liverpool & Spurs, A United & City), Liverpool (A United & Chelsea, H Spurs) and Spurs (A Liverpool & Chelsea, H Arsenal, United & City) all have games against each other that are real '6 pointers' and can make a real difference. And games against City could mean lost points with Arsenal too having the potential (esp. at home) to take points despite their poor form and loss of Sanchez. A clear advantage to Liverpool there as they only have 3 of these important tough(er) games remaining with United and Spurs having 5 apiece.

......... and then there's the CL waiting to throw a spanner in the works.

 

[P-Nut]

Liverpool now have a huge confidence boost, and form momentum. As we all learnt before, games in hand count for nothing unless you get the points. The onus is now on united to make a statement and boost confidence. Scraping a 1-0 win at home to managerless stoke might get us the points but will sew the seeds of doubt.

Plus I can’t wrap my head around the fact that people would rather our biggest rivals win just so that city don’t go through the season unbeaten. I really don’t see the logic in wanting the pack to catch up for that reason. City will come a cropper somewhere where they won’t expect it.

As it stands, lfc have as much chance of winning the league as we do if not more as they have a good momentum

Who gives a feck if Liverpool have momentum. You're acting like you're fecking scared of the scouse scum. Put your big boy pants on and let's have a bit of belief in our own side eh?

 

[Random Task]

City are not going to implode ... it's pretty ridiculous to think they will (or maybe it's just bravado on behalf of some posters). They will coast to the title because they have the best players and the best squad, as has been proven all season long.

All this talk of 'Liverpool will drop points', of course they will, every team will, it's not as if United are going to win all their remaining matches either, 15-16 matches apiece will see some shocks for all of the Top 6.

All this talk of 'not being worried about Liverpool' is bluster at best and downright idiocy at worst. Currently on an 18 game unbeaten streak in all competitions, have just beaten the EPL champions elect, have what appears to be the easiest run-in overall, and have gone some way to addressing their defensive woes which I can see improving all the way to the finish line (the way VvD took that defence by the scruff of the neck and shook the shit out of them vs. Everton showed that, as has Robertson by pocketing Sterling, he's proving an inspired signing at LB. Matip should do better too with VvD alongside him).

Top 4 (and the race for 2nd) is going to be a close run thing right to the finish line. The Sanchez signing could well make a huge difference for United though, I can see him popping up with goals when otherwise the team may struggle for the breakthrough.

United (H Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal A Spurs & City), Chelsea (H Liverpool & Spurs, A United & City), Liverpool (A United & Chelsea, H Spurs) and Spurs (A Liverpool & Chelsea, H Arsenal, United & City) all have games against each other that are real '6 pointers' and can make a real difference. And games against City could mean lost points with Arsenal too having the potential (esp. at home) to take points despite their poor form and loss of Sanchez. A clear advantage to Liverpool there as they only have 3 of these important tough(er) games remaining with United and Spurs having 5 apiece.

......... and then there's the CL waiting to throw a spanner in the works.

I very much doubt that anyone reading or posting in this thread, United affiliated or otherwise, think City will implode. We merely hope they will. For me hope is the very essence of a football fan - a dreamer who simply hopes for the impossible made true. We live and breathe hope as football fans, even in the face of undeniable logic, and that's why we haven't given up on the title just yet. That and the near countless times a football club has collapsed from an overwhelming position of dominance.

The belief that Liverpool will drop more points than United is based on Klopp's tactical naivety. He will continue to position his players in gung-ho system that will evidently leak goals at the back. Jose, the more logical of the two, will continue to deploy his troops in a more pragmatic system, it won't be as pretty and exciting as watching the dippers in action, but I guarantee it will be more effective. Our respective positions in the league table would seemingly support that belief. The signing of Sanchez will compound it.

Top 4 is always a close run thing. I don't expect United to be given free reign in our pursuit for a CL finish, rather I expect our players to take it by their own means. And Jose will too.

 

[Siorac]

It’s really meaningless achievement much like our win over Arsenal stopping them getting 50 unbeaten.
Only 3 points at the end of the day, same as our game v stoke tomorrow.
Don’t let hype train get you carried away! That’s their job granted.

To be honest, I still have very, very fond memories of that game. It gave me a lot more cathartic joy than winning, say, the League Cup (though beating City in the semi-final in 09/10 was sweet as feck).

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Banning people for being illogical stupid idiots seems fair to me

Maybe you should ban yourself then? Because it may surprise you but a lot of people want the team ahead of United to lose. United should always focus on catching the team above, not worrying about the teams below.

Every United player would no doubt have preferred Liverpool to win if they had to choose a winner.
Players are ambitious and will be focusing on catching City not escaping Liverpool.

City wont lose the league but if SAF and his teams always worried about the teams below before the teams above then they would never have caught Arsenal or Newcastle to win the league which may have seemed impossible at the time.

It is up to the team to win games not worry about teams below dropping points. Why? So that the team has breathing space to relax and drop points because they they can’t be caught.

 

[golden_blunder]

Who gives a feck if Liverpool have momentum. You're acting like you're fecking scared of the scouse scum. Put your big boy pants on and let's have a bit of belief in our own side eh?

Don’t try and be condescending with me pal
If you’re not worried about the scousers catching up fair enough, I guess you don’t have to listen to a bunch of the slabbers everyday

 

[Ødegaard]

Since Liverpool won, I'll hope for the unrealistic title.
If it had been a draw, I'd have seen it as dropped points for both.
If City had won I'd have seen it as more distance downwards.

Choose to be more of a glass half-full person in this situation.

 

[Fridge chutney]

City are not going to implode ... it's pretty ridiculous to think they wil

Who has actually said that City will implode? No one. It is merely a hope, one which must it begin with a confidence wobble which in turn begins with a loss.

Crazier things have happened. 2 seasons ago Leicester won the league. United threw away an 8 point lead in March or April back in 2011/12 and lost the league. Anything can happen.

 

[Fridge chutney]

And who the hell is actually "cheering liverpool"? Its not like both teams can lose. Liverpool were lucky to get 3 points in the end, such was the state of their comical defending. Had the game been 10 more minutes they would have lost and it would have been hilarious.

 

[Rafateria]

I very much doubt that anyone reading or posting in this thread, United affiliated or otherwise, think City will implode. We merely hope they will. For me hope is the very essence of a football fan - a dreamer who simply hopes for the impossible made true. We live and breathe hope as football fans, even in the face of undeniable logic, and that's why we haven't given up on the title just yet. That and the near countless times a football club has collapsed from an overwhelming position of dominance.

The belief that Liverpool will drop more points than United is based on Klopp's tactical naivety. He will continue to position his players in gung-ho system that will evidently leak goals at the back. Jose, the more logical of the two, will continue to deploy his troops in a more pragmatic system, it won't be as pretty and exciting as watching the dippers in action, but I guarantee it will be more effective. Our respective positions in the league table would seemingly support that belief. The signing of Sanchez will compound it.

Top 4 is always a close run thing. I don't expect United to be given free reign in our pursuit for a CL finish, rather I expect our players to take it by their own means. And Jose will too.

To dismiss Klopp's tactics as Gung Ho is naive to say the least. His exploits with Mainz and Dortmund should tell you that. Yes it does expose the defence more than a Mourinho team would, but do you really think that any manager doesn't work with his players on defence and that they can't be improved throughout the season (we had only conceded 4 goals at home before yesterday though let's not forget that City have now scored 67 goals in the PL so to concede against a team of that quality would be no surprise for any team). Particularly when considering all the personnel changes (VvD, Robertson, Oxlade all in and Coutinho, renowned for his lack of defensive contribution, out) which are without doubt strengthening the defence. Of course the GK situation is untenable long term but those two aren't totally useless, just not good enough for a team attempting to win trophies.

There's also this little matter :

We literally could and should have won every one of those games, so it isn't as if teams are outplaying us (only City - vs 10 men - and Spurs have done that this season). And current form it seems also means nothing to you (United 9/15 which would include winning today and Liverpool 13/15).

Current league positions supports your theory ? Seriously ? That's a joke right ? Haha ! There's 3 points in it (assuming you win today) with 15 games to go and United have the more difficult run-in. Sanchez may well be the swing factor (and I think his purchase goes some way to demonstrating Mourinho's increasing concern over your form and the tightening of the Top 5) but for me the results in the remaining inter-Top 6 matches (of which United have 5 and Liverpool just 3) plus how far respective clubs progress int he CL, will have the deciding outcome on positions 2nd thru 5th this season.

 

[montpelier]

I can see both sides of this largely pointless argument but still feel that those people ever wanting Liverpool to win a game are wrong.

And the 'we can catch City' argument is just completely potty.

 

[Revaulx]

But we do have problems securing a top 4 spot if recent years are anything to consider.

We certainly have had!

We’ve also done lots (players, manager) to rectify them. I’m not thinking for one second that we’ve done enough to win the league, but I’d feel more confident that we’d create the winning mentality necessary to win it next year if we gave it a decent go, rather than worry about a local rivalry.

 

[pjaya]

I just could not understand why self respecting utd fan would ever cheer for Liverpool?

 

[MadMike]

The fans who wanted Liverpool to win and catch us up so that City stay within 15 points, need their heads fecking examined.

I was keeping fingers and toes crossed that City would score with that last free kick chance on 93' to make it 4-4 and deliver a hammer blow to Liverpool's confidence while both teams also drop points.

 

[Rob]

Considering your league finishes since SAF's departure, I'm amazed how many of you preferred us winning yesterday.

 

[MadMike]

Considering your league finishes since SAF's departure, I'm amazed how many of you preferred us winning yesterday.

Nevermind that, just a look at the current league table would tell you which result is the best for United. Every club has some absolute lunatic fans. We're no exception.

 

[Rob]

Nevermind that, just a look at the current league table would tell you which result is the best for United. Every club has some absolute lunatic fans. We're no exception.

Yeah, it seems you have a few romantics who insist you're still in the title race and completely ignore the possibility of you dropping out of top 4. I don't think you will, but still.

 

[Cheesy]

I wasn't 'cheering' on Liverpool yesterday, but I wanted them to win.

Look, even the optimist in me accepts that the title race is done and dusted, and that it was done and dusted since about November. But any football fan should want their team to win stuff. Even more so when the team you want to win stuff is literally a position below where they need to be.

Irrespective of how distant City may be from us and irrespective of how unlikely any title win is, I'm going to back any teams that plays them on the basis that I want United to win the league. Again - it's not going to happen, but I'll still go into each game hoping we can get that bit closer to 1st place. Because the entire point of football is to try and win competitions that you're competing in.

I'm not overly concerned about Liverpool. They're obviously a very good attacking side but they still have their weaknesses at the back and will likely drop points against smaller teams in spite of their big win yesterday. They may challenge us for 2nd and if they were to manage to sneak into that position ahead of us then I'd be really fecking annoyed, but we'd still go into next season with similar advantages/disadvantages to them in regards to the CL etc, and I'd rather see us mount a probably fruitless challenge for the title than worry about what Champions League position we'll finish in.

 

[El Zoido]

Could someone please change the thread title to “ITT - the caf wants Man City to go the season undefeated.”

Because that’s about as real (and petty) as suggesting that any Utd fan wanting Liverpool to win yesterday did so because they want Liverpool to overtake us in the league.

 

[Denis79]

In the end it's up to us to keep that 2nd place and not others. The City result was regrettable but we have it in our own hands at the moment.

 

[kouroux]

Considering your league finishes since SAF's departure, I'm amazed how many of you preferred us winning yesterday.

It's fascinating tbh. The way people can delude themselves like that

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Yes but can we also win 16 in a row?

With Sanchez hitting peak form, why not?

 

[Cheesy]

In the end it's up to us to keep that 2nd place and not others. The City result was regrettable but we have it in our own hands at the moment.

Exactly. If we lose out on 2nd place or - even worse - the top four then we've only got ourselves to blame considering we really should be getting it.

 

[Random Task]

The fans who wanted Liverpool to win and catch us up so that City stay within 15 points, need their heads fecking examined.

I was keeping fingers and toes crossed that City would score with that last free kick chance on 93' to make it 4-4 and deliver a hammer blow to Liverpool's confidence while both teams also drop points.

To dismiss Klopp's tactics as Gung Ho is naive to say the least. His exploits with Mainz and Dortmund should tell you that. Yes it does expose the defence more than a Mourinho team would, but do you really think that any manager doesn't work with his players on defence and that they can't be improved throughout the season (we had only conceded 4 goals at home before yesterday though let's not forget that City have now scored 67 goals in the PL so to concede against a team of that quality would be no surprise for any team). Particularly when considering all the personnel changes (VvD, Robertson, Oxlade all in and Coutinho, renowned for his lack of defensive contribution, out) which are without doubt strengthening the defence. Of course the GK situation is untenable long term but those two aren't totally useless, just not good enough for a team attempting to win trophies.

There's also this little matter :

We literally could and should have won every one of those games, so it isn't as if teams are outplaying us (only City - vs 10 men - and Spurs have done that this season). And current form it seems also means nothing to you (United 9/15 which would include winning today and Liverpool 13/15).

Current league positions supports your theory ? Seriously ? That's a joke right ? Haha ! There's 3 points in it (assuming you win today) with 15 games to go and United have the more difficult run-in. Sanchez may well be the swing factor (and I think his purchase goes some way to demonstrating Mourinho's increasing concern over your form and the tightening of the Top 5) but for me the results in the remaining inter-Top 6 matches (of which United have 5 and Liverpool just 3) plus how far respective clubs progress int he CL, will have the deciding outcome on positions 2nd thru 5th this season.

How would you describe Klopp's tactical approach to the game other than naive?

In order to make his system a success in a league as hard fought as the Prem (by success I mean create a consistently winning football team, one such that is adept enough to sustain a title challenge year on year out), he will need the absolute best players money can buy. He will need City money, the likes of which he will never see whilst managing Liverpool FC. Yet he contiues to push his strategy with unrelenting force, regardless of the pressure it puts his defense under. And rather than take responsibility for his gross negligence regards the defense, he will blame everyone else for his failings. Yes, gross negligence. It has taken him 2 years to address the underlying issue behind Liverpool's inability to sustain a title challenge with the purchase of VVD. Many, many managers would have been sacked by now. He lingers on, though. Wailing and preaching to the world that it isn't his fault. His cynicism is frighteningly real and it will prove to be his downfall.

Before this turns into an entirely blinkered and biased "I'm right" "no, I'm right" debate, let us draw a line under it and allow the players of our respective clubs battle it out for us. I welcome the challenge of Liverpool pushing all the way to the last game. I just wish it was for the title rather than second place.

 

[Rob]

How would you describe Klopp's tactical approach to the game other than naive?

In order to make his system a success in a league as hard fought as the Prem (by success I mean create a consistently winning football team, one such that is adept enough to sustain a title challenge year on year out), he will need the absolute best players money can buy. He will need City money, the likes of which he will never see whilst managing Liverpool FC. Yet he contiues to push his strategy with unrelenting force, regardless of the pressure it puts his defense under. And rather than take responsibility for his gross negligence regards the defense, he will blame everyone else for his failings. Yes, gross negligence. It has taken him 2 years to address the underlying issue behind Liverpool's inability to sustain a title challenge with the purchase of VVD. Many, many managers would have been sacked by now. He lingers on, though. Wailing and preaching to the world that it isn't his fault. His cynicism is frighteningly real and it will prove to be his downfall.

Before this turns into an entirely blinkered and biased "I'm right" "no, I'm right" debate, let us draw a line under it and allow the players of our respective clubs battle it out for us. I welcome the challenge of Liverpool pushing all the way to the last game. I just wish it was for the title rather than second place.

He won't get City money at Liverpool, no, and probably won't be able to challenge for the title because of it. He currently has his team battling it out with you, Chelsea and Spurs for the vital cl spots, though. What more should he do?

Oh, and what do you mean by the emboldened part? Who does he blame for his failings?

 

[NinjaZombie]

Could someone please change the thread title to “ITT - the caf wants Man City to go the season undefeated.”

Because that’s about as real (and petty) as suggesting that any Utd fan wanting Liverpool to win yesterday did so because they want Liverpool to overtake us in the league.

This.

If Liverpool catch up to us, it'll be our own damn fault. That's my take on this.

 

[Random Task]

He won't get City money at Liverpool, no, and probably won't be able to challenge for the title because of it. He currently has his team battling it out with you, Chelsea and Spurs for the vital cl spots, though. What more should he do?

Oh, and what do you mean by the emboldened part? Who does he blame for his failings?

He should take a leaf out of Jose's book and adopt a more tactically aware approach to certain games. Right now Klopp looks the business, his team are firing on all cylinders and they have just become the first club to defeat City. Liverpool do this every year, they look like world beaters one minute and relegation fodder the next. They lack consistency, due in no small part to Klopp's insistence on adopting a physically demanding strategy in every game. I do not see how a football team could possibly sustain such an approach over a long and grueling 38-game season. It is practically impossible.

The reasoning behind the bold part: read the Klopp thread and the many quite frankly ludicrous complaints from Klopp after his team fail to meet his standards.

 

[Rob]

He should take a leaf out of Jose's book and adopt a more tactically aware approach to certain games. Right now Klopp looks the business, his team are firing on all cylinders and they have just become the first club to defeat City. Liverpool do this every year, they look like world beaters one minute and relegation fodder the next. They lack consistency, due in no small part to Klopp's insistence on adopting a physically demanding strategy in every game. I do not see how a football team could possibly sustain such an approach over a long and grueling 38-game season. It is practically impossible.

Read the Klopp thread and the many quite frankly ludicrous complaints from Klopp after his team fail to meet his standards.

Yeah, perhaps, but don't you think this approach is exactly why Liverpool are currently third? With the competition in the PL, I can't see a Liverpool team with Henderson, Lovren, Klavan etc getting much higher. What would be good, though, is if they somehow learned how to defend a lead

Fair enough. I can't be arsed to read through all of that, so I'll take your word for it.

 

[JDoe]

How would you describe Klopp's tactical approach to the game other than naive?

In order to make his system a success in a league as hard fought as the Prem (by success I mean create a consistently winning football team, one such that is adept enough to sustain a title challenge year on year out), he will need the absolute best players money can buy. He will need City money, the likes of which he will never see whilst managing Liverpool FC. Yet he contiues to push his strategy with unrelenting force, regardless of the pressure it puts his defense under. And rather than take responsibility for his gross negligence regards the defense, he will blame everyone else for his failings. Yes, gross negligence. It has taken him 2 years to address the underlying issue behind Liverpool's inability to sustain a title challenge with the purchase of VVD. Many, many managers would have been sacked by now. He lingers on, though. Wailing and preaching to the world that it isn't his fault. His cynicism is frighteningly real and it will prove to be his downfall.

I'd agree that Klopp still hasn't figured out how to retain a lead yet which should be a major concern for them, however, he is probably the best manager in the world that can get the most "value" for your money when it comes to building a competitive squad.

He managed to build a Dortmund side that went on from relegation spot candidates to 2 times league winners ahead of a Bayern Munich that was one of the strongest teams back then already and eventual CL finalist with like what, 30m net spend? His net spend with Liverpool - even when counting in Keita and VVD who haven't even featured yet (or just for 1 cup game) - over his reign is also pretty much zero. Of course there are some glaring problems that he hasn't addressed yet (probably due to naive loyalty to his players, just like in Dortmund) that need to be criticized but overall he still managed to assemble a squad that is very much competitive which is very respectable, especially when pretty much every other top 6 club bar Spurs and maybe Arsenal have a lot more pulling power and money to attract "more proven" top talents. Not to mention that his teams are usually very entertaining and always try to attack no matter what which should be more attractive to watch for most people.

I don't like his antics sometimes and I think he still has to prove if he can manage a squad of superstars but Klopp is probably the best manager out there for a non top-tier club. He is certainly capable of making average and good players look much much better than they actually are.