Champions League Round of 16 fixtures

Cevno said:
Arsenal were dominating before Bayern scored the first goal and even after that they were doing pretty decently for a mentally shot team, but being Arsenal they didn't have penetration or anyone in the box when Walcott/Cazorla ran into the channels to cross and also Arsenal's defence is shaky as we've seen in all big games.

For the much vaunted Bayern midfield Arsenal's midfielders ran past them well.
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What? Bayern scored in about 5mins, and I don't remember Arsenal "dominating" before then!?

I went last night, and it was interesting sitting as a neutral amongst the Arsenal fans.
They could tell they were getting a footballing lesson pretty early.

Their midfield is all wrong, 3 players in Wilshere, Arteta and Cazorla who are all neat and tidy short passing technical players. All too similar.
And surely Walcott's best position is the wide right of a front 3. It lets him do the striker and winger bit combined, whereas in the centre it needs the right game for him to excel.
 
Balu said:
Bayern changed their tactics after they went 2-0 up, so I wouldn't read to much into the second half. Arsenal's defense didn't look like they could withstand even more pressure from Bayern, so giving Bayern more possession in the beginning might have lead to an even worse outcome.
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Arsenal were the dominant team in the second before the third goal. They scored one goal and should have had another if they had a more competent striker than Giroud. If those tactics were by design then I am afraid it wasn't very smart from Heynckes. Bayern has advantage with 2 away goals but a 2-2 draw could have been a tricky proposition with Schweinsteiger now out for the second leg.

Skorenzy said:
No doubt Ramsey was miscast, but IMO the bigger problem is Wilshere. As great a player he is, he isn't going to work as what is nominally a holding midfielder, he's far too indisciplined for that role, or if I want to be generous I could say he's too complete to be limited to that role. It was all very flashy and noticeable, those driving runs of his, only problem is that when he inevitably conceded possession there was a sea of space behind him with poor old Arteta the only one on mopping up duty. Wilshere's average position was noticeably advanced compared to the other three holding mids in the game. According to WhoScored.com he was dispossessed 4 times and had 2 turnovers (ie, heavy touch or miscontrol which cedes possession); those are woeful numbers for what is supposed to be a holding mid (and the 2nd worst for anyone in that match, by the way)!

That, and not solely the quality of their backline, is a major cause of Arsenal's fragility IMO. Ramsey getting far too centrally in this game didn't help anything in an offense sense either, but the defensive concerns will always be there because they lack discipline and tactical nous in the defensive end of midfield (same story with Fàbregas before that). They've never recovered from the loss of Vieira.
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I don't think he is the holding midfielder. He is pretty much box to box with Arteta holding back to do the dirty work. He was making things happen and was one of Arsenal's best player in attack. Of course he is going to lose the ball a couple of times when he is charging into the box but I don't think anyone can hold that against him.

The defense and attack were Arsenal's problem in the game last night.
 
Sandikan said:
What? Bayern scored in about 5mins, and I don't remember Arsenal "dominating" before then!?

I went last night, and it was interesting sitting as a neutral amongst the Arsenal fans.
They could tell they were getting a footballing lesson pretty early.

Their midfield is all wrong, 3 players in Wilshere, Arteta and Cazorla who are all neat and tidy short passing technical players. All too similar.
And surely Walcott's best position is the wide right of a front 3. It lets him do the striker and winger bit combined, whereas in the centre it needs the right game for him to excel.
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Well yeah, Arsenal in their current state their fans won't be the most optimisitic lot would they ?

And in the first 7 minutes Walcott ran down the channel once and Cazorla once. They had no one to cross too in the box though. Typical Arsenal.

Then their defence defended like shit, for the 2nd and 3rd goals. They could have gotten a win yesterday with a better defence and one top striker.
 
Cevno said:
Lahm is not brilliant defensively. He is a great all round fullback for the most part but he isn't awesome defensively.

Euro 2008 final, he got done over by Torres for the winning goal. Euro 2012 the ball over the top did him which Balotelli chased down.

And Neuer is prone to making errors as much as any other goalkeeper. See last night even where he flapped 2 corners.
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So he's a "great all round" full back who isn't all that defensively? How is he great all round then?

Neuer's a brilliant goalkeeper. He has the odd mistake in him but he's capable of performances very few keepers are as well. De Gea's made mistakes. Hart's made mistakes. Casillas has made mistakes. They're all brilliant keepers regardless.
 
Pink Moon said:
So he's a "great all round" full back who isn't all that defensively? How is he great all round then?

Neuer's a brilliant goalkeeper. He has the odd mistake in him but he's capable of performances very few keepers are as well. De Gea's made mistakes. Hart's made mistakes. Casillas has made mistakes. They're all brilliant keepers regardless.
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Because he is good defensively and very good providing a outlet and going forward plus in terms of stamina. Never said he was a dead duck defensively.

Disagree on neuer, btw. He is good but he is more error prone than the top echeleon of keepers. He hasn't been in the best of form since Joining Bayern too.
 
Galatasaray vs. Schalke

Galatasaray lineup: Muslera, Nounkeu, Kaya, Sarioglu, Altintop, Inan, Melo, Riera, Sneijder, Drogba, Yilmaz

Schalke lineup: Hildebrand, Howedes, Matip, Kolasinac, Bastos, Hoger, Jones, Draxler, Neustadter, Farfan, Huntelaar
 
Steven Seagull said:
Just how good does a full back have to be on the caf to be considered good defensively?
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was just thinking that.
It's like no mather who's name gets mentioned it's always the same, which leads me to believe there is no actualy good defensive fullback in the game anymore.

well, if I actualy bought that crap
 
Forevergiggs said:
Arsenal were the dominant team in the second before the third goal. They scored one goal and should have had another if they had a more competent striker than Giroud. If those tactics were by design then I am afraid it wasn't very smart from Heynckes. Bayern has advantage with 2 away goals but a 2-2 draw could have been a tricky proposition with Schweinsteiger now out for the second leg.



I don't think he is the holding midfielder. He is pretty much box to box with Arteta holding back to do the dirty work. He was making things happen and was one of Arsenal's best player in attack. Of course he is going to lose the ball a couple of times when he is charging into the box but I don't think anyone can hold that against him.

The defense and attack were Arsenal's problem in the game last night.
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That's my point. There isn't enough balance in their midfield; he nominally does start in the defensive end of midfield (hence holding mid), but he likes to advance which is a problem (and not his fault, as it's clear as day that this is what Wenger wants).

I didn't deny that Wilshere was one Arsenal's better performers last night, but I'm making the point that his frequent runs forward coupled with the lack of cover in behind him (Arteta is all alone, because neither Ramsey nor Cazorla dropped back as I assume they weren't instructed to do so) are the main reason that Arsenal conceded so many chances to a not particularly creative Bayern, it was all mainly counter-attacking into the space left behind by Arsenal's gung-ho midfield, as always. If you can't see that this is an unbalanced and suicidal approach (a nostalgic idée-fixe that Wenger can't seem to let go from the days he had Vieira running the show), then it's easy to just blame everything on the defense... but just go check back and see how many times Bayern were allowed to run at them with huge space in front of them. Arsenal's backline isn't "impressive" for a CL side, but they're not poor or even average defenders individually either IMO. (just look at what's there; two French internationals, one German and one Belgian; and none of them look even remotely as vunerable with their NTs as they do with Arsenal).
 
That's because modern fullbacks are asked to do a lot more attacking.

My point was though that When under the pressure Lahm like Evra you could say can make a error defensively or struggle against a certain type of player. He is less likely than even Cole for mine to give a under the cosh performance like the CL final last year, when you have to defend for your life.
 
Is this Sneijder first game? Heard he hasn't played since September.
 
Dunno what to wish for, although I'm leaning towards wanting Barca to beat Milan.

I'd generaly rather see Barca eliminated but due to a bet I need Milan to finish off worse in the end of this tie than United, so...while it would make it easier for United if they were to make it through for Milan to be there instead of Barca....I want those 50 euros :D

In a perfect world it would turn out in a way that both United and Milan go through, with United having the better goal difference, very, very unlikely to happen though.
 
OGkush said:
Dunno what to wish for, although I'm leaning towards wanting Barca to beat Milan.

I'd generaly rather see Barca eliminated but due to a bet I need Milan to finish off worse in the end of this tie than United, so...while it would make it easier for United if they were to make it through for Milan to be there instead of Barca....I want those 50 euros :D

In a perfect world it would turn out in a way that both United and Milan go through, with United having the better goal difference, very, very unlikely to happen though.
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Utd more important than bets.

Milan to go through and this competition is wide open.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Utd more important than bets.

Milan to go through and this competition is wide open.
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Yep agreed.

We'd have a 50-50 chance atleast of beating everyone left if Milan beat Barca and we beat Madrid.

Also, having no Spanish teams in the top 8 would be good. :p
 
Modern fullbacks don't have it any harder to combine two roles, than fullbacks in the past. They're mostly former wingers nowadays, so their defensive fundamentals are lacking.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Utd more important than bets.

Milan to go through and this competition is wide open.
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don't get me wrong, United is of the utmost importance, however if United were to fail at going through I'd be fecked if Milan managed to get through.

First of all I care about United going through, can't affect that though, I can however make or lose 50 euros depending on how both teams perform :D
 
Is Barca's away kit always this bright?! Looks like someone designed it using the shit preset combinations in MS Word.
 
I know how this is going to sound but - the Barcelona second kit and Milan kit just look horrible side by side. I know it's a TV camera angle thing and it's OK when they zoom in, but they manage to simultaneously clash horribly and yet look too alike. In other news - at least Barca's away kit isn't as bad as some of those opal fruit variants they wore last year.

Sorry about that.
 
Cevno said:
Arsenal were dominating before Bayern scored the first goal and even after that they were doing pretty decently for a mentally shot team, but being Arsenal they didn't have penetration or anyone in the box when Walcott/Cazorla ran into the channels to cross and also Arsenal's defence is shaky as we've seen in all big games.

For the much vaunted Bayern midfield Arsenal's midfielders ran past them well.
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They scored their first after 7 minutes.
 
Flicking between the two, might stay on the Gala/Schalke game though, got money on both games. Gala were a good side when we met them and now they've made some additions, most importantly Sneijder and Drogba, they're even stronger. I hate the cnuts though.
 
Dont think he knew it was offside. Think he was really really lucky with the handball.
 
I know they're the 'greatest club side ever' but I don't half find this Barca team dull to watch most of the time.

Arsene coined it best - suffocation through possession. It's like when the Simpsons go to a footie match.
 
That was awful refereeing.
The Barca player was miles offside yet the assistant ref didn't spot it. Then the Milan defender handled the ball inside the penalty area, ref didn't see it. The ball rolls out, should be a corner for Barca, but it's a Milan goal kick.
 
Poor from el sharaawy he was clear there!
 
Milan could easily have scored there...so close.
 
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