Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc

The thing is, a very sizeable amount of responses from Biden’s supporters online always defaulted to Trump, which shows that they implicitly believe Reade.

And why wouldn’t they? Doesn’t take much of a leap of faith to think a guy who has been filmed invading personal space, touching and sniffing women/girls for decades would shove his finger up someone’s vag in the privacy of his office. He might not have done it, but his behaviours to date do not exactly inspire confidence, so that’s why his surrogates are more interested in discrediting Reade than having the accusation examined thoroughly.
 
SilentWitness said:
I guarantee that there is a load of people in the world that know who Trump is but have no clue who is his VP. Same applies for when Obama was president.
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We're not talking about Joe Public though. We're specifically referring to Tara Reade and her awareness of Biden.

KirkDuyt said:
As with the Kavanaugh woman Im inclined to give the woman the benefit of the doubt.

I dont think it's weird to call both into a bit of question though, but only if you do it in all cases, not just the one were you plan to vote for the accused. Lord knows mankind is not morally above fabricating these kind of things.

TThat bring said, Biden looks like a creepy fecker. As did Kavanaugh.
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Agreed, I asked the same question objectively when Kavanaugh's accuser came forward. I believe it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask.
 
Halftrack said:
I think you need to chill out, my dude. Victims come forth when they're ready, or when they feel that they can't stay silent about it anymore. When that time comes differs from person to person, and there's no point trying to use the timing of it as an argument for or against the accused or the accuser.

She has explained that during Biden's VP years, she was a single mom with a teenage daughter who she didn't want to put through, well, all of the shit that's happening now.
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It does make it more difficult to substantiate either version if its left for decades. I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out one consequence, the other being a continuation of the behavior if the accusation is true.
 
Lisa Bloom said:
I believe you, Tara Reade.
I still have to fight Trump, so I will still support Joe.
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This...does not compute.
 
SteveJ said:
This...does not compute.
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The "lesser of two evils" mindset has been defended by a lot of people in this thread. This is just a byproduct of that mindset.

Edit: I mean the US election thread
 
If it was just Biden then such pragmatism might be understandable but as this thing has demonstrated, like Trump he has a huge gang of enablers and you're voting for that viciousness too. This lot are fecking horrific and it's not a voters duty to distinguish Beelzebub from Moluch.
 
KirkDuyt said:
As with the Kavanaugh woman Im inclined to give the woman the benefit of the doubt.

I dont think it's weird to call both into a bit of question though, but only if you do it in all cases, not just the one were you plan to vote for the accused. Lord knows mankind is not morally above fabricating these kind of things.

That being said, Biden looks like a creepy fecker. As did Kavanaugh.
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I think that this case and Kavanaugh case are very different, to be fair.

- Kavanaugh was a district judge. While pretty powerful, I bet that most people know his name before he was chosen to be a SCOTUS. I doubt that anyone in Caf knew anything about him before Trump nominated him. So, there is something to believe that Ford just couldn't take it anymore when he was chosen to be a SCOTUS and went with her accusation. While here, Biden was VP for 8 years. What changed since then?

- Ford's story was consistent and emotional. Reade's story does not check well (for example, her brother actually remembering only a few days later, then yes, she was sexually assaulted).

- Ford went into the senate under an oath and gave her testimony. Reade is doing it from Twitter.

- Biden has called for an open investigation about this.

Don't get me wrong, it might well be the case that Reade was sexually assaulted. But I don't see any parallels between this case and the Kavanaugh one.
 
Revan said:
I think that this case and Kavanaugh case are very different, to be fair.

- Kavanaugh was a district judge. While pretty powerful, I bet that most people know his name before he was chosen to be a SCOTUS. I doubt that anyone in Caf knew anything about him before Trump nominated him. So, there is something to believe that Ford just couldn't take it anymore when he was chosen to be a SCOTUS and went with her accusation. While here, Biden was VP for 8 years. What changed since then?

- Ford's story was consistent and emotional. Reade's story does not check well (for example, her brother actually remembering only a few days later, then yes, she was sexually assaulted).

- Ford went into the senate under an oath and gave her testimony. Reade is doing it from Twitter.

- Biden has called for an open investigation about this.

Don't get me wrong, it might well be the case that Reade was sexually assaulted. But I don't see any parallels between this case and the Kavanaugh one.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris...al_assault_allegation_against_Brett_Kavanaugh

it's practically impossible to find cases of sexual assault where sources of information are absolutely aligned, including that one, just be honest and admit you're defending joe biden because you want him to win, because it's blatant to everyone
 
Silva said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris...al_assault_allegation_against_Brett_Kavanaugh

it's practically impossible to find cases of sexual assault where sources of information are absolutely aligned, including that one, just be honest and admit you're defending joe biden because you want him to win, because it's blatant to everyone
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Not really. I would have wanted him to win in either case * (even if it was proven that he raped her), though I find the case not very convincing, and definitely not analogous to that of Kavanaugh.

* If it is between him and Trump, obviously. If there is more evidence, then the right thing (IMO) would be for him to withdraw, and the second most voted Democrat (Bernie) to be the nominee.
 
entropy said:
Not sure how you can believe Ford and not believe Reade. Irrespective of your personal opinion you can’t be that dumb to not see the hypocrisy.
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Ford and Reade are not the same person, neither their story is the same story. I don't see much analogy there except both claiming that they have been sexually assaulted.
 
Is it completely impossible for the US to come up with just one candidate for the presidency who isn't about to croak and who isn't a dodgy fecker? It's like with the Kavanaugh thing: Even if he's innocent why not just pick someone who hasn't got a lot of baggage? Surely such a person exists who's qualified as well.
 
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Maagge said:
Is it completely impossible for the US to come up just one candidate for the presidency who isn't about to croak and who isn't a dodgy fecker? It's like with the Kavanaugh thing: Even if he's innocent why not just pick someone who hasn't got a lot of baggage? Surely such a person exists who's qualified as well.
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Trump still got elected after openly admitting to grabbing women by the punani, paying off a porn star to keep quiet and numerous sexual charges so I don't understand why people are getting worked up over Biden.
 
RedPed said:
Trump still got elected after openly admitting to grabbing women by the punani, paying off a porn star to keep quiet and numerous sexual charges so I don't understand why people are getting worked up over Biden.
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If the neighbour to the left of me shoots a bunch of kids, and the neighbour to the right of me shoots one, I’m not going to give Mr Williams a pass because Mr Davies has a higher kill count.
 
Cascarino said:
If the neighbour to the left of me shoots a bunch of kids, and the neighbour to the right of me shoots one, I’m not going to give Mr Williams a pass because Mr Davies has a higher kill count.
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Especially when they are both applying to be the headmaster of a school full of kids.
 
Cascarino said:
If the neighbour to the left of me shoots a bunch of kids, and the neighbour to the right of me shoots one, I’m not going to give Mr Williams a pass because Mr Davies has a higher kill count.
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Yeah, well America doesn't work like that. Remember, their president said that he could stand in 5th Avenue and shoot someone and his followers would still support him...and they probably would.

So yeah Mr. Williams does get a pass.

Oh, and they also don't have any issue with kids getting shot either.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Especially when they are both applying to be the headmaster of a school full of kids.
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But if you gave the guy who has shot up a bunch of kids a headmaster's position already, it would be very hard to justify not appointing the guy who has 'only' shot just the one kid.
 
RedPed said:
But if you gave the guy who has shot up a bunch of kids a headmaster's position already, it would be very hard to justify not appointing the guy who has 'only' shot just the one kid.
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How about we throw them both into jail for shooting kids, and get someone who hasn’t to be the headmaster?
 
This is pure gold, keep it going lads. I can feel the frustration building up, get it all out of your system.
 
RedPed said:
Trump still got elected after openly admitting to grabbing women by the punani, paying off a porn star to keep quiet and numerous sexual charges so I don't understand why people are getting worked up over Biden.
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'I don't understand why people are getting worked up about the two candidates for president both being plagued by credible allegations of sexual assault. I, would simply vote for my favourite rapist'.
 
RedPed said:
Trump still got elected after openly admitting to grabbing women by the punani, paying off a porn star to keep quiet and numerous sexual charges so I don't understand why people are getting worked up over Biden.
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Oh well that's alright then.
 
BobbyManc said:
'I don't understand why people are getting worked up about the two candidates for president both being plagued by credible allegations of sexual assault. I, would simply vote for my favourite rapist'.
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No no no, this is the bit I just can't understand. How have we gotten to 'both being plagued' now? Is this a realm where nuance is dead?

Two months ago there was a grand total of 0 accusations across Joe Biden's extremely long life of sexual assault. Donald Trump has been accused and paid off literally dozens of women over the course of 4 decades, has admitted it on camera and most recently illegally used campaign money to pay off a porn star he was cheating with while his wife was pregnant - a crime for which the fixer is currently in jail.

This whole 'both sides are equal' bullsh*t seems all the rage in discourse today, particularly on here.

But if I said: Frederico Macheda and Wayne Rooney are both legendary Manchester United strikers, and it's difficult to choose between the two, I'm sure someone would point out there is a difference. Why on the politics side are we so fast to just declare both sides equal? Is it media training? Is it pure nihilism?

Whether or not you find Reade's accusation credible - it is factually, obviously and provably not the same as Trump's history. The same is true if you substituted in Kavanaugh for Biden here.

I understand people don't like Biden - I don't think he's particularly great - but the descent into 'well he's a serial rapist and just as bad as Trump' is shocking to me.
 
Beachryan said:
No no no, this is the bit I just can't understand. How have we gotten to 'both being plagued' now? Is this a realm where nuance is dead?

Two months ago there was a grand total of 0 accusations across Joe Biden's extremely long life of sexual assault. Donald Trump has been accused and paid off literally dozens of women over the course of 4 decades, has admitted it on camera and most recently illegally used campaign money to pay off a porn star he was cheating with while his wife was pregnant - a crime for which the fixer is currently in jail.

This whole 'both sides are equal' bullsh*t seems all the rage in discourse today, particularly on here.

But if I said: Frederico Macheda and Wayne Rooney are both legendary Manchester United strikers, and it's difficult to choose between the two, I'm sure someone would point out there is a difference. Why on the politics side are we so fast to just declare both sides equal? Is it media training? Is it pure nihilism?

Whether or not you find Reade's accusation credible - it is factually, obviously and provably not the same as Trump's history. The same is true if you substituted in Kavanaugh for Biden here.

I understand people don't like Biden - I don't think he's particularly great - but the descent into 'well he's a serial rapist and just as bad as Trump' is shocking to me.
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I don’t think anyone’s saying that they’re identical cases. Just that because one case is worse doesn’t mean the other should be exonerated.
 
Beachryan said:
No no no, this is the bit I just can't understand. How have we gotten to 'both being plagued' now? Is this a realm where nuance is dead?

Two months ago there was a grand total of 0 accusations across Joe Biden's extremely long life of sexual assault. Donald Trump has been accused and paid off literally dozens of women over the course of 4 decades, has admitted it on camera and most recently illegally used campaign money to pay off a porn star he was cheating with while his wife was pregnant - a crime for which the fixer is currently in jail.

This whole 'both sides are equal' bullsh*t seems all the rage in discourse today, particularly on here.

But if I said: Frederico Macheda and Wayne Rooney are both legendary Manchester United strikers, and it's difficult to choose between the two, I'm sure someone would point out there is a difference. Why on the politics side are we so fast to just declare both sides equal? Is it media training? Is it pure nihilism?

Whether or not you find Reade's accusation credible - it is factually, obviously and provably not the same as Trump's history. The same is true if you substituted in Kavanaugh for Biden here.

I understand people don't like Biden - I don't think he's particularly great - but the descent into 'well he's a serial rapist and just as bad as Trump' is shocking to me.
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I couldn't have put it better myself. Unfortunately there is a lot of moral pontificating that goes on in here.
 
Cascarino said:
I don’t think anyone’s saying that they’re identical cases. Just that because one case is worse doesn’t mean the other should be exonerated.
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Nobody's saying that either. The point was that if someone's serial predatory and deceitful behaviour can be overlooked to the extent that he is revered by many and even given the most powerful job in the world, why are people getting their knickers in a twist over a guy who is being accused of his first offence?

Yeah both actions are wrong but America really has no moral high ground on which they can pass judgement on Joe Biden.

It's now ok for Presidents to lie, cheat, defraud, abuse their power, be above the law, disregard protocols, bully and/or abuse people racially and sexually, commit high crimes and misdemeanours and stomp all over foreign diplomacy.

Trump has set the bar and precedents for many years to come and it's of their own making.
 
RedPed said:
Nobody's saying that either. The point was that if someone's serial predatory and deceitful behaviour can be overlooked to the extent that he is revered by many and even given the most powerful job in the world, why are people getting their knickers in a twist over a guy who is being accused of his first offence?

Yeah both actions are wrong but America really has no moral high ground on which they can pass judgement on Joe Biden.

It's now ok for Presidents to lie, cheat, defraud, abuse their power, be above the law, disregard protocols, bully and/or abuse people racially and sexually, commit high crimes and misdemeanours and stomp all over foreign diplomacy.

Trump has set the bar and precedents for many years to come and it's of their own making.
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You realise “America” isn’t one mind, right?

The majority of Americans didn’t vote for and don’t support Donald Trump.
 
RedPed said:
Nobody's saying that either. The point was that if someone's serial predatory and deceitful behaviour can be overlooked to the extent that he is revered by many and even given the most powerful job in the world, why are people getting their knickers in a twist over a guy who is being accused of his first offence?
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absolutely none of the people who dislike joe bidens assault said anything bad about the dang cheeto, no siree, this is totally unprecedented
 
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The ballot will basically read, which of these alleged rapists do you want to be your next president.

It's kind of funny in an, is this the fecking twilight zone kind of way.
 
KirkDuyt said:
The ballot will basically read, which of these alleged rapists do you want to be your next president.

It's kind of funny in an, is this the fecking twilight zone kind of way.
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Sigh. Never mind. Nuance is dead.

We might as well just flip a coin.
 
RedPed said:
Nobody's saying that either. The point was that if someone's serial predatory and deceitful behaviour can be overlooked to the extent that he is revered by many and even given the most powerful job in the world, why are people getting their knickers in a twist over a guy who is being accused of his first offence?

Yeah both actions are wrong but America really has no moral high ground on which they can pass judgement on Joe Biden.

It's now ok for Presidents to lie, cheat, defraud, abuse their power, be above the law, disregard protocols, bully and/or abuse people racially and sexually, commit high crimes and misdemeanours and stomp all over foreign diplomacy.

Trump has set the bar and precedents for many years to come and it's of their own making.
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Doesn’t the bolded kind of work against each other? You’re saying no one is saying to absolve Biden, then you’re saying he can’t be judged.




RedPed said:
I couldn't have put it better myself. Unfortunately there is a lot of moral pontificating that goes on in here.
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Beachryan said:
Sigh. Never mind. Nuance is dead.

We might as well just flip a coin.
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cracking arguments lads
 
Cascarino said:
cracking arguments lads
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I just tried to articulate my argument a few posts ago. That a second Trump term and a Biden Presidency are categorically not the same thing, despite people's attempts to reduce it to that. That not even the allegations are similar in scope, reliability or veracity. I tried an example from football - pointing out that just because two players have played football, they are not the same footballers.

A Biden presidency, would, at the very least, get you:
- Appointment of full-time positions in the government. Trump has basically (thanks Steve Bannon) gutted key areas of the US government and either not appointed or put in place deliberately malignant figures designed to destroy instutions.
- A seat back at the big boy table of world affairs
- A cabinet with people who may know something about their fields
- Potential to re-balance the Supreme Court, or at least halt its descent into a conservative body
- A coherent plan for the state department, pentagon and so forth to follow
- A return to boring politics, instead of a Twitter-fun circus sideshow

I don't think you can really argue many of those points. But yeah, let's just flippantly say this election is a choice between two equivalents. Because man are we pissed about not having a progressive enough candidate, so let's burn it all down.

The reason all this sh*t pisses me off is because it is designed to get people thinking like that: oh they're the same. It's the same tactic used successfully in 14 f*cking trials on Benghazi. Despite absolutely nothing coming from them, the process was designed to lower the bar, spread doubt and make it about 'everyone is sh*t, so don't think about how sh*t we are'. Same with the email server. You think a republican would care if it turned out Trump was sending unencrypted sms messages with his 20 year old Nokia to Putin each night? Not a blip. But democrats and independents have to take all this much more seriously. As Steve Bannon said: you fill the zone with sh*t, then it doesn't matter how much your candidate smells.

Read this thread, and it's worked perfectly.
 
nuance is when you're okay with a little sexual assault so the pentagon can be more efficient in killing brown people and the president sits with the big boys (what?)
 
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