Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc

Yes, a double standard is applied in cases of this nature. The entire American liberal community, including many prominent feminists, rushed to the support of Bill Clinton when he was under fire for sexual misconduct. Longstanding pontification about the horrors of sexual harassment was abandoned like an unwanted infant, and it was Clinton's accusers who came under scrutiny - the kind of reaction liberals had been condemning for years. When Kathleen Willey accused Clinton of molesting her on a visit to the Oval Office after her husband's death, the liberal magazine Newsweek published a story entitled: 'The trouble with..........Kathleen Willey'!!

As for all the women in the industry who have come forward, where were they for the last thirty years? It's safe to come down from the mountains to shoot the wounded now, there's blood in the water and all the sharks can safely join in the feeding frenzy, but why didn't anyone have the integrity and courage to speak out before?

This guy's behaviour was well known, so why weren't Hollywood feminists, now so vocal, prepared to support their sisters and bring Weinstein down in the past? Because the possible risk to their careers outweighed any inclination to protect other women from a sexual predator.

I actually agree with most of your post, and there are even worse examples of feminists for Bill Clinton.
But the line in bold is terrible. It's literal victim-blaming with no real point to make. Why didn't women speak out against a powerful man who molested them? Because he was powerful and controlled their jobs.
 
I actually agree with most of your post, and there are even worse examples of feminists for Bill Clinton.
But the line in bold is terrible. It's literal victim-blaming with no real point to make. Why didn't women speak out against a powerful man who molested them? Because he was powerful and controlled their jobs.

He was a powerful Hollywood figure who didn't, in most cases, control their jobs. The women weren't hanging over a bottomless pit by a thin thread with Weinstein holding a scissors.

The man's behaviour was an open secret, and his victims numerous. Nobody needed to act alone. But they chose to go along to get along.
 
He was a powerful Hollywood figure who didn't, in most cases, control their jobs. The women weren't hanging over a bottomless pit by a thin thread with Weinstein holding a scissors.

The man's behaviour was an open secret, and his victims numerous. Nobody needed to act alone. But they chose to go along to get along.
This is not just silly but really rather cruel.
 
He was a powerful Hollywood figure who didn't, in most cases, control their jobs. The women weren't hanging over a bottomless pit by a thin thread with Weinstein holding a scissors.

The man's behaviour was an open secret, and his victims numerous. Nobody needed to act alone. But they chose to go along to get along.

You seem unaware of how industry power brokers operate. If you have the money, connections and influence you can blackball anyone and a byproduct of having this type of power is that allegations against you often disappear.

This is true of any field and there are numerous examples out there from musicians to real estate developers to more recently former Fox News employees. @berbatrick has already pointed out you're victim blaming over something that's very simple to understand.
 
Buchan, vocal liberal in his imagination, is notably silent on Trumps sexual abuse claims. He's not alone on this regard either, the silence from dipshits on 4chan is deafening.

I unfortunately wandered into your little circles just now and all of a sudden the tone of this thread makes a lot more sense than it did a short while ago. This case has been politicised by the far right. For anyone more fortunate than myself who doesn't wander into the internets dark corners - the logic is that Harvey donates money to the Democratic party. Which of course means that there's this massive conspiracy on the left to ignore his alleged sex crimes. Because that's what the left famously does, it hides the sex crimes of hollywood elites, like in Pizzagate. And obviously this has been met with obvious "But Trump, O'Rielly" from the left leading to a total online shitshow.

And for all their claims I haven't seen anyone defend Weinstein while notable so called hollywood elites like Lena Dunham have tweeted support for the women who have come forward. All the left leaning papers in the meantime have been publishing articles along the lines of "hollywood's open secret - how the industry was complicit in protecting sex crimes".

But you know, vocal feminist Emma Watson hasn't personally held a press conference in front of the world media, so silly feminist women are protecting him. What a load of shit.

I didn't bring Watson into this thread. Another poster did, and as she's such a vocal advocate for feminist issues, coupled with her status within Hollywood and her familiarity with Weinstein and the Hollywood elite at large, I think it's a fair question to ask. I did mention Hollywood's sewer-like history with accusations levelled at 'legends' such as Polanski and Hitchcock. What association have they got with the Democrats?

Keep your crazy conspiracy theories and paranoia to yourself, fella.
 
I didn't bring Watson into this thread. Another poster did, and as she's such a vocal advocate for feminist issues, coupled with her status within Hollywood and her familiarity with Weinstein and the Hollywood elite at large, I think it's a fair question to ask. I did mention Hollywood's sewer-like history with accusations levelled at 'legends' such as Polanski and Hitchcock. What association have they got with the Democrats?

Keep your crazy conspiracy theories and paranoia to yourself, fella.
So it's just a coincidence you're parroting the logic of the internets gutter?
 
As for all the women in the industry who have come forward, where were they for the last thirty years? It's safe to come down from the mountains to shoot the wounded now, there's blood in the water and all the sharks can safely join in the feeding frenzy, but why didn't anyone have the integrity and courage to speak out before?

This guy's behaviour was well known, so why weren't Hollywood feminists, now so vocal, prepared to support their sisters and bring Weinstein down in the past? Because the possible risk to their careers outweighed any inclination to protect other women from a sexual predator.

This is the issue I have with this too, particularly the bolded part. There's quite a few female actors who've leapt from obscurity to Hollywood fame on the back of Weinstein's say-so and aggressive lobbying. Their silence now could be construed as compliance, giving Weinstein what he wanted in exchange for fame and fortune. Admitting to such behaviour now would end their careers so the silence is expected and understandable, but it does make them hypocrites, regrettably.

@Silva is correct when he says the likes of Ashley Judd and Rose McGowan, direct victims of Weinstein, and the likes of Lena Dunham, indirect victims of his behaviour and standards, are to be applauded for their stances. They are brave. But they shouldn't be alone. I include the men of Hollywood in this, too.
 
So it's just a coincidence you're parroting the logic of the internets gutter?

The internet's gutter, as you put it, comes in many guises, not least in the eye of the beholder. Anyway, we're going off on a politicised tangent here. I'm not trying to expose nor hint at a democratic conspiracy which shielded Weinstein. How you came to that conclusion from my posts in this thread is rather puzzling.

I will say one thing about the DNC's reaction to this scandal: it's been measured and effective for what is an undoubted embarrassing association for them. The $30,000 donations to victims angle I can understand, but is it any different to what Weinstein himself would do, settling out of court to buy their silence? I'm sure they'd want proper justice and for this serial offender to see proper jail time.
 
Bit of a side note but I'm not sure it's right to just lump all these movie figures together in one group as if they're all equally guilty. The single unproven allegation of sexual assault against Allen isn't on par with the multiple allegations against Weinstein, which in turn isn't on par with the crime Roman Polanksi actually admitted to. It is possible to hold different positions on different people in different circumstances.
 
Why are sexual assault, sexual harassment and other heinous acts so commonplace in Hollywood, and why are they covered up time after time?

They're probably common place everywhere. I was chatting to a teacher who said there's probably a pedophile on every street. Now I'm not sure if she's an authority on the subject but she might not be too far from the truth.
 
Bit of a side note but I'm not sure it's right to just lump all these movie figures together in one group as if they're all equally guilty. The single unproven allegation of sexual assault against Allen isn't on par with the multiple allegations against Weinstein, which in turn isn't on par with the crime Roman Polanksi actually admitted to. It is possible to hold different positions on different people in different circumstances.

Of course. The Polanski one is the most galling, for me. He committed a heinous act on an underage girl yet his Hollywood buddies are giving him standing ovations at awards ceremonies whilst he's in absentia, because, you know, he's on the run for sexual abuse of a 13-year-old, and getting 100+ signatures on a petition urging his release when he was arrested eight years ago.

Yes, the crimes differ in stature, but Hollywood's reaction remains the same: total and utter silence for fear of ruining future careers opportunities.
 
Copying the full article:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/10/harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-women-union

Sexual harassment is in the news again. Yesterday, the New York Times published an investigation revealing “previously undisclosed allegations against Mr. [Harvey] Weinstein stretching over nearly three decades.” Weinstein, an Oscar-winning movie producer and one of the most powerful people in Hollywood, used his position in the entertainment industry to abuse women, overwhelmingly young women new to the movie business.

The story details abusive behavior — such as Weinstein “badgering” women into giving him naked massages or asking if they would watch him shower — that reveals a man who gets off not so much on sex as on dominating women who he suspects were powerless to fight back. That he got away with it for decades, and that he is only being outed now, as his power is fading — slowly, to be sure — suggests he was right.

But there’s another thread that comes through, one of women helping other women protect themselves in a situation where the power differential between Weinstein and themselves is staggering. We read of Lauren O’Connor writing a memo denouncing her boss’s conduct. We see Ashley Judd tell the Times reporters, “Women have been talking about Harvey amongst ourselves for a long time, and it’s simply beyond time to have the conversation publicly.” We are informed that “one woman advised a peer to wear a parka when summoned for duty as a layer of protection against unwelcome advances.” And we get anonymous quotes, from women employed or formerly employed by Weinstein, confirming the allegations.

In an era when so many of us know how widespread workplace sexual harassment is, it’s important to take in the details of a rare case of a harasser being publicly accused. This is the exception to the rule, which is that powerful men like Weinstein get to harass and assault women until they die, no matter how many people in their industries know about it.

But having digested these details, we — or at least those of us concerned with fighting these injustices — arrive at a question: What do we do about it? We live in an era where “feminism . . . is cool,” at least according to those liberal feminists whose politics fit comfortably with feminism-as-brand, and yet sexual harassment, in the workplace and without, continues unabated.

After the publication of the Times article, lots of women took to Twitter to tell their stories of workplace sexual harassment. But the proud feminist tradition of consciousness-raising — this time in a distinctly 2017 form, tweeting — cannot stop workplace sexual harassment. It’s a way to make those few of us unfortunate enough to use Twitter feel less alone, and to educate our male counterparts about the thorny persistence of harassment in our supposed feminist age. But when it comes to stopping that harassment, its effect is negligible at best.

So, again, what can we do to reduce workplace sexual harassment?

To answer that, let me start with a few snapshots of my own.

  • Age seventeen: during my first shift as a waitress, a customer leaves me his number instead of a tip — I am an embarrassed kid, so I don’t tell anyone.
  • Age twenty: I ask a professor for a recommendation to graduate school. He responds by asking me if I have a boyfriend. I do not reply, to that email, or ever again. I do not get into a PhD program that year.
  • Age twenty-one: during my first shift as a hostess at a restaurant, one of the bartenders propositions me, multiple times. When I tell the manager, seeking advice, he responds, “Well, you were hired to be looked at.” I walk out mid-dinner rush that same day, and never go back.
  • Age twenty-two: I am a new PhD student. One of the other students informs me to avoid X, a male professor. “He touches the female students he works with, like, a lot.” I change what I plan to focus on in the program, so as to avoid working with him.
What do these stories have in common? Beyond the obvious — they’re all cases of workplace sexual harassment — in each case, I acted alone, and the action I took worsened my life. I walked away from jobs, never to return even for the paycheck I was owed. I reneged on substantial intellectual goals to avoid harassers. I suffered, doubly.

I don’t share these stories for the purpose of consciousness-raising, although if reading them makes you feel less alone, or conveys to you how often harassment happens, good. I share them to show how much we stand to lose by trying to resolve sexual harassment on our own.

Rather than trying to fight back against a harasser on her own, the safest bet for a women is to find a vehicle to fight the issue collectively. Not only can this strengthen the power on her side — if she can only do so much on her own, her power multiplies with each colleague who stands beside her — but it protects her. Speaking out about harassment is risky when your job is on the line, but if you speak as a “we,” there is no “I” who can be identified. Sure, if the harasser only harassed me, he will know I am the one who told people. But even then, if my coworkers commit to backing me up, and taking action if I face repercussions for speaking up, it becomes much harder for that harasser to win. He can fire me — or get me fired if he isn’t the boss — but he can’t fire all of us.

The above scenario is a type of collective action, one that is closer to the informal side of the spectrum that runs from informal to formal action: workers confront a harasser, threatening to take action, be it direct action or legal action, if the harassment doesn’t end. It’s a step beyond the actions we read of in the Times story, of individual women warning other women of Weinstein’s actions, although the many women quoted or interviewed anonymously about Weinstein are taking informal collective action too, albeit of a type that shields them from the risk of repercussions (I hope). It’s an important step, and I have seen it stop harassment. Workers threatening to walk off the job if one of the bosses doesn’t act on information about sexual harassment can force that boss to act, if solely to keep the shop running smoothly.

But on the other end of the spectrum is an even more effective strategy: formal collective action. When it comes to the workplace, the most common vehicle for this step is a union. Any of us who want to stamp out sexual harassment in the workplace should be fighting for those protections too.
 
You seem unaware of how industry power brokers operate. If you have the money, connections and influence you can blackball anyone and a byproduct of having this type of power is that allegations against you often disappear.

This is true of any field and there are numerous examples out there from musicians to real estate developers to more recently former Fox News employees. @berbatrick has already pointed out you're victim blaming over something that's very simple to understand.

Are you saying that a public accusation of harassment against Harvey Weinstein, a man notorious among Hollywood insiders for this kind of behaviour, results in the accuser being blackballed throughout the industry? For a community which drips politically correct liberalism from every public pore, this is unbelievable hypocrisy.
 
Weinstein always did come across as a seedy creep. Only allegations at present, of course, but wouldn't shock me if he were to be found guilty.
 
Weinstein always did come across as a seedy creep. Only allegations at present, of course, but wouldn't shock me if he were to be found guilty.
I think it is fair to say that a person who has reached settlement to avoid charges with 6-7 different women is actually guilty. He also has admitted that he was guilt of some misbehaviour but is contesting some of the charges in NY article. His lawyer's initial argument was that he was guilt of workplace inappropriate behavior rather than harassment, which is a laughable argument.
 
Never heard of this bloke but it’s quite turning my stomach to read some of his alleged behaviour. That potted plant incident makes him sound a dirty, perverted creep. If he has been up to this sort of thing that they should sue the pants off him (apologies) and get him sacked from his job. Nobody should ever be expected to put up with that sort of disgusting stuff. No-one should be subjecting another person to their lack of sexual control either.
 
He fired himself?
 
Haven't heard a peep from certain posters on GOP members still appearing on Fox News.

------

Saw a rumor circulating that his brother pushed the initial story to NYT, or to others that relayed to NYT, in a power play for control.
 
Are you saying that a public accusation of harassment against Harvey Weinstein, a man notorious among Hollywood insiders for this kind of behaviour, results in the accuser being blackballed throughout the industry? For a community which drips politically correct liberalism from every public pore, this is unbelievable hypocrisy.

The same community that produced Reagan and Schwarzeneger?

Powerful men blackballing any lone dissident that threaten their privileges, yeah that has never happened before. Also, most of the victims tend not to be the well-known ones, or even being recognised anywhere within the industry, which makes them easily silenced.

Power doesn't know political affiliation.
 
Peter Biskind wrote a book call Down and Dirty Pictures about Miramax and the rise of indie film which mainly centred on the Weinstein brothers. It details a history of horrendous bullying from both of them, though none of it was of a sexual nature, which makes you wonder if Biskind is complicit or if Weinstein was able to suppress the seedier stuff through lawsuits etc.
 
In his preface, Biskind describes being called into to Weinstein's office early on in his research. Harvey sat behind his big desk. 'The odour of menace hung in the air like the smell of burning tyres,' Biskind recalls. There was a baseball bat in the corner. Harvey offered to bankroll him to write another book, any other book, which Miramax would publish, if he would just not do this book on Miramax. Biskind declined.

Since the book came out in America, the pair have not met. 'I live out of the city, so I don't go to a lot of openings. I know I will run into Harvey eventually, though,' Biskind says. 'It's sort of inevitable. I don't suppose he is going to drag me out in the street and break my legs. That would not be seen as a very cool thing to do. So, in a way, I'd rather get it over with.'

In the meantime, Biskind has Miramax's formidable public-relations operation to spar with.

'They've got these people who are a bit like Richard Nixon's truth squad - they hassle journalists I've talked to,' he says. 'It can pay off. Some journalists get intimidated. They have an amazing network of "assets", as they say. They call up and say I distorted this on page 43 or I exaggerated that on page 258.' (This point had been proved to me when, the night before I was due to interview Biskind at his hotel in Soho, The Observer office received a call from Miramax in London suggesting that the company's head of publicity in New York would love to talk to me about the story I was writing. I declined, mainly because I could only think of one question: how did they know?)

This from a Guardian profile of Biskind gives some insight as to how Weinstein dealt with critical voices.
 
Tbf, this is not really revelatory. Harvey's reputation has long been known even among moviegoers since Miramax' early days - even Entourage had a storyline on his belligerence where the clown even willingly participated in scenes
 
It's definitely a bit stark that there's very few rushing to condemn him from the same camp that all quickly jumped on the 'bash Trump' bandwagon.

Still, it's been what? 2 days? Also Trump was bigger news since he was running for office.
 
Are you saying that a public accusation of harassment against Harvey Weinstein, a man notorious among Hollywood insiders for this kind of behaviour, results in the accuser being blackballed throughout the industry? For a community which drips politically correct liberalism from every public pore, this is unbelievable hypocrisy.

I'm saying that someone looking down the ladder can make life very difficult for people on the bottom rungs. Victims who speak out face enormous defamation suits while their reputations and job prospects are trashed by negative PR and well placed phone calls.

This is not exclusive to Hollywood nor is it a liberal issue, this shit happens everywhere. It's really not difficult to understand Will.
 
I'm saying that someone looking down the ladder can make life very difficult for people on the bottom rungs. Victims who speak out face enormous defamation suits while their reputations and job prospects are trashed by negative PR and well placed phone calls.

This is not exclusive to Hollywood nor is it a liberal issue, this shit happens everywhere. It's really not difficult to understand Will.

The hypocrisy is liberal.

If a prominent conservative, loud in his support for family values, is found to be a philanderer, with a string of mistresses and a love child or two, liberals are quick to condemn the conflict between public and private behaviour.

Hollywood is vociferous in support of women's rights, contributes millions to female candidates in the democratic party, constantly pats itself on the back for pushing a feminist agenda, and makes movies heaping syrupy praise on women who defend themselves against workplace exploitation (I believe the Weinsteins made one). For such a community to unite in ostracising a woman who speaks out against a powerful member of their group, who they know is almost certainly telling the truth, is rankest hypocrisy, and reveals all their liberal piety for nothing more than window dressing on a turd.
 
Looks like the Hollywood community is out in force condemning Weinstein. Piers Morgan had his article about Meryl Streep's lack of condemnation pulled quite sharply.
 
Looks like the Hollywood community is out in force condemning Weinstein. Piers Morgan had his article about Meryl Streep's lack of condemnation pulled quite sharply.

Link?

Regarding the Hollywood community now banding together, it's too late for that. It's been four days since the story was published (years since it Tinseltown's most 'open secret') and he's already been sacked. In typical self-centred fashion, the Hollywood community waited until they were sure there'd be no reprisals before public condemnation, as well as none of them willing to put their heads above the parapet until it was known what the 'party line' was.
 
Also, this looks more and more like a hatchet-job as the days pass alá the Keyes and Gray scandal at Sky a few years back. People in the industry knew about it for years but waited until the aggressors' stars were fading before deciding it was time for action. Nods and fake-smiles aplenty for fear of losing a coveted role whilst ignoring grotesque sexual conduct all around them. For years. For decades.

Better late than never, of course, but it still stinks to the high heavens.
 
Kinda like Fox News and the guests that routinely show up, eh?

Religion as well considering how the masses carry on despite the problems within.

So the entire human race can fall under that label.
 
Kinda like Fox News and the guests that routinely show up, eh?

Religion as well considering how the masses carry on despite the problems within.

So the entire human race can fall under that label.

Sexual predators who appear on Fox News, or any medium for that matter, are scumbags, too.

Does this even need to be clarified?