Casemiro | United Player

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JPRouve said:
We used to change 2 to 3 quality players every year, that's around a third of the team every 3 years, that's substantial. The players that are considered core players are about 7-8 players over 10 years these players play with easily 50 different players over a decade, that's why I say that core players are meant to be few.

Also it's interesting to see VDS mentioned as a core player when we signed him when he was 34, nearly 35 years old.
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Oh ok, 7-8 of core players is less than a third of a full squad, I was thinking more of starting 11, where you 7-8 core players and few others added every now and then.

On VDS, he indeed lasted 6 years when he joined as a 34-35 yo. what an amazing find by SAF he was, I bet a lot of people thought he was too old and past it at the time lool
 
DSG said:
One thing that is underrated in the Casemiro signing is I think he has a huge mentality, a bit of nastiness, and he just wants to win. Even if he gives us just 3 years, if he can help turn around our weak mentality, it’s probably worth it. What has Declan Rice won?
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spot on. A winning mentality is essential - especially in the middle of the park.
 
Its almost frustrating how easily this transfer came about. None of us considered him a realistic target but now in retrospect, spending the budget on getting de Jong and Casemiro would have transformed this team. The de Jong saga has been terrible and may not have happened but with a clear strategy of getting these two I think maybe the extra money for either barca or de jong could have swung it. De Jong, Casemiro and one of Eriksen or Bruno is a truly world class, elite midfield. We started the season with Fred and McTominay. Even Casemiro and Rabiot would have been an enormous upgrade to spend pre season working with.
 
Acheron said:
Declan Rice :lol:

At that price Casemiro has to be considered a bargain. :lol:
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Ya there's a very disingenous tweet doing the rounds, like casemiro at 70m and 400k a week for 5 years, or Rice for 130m at 250k a week for 5 years, and people pretending there isnt that much difference between the overall price.

Firstly, Casemiro isnt on 400k, and secondly if Rice was on 250k and performing at a high level, he'd get a pay rise within those years. It's a pointless, boring comparison.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Oh ok, 7-8 of core players is less than a third of a full squad, I was thinking more of starting 11, where you 7-8 core players and few others added every now and then.

On VDS, he indeed lasted 6 years when he joined as a 34-35 yo. what an amazing find by SAF he was, I bet a lot of people thought he was too old and past it at the time lool
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Yeah, the point was in the context of long term planning. Generally if you sign a young player, he isn't supposed to be a starter from day one in fact if we go back to your list, players like Scholes and Giggs weren't even in the professional team when they joined the club but they are still part of a long term plan, all youth players are.

In the end what I'm trying to show is that a long term plan includes players that aren't currently in the team, players that are in the team for the short to mid term and few players that are hoped to be in the team long term. It's not just about signing young players and a core player isn't necessarily a player that has been signed when he was young.
 
JPRouve said:
Yeah, the point was in the context of long term planning. Generally if you sign a young player, he isn't supposed to be a starter from day one in fact if we go back to your list, players like Scholes and Giggs weren't even in the professional team when they joined the club but they are still part of a long term plan, all youth players are.

In the end what I'm trying to show is that a long term plan includes players that aren't currently in the team, players that are in the team for the short to mid term and few players that are hoped to be in the team long term. It's not just about signing young players and a core player isn't necessarily a player that has been signed when he was young.
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Indeed, long term planning entails a lot more than just signing young players.
 
Easy prediction: He will come in and be very decent for few games - about 10. Then he will forget about good habits he acquired in Madrid and start picking up all bad habits that most of our players have and become mediocre.
 
ExoduS said:
Easy prediction: He will come in and be very decent for few games - about 10. Then he will forget about good habits he acquired in Madrid and start picking up all bad habits that most of our players have and become mediocre.
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Or he could be the person to force the others to adopt his habits
 
His transfer also proves no one out there has any clue where united going to strike next.
 
ExoduS said:
Easy prediction: He will come in and be very decent for few games - about 10. Then he will forget about good habits he acquired in Madrid and start picking up all bad habits that most of our players have and become mediocre.
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Nah. He'll be very good. But even so, it's hard to shine if you're in a team that doesn't work hard. Same with Varane. People are already shitting on him, when I thought he looked the most calm defender we've had in years and years.
 
dirkey said:
Again, perhaps I'm wrong there so! I'd see Casemiro as a trigger for opposition when we have ball. Didn't fit with my understanding of his system, but my knowledge isn't huge there, didn't watch loads of ajax
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Yeah when they sold Frenkie he used a real ball winning DM as the 6 and had blind build up from deep up to Gravenberch as the 8. Between Martinez, Blind, Timber, Mazraoui they essentially had 4 playmakers in their back 4.
 
AdamD said:
spot on. A winning mentality is essential - especially in the middle of the park.
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He has everything Rice has. Physicality, defensive technique, positional discipline, stamina, character / leadership. Additionally he is probably slightly better on the ball and is a proven champ. Only negative is he’s older but he’s got a few years left and the flip side of that is he’s cheaper than Rice.
 
bosnian_red said:
How doesn't he fit? Ten Hag didn't use Frenkie for too long. Look at them since Frenkie left. He used Edson Alvarez as a 6 and changed his build up structure. Frenkie is just a rare, unique player for him so he plans differently with and without him.
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Completely agree with you.

Erik ten Hag is a flexible coach and his methods are flexible where he adapts his players to those methods. Casemiro is a much better version of Edson Alvarez and is a fit for any method of play.

I think Erik ten Hag has realised after the two games against Brighton and Brentford that he needs a strong player in rest defense/defensive transition against the opposition transition to win the second ball and also to contain and manage large space against the quick counter. I honestly believe it would've been a big mistake to naively think that Frenkie de Jong on his own was going to improve us, both from a defensive and offensive transition perspective. FdJ would quite clearly elevate our build up ability but I do think the EPL would be too demanding for him against the oppo transition in the defensive phase. So having a strong/physical DM next to him would bring about better balance and would set us on our way towards controlling both the offensive and defensive transition which is extremely important if the aim is to defend high up the pitch. So controlling the defensive transition and managing the game off the ball is just as important as what the team does in possession.

Whether we get Frenkie de Jong or not, I believe it's important that we do try and sign a press resistant midfielder who has the ability to thread the lines and exhibit a class and guile from a deeper role that is missing right now. Eriksen could do the role but I don't believe he's best suited to that deeper role and he would be best utilised in a advanced attacking role.
 
this might honestly be our real first TRUE leader we've had in the squad since Roy Keane
 
You can’t please some people, just signed arguably the best CDM in the world and some fans think we should be paying this much for them. Try buying the ’best’ in any other position even at 30 years old, and it’s 60m minimum….
 
Bastian said:
Nah. He'll be very good. But even so, it's hard to shine if you're in a team that doesn't work hard. Same with Varane. People are already shitting on him, when I thought he looked the most calm defender we've had in years and years.
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Yeah. Agreed. For team to work you need group of players that work together well. For Cas to be effective we will have to make him click with whoever we pair him with. We don't have Modric and Cross at our team.

Varane is great comparation as we all though he would massively improve our defense and that didn't happen at all. We actually got worse somehow, and I don't think that was Varane's fault.

If that Serbian dude comes and can fulfill his potential, maybe we will have midfield.
 
It is good, that we address holes in our squad. Maybe I have an unpopular opinion, but I think that Casemiro won't work out here. Why? I watched almost every Real game last season. While he is definitely a warrior and has a winner mentality, he showed signs
of decline and had longer phases last season, where he played really awful. His passing is not the best and was partially abysmal. He played with Luka and Toni all those years, and his performances had a benefit of the synergy of that trio. At this point, I don't see
players in our midfield, that could grow into a similar flow. 30 years may not be an age for a deeper playing midfielder, but the price absolutely screams robbery and panic-buy and seem to become typically for us, which shouldn't be our aim.

Of course, I hope, that he will proof me wrong.
 
ExoduS said:
Yeah. Agreed. For team to work you need group of players that work together well. For Cas to be effective we will have to make him click with whoever we pair him with. We don't have Modric and Cross at our team.

Varane is great comparation as we all though he would massively improve our defense and that didn't happen at all. We actually got worse somehow, and I don't think that was Varane's fault.

If that Serbian dude comes and can fulfill his potential, maybe we will have midfield.
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Well Casemiro and Fred work together for Brazil so that should be a good start. we need to play Eriksen not Bruno alongside these 2 not Bruno
 
ExoduS said:
Yeah. Agreed. For team to work you need group of players that work together well. For Cas to be effective we will have to make him click with whoever we pair him with. We don't have Modric and Cross at our team.

Varane is great comparation as we all though he would massively improve our defense and that didn't happen at all. We actually got worse somehow, and I don't think that was Varane's fault.

If that Serbian dude comes and can fulfill his potential, maybe we will have midfield.
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We're linked to him every window and have been for, what, 5 years now? It was supposedly a done deal in 2018. I would be very surprised if he's a real target.
 
It’s utter madness that anyone would suggest we should have signed Declan Rice (overhyped Scott Parker) over one of the best midfielders in the world for the past 7 years. :smirk:
 
GoonerGirly said:
With the amount you’re paying him, he should be playing all your games when fit. You also don’t have any other options in his position.

Good signing. Not sure it’s great business considering his age, fee and high wages (kinda feels like Matic all over again), but he’s a proven winner and will undoubtedly improve your team. Excited to see him play in the PL.
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Matic is such a lazy, uneducated comparison tbh
 
sglowrider said:
Yeah but didn't you say the same thing about Bruno a couple of years ago?
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Who probably has been based on his quality over 2 seasons. It’s more a testament to our poor recruitment. Who has had more of a positive effect for at least a season?
 
macheda14 said:
Who probably has been based on his quality over 2 seasons. It’s more a testament to our poor recruitment. Who has had more of a positive effect for at least a season?
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Well, you look at the ceiling and the floor of a player's performance.

Bruno's ceiling has been pretty high -- the only question is how do we get the best out of him again?
 
Casemiro anaylsis on what he brings to utd. Just emphasis how much we need frenkie for build up play from the back.

 
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dutchred said:
Or he could be the person to force the others to adopt his habits
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I don't think he's that kind of player. He can bring his mentality and roughness for sure and if he's good he'll allow players like fred to be a little freer to roam/chase on the pitch but he won't influence other players much in the way they play.

Still, if United was to have even an average version of Casemiro for 2-3 years, it would still be a very interesting upgrade. What he'll exactly bring to the team is totally unpredictable though. Does he make defenders look better or does he need good defenders behind him to be agressive? What will happen if doesn't constantly have quick passing option like he did with Modric/Kroos ? I'm very curious to see but he'll surely bring something to the table.
 
Oly Francis said:
I don't think he's that kind of player. He can bring his mentality and roughness for sure and if he's good he'll allow players like fred to be a little freer to roam/chase on the pitch but he won't influence other players much in the way they play.

Still, if United was to have even an average version of Casemiro for 2-3 years, it would still be a very interesting upgrade. What he'll bring to the team is totally unpredictable. Does he make defenders look better or does he need good defenders behind him to be agressive? What will happen if doesn't constantly have quick passing option like he did with Modric/Kroos ? I'm very curious to see but he'll surely bring something to the table.
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He would have had a quick passing option if Utd hadn't gone all in for De Jong this summer
 
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