Casemiro (Out)

Mike Smalling said:
Rooney dropped off pretty gradually I'd say. The reason for his drop in output between 11/12 and 12/13 was the arrival of van Persie, which meant he played a different role and no longer took penalties. And he actually had a pretty decent goalscoring season under Moyes.
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For someone who wasn't the total pro and had been playing since he was 16, it's a testament to his talent and abilities that he was still kind of productive even during his last two seasons at United.
 
Here in Madrid we celebrated the sale of Casemiro. He was already old and playing poorly. But we didn't expect such huge amount for him. We opened champagne. Don't buy old players you're rich and top level club yet. You're making bad signings in the last many years and we don't understand why when you're still very rich. Florentino copied United and was his reference model for making a more modern competitive management. But somehow you lost it and football misses you in the top. City is the opposite and we can't even say why because we are cancelled if we do.
 
In fairness to Casemiro, without him last season we probably don't qualify for Champions League or win the League Cup.

Is that worth £60m? Possibly not. But it's something at least.
 
Adz_99 said:
In fairness to Casemiro, without him last season we probably don't qualify for Champions League or win the League Cup.

Is that worth £60m? Possibly not. But it's something at least.
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Without Casemiro the previous season that season would have gone to the dogs -- no CL and no League Cup. He was definitely worth every penny spent on him. But we all witnessed his calamitous decline last season.
 
Adz_99 said:
In fairness to Casemiro, without him last season we probably don't qualify for Champions League or win the League Cup.

Is that worth £60m? Possibly not. But it's something at least.
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I tried to figure out how much the CL was worth it but a lot of the money came down to sponsorship bonuses and I gave up, but it seemed like the Casemiro deal was fine all in all.

The problems the last few years are the massive fees on Sancho, Mount and Antony.
 
How reliable is this reporter? Sad times if he is reliable and Casemiro is staying as we need an upgrade on him and a reduction in the wage bill.
 
Playing for the national team is massively important to Brazilian players. Despite all the honors won at club level, Casemiro has only a single Copa America to his name at international level. There is a World Cup in the Americas in two years in which Brazil will be one of the favorites and I wouldn't be surprised if his biggest footballing goal at this point in his career is to get back into the squad for that tournament, maybe not as a starter but as an older head coming off the bench and helping out a younger squad in transition. If he goes to Saudi this summer he basically gives up on that whereas if he stays at United he gives himself a chance.
 
Who are all these random nobodies that keep getting attention?
 
AbusementPark said:
How reliable is this reporter? Sad times if he is reliable and Casemiro is staying as we need an upgrade on him and a reduction in the wage bill.
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He primarily covers Frankfurt for a website that probably shouldn't be taken too seriously.
 
There is surely more than one club in Saudi. I still think he will be gone by end of August.
But whoever thought it is smart to give him a long term contract needs to waterboarded
 
Needs to go join his buddy Ronaldo.

Fantastic in his first season for us, albeit unreliable at times due to his suspensions.

Wish him the best, but getting £30m for him would be a steal.
 
It probably hinges on whether he has hopes to get back in the Brazil squad or not. Saudi Arabia when you're already dropped probably kills any chance of it happening even if he gets some form back.
 
Powderfinger said:
Playing for the national team is massively important to Brazilian players. Despite all the honors won at club level, Casemiro has only a single Copa America to his name at international level. There is a World Cup in the Americas in two years in which Brazil will be one of the favorites and I wouldn't be surprised if his biggest footballing goal at this point in his career is to get back into the squad for that tournament, maybe not as a starter but as an older head coming off the bench and helping out a younger squad in transition. If he goes to Saudi this summer he basically gives up on that whereas if he stays at United he gives himself a chance.
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Pretty sure he had a falling out with ten Hag at the end of the season. He wasn't in the FA Cup final squad and there was no news of injury. Amrabat's brother alleged on Dutch TV that he [Casemiro] was told he wouldn't be starting and refused to be in the squad (this was later backtracked from the former when he saw the press it was getting all over social media).

There's also been some reports in the last few weeks that some of the senior players like Casemiro and Varane were at loggerheads - claiming that the hyper focus on tactical rigidity was too much, and these players have won loads in their career with much looser tactical systems.

Now that Hag is staying, I’d be surprised if Casemiro stays.

Question is if Saudi cough up, as that’s the only place I can see him ending up at.
 
flappyjay said:
Would we be able to break even with that much for ffp?
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Don't think so.

£70 Million fee. He signed a 350k p/w contract in 2022 for 4+1 years.

350k p/w = £18.2 million a year.

£70 Million + (£18.2 Million * 4) = £142.8 Million.

£142.8 Million amortised over the 4 year length of contract is £35.7 Million per year, meaning his current book value is about £71.4 million.

If we sold for £35 million it's a loss on the books of £35 million.

That's my understanding anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Pretty sure he had a falling out with ten Hag at the end of the season. He wasn't in the FA Cup final squad and there was no news of injury. Amrabat's brother alleged on Dutch TV that he [Casemiro] was told he wouldn't be starting and refused to be in the squad (this was later backtracked from the former when he saw the press it was getting all over social media).

There's also been some reports in the last few weeks that some of the senior players like Casemiro and Varane were at loggerheads - claiming that the hyper focus on tactical rigidity was too much, and these players have won loads in their career with much looser tactical systems.

Now that Hag is staying, I’d be surprised if Casemiro stays.

Question is if Saudi cough up, as that’s the only place I can see him ending up at.
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It's about time Becks and Inter Miami did us a favor. That would be a good destination for Cas.
 
Prodigal7 said:
It's about time Becks and Inter Miami did us a favor. That would be a good destination for Cas.
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Don't think MLS do "big" transfers like that. Unless we are willing to let him go for like £5-10m, America is off the table. The record MLS transfer is about £14m.
 
Berbaclass said:
Don't think so.

£70 Million fee. He signed a 350k p/w contract in 2022 for 4+1 years.

350k p/w = £18.2 million a year.

£70 Million + (£18.2 Million * 4) = £142.8 Million.

£142.8 Million amortised over the 4 year length of contract is £35.7 Million per year, meaning his current book value is about £71.4 million.

If we sold for £35 million it's a loss on the books of £35 million.

That's my understanding anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Wages aren’t taken into account for amortisation.
He’s been here for 2 years so book value is £35m I.e half of his contract left.
If we sell for £35m is net zero effect. Anything above would be a bonus.
 
Berbaclass said:
Wages are included.
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I’m not knowledgable about this stuff but surely the rest of his contract is null and therefore shouldn’t be included?

It’s not like we’re still paying him that contract once he’s gone as Saudi will be covering it in full. Otherwise surely it’s incredibly hard for any top club paying relatively high wages to make any profit on players. If let’s say Sancho moves to Dortmund on lower wages I get we may need to agree on compensation for his high contract with us which would be included, but for Case and Saudi that’s not the case.
 
daba said:
I’m not knowledgable about this stuff but surely the rest of his contract is null and therefore shouldn’t be included?

It’s not like we’re still paying him that contract once he’s gone as Saudi will be covering it in full. Otherwise surely it’s incredibly hard for any top club paying relatively high wages to make any profit on players. If let’s say Sancho moves to Dortmund on lower wages I get we may need to agree on compensation for his high contract with us which would be included, but for Case and Saudi that’s not the case.
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He has 2 years remaining on his contract and has a current book value of ~£71 Million. Any fee which we receive for a transfer is subtracted from the book value to determine profit/loss.

That's how I understand it to work.

It's why Chelsea were signing players to 7-year contracts to benefit from spreading the cost over an additional two years.

Sancho, his current approx book value is ~£57 million. He has a yearly cost to us of £28.8 Million.
 
The Purley King said:
You’ve got me second guessing myself now.
I was pretty certain wages weren’t included and now I’m not sure……
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Don't, amortization is the transfer fee spread over the length of the contract. It has nothing to do with wages which is an operational expense.

The guy doesn't know what he is talking about..
 
Berbaclass said:
Don't think so.

£70 Million fee. He signed a 350k p/w contract in 2022 for 4+1 years.

350k p/w = £18.2 million a year.

£70 Million + (£18.2 Million * 4) = £142.8 Million.

£142.8 Million amortised over the 4 year length of contract is £35.7 Million per year, meaning his current book value is about £71.4 million.

If we sold for £35 million it's a loss on the books of £35 million.

That's my understanding anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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If this was the case then it would be super lucrative for players to transfer around alot. If this was the case then why sell player if you are bound to paying the wages over the contract period no matter what.

I would be super surprised if wages were included since the wages stop when the player leaves. Of course transfer fee to the club that sold said player still will be paid.
 
AlexUTD said:
If this was the case then it would be super lucrative for players to transfer around alot. If this was the case then why sell player if you are bound to paying the wages over the contract period no matter what.

I would be super surprised if wages were included since the wages stop when the player leaves. Of course transfer fee to the club that sold said player still will be paid.
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Yeah I know I was confused. I was wrong.
 
flappyjay said:
Would we be able to break even with that much for ffp?
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I think he cost 60m+10m in addons. Let's assume that the add-ons haven't been met. So, his amortization cost is 15m/yr (60/4). If the fee is 35m Euros, which is ~30m gbp, then we would just about break even.
 
Berbaclass said:
Wages are included.
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For amortisation only but the moment we sell him his fee has to cover his transfer fee only, I think a loss of about 5m will be acceptable given the huge wage savings we would be making. We'd be saving about 54m from his contracted wages over the next three years so if we get about 30m and lose 5m we are still in the positive by about 13m this year. 13m is enough to pay for a 40m signing on 120k/week over a five year contract.
 
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