Carlo Ancelotti | Real Madrid manager

DeGea said:
Genuine question, United fan biases aside, is Ancelotti the best manager to have ever managed in the professional game?
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Nah I don't think he is at all. SAF aside, the below were all better in my opinion.

Michels, Busby, Shankly, Paisley, Lippi, Trappatoni, Cruyff, Happel, Clough, Munoz.

I don't even think he is the best of the last 20 years, SAF aside either. I think Pep, Klopp, and Mourinho have all done better in their careers.

For Ancelotti, he has a similar argument against his league titles as Pep. Two of the four countries he won the league with were Bayern and PSG, it's almost a given that anyone would win the league with them two clubs. His Chelsea team was assembled with a small fortune as well. His CL wins are his best achievements to be used to judge him but Zidane had also won 3 CL titles and I don't think he is in the same discussion as Pep, Klopp and Mourinho never mind the other managers I listed.

Ancelotti is a great manager but not at GOAT level in my opinion.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Nah I don't think he is at all. SAF aside, the below were all better in my opinion.

Michels, Busby, Shankly, Paisley, Lippi, Trappatoni, Cruyff, Happel, Clough, Munoz.

I don't even think he is the best of the last 20 years, SAF aside either. I think Pep, Klopp, and Mourinho have all done better in their careers.

For Ancelotti, he has a similar argument against his league titles as Pep. Two of the four countries he won the league with were Bayern and PSG, it's almost a given that anyone would win the league with them two clubs. His Chelsea team was assembled with a small fortune as well. His CL wins are his best achievements to be used to judge him but Zidane had also won 3 CL titles and I don't think he is in the same discussion as Pep, Klopp and Mourinho never mind the other managers I listed.

Ancelotti is a great manager but not at GOAT level in my opinion.
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Carlo's league record is basically the perfect counter to anyone who claims what Pep has done is easy, for two decades he had a top 2 team/club in the league and only won the league four times, two in "one team league's" and he also blew the title with PSG the other year and looked likely to do the same with Bayern in the second year until he was fired. Not to mention Atletico won La Liga when he was at Real (that Leti squad cost less than half of Bale if I recall correctly).

Cliche as this is but his biggest strength is also his biggest weakness (I find the phrase overused in general but it is certainly applicable with Carlo), his relaxed approach to management can lead to incredible highs when the goings good (Stoke at home in the double season was the best I have ever seen us play) but his sides tend to get complacent at awfully inappropriate times and when the results and performances dip is when the manager has to make adjustments tactically and that's when he really frustrates (and largely why his league record is poor) he just doesn't react for ages at best or atall at worst and carries on like he does when the goings good, eventually with the teams he controls things do sort themselves out by hook or by crook but (as was the case for us in season two) it is often too late to recover as far as the title is concerned.

I don't like being too critical of him because I love him as a person and he gave us our first ever double but he shouldn't even be in the conversation when it comes to talking about the greatest ever. Just out of fellow PL winning managers Mou, Fergie, Klopp, Pep and even Conte (domestically atleast) are well ahead of him in my opinion.
 
He is a class manager, not the best ever obviously, but he is among the top managers. Sure his league record isn’t great, but his CL record is, he also reached 3 CL finals in 5 years. Seems very respected amongst his ex players.

Btw he often reminds me of our semi final defeat to him in 2007. That 2nd leg and the comments of the Milan players back then that they like playing against us as we “play proper football, whereas Liverpool play anti-football” or something like that made us finally change our approach in Europe the following season.
 


Class act.

In terms of how good he is/was, he's certainly one of the best managers of his generation which puts him on a longlist for the best of all time. There are a few you'd put ahead of him on that list though.

His record in terms of league titles are usually cited as his flaw but then that's counterbalanced by how succesful he was in other competitions. If "only" winning one Serie A, one PL, one Ligue 1 and one Bundesliga title is the bad spot on your CV then you've done alright.

Would love to see him manage Italy at some point, see if he can translate his cup success to the international stage....
 
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golden_blunder said:
Dog shit again today

take away DCL and Richarlison and this team would be in a relegation battle. Ok maybe Digne too.

midfield is atrocious, centre backs are awful. Coleman hasn’t been the same since his bad injury and their keeper.. Eugh
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Shows how good a manager he is, doing so well with such a shite squad.
 
sullydnl said:


Class act.

In terms of how good he is/was, he's certainly one of the best managers of his generation which puts him on a longlist for the best of all time. There are a few you'd put ahead of him on that list though.

His record in terms of league titles are usually cited as his flaw but then that's counterbalanced by how succesful he was in other competitions. If "only" winning one Serie A, one PL, one Ligue 1 and one Bundesliga title is the bad spot on your CV then you've done alright.

Would love to see him manage Italy at some point, see if he can translate his cup success to the international stage....
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Wasn't it Zidane the manager when Ramos scored that equalizer against Athletico ?
 
He's doing well! The squad is as good as I can remember for an Everton team and players performing for him. Richarliason sharper than I've ever seen him. Davies is the sort of player anyone would want in their squad. Strong throughout and top 4 not impossible.
 
His team are best on Mersyside right now. It's a while since you coud say that. Makes our 1st half performance against them Blue noses look pretty impressive.
 
bond19821982 said:
Wasn't it Zidane the manager when Ramos scored that equalizer against Athletico ?
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Nah, Ancelotti was manager for that game, that was the final that ended 4-1 to Real.

You might be thinking of the other CL final against Atletico. That was under Zidane and Ramos scored there too.
 
He is doing well, this is as good an Everton side as I've seen in decades, but really he should've been soundly beaten in his last two games but for some defensive howlers so I'm not going to let those results sway my opinion. I'm still not a big fan of that style of football. It'll be easier to judge him at the end of the season, the important thing is that Everton fans are happy with him and he looks like he's got them on the right track. It's hard to see them dramatically improving their starting XI without heavy investment now, a bit like Tottenham a few years ago.

He's also not the best manager ever, one of the best of his generation for sure but not the best ever.
 
DeGea said:
OK, fair enough. So apart from SAF, who is the GOAT manager? And why?
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There can't be more than one manager who is THE greatest but based on the managers I've seen, I'd place Guardiola and Mohrinho above Ancelotti. And the reasons are clear. They were more dominant domestically while having one less CL. Other than that, I think the emphasis on CL is overrated. Zidane is not one of footballs greatest ever. And there's many managers who built successful eras domestically and tasted European success. Livepool's greats and Busby come to mind. Then there are the managers like Cryuff and Michels who had extraordinary influence. Ancelotti is neither here nor there. He isn't a visionary coach nor is he ridiculously successful enough to beat those that were.

For me, there is only one GOAT as much as I hate that term and that's obviously Sir Alex Ferguson.
 
Samid said:
He's washed up. There's a reason why he ended up at Everton of all clubs.
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Well then he fits them quite well, no? Basically they can finish anywhere between 5th and 9th when you look at their squad and when you add their mentality.
 
Samid said:
He's washed up. There's a reason why he ended up at Everton of all clubs.
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He's not really that much different to what he's always been, he's never been a particularly good league manager.

His CL record and the fact he's a top guy has led to that largely being overlooked.
 
What's going on there? DCL in my fantasy team and the wins and goals seem to have dried up. 0-1 at home to a relegated Sheffield United.
 
They were in tune and overachieving at the start of the season. Injuries did not help but they're not far off where they should be.
 
When he was at Bayern there was no clear structure, plan and strategy in Bayern's game. I also remember lots of players criticizing his training. Lots of players even did some extra training on their own because training under Ancelotti was not intensive enough.

Maybe his phiilosophy of football is just not working nowadays.
 
Everton are a fairly big club and have been spending a good amount of money in the last 5 years or so, and I keep thinking they're going to break into the top 6 in the way Leicester have managed.

But they've failed to finish higher than 8th in those times. I thought appointing a quality manager like Ancelotti - used to managing big clubs competing for titles - would help get them over the line. But they've had a really bad finish to the season and are back in 8th again. It just doesn't seem to be happening for them in the way it has for Leicester.
 
They're currently 8th, three points off 6th which is the absolute highest I would have thought they could finish at the start of the season. Hardly that bad. Especially given it's his first full season and they finished 12th last year.
 
sullydnl said:
They're currently 8th, three points off 6th which is the absolute highest I would have thought they could finish at the start of the season. Hardly that bad. Especially given it's his first full season and they finished 12th last year.
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They'll not be happy with that. Or with 12th last season.

They're not spending £20m-£45m on a large amount of players in their squad, and appointing a manager like Carlo Ancelotti, in order to get mid table finishes and miss out on Europe every season.

I like, and rate, Ancelotti - and I think they should definitely keep him - but they've been spending the same kind of money as Leicester in the last 5 years or so, and have been aiming at achieving the same as them by breaking into the top six and reaching Europe.

So I'm just saying they've surprised me by only achieving 8th-12th finishes during that time. And this year seemed to be the year they were really competing for a European spot, even the CL with games in hand. But they've really tailed off towards the end and look like missing out altogether again.
 
sullydnl said:
They're currently 8th, three points off 6th which is the absolute highest I would have thought they could finish at the start of the season. Hardly that bad. Especially given it's his first full season and they finished 12th last year.
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They were 8th in 18-19. Under Marco Silva. I don’t think it’s what they hired a supposedly world class manager for.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Everton are a fairly big club and have been spending a good amount of money in the last 5 years or so, and I keep thinking they're going to break into the top 6 in the way Leicester have managed.

But they've failed to finish higher than 8th in those times. I thought appointing a quality manager like Ancelotti - used to managing big clubs competing for titles - would help get them over the line. But they've had a really bad finish to the season and are back in 8th again. It just doesn't seem to be happening for them in the way it has for Leicester.
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Leicester are way better at recruitment. They’ve sold some massive names in the last 5 years, but just reinvest the cash and unearth another gem. Kante and Mahrez, signed for a combined 5.8m, were sold for 90m. They just signed N’didi for 17m and carried on. Maguire is signed for 17m, sold for 80m and they carried on - Soyuncu and Evans are their current pairing costing a combined 20m.

Their youth academy is producing too, with Chilwell (sold for 50m) and Barnes. Plus there are other examples of great recruitment such as Vardy for 1m, Tielemans for 25m, Maddison for 20m. They’re just a very well run club.

Everton on the other hand seem to be a bit more scattergun in their approach. They’ll spend big, but you look at some signings and just wonder what the guy who signed off on that was smoking. 50m on Sigurdsson for example.
 
Hansinity said:
When he was at Bayern there was no clear structure, plan and strategy in Bayern's game. I also remember lots of players criticizing his training. Lots of players even did some extra training on their own because training under Ancelotti was not intensive enough.

Maybe his phiilosophy of football is just not working nowadays.
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I was surprised that him and your players didnt get along, considering he was well-liked by just about every player here at RM, players pretty much begged Perez to not fire him.
 
sullydnl said:
They're currently 8th, three points off 6th which is the absolute highest I would have thought they could finish at the start of the season. Hardly that bad. Especially given it's his first full season and they finished 12th last year.
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Not even EL qualification in a season in which Spurs were terrible would be a big disappointment imo.

Carlo is still decent coach but it's obvious that he's way past his best as a manager and he's no longer the manager he used to be pre his sacking from Real Madrid. His last 2 managerial stents have been a huge failure and he had to step down and manage Everton in order to stay in top football. He's not as good as he's used to be. He's just well liked so people don't want to be harsh on him.
 
Like other managers he has been heavily overrated on here all season, particularly during our slow start. However, 8th is around where you would expect Everton's squad to finish regardless of manager.
 
acnumber9 said:
They were 8th in 18-19. Under Marco Silva. I don’t think it’s what they hired a supposedly world class manager for.
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But the hard truth is that a team like Everton is probably Ancelotti's level these days too, so in a way it's a nice fit. He's doing just about what should be expected of him with them, and of course that reflects on his current status as a head coach just as well.
 
sullydnl said:
They're currently 8th, three points off 6th which is the absolute highest I would have thought they could finish at the start of the season. Hardly that bad. Especially given it's his first full season and they finished 12th last year.
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Koeman, Big Sam and Silva all finished 7-8th and were fired soon after. Two of those got sacked for starting the following seasons poorly while Big Sam was sacked after just half a season in charge despite guiding them from 13th to 8th.

If the manager was called Sam this season he would’ve been hounded out the door. Somehow the expectations seem to be lower if you’re called Carlo and have a greater CV.
 
sullydnl said:
They're currently 8th, three points off 6th which is the absolute highest I would have thought they could finish at the start of the season. Hardly that bad. Especially given it's his first full season and they finished 12th last year.
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Finishing 6-8th would be fairly reasonable but disappointing in the context of this season where other sides have been dropping points and a 4-5th place was achievable if not for some shockingly bad performances. I think the main thing people are annoyed about is the performances that have been put in at times. When we are at our bottom level it’s really really bad.
 
Don't think their position has anything to do with their manager and it's more about the squad(or lack of it) and the injuries they sustained during the season:
- They have no decent option at RB
- Alan & Doucure have taken turns into getting injured this season, forcing them to play with quite a weak midfield
- Richarlison has been wank all season
- Gomes and Sigurdsson haven't been spectacular as well
- They have only one goalscorer in their team and he got injured for a few games in their most important spell of the season
- Their bench is full of overrated garbage
 
SqualorVictoria said:
But the hard truth is that a team like Everton is probably Ancelotti's level these days too, so in a way it's a nice fit. He's doing just about what should be expected of him with them, and of course that reflects on his current status as a head coach just as well.
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He’s the third highest paid manager in the league. It’s not unreasonable for Everton to expect he should do better than run of the mill managers would.
 
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