They had 4 fewer points, and were third because of the competition having dropped like 5 points total to that point. The team as a whole is worse, plays worse and is less dominant and far more reliant on the individual brilliance of Vini and Benzema. That we're doing better than last season is a given - every league leader everywhere is, it's the covid effect -
Carlo Ancelotti | Real Madrid manager
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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I think only the game at OT when Hernandez scored after 36 seconds qualified for that description. We were the better team during 2 legs of the CL but they were still tight affairs decided by 1 goal.
You guys might even have won that tie if it was Drogba starting instead of Torres, scored a banger when he came on in the 2nd leg iirc.
We also didn't play well and were reliant on individuals at this point in that season. We finished third so it's not like it being third at this point was an aberration.
The team started clicking as an actual team with the Modric-Di Maria-Alonso midfield, which according to this article, only began to be used on January 12th 2014.
Not really. The team began clicking by november, right after losing the clasico. The solution to play Di Maria just made us better. We certainly weren't smashing teams left and right by tennis scores on individual quality alone...
The first leg at a push but the second leg at Old Trafford was probably the most gutless UCL exit we've had to date.
We did next to nothing and even when we somehow scored to put us within a goal of recovering we let you score again a minute later.
I've always been a fan boy, but his work with madrid this season has just been exceptional
Contrary to the opinions here i believe that Ancelotti is another one of the washed-up and on decline generation managers alongside Mourinho and Benitez. The main difference is that he is not so obsessed with a concrete style or tactical set up and as always his strength is the man management. Thats why he can still do a decent job at a top club like Real Madrid. But he is NOT the guy who can lead them forward in the next years. Let him win his missing La Liga title and let him go after that to manage Roma for example after the incoming sacking of Mourinho there...
Oh yes please, and hire Ajax manager to replace him
You make a fair point, but Carlo's fecking cool, so kindly delete this bullshit
He was always like that though. Brilliant adaptable tactician who gets the best out of his biggest stars and motivates them for big games, but never a top-top manager (like Sir Alex was or Pep/Klopp/Mourinho before the meltdown etc.). Even his AC Milan side had only won 1 Serie A in what, 8 or 9 seasons? And I don't think that his level has dropped much.
I can see Erik Ten Hag as a coach of Bayern or Barcelona. Real Madrid?! I don't think so. Florentino is a big fan of Nagelsmann but as i remember he was a fan of Pochettino also.. I think that Thomas Tuchel would be a good fit for Real Madrid in the near future..
Ancelotti was top-top and one of the greatest of his generation, he has better record in the UCL than Mourinho,Pep, SAF and Klopp, which put him between the greatest.
SAF and Pep know themselves how hard is to compete in UCL.
His league record isn't huge, but he resurrected A.C Milan when they were in a massive slump, then proceeded to break the record points in a Serie A champions, and then win the UCL.
Being of the greatest managers in the history of the UCL put him between the greatest, considering other managers like Pep and SAF underachieved in the competition.
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He wasn't, not really. Zidane is basically an improved version of him and even when he was winning 3 consecutive CL titles no one really put him on Pep's level — for a good reason. Ancelotti is a fantastic manager whose best quality is getting the best out of his best players — and when his team allows it, he can win any game. And when we talk about his CL record, we're talking about someone who's had a backline of Maldini, Nesta, Stam & Cafu, with Pirlo, Sheva, Kaka and Seedorf in front of them. Or the ridiculously stacked Madrid side that won Decima where he had maximised Cristiano's output by adjusting Di Maria's role.
It's not a shame to be below Ferguson or Guardiola in the all-time list to be fair. And he's still comfortably in the second tier. But his own level haven't changed that much over the years — he does what he does best and at Madrid that had the likes of Benzema, Modrić and the emerging Vinicius (on whom he had been a great influence by the way), he elevates them to title-winning heights, while at Everton he struggled to make a significant impact because the squad isn't already good enough on its own.
That's your opinion, for me he is one the greatest of his generation.
A top 3 UCL manager in History, has to be one the greatest in tier 1, considering that Ferguson and Guardiola underachieved in the UCL, especially Ferguson considering how much time he was at United (27 years).
Zidane isn' in the conversation, as he managed for a very short time, he hasn't replicated his work elsewhere, and i don't think he will.
Your whole argument discredit Guardiola as he managed only great sides with unlimited fund, he isn't making Everton or Spurs better.
Let's agree to disagree, you won't change my mind about Ancelotti, i won't change yours.
For me Ancelotti is in the tier behind the highest level managers despite his UCL record. It's also worth noting for nearly two decades (between Juve and Bayern) he "only" won four titles despite all his jobs being elite. Pep in those jobs would have probably won triple yet still get discredited because "anyone could do that at those clubs".
His teams have a habit of getting complacent randomly and at awfully inappropriate times, the biggest and most glaring examples being Istanbul and 99 vs United. When it's good however it's very good, a lot of the best games I've ever seen us play came under him.
Overall he's a great manager but I just think he's missing that aura of invincibility Fergie, Pep or prime Mou have/had.
Sorry, but what aura of invincibility SAF and Mourinho had in Europe?
I can give you that Pep did have an invincibility aura with Barça(only with Barça, his City side seems vulnerable in Europe) the other 2 nope.
Do i have to bring how United's Ferguson got knocked out of the Europe early stages by a couple of turkish and russian teams in the 90s(before they won the UCL)?
There is a reason why even many United fans think SAF underachieved in Europe
Mourninho himself was very lucky in his 2004 CL win at Porto, United's wrongly disallowed goal and Ludovic Giuly(best Monaco player by far) injured in the first minutes in the final.
Or that was because of his invincibility aura?
I only see Pep's Barca with an invincibility aura, and Arrigo Sacchi's Milan... not SAF and Mourinho, despite how great they were.
Ancelotti never won the double of CL and the league, he didn't even finish 2nd in the years he won the CL. Ranking him as the best of his generation would be very generous.
I don't see anything special in what he has been doing this season either. The league is the weakest it's ever been, he should be running away with it.
I don't see anything special in what he has been doing this season either. The league is the weakest it's ever been, he should be running away with it.
And, SAF never left his comfort zone or Pep never had to work with relatively low budgets. Both did average in the CL considering the teams they managed.
I personally think SAF and Pep are better than Ancelotti, but Ancelotti is more than a Tier-2 manager. If league titles mattered more, then that Real team that won 4 CLs in 5 years yet only won 1 league title in those 5 years would be called a failure. Right or wrong, league titles do not carry the same weight as the CL..I do not think that Milan or Real fans/players would like to exchange any single CL title with multiple league titles..
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From a neutral perspective, I'd love to see him get the Italian national team job at some point. An Ancelotti Italy team in the World Cup would just be cool.
I'm on board with that, but like the time we didn't go for Klopp I don't think the club will go for him. Would be great news if it happens though.
jump to Madrid from Ajax?
Does he speak Spanish? He doesn't have to be a master but the non latin coaches (Toshack, Beenhaker, Hiddink,Heynckes) had already been in la liga before.
And even forgetting the language, give the "neo galácticos" to someone who has never trained / won in the big leagues? It seems very hasty
Either way, no chance he's on par with SAF.
I wouldn't have him in the top bracket of managers I've seen.
Funny how this is thought about managers but not players.
When you rate a manager and compare their ability , you have to consider where they work as well. Ancelotti finished 10th last season at Everton , yet he is walking the league with Madrid and strong contender for UCL as well. So the conclusion was , It's Everton whom were finished not him. Same reason i don't really rate Pep, cause whatever he does, lesser manager does it too, i mean was Manuel Pellegrini a world class manager ? He won the league with City just fine, many barca manager after Pep also won the league and countless of Bayern Manager too, so what makes Pep any special ?
We're not winning the CL with Ancelotti and there's not many available "proven" managers around. So yeah, we should go for the one who genuinely could be great imo
Ancelotti is like zidane, very good at man management. Tactically flexible depending on the strengths of his team. Bayern players complained about his training and intensity of the training after he replaced Guardiola at Bayern.
I think he would do alright at Utd, he isnt a manager to rock the boat in public and will work with what hes given. Should have been given the utd job at somepoint in his career but that time may have passed.
I think he would do alright at Utd, he isnt a manager to rock the boat in public and will work with what hes given. Should have been given the utd job at somepoint in his career but that time may have passed.
Completely forgot he managed Bayern, he's had so many short spells at clubs Chelsea, PSG, Real (the first time), Bayern, Napoli, Everton
One of the reasons the league is the weakest it's been in a while is because the club Ancelotti is managing isn't in good shape either.
Real Madrid have barely made any transfers in two years. Odegaard (who promptly left), Camavinga, and Alaba, only the latter being a starter. We lost Varane and Ramos in a single summer. Transfers like Hazard and Jovic continue to be massive busts (at least Eden scored a goal last week), and the players on the last year of contract like Bale, Isco and Marcelo are only one level above useless (well, Bale isn't). We are still playing Lucas Vazquez as a fullback in the majority of games because Carvajal is dying.
We have a worse squad than last year and basically tanked the season to spend money on Mbappe and company this summer.
In that context, Ancelotti has us on pace to pick up 86 points, which is about the same on average as Zidane did in his 2nd stint (87 and 84), and was enough to win the league once and come within 2 points the second time. We are 4 points clear at the top, 2nd is Sevilla who are on a similar pace as last season, which was their highest placement ever iirc. We are in good position to win the league.
For us to have a bigger advantage (say, 8 points), we'd need to be on pace for 90-92 points. I don't think you can really ask a manager to substantially improve their team's performance while having a weaker squad.
He is not doing an amazing job because the defense is quite leaky, but to me things are going as well as I could have reasonably expected.
It's so cute to watch how RM fans talk about getting managers who need a season or 2 to get going.I'm on board with that, but like the time we didn't go for Klopp I don't think the club will go for him. Would be great news if it happens though.
You people are going to have your handerchiefs out after 6 months if you're not challenging for the title
Folks, you know, Ferguson is a true legend of the game and Guardiola / Klopp are the most influential managers right now… but Carlo is up there, admittedly outside of the PL echo chamber, and not yet fully washed up.
He won 1 at Bayern, 1 at Chelsea, 1 at PSG. He was 3 points off 1st in his first Liga season, in which he won the Cup and the CL, fair to say RM were at least the joint-best team that season.
So really the problem here is "why did he only win 1 league title in a gazillion years at Milan" more than anything.
Winning the double is not as difficult as winning it with the clubs that weren't necessarily competing for it in the previous years. Milan had not been to a CL semi-final in 8 years and Ancelotti took them all the way.
Real lost 4-1 to Dortmund the previous year and they had not been able to knock out a serious contender in a long time despite Mourinho taking them past the Ro 16, he clearly hit a ceiling and then came Ancelotti and he took them past that ceiling by dismantling Pep's Bayern 5-0. The same Bayern that prior to Pep was destroying everyone. That was something.
He took PSG to their first 1/4 final since 1996, His Napoli went toe to toe with Liverpool and PSG in the CL and with Juventus in the Serie A. It is not fair to judge a manager's achievments based on results and ignore the context in which he operates.
You might say that now. But that was not the general impression though. Everybody thought they would be struggling without Ramos Varane and with Modric getting older. It seems he's been handling that well ?
When Ancelotti won La Décima, Real Madrid finished on 87 points, same as Barcelona, practically the same goal difference as Barcelona (+66 to +67). They finished 3rd because of head-to-head tiebreaker.
Given this context I think it's a little over the top to say he didn't even finish 2nd like it's some disaster.
Given this context I think it's a little over the top to say he didn't even finish 2nd like it's some disaster.
He was never expected to win it for Milan in his first seasons. They were too far behind. And even less in his last 2 seasons. The 4 in between are the legitimate ones to ask questions about and he certainly put up a fight.
There are 3 years that he had the joint best squad with Juventus (2004 to 2006) and a fourth where he had the joint best squad with Inter (2007). In all of these seasons the other club getting knocked out of the CL early gave them an immense advantage to win the league. And in 2007 he started with points docked and could never beat that Adriano-Ibra Inter on a marathon. He gave up the league and went all in on the CL. With the rewards we know.
@Iker Quesadillas fair points regarding the situation this season, the only difference from the last couple of seasons is that there was at least another club capable of getting 80+ points which isn't the case this time.
Carlo Ancelotti's problems with the domestic championships is a really interesting topic, because as his career suggests, the Italian is (or rather was) a really top coach. The main reason, in my opinion, is that his teams lack consistency, which is extremely necessary in marathons such as championships. Ancelotti is able to produce performance at the highest level from his teams, but he cannot maintain it long enough. That's why these tournament battles are his ''thing''. The main reason for the lack of this consistency (apart from the typical for him more relaxed regime of training and preparation) is the lack of sufficient control over the individual matches.
The Italian's methods lead to relying on the individual quality of his players to "get out" of more tied matches, and against equal opponents is played mainly on the counterattack. This plan is almost always successful, because the game plan for the match is strictly followed by the players, everyone is focused and fighting for the same goal. The problems come when his team has to dominate weaker opponents - usually the quality of his players is enough to win the match without much difficulty, allowing them to play offensively and have fun.
But when it comes out against a fighter team like Elche, for example, Ancelotti's team easily loses control of the match, put under pressure from the opponent. There are too many "open" matches against supposedly unpretentious opponents, which increases the risk of losing points, which at the end of the season weighs down the rankings. .
The Italian's methods lead to relying on the individual quality of his players to "get out" of more tied matches, and against equal opponents is played mainly on the counterattack. This plan is almost always successful, because the game plan for the match is strictly followed by the players, everyone is focused and fighting for the same goal. The problems come when his team has to dominate weaker opponents - usually the quality of his players is enough to win the match without much difficulty, allowing them to play offensively and have fun.
But when it comes out against a fighter team like Elche, for example, Ancelotti's team easily loses control of the match, put under pressure from the opponent. There are too many "open" matches against supposedly unpretentious opponents, which increases the risk of losing points, which at the end of the season weighs down the rankings. .
Nah, not really. At juventus at the time he finished 2nd twice with the highest points ever for 2nd place. At milan it was a combination of Moggi+genuine lack of interest at the club towards the league(and later the team just wasn't good enough). At PSG he spent 18 months, Chelsea 2 seasons, Madrid 2 seasons, Bayern a little over 1 season
We should just keep hiring interim managers
Feck no.