Captaincy…

JB7 said:
So you'd want a mute and a sicknote to be captain before Bruno? Great. Agree on Ronaldo btw.
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Bruno is not captain material.

Throwing a hissy fit and rolling around does not equate to leadership. It's immature and shows weakness.
 
Ronaldo if he stays.

Ten Hag just needs to tell Harry that he's decided to do him a favour and take him out of the spotlight a bit.
 
The captains post-SAF has ruined the legacy of that role. I mean look at the ones during SAF's reign compared to those that followed:

Moyes: Inherited Vidic as captain but ended up leaving halfway through the season. Appointed a heavily declined and wantaway Rooney

LvG: Kept Rooney as captain who was a shadow of his former self and made his famous "my captain shall always play" quote which meant we were stuck with him on the pitch.

Mourinho: finally got rid of Rooney but proceeded to appoint quiet-man and okayish winger turned full back Valencia who barely could speak a word of English. Then went for average winger turned makeshift LB Young who never really struck us as a leader on the pitch.

Ole: Less is said the better. Weird to appoint a newly-signed player without any pedigree for the role. Decision has been made worse by the fact the has never acted as the leader on and off the pitch even during his decent seasons.

So might aswell appoint McTominay for all I care.
 
Bilbo said:
I've always found it difficult to fathom any real interest over who is the captain. Really good sides should and do have multiple players capable of leading on the pitch, and coaches are dictating the rhythm of a performance strategically. If it wasn't such a long held tradition I doubt most sides would even bother appointing one for any in game purposes.

Off the pitch is where you would expect to see an individual performing leadership duties. Organising the squad and being a mentor for younger players, and probably the spokesman for the squad with the management team. The right person for those responsibilities is usually obvious amongst a group. For all we know Harry is the natural leader within the squad.
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You are absolutely correct. Who wears the armband matters more to the fans than the players. Leaders are going to lead no matter who wears the armband. Valencia was our captain for a while and barely spoke English
 
Honestly, in Maguire's shoes I would step down at the end of the season. He can wrap it up in a way that makes it look like he wants the new manager to pick his own man etc. Think it would not only he good for the team, but good for Maguire too. The captaincy is just an extra thing that he doesn't need right now.

In terms of who though, then I dunno and I'd argue it doesn't really matter. Probably De Gea though.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
You are absolutely correct. Who wears the armband matters more to the fans than the players. Leaders are going to lead no matter who wears the armband. Valencia was our captain for a while and barely spoke English
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I think the issue comes more when the captain clashes with non captained leaders. It sounds like that's happened this season with Maguire.

It doesn't matter that much but the wrong appointment can matter a lot in my opinion.

We just need someone that sets the standard rather than having the mentality of excuses and a chip on the shoulder.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
The captains post-SAF has ruined the legacy of that role. I mean look at the ones during SAF's reign compared to those that followed:

Moyes: Inherited Vidic as captain but ended up leaving halfway through the season. Appointed a heavily declined and wantaway Rooney

LvG: Kept Rooney as captain who was a shadow of his former self and made his famous "my captain shall always play" quote which meant we were stuck with him on the pitch.

Mourinho: finally got rid of Rooney but proceeded to appoint quiet-man and okayish winger turned full back Valencia who barely could speak a word of English. Then went for average winger turned makeshift LB Young who never really struck us as a leader on the pitch.

Ole: Less is said the better. Weird to appoint a newly-signed player without any pedigree for the role. Decision has been made worse by the fact the has never acted as the leader on and off the pitch even during his decent seasons.

So might aswell appoint McTominay for all I care.
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Neither Mourinho, nor LVG had better options for the captaincy. I actually think Valencia wasn't a bad captain in comparison to the our other captains post SAF.

Giving Maguire the armband just after signing him was an awful decision though.
 
Honestly we are so devoid of any leaders in the entire squad it’s fecking embarrassing, if we were to sign Rice then I’d say also give him the armband as he’s an actual on pitch leader but the problem there is signing him with West Ham wanting silly money and we could bring in Tchouameni and Kamara for probably half of what Rice would cost.

I get people saying Ronaldo but much like Fernandes he’s too individualistic to be captain and is also wrongly or rightly at times more bothered about how he’s perceived as opposed to the team, what I do know and think everyone will agree on though is that it can NOT be Maguire continuing as captain no matter what.
 
JB7 said:
So you'd want a mute and a sicknote to be captain before Bruno? Great. Agree on Ronaldo btw.
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How is DDG a mute? He’s always shouting at his defence, plus you can lead by example.

Varane isnt always a sicknote and i’d like to think new management and training would aid RV with his injuries.

I also don’t want Brunos Sulking, diving and bitching and general shithousery to be the example to set for younger players.

Ultimately, Ronaldo over all so far.
 
I actually wouldn't mind seeing it on fred for the simple fact that he always puts a shift in.
But he doesn't really look like the leader type to me , too nice.
Ronaldo is a good shout and deserves it but he may be to self absorbed at times , de gea to deserves it but is maybe too soft?
One thing for certain is that it mustn't remain on Harry's arm.
 
Abolish it. It's caused more issues than solved in recent years.
 
Bruno will be a regular under Ten Hag IMO. Very little doubt about that. His output and his work ethic means every manager would try to get him to fit into his system, and Bruno isn't the type of guy who would ignore instructions. A more confident Bruno will also make fewer mistakes IMO. So I'd give it to Bruno 100%. If Ronaldo stays, maybe him though.

Harry, no chance. I think he's a decent enough CB if he got some confidence back, but he crumbles under the pressure of being a captain for sure. I think he'll be a starter for Ten Hag too, at least get the chance to improve his defensive concentration, but he's just not captain material.
 
Unless we actually get rid of Maguire, would it be wise to change the captaincy? Might create more noise than positive effect, and in the end, leadership is not only defined by who's captain.
 
Bruno will be a shit captain. Mentally wise he's not fit for it. Will just irritate his teammates rather than calming them in tough situations.
 
Keefy18 said:
Bruno is not captain material.

Throwing a hissy fit and rolling around does not equate to leadership. It's immature and shows weakness.
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I'm not saying he necessarily is, however he is certainly more captaincy material than De Gea or Varane in that list of 4 players.

De Gea is a mute on the field, he's in a position where communication is critical and he just doesn't do it and never has. Regardless of that, the other major clear flaws in his game mean he should be moved on from as soon as possible, as such we certainly shouldn't be making him captain.

Varane is a good player, calm on the field and does communicate well. However he's missed as many games as he's played. That's not captaincy material unfortunately.

Ultimately there is a reason Maguire has kept the armband whether we like it or not. Other than Ronaldo, of the players who are nearly always available, he's the best talker and organiser on the pitch. Now I appreciate that it would appear he doesn't have the respect of some of his teammates at this point, which I think is more of an indictment of the other players than the captain, and I can see all the reasons why people say it shouldn't be Maguire due to his dreadful form. But I can see why he's still got the armband and it's not because he's brilliant, it's because there aren't any other examples really - the main two; Ronaldo and Fernandes both have question marks over them for different reasons, Ronaldo with potentially wanting to leave in the summer and Fernandes due to his petulant nature when things don't go his way. If Ronaldo is here next season, he's the obvious choice, if he's not then it's Maguire or Fernandes.

AngliaRed said:
How is DDG a mute? He’s always shouting at his defence, plus you can lead by example.

Varane isnt always a sicknote and i’d like to think new management and training would aid RV with his injuries.

I also don’t want Brunos Sulking, diving and bitching and general shithousery to be the example to set for younger players.

Ultimately, Ronaldo over all so far.
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I stand behind him every week and he never talks to his defenders. He occasionally throws his arms around a shouts a bit when someone - half the time himself - has made an error but that doesn't constitute communicating with his defence. Communication from the goalkeeper is critical in and out of possession as the goalkeeper can see the full pitch with the best view, watch half the goalkeepers in the league and they are constantly talking to their player and helping them, De Gea has never done that in all his years at the club. His communication is horrendous by normal goalkeeper standards, let alone captaincy standards. And if you want to talk about leading by example then is it really an example to, instead of working on flaws in your game, just completely ignoring them so badly that you are the worst in the league at critical aspects of your game? He's not a captain, never has been and never will be. I hope you are right about Varane, but at this stage it wouldn't be massively different to when we gave it Maguire as he's played a similar number of games for us to when it was handed to Maguire, probably less.
 
Ronaldo is the only one with the personality for me. But it shouldn't mean that he starts every game. Klopp manages the situation quite well with Milner, I would like to see something similar.

Maybe De Gea or Bruno as vice when playing. It solves the Maguire conundrum without heaping the pressure on someone unable to deal with it. Also, I think giving up the captaincy to Ronaldo wouldn't crush Maguire's confidence (if any is left). Can spin it in that way.
 
De Gea. But yes, we lack leaders.

Ronaldo, you're having a laugh. If he's benched one match he probably will go on a strike calling himself a slave.
 
JB7 said:
I'm not saying he necessarily is, however he is certainly more captaincy material than De Gea or Varane in that list of 4 players.

De Gea is a mute on the field, he's in a position where communication is critical and he just doesn't do it and never has. Regardless of that, the other major clear flaws in his game mean he should be moved on from as soon as possible, as such we certainly shouldn't be making him captain.

Varane is a good player, calm on the field and does communicate well. However he's missed as many games as he's played. That's not captaincy material unfortunately.

Ultimately there is a reason Maguire has kept the armband whether we like it or not. Other than Ronaldo, of the players who are nearly always available, he's the best talker and organiser on the pitch. Now I appreciate that it would appear he doesn't have the respect of some of his teammates at this point, which I think is more of an indictment of the other players than the captain, and I can see all the reasons why people say it shouldn't be Maguire due to his dreadful form. But I can see why he's still got the armband and it's not because he's brilliant, it's because there aren't any other examples really - the main two; Ronaldo and Fernandes both have question marks over them for different reasons, Ronaldo with potentially wanting to leave in the summer and Fernandes due to his petulant nature when things don't go his way. If Ronaldo is here next season, he's the obvious choice, if he's not then it's Maguire or Fernandes.


I stand behind him every week and he never talks to his defenders. He occasionally throws his arms around a shouts a bit when someone - half the time himself - has made an error but that doesn't constitute communicating with his defence. Communication from the goalkeeper is critical in and out of possession as the goalkeeper can see the full pitch with the best view, watch half the goalkeepers in the league and they are constantly talking to their player and helping them, De Gea has never done that in all his years at the club. His communication is horrendous by normal goalkeeper standards, let alone captaincy standards. And if you want to talk about leading by example then is it really an example to, instead of working on flaws in your game, just completely ignoring them so badly that you are the worst in the league at critical aspects of your game? He's not a captain, never has been and never will be. I hope you are right about Varane, but at this stage it wouldn't be massively different to when we gave it Maguire as he's played a similar number of games for us to when it was handed to Maguire, probably less.
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I’m not a regular match goer like yourself then so I stand corrected mate. I trust your judgment on DDG.
 
Leftback99 said:
For all the complaining over Maguire being captain, the alternatives are weak.

It's important that any new players we bring in have some kind of character about them. The mentality of this squad is pathetic.
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And there is no better poster boy for that mentality than our current captain, who retweets videos of him spraying fairly routine balls out to the wing, and who gives pathetic interviews prior to the LFC game saying that he hasn't been that bad. I'd honestly have Fred as captain over this fraud.
 
Would have said Bruno but after that nothing to fight for interview he isn't the one.
 
I don't really see anyone in the squad who's going to stay fit it as captain material. Possible shout for Varane but he's been in and out of the team.

It'll have to be one of the new guys.
 
We had a decent leader in the making in Daley Blind, obviously Zlatan, now all we have is Ronaldo and there's nothing more to look for in terms of leadership.

If Matić was a bit younger, he could be decent temporary option.
 
It should be De Gea. I don't care that he doesn't communicate often, he's our most consistent player and longest serving player in the first XI. He's one of the few players who always tries his hardest to keep us in games and performs well most of the time. It's about time we had a captain that could lead by example more so than words. Every player out there should be talking and communicating anyway, let's have a captain that is actually a good player and regularly performs. He's the one handling the press anyway - might as well make it official. He doesn't have silly tantrums either, he's a professional goalkeeper that gets on with his job and does his job very well.

I understand Ronaldo is a more influential leader out there, but you can't have your captain slapping phones out of people's hands after a defeat and throwing his hands in the air when people fail to pass to him.
 
After seeing Ronaldo's reaction not able to accept being subbed off, I don't think he should be one of the candidate as captain in here. Bruno IMO is the best candidate.
 
JB7 said:
I'm not saying he necessarily is, however he is certainly more captaincy material than De Gea or Varane in that list of 4 players.

De Gea is a mute on the field, he's in a position where communication is critical and he just doesn't do it and never has. Regardless of that, the other major clear flaws in his game mean he should be moved on from as soon as possible, as such we certainly shouldn't be making him captain.
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You don't have to be loud to be a great leader.

Sometimes you can lead by your physical actions, leading by example. Is Bruno moaning at the ref, crying, sulking, diving admirable qualities you seek in a leader? Nope.

We don't have leaders at the club anyway, but DDG or Ronaldo is the best we have to choose from.
 
Bruno is the obvious choice. Has the fight and the numbers and performances to back it up. Ok, maybe not so much in performances this season but as whole, there is no contest.
 
The grimmest thing about our current state, is the lack of natural leaders. When you get into analyzing this group, none of them comes across as an easy pick. DDG is no captain, Maguire made Henderson look like Roy Keane the other night and Ronaldo will probably leave. Absolute horrendous group of characters, and unless something drastically changes, we need to buy a captain among the footballing qualities.
 
People saying Varane doesn't play enough to be captain when he has played more often than Fernandinho at Man City.

Not to mention Liverpool who have Jordan Henderson as Captain who isn't really their first name on the the sheet.

The captain has to be be someone the players respect on the pitch and off the pitch and if there is any one that doesn't respect Varane at United then they should not be at United
 
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