Captaincy…

little.triangles said:
Phil Jones is always injured.

Anyway, not saying De Gea would have been the ideal choice but certainly a better one if the choice were between him and Maguire.
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Hindsight is wonderful, I'm pretty sure when Maguire took over as captain it was after Ashley Young left and he basically was the only option, the other possibilites at the time were an out of form De Gea, an injured Pogba, and an out of form and out of the team Matic.

Maguire was basically the best of a bad bunch, he did an ok job aswell until he was undermined by an ageing GOAT with a huge EGO who turned some of the squad against him.

De gea was never a realistic option there probably isn't many worse choices amongst the senior players then and now.
 
Longshanks said:
Hindsight is wonderful, I'm pretty sure when Maguire took over as captain it was after Ashley Young left and he basically was the only option, the other possibilites at the time were an out of form De Gea, an injured Pogba, and an out of form and out of the team Matic.

Maguire was basically the best of a bad bunch, he did an ok job aswell until he was undermined by an ageing GOAT with a huge EGO who turned some of the squad against him.

De gea was never a realistic option there probably isn't many worse choices amongst the senior players then and now.
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I don’t see how Maguire was the only option considering that he was never that good, had never captained a side on his entire life, and was here for less than 6 months. You mention De Gea and Pogba. Then there was the local boy Rashford who had lead us in eliminating PSG less than a year earlier and was going in an excellent form. Martial was playing excellent and was finally looking to become one of the best No. 9 in the continent. We had experienced winner Matic.

Not necessarily saying that they were great options. Just that they were better options than Maguire. I think that unless we are talking for total anomalies (experienced leaders who have lead winning sides), no player should become captain 6 months after joining a club. Especially if that player is nothing special, comes from a much lower-tier club, has never won anything, and has never captained a side before.
 
Revan said:
I don’t see how Maguire was the only option considering that he was never that good, had never captained a side on his entire life, and was here for less than 6 months. You mention De Gea and Pogba. Then there was the local boy Rashford who had lead us in eliminating PSG less than a year earlier and was going in an excellent form. Martial was playing excellent and was finally looking to become one of the best No. 9 in the continent. We had experienced winner Matic.

Not necessarily saying that they were great options. Just that they were better options than Maguire. I think that unless we are talking for total anomalies (experienced leaders who have lead winning sides), no player should become captain 6 months after joining a club. Especially if that player is nothing special, comes from a much lower-tier club, has never won anything, and has never captained a side before.
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This is definitely Hindsight. You do realise that not many players have captained before when they get appointed a captain?

Do you think Henderson and VVD captained before joining Liverpool? They also came from a lower tier club having not achieved anything.

You saying Rashford and Martial as potential captain, you do also realise purple patch doesn't equal being a captain and leader?

Eliminated PSG in a CL = captain?
 
Longshanks said:
Maguire was basically the best of a bad bunch, he did an ok job aswell until he was undermined by an ageing GOAT with a huge EGO who turned some of the squad against him.
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Goodness, is there a thing Ronaldo is not going to be blamed for? Maguire was a bad captain well before he came. He is not vocal, he doesn't even organize the defense nevermind the whole team, and he is a slow turning tanker himself and on the bench right now for a reason.
 
Maguire has been about as successfull as a captain as Rangnick was as a manager for us.
 
romufc said:
This is definitely Hindsight. You do realise that not many players have captained before when they get appointed a captain?

Do you think Henderson and VVD captained before joining Liverpool? They also came from a lower tier club having not achieved anything.

You saying Rashford and Martial as potential captain, you do also realise purple patch doesn't equal being a captain and leader?

Eliminated PSG in a CL = captain?
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I do not know many examples of a player who a) just joined the club, b) came from a much lower tier club, c) has never captained before, d) is not that great, and still became captain. The closest I can think of is William Gallas at Arsenal.

I do not think it is hindsight considering that I was saying the same thing (as was the vast majority of Caf) back then. It was such a bizarre move with or without hindsight.
 
Revan said:
I do not know many examples of a player who a) just joined the club, b) came from a much lower tier club, c) has never captained before, d) is not that great, and still became captain. The closest I can think of is William Gallas at Arsenal.

I do not think it is hindsight considering that I was saying the same thing (as was the vast majority of Caf) back then. It was such a bizarre move with or without hindsight.
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Regardless of how he became captain. The names you mentioned to be captain, the same issue would have happened.

Martial is NOT captain material, Rashford has been terrible for 2 years, Matic has left.

So clearly, anyone who because captain then, would have had the same issues now anyway.
 
romufc said:
This is definitely Hindsight. You do realise that not many players have captained before when they get appointed a captain?

Do you think Henderson and VVD captained before joining Liverpool? They also came from a lower tier club having not achieved anything.

You saying Rashford and Martial as potential captain, you do also realise purple patch doesn't equal being a captain and leader?

Eliminated PSG in a CL = captain?
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Honestly...hindsight doesnt matter. The main thing is maguire is no longer a suitable captain now. His performances and interviews dont command the respect of his peers and this isnt a small slump. He hasnt played well for years now....lets just move on. We have better captain candidates in the squad.
 
Mwooyo said:
Honestly...hindsight doesnt matter. The main thing is maguire is no longer a suitable captain now. His performances and interviews dont command the respect of his peers and this isnt a small slump. He hasnt played well for years now....lets just move on. We have better captain candidates in the squad.
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Who are the better candidates? Are you basing it on 3/4 semi decent games we have had?

I mean half the caf wants Bruno dropped and he is stand in captain atm.
Majority of the caf also think DDG needs to be replaced, who is another one who is on the captaincy list.
 
At the time Maguire was appointed captain, we had not much to choose from. I can sort of see Ole's reasons for making him captain but I did worry that it was too soon and it's proved to be a bad decision.

He'd barely just been signed and I had zero knowledge of him but over time it's become more apparent he's not of the sort to be captain of Manchester United. Most of Fergie's United players were their own biggest critics while Maguire seems to make excuses for himself for his poor performances. I think Ole and his staff misjudged Maguire's character.
 
romufc said:
Who are the better candidates? Are you basing it on 3/4 semi decent games we have had?

I mean half the caf wants Bruno dropped and he is stand in captain atm.
Majority of the caf also think DDG needs to be replaced, who is another one who is on the captaincy list.
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Maguire is the worst captain I have ever seen in the United shirt. De Gea would make a better captain, despite being the silent type.
 
Lyng said:
Maguire is the worst captain I have ever seen in the United shirt. De Gea would make a better captain, despite being the silent type.
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Yes, this is why Ten Hag has opted for Bruno to captain when Maguire isn't playing ?
 
Maguire's stint as captain has made me look back on the likes of Valencia and Young as captain in similar vein as I do with Steve Bruce and Neville in comparison.

Comfortably the worst skipper we've ever had.
 
romufc said:
Yes, this is why Ten Hag has opted for Bruno to captain when Maguire isn't playing ?
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And I think Bruno is doing quite well. I was worried about Bruno's antics, but it seems he has toned those down after getting the band.
He seems to has risen to the challenge. Pretty much the opposite of Maguire.
 
Lyng said:
And I think Bruno is doing quite well. I was worried about Bruno's antics, but it seems he has toned those down after getting the band.
He seems to has risen to the challenge. Pretty much the opposite of Maguire.
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I would agree with you, what I am saying is something different.

Yes, everyone wants a new captain, one thing every fan can agree on is that Maguire isnt good enough at both disciplines, captain and player.

What I am trying to say is, its hard to agree on a captain when half the caf wants Bruno out the starting line up.
 
Lyng said:
Maguire has been about as successfull as a captain as Rangnick was as a manager for us.
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Rangnick outing players was enough for me to call him a success. Maguire on the other hand needs to go.

In terms of new Captain; Ericsen, Martinez and then I don't really see many leaders.
 
romufc said:
I would agree with you, what I am saying is something different.

Yes, everyone wants a new captain, one thing every fan can agree on is that Maguire isnt good enough at both disciplines, captain and player.

What I am trying to say is, its hard to agree on a captain when half the caf wants Bruno out the starting line up.
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Ah I see. Yeah you are spot on.
 
There’s a growing contingent calling for Varane to be captain, although I personally believe Fernandes is doing a fairly good job atm.
 
Well I've just started managing us on FM.

Got the preseason out of the way and got to captain choosing time.

Dumped both Harry and Bruno, David captain, Marcus vice.

Harry moaned until I said "it's done, get on with your job".

Come on Eric. Get it done :drool:

Marcus is still running into cul-de-sacs doing his usual however.
 
romufc said:
Who are the better candidates? Are you basing it on 3/4 semi decent games we have had?

I mean half the caf wants Bruno dropped and he is stand in captain atm.
Majority of the caf also think DDG needs to be replaced, who is another one who is on the captaincy list.
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A dropped Bruno is still a better captain than maguire. Just becoz the caf wants him dropped doesnt mean he isnt a better captain. The 2 things are mutually exclusive. Bruno is better, eriksen is better, varane is better, DDG is better...hell even mctominay is better. They speak better, they fight for their team mates better and they dont defend their lousy performances. Maguire doesnt do any of that. Maguire doesn't cover his team mates both on and off the pitch, he doesnt speak up enough and shys away from interviews when things are really bad...overall he just isnt a leader and you can see why he keeps talking about being manutd captain. Its the best thing he has ever achieved...he brings it up all the time even when its not asked. "What happened in greece, why where you arrested"...Maguire: "As a manutd captain...‍♂". "Why did England play poorly". "Now that I am manutd captain...." . We needed a winston churchhill as captain last season and what we got was a its-not-my-problem kind of captain in maguire. He is not a good captain...lets replace and move on rather than sticking with a wrong decision just to avoid hindsight jokes
 
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little.triangles said:
Goodness, is there a thing Ronaldo is not going to be blamed for? Maguire was a bad captain well before he came. He is not vocal, he doesn't even organize the defense nevermind the whole team, and he is a slow turning tanker himself and on the bench right now for a reason.
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I believe that Rooney has now been cleared of starting world war one as new evidence has emerged that it was, indeed, along with the Black Death, Ronaldo's doing...
 
Mwooyo said:
A dropped Bruno is still a better captain than maguire. Just becoz the caf wants him dropped doesnt mean he isnt a better captain. The 2 things are mutually exclusive. Bruno is better, eriksen is better, varane is better, DDG is better...hell even mctominay is better. They speak better, they fight for their team mates better and they dont defend their lousy performances. Maguire doesnt do any of that. Maguire doesn't cover his team mates both on and off the pitch, he doesnt speak up enough and shys away from interviews when things are really bad...overall he just isnt a leader and you can see why he keeps talking about being manutd captain. Its the best thing he has ever achieved...he brings it up all the time even when its not asked. "What happened in greece, why where you arrested"...Maguire: "As a manutd captain...‍♂". "Why did England play poorly". "Now that I am manutd captain...." . We needed a winston churchhill as captain last season and what we got was a its-not-my-problem kind of captain in maguire. He is not a good captain...lets replace and move on rather than sticking with a wrong decision just to avoid hindsight jokes
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Well, this is your opinion, when you look back at the Captaincy thread, alot of people didn't want Bruno captain either. Maguire is bad at alot of things but saying Eriksen, DDG, Varane are better captains with 0 proof is actually lousy too.

So for them to prove a player is captain material, you want them to fight with team mates? how many times did Valencia fight with team mates?

I mean even Bruno talks about how much of an achievement being Manutd captain is, in the interview he said the same, where is that energy for him?
 
Make Bruno permanent captain, Verane vice captain. When fit one or both will always play in the big games. The minor cup(s) if neither play, can be an honorary captain out of the players picked.
 
Mwooyo said:
A dropped Bruno is still a better captain than maguire. Just becoz the caf wants him dropped doesnt mean he isnt a better captain. The 2 things are mutually exclusive. Bruno is better, eriksen is better, varane is better, DDG is better...hell even mctominay is better. They speak better, they fight for their team mates better and they dont defend their lousy performances. Maguire doesnt do any of that. Maguire doesn't cover his team mates both on and off the pitch, he doesnt speak up enough and shys away from interviews when things are really bad...overall he just isnt a leader and you can see why he keeps talking about being manutd captain. Its the best thing he has ever achieved...he brings it up all the time even when its not asked. "What happened in greece, why where you arrested"...Maguire: "As a manutd captain...‍♂". "Why did England play poorly". "Now that I am manutd captain...." . We needed a winston churchhill as captain last season and what we got was a its-not-my-problem kind of captain in maguire. He is not a good captain...lets replace and move on rather than sticking with a wrong decision just to avoid hindsight jokes
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I get the impression that a lot of people see a politician as the team captain. But leadership qualities are usually confirmed by the team, not by the fans. What's the use of talking off the field? That's what press secretaries are supposed to do. And assigning credibility based on chatter is a bad idea. Personally, I know people who talk very little, but their credibility is indestructible.
 
romufc said:
Well, this is your opinion, when you look back at the Captaincy thread, alot of people didn't want Bruno captain either. Maguire is bad at alot of things but saying Eriksen, DDG, Varane are better captains with 0 proof is actually lousy too.

So for them to prove a player is captain material, you want them to fight with team mates? how many times did Valencia fight with team mates?

I mean even Bruno talks about how much of an achievement being Manutd captain is, in the interview he said the same, where is that energy for him?
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First of all, I think you are misreading what I posted. Fighting "for" someone is very different to fighting "with" someone. I didnt say they should fight their team mates, thats all you. I spoke about fighting for someone. Secondly fighting for someone doesn't mean going into a fist fight. Its a metaphor for being a leader that others follow. Basically look at someone like roy keane to understand what a good captain should be.

Secondly when you say I have no proof that they can be captains....well the same applies to maguire. He has never been captain before manutd (Bruno has captained sporting before)...but most importantly, now that he has been captain, we can see that he isnt a good choice. We can not be scared to change the captain just because other players have never been captain....and yet the very player who is captain now was never a captain before...and is horrible at being captain now.

Lastly...Bruno talking about it is very different to maguire talking about it. Bruno was asked specifically about it. Maguire brings it up even when not asked explicitly. He goes on and on about it. He never takes responsibility for his mistakes....always glosses over them. Even luke shaw is a better option. Even luke shaw admitted that he deserved to be dropped by ten hag. Maguire never does that. Always talking about the euros and so on....but he ignores the 56 goals his defence shipped last season. Maguire is a horrible captain and it is no surprise that factions rose up in the dressing room on his watch. We need to get rid of him
 
RiderJake said:
I get the impression that a lot of people see a politician as the team captain. But leadership qualities are usually confirmed by the team, not by the fans. What's the use of talking off the field? That's what press secretaries are supposed to do. And assigning credibility based on chatter is a bad idea. Personally, I know people who talk very little, but their credibility is indestructible.
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Indeed, it's nearly impossible for people to know who is the better option from the outside. From the outside you can only really spot problems with any sort of accuracy and even then you won't know if you are in a case of "the best of a bad bunch".
 
Mwooyo said:
First of all, I think you are misreading what I posted. Fighting "for" someone is very different to fighting "with" someone. I didnt say they should fight their team mates, thats all you. I spoke about fighting for someone. Secondly fighting for someone doesn't mean going into a fist fight. Its a metaphor for being a leader that others follow. Basically look at someone like roy keane to understand what a good captain should be.

Secondly when you say I have no proof that they can be captains....well the same applies to maguire. He has never been captain before manutd (Bruno has captained sporting before)...but most importantly, now that he has been captain, we can see that he isnt a good choice. We can not be scared to change the captain just because other players have never been captain....and yet the very player who is captain now was never a captain before...and is horrible at being captain now.

Lastly...Bruno talking about it is very different to maguire talking about it. Bruno was asked specifically about it. Maguire brings it up even when not asked explicitly. He goes on and on about it. He never takes responsibility for his mistakes....always glosses over them. Even luke shaw is a better option. Even luke shaw admitted that he deserved to be dropped by ten hag. Maguire never does that. Always talking about the euros and so on....but he ignores the 56 goals his defence shipped last season. Maguire is a horrible captain and it is no surprise that factions rose up in the dressing room on his watch. We need to get rid of him
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The funny thing about this post is like you having a go at me for defending Maguire. I mean I dont think he should be captain, neither do I think he is a good leader. So I agree with everything you say, I am only putting in a conversation for other captains.

You might think Bruno is a good captain but alot of people feel the way he moans and goes about things, he isnt.

Also, you talk about DDG, Shaw being better options then speak about 56 goals shipped last season, they were part of the defence too.
 
Captaincy really doesn't matter that much in team, not as much as people make it out to. It's an honorary role, but real leaders will lead on the pitch regardless of being the captain or not. And in that sense, I would pick someone who's somewhere central in the team, and respected by all (not just for footballing skills, but also personality etc). I'd see Eriksen as the ideal captain for this season: he's well respected by anyone (also opponents), is well spoken and well mannered, has experience, has a central role on the pitch etc. Even if it's only for one season: in a rebuilding process, you cannot plan too far ahead with these types of things.
 
Keeping in mind that I don't have a strong opinion about who should or shouldn't be the captain because I don't value the armband, I do believe that Bruno is a questionable option. One of the initially widespread footage of him is Bruno screaming and kicking doors in the corridors of the stadium for SCP. While I do think that he could and probably is a dressing room leader, I don't know if it's a good idea to have someone that volatile as your main interaction with officials. If I was a coach and forced to pick a captain it would be someone that is even-tempered and I would encourage the development of a group of leaders not just one player.

At this moment, in theory I would try to encourage Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen and Varane to be the team leaders and give the armband to one of them and ideally not Bruno. Now if Bruno can control himself then I have no issue with him being the official captain.
 
JPRouve said:
Indeed, it's nearly impossible for people to know who is the better option from the outside. From the outside you can only really spot problems with any sort of accuracy and even then you won't know if you are in a case of "the best of a bad bunch".
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Exactly. The city team just voted Gundogan as their captain this summer - from the outside, I would never have had him as the number 1 pick.
 
romufc said:
The funny thing about this post is like you having a go at me for defending Maguire. I mean I dont think he should be captain, neither do I think he is a good leader. So I agree with everything you say, I am only putting in a conversation for other captains.

You might think Bruno is a good captain but alot of people feel the way he moans and goes about things, he isnt.

Also, you talk about DDG, Shaw being better options then speak about 56 goals shipped last season, they were part of the defence too.
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Yes and you show your support in a weird way. Rather than just type this, you began by bashing other options, then misinterpreting the fighting statements as literally starting fights and then when all that failed, you threw in the obvious its your opinion comment (of course its my opinion, I typed it...whose opinion would it be unless I explicitly state it being someone else's opinion). Even in this very post you are having a go at DDG and shaw...without actually understanding why they would be better options. I explained this clearly. Maguire never takes responsibility for his part in that leaky defence. At least DDG and shaw have come out and owned their mistakes. Maguire never does that. They may not be perfect but they are better. This is the same thing for Bruno. Yes he moans but that has no bearing on whether he is a better option for captain than Maguire. Better is not perfect....its just better. Just because those other options have flaws doesn't mean that they are not better. You seem to think that unless we have the perfect option, we shouldn't make the change to better options. I think we should make the change and go with better captain options. It goes without saying that everything on the Caf is opinion
 
The only reason Maguire is captain is because there isn't a clear cut option in the squad, so might as well leave it.

Agree with those that say Bruno as full time captain is kind of .... Meh. Casemiro, Varane, Martinez seem like captain types who are calm, assertive and will be mainstays in the team (once settled), but they haven't been at the club long enough, or are too injury prone
 
Bokito said:
Captaincy really doesn't matter that much in team, not as much as people make it out to. It's an honorary role, but real leaders will lead on the pitch regardless of being the captain or not. And in that sense, I would pick someone who's somewhere central in the team, and respected by all (not just for footballing skills, but also personality etc). I'd see Eriksen as the ideal captain for this season: he's well respected by anyone (also opponents), is well spoken and well mannered, has experience, has a central role on the pitch etc. Even if it's only for one season: in a rebuilding process, you cannot plan too far ahead with these types of things.
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Good shout.
 
bosnian_red said:
The only reason Maguire is captain is because there isn't a clear cut option in the squad, so might as well leave it.

Agree with those that say Bruno as full time captain is kind of .... Meh. Casemiro, Varane, Martinez seem like captain types who are calm, assertive and will be mainstays in the team (once settled), but they haven't been at the club long enough, or are too injury prone
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Varane has been in the team longer than Maguire was when he was named skipper
 
People dont understand how captaincy works. Captaincy is reserved to the player with the best leadership qualities, who is capable of organizing and giving instructions to the players during the game as well as working with the players to address their issues/concerns which they might not share with the manager. The captain is normally ever present in the team. Transfer of captaincy only happens when the player is injured for too long or is leaving. It never happens because of bad performances.

When Valencia and Ashley Young left, Maguire was the only one who had that capability. Matic was equally experienced but he suffered from fitness issues which ruled him out. So Ole and Rangnick were right to allow Maguire to be the captain. Taking the captaincy away just because he was not performing well on the pitch, is a wrong decision that can cause doubts within dressing room.

Currently Maguire is still the captain while Bruno is vice-captain and it will be that way unless Maguire leaves.
 
Rolaholic said:
Varane has been in the team longer than Maguire was when he was named skipper
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Yes but that was an obviously crazy decision by someone who should never have been close to the job as manager. So i wouldn't look at that as an example to follow.
 
OpenIntrovert said:
People dont understand how captaincy works. Captaincy is reserved to the player with the best leadership qualities, who is capable of organizing and giving instructions to the players during the game as well as working with the players to address their issues/concerns which they might not share with the manager. The captain is normally ever present in the team. Transfer of captaincy only happens when the player is injured for too long or is leaving. It never happens because of bad performances.

When Valencia and Ashley Young left, Maguire was the only one who had that capability. Matic was equally experienced but he suffered from fitness issues which ruled him out. So Ole and Rangnick were right to allow Maguire to be the captain. Taking the captaincy away just because he was not performing well on the pitch, is a wrong decision that can cause doubts within dressing room.

Currently Maguire is still the captain while Bruno is vice-captain and it will be that way unless Maguire leaves.
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There's been reports over the last few years that the players have already questioned his captaincy though.

Highly doubt that giving it to a Bruno or Dave/Varane would cause any sort of unrest
 
bosnian_red said:
The only reason Maguire is captain is because there isn't a clear cut option in the squad, so might as well leave it.

Agree with those that say Bruno as full time captain is kind of .... Meh. Casemiro, Varane, Martinez seem like captain types who are calm, assertive and will be mainstays in the team (once settled), but they haven't been at the club long enough, or are too injury prone
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I think players and coach confirmed that they have group of leaders, so who wears the band is not a big deal. Bruno, Ronaldo, Varane, Martinez, Case, Eriksen will be the leaders.
 
roonster09 said:
I think players and coach confirmed that they have group of leaders, so who wears the band is not a big deal. Bruno, Ronaldo, Varane, Martinez, Case, Eriksen will be the leaders.
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Ahh the famous Emery approach..

At one point Chelsea had the captains of England, Germany, Ivory Coast.. with senior authorities figures like Cole , Cech, Lampard etc. it led to a very player-run dressing room. Lots of fights and emotions but it worked because they still had 1 single player as their voice. Having many leaders is fine but you always need a chain of command for things to work properly.
 
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