BVB (Bottlespielverein Borussia Dortmund) watch | You love to see it | Absolute weapons

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That post!! :lol:

And they wonder why we’re laughing now, sat at the top of the league whilst Dortmund are firing managers and still flopping :lol:
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I remember that post! Trainwreck stuff. @OutlawGER seemed so proud of it too

This is around the same time @Zehner posted in the General asking why people were being so mean to the German posters! :)
 
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Lay said:
Alright how many of us are going to the Bayern forum and defending any negative posts about Klopp and Liverpool?
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Not defending Bayern. I just find it weird how supporters of a club that lost the R16 race to a German team is so cocky on behalf of English football - and constantly shitting on the Bundesliga even though they objectively have had the upper hand the last couple of years. Also, calling Dortmund a "Europa League side" when they are in the UCL and you are the ones playing Europa League.

I'm sorry if any of you found my username offensive, I didn't know it was such a big thing. Im also sorry for those who are offended by the fact that someone would dare debating football on a football forum. I'll let you have your echo chamber in peace from now on.
 
Pogvani said:
Not defending Bayern. I just find it weird how supporters of a club that lost the R16 race to a German team is so cocky on behalf of English football - and constantly shitting on the Bundesliga even though they objectively have had the upper hand the last couple of years. Also, calling Dortmund a "Europa League side" when they are in the UCL and you are the ones playing Europa League.

I'm sorry if any of you found my username offensive, I didn't know it was such a big thing. Im also sorry for those who are offended by the fact that someone would dare debating football on a football forum. I'll let you have your echo chamber in peace from now on.
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It's England, the teams are rich, our teams have pride, money and history. Even Spurs won't sell a top player to United. We have teams capable of winning champions leagues or have had teams capable of doing so. United and Liverpool obviously have known histories, but even Chelsea have won the Champions League. City have a team better than any in the world barring Bayern, Arsenal had the invincibles and have gone an entire season unbeaten with stars like Henry, Bergkamp,Vieira playing form them in the not so distant past. Even Spurs have been to the UCL final.

You're harping on about Dortmund like they are anywhere near the size of any of the top 6 clubs. Most of the "support" they get outside of Germany are simply hipsters looking to find something exciting in German football outside of Bayern. Dortmund aren't even a City, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, they're a Spurs. A cocky team that hasn't achieved anything, with average financials, which we all know don't have the sustainability to last very long as a football discussion topic, basically Atletico Madrid after Simeone leaves. Then you have the constant doormats of teams like Bremen, Schalke, Liepzig (now) and the Leverkusen's who only have a chance when Bayern are terrible. For me, these club's are equivalent to Leicester and have the same mindset too. In the same way Leicester lost both Kante and Mahrez to top teams after showing any sign of a challenge, that's how Bayern treats the Bundesliga. There is nothing tactically superior about the terrible defending in the Bundesliga, just a bunch of new generation posers with bad attitudes who would get quickly found out by top teams if they ever had the intestinal fortitude to even attempt leaving their safe havens. Klopp and Guardiola are special managers, don't make the mistake of thinking that any new manager with some similar tactical traits has what it takes. We have seen a bunch of Cruyff, Mourinho and even Pep wannabes in England. It's not arrogance from England, its the simple knowledge that as a league the Premier League is far superior to the Bundesliga.
 
tjb said:
It's England, the teams are rich, our teams have pride, money and history. Even Spurs won't sell a top player to United. We have teams capable of winning champions leagues or have had teams capable of doing so. United and Liverpool obviously have known histories, but even Chelsea have won the Champions League. City have a team better than any in the world barring Bayern, Arsenal had the invincibles and have gone an entire season unbeaten with stars like Henry, Bergkamp,Vieira playing form them in the not so distant past. Even Spurs have been to the UCL final.

You're harping on about Dortmund like they are anywhere near the size of any of the top 6 clubs. Most of the "support" they get outside of Germany are simply hipsters looking to find something exciting in German football outside of Bayern. Dortmund aren't even a City, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, they're a Spurs. A cocky team that hasn't achieved anything, with average financials, which we all know don't have the sustainability to last very long as a football discussion topic, basically Atletico Madrid after Simeone leaves. Then you have the constant doormats of teams like Bremen, Schalke, Liepzig (now) and the Leverkusen's who only have a chance when Bayern are terrible. For me, these club's are equivalent to Leicester and have the same mindset too. In the same way Leicester lost both Kante and Mahrez to top teams after showing any sign of a challenge, that's how Bayern treats the Bundesliga. There is nothing tactically superior about the terrible defending in the Bundesliga, just a bunch of new generation posers with bad attitudes who would get quickly found out by top teams if they ever had the intestinal fortitude to even attempt leaving their safe havens. Klopp and Guardiola are special managers, don't make the mistake of thinking that any new manager with some similar tactical traits has what it takes. We have seen a bunch of Cruyff, Mourinho and even Pep wannabes in England. It's not arrogance from England, its the simple knowledge that as a league the Premier League is far superior to the Bundesliga.
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This is really funny because you don't know that Dortmund have won it do you
 
Cascarino said:
This is really funny because you don't know that Dortmund have won it do you
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If I wanted to talk simply about teams who have won it, i would have talked about Forest and Villa too
 
Pogvani said:
Not defending Bayern. I just find it weird how supporters of a club that lost the R16 race to a German team is so cocky on behalf of English football - and constantly shitting on the Bundesliga even though they objectively have had the upper hand the last couple of years. Also, calling Dortmund a "Europa League side" when they are in the UCL and you are the ones playing Europa League.

I'm sorry if any of you found my username offensive, I didn't know it was such a big thing. Im also sorry for those who are offended by the fact that someone would dare debating football on a football forum. I'll let you have your echo chamber in peace from now on.
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Upper hand at what?
 
I feel sooo sorry for Dortmund and Zorc.

not!! :drool:
 
tjb said:
I know they have. They fluked it it 97
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tjb said:
If I wanted to talk simply about teams who have won it, i would have talked about Forest and Villa too
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Then it's less funny to me.
But I have to ask what is the tottenham reaching the CL final point meant to convey? Dortmund have won the thing, and they were in another CL final relatively recently too.
 
Cascarino said:
Then it's less funny to me.
But I have to ask what is the tottenham reaching the CL final point meant to convey? Dortmund have won the thing, and they were in another CL final relatively recently too.
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Dortmund also had financial issues in the 2000s and basically had to start again. For me, Spurs have more quality than Dortmund and have been better since 2016, they also have more money and a higher chance of sustaining their success. Spurs would also likely finish second in the Bundesliga. Spurs are the least successful, most expendable team of the top 6 and I consider them bigger than Dortmund, yet we have Bundesliga fans coming her to lie about how great their league is.
 
tjb said:
Dortmund also had financial issues in the 2000s and basically had to start again. For me, Spurs have more quality than Dortmund and have been better since 2016, they also have more money and a higher chance of sustaining their success. Spurs would also likely finish second in the Bundesliga. Spurs are the least successful, most expendable team of the top 6 and I consider them bigger than Dortmund, yet we have Bundesliga fans coming her to lie about how great their league is.
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I think when it comes to discussing the size of a club it's somewhat subjective, depending on the metric used by the individual. Tottenham have had a good team these past few years but it's also true that spurs have won less over the last decade than Swansea have. Clubs in the premier league have benefitted from the television money in recent years, it's a lot harder financially to strong arm players away within the league these days, means teams are somewhat more secure in holding on to the players they want to against division rivals. I think there is a good chance that the likes of Kane and Grealish would be playing in Manchester if we were talking about an earlier stage of the premier league.

hellhunter said:
Absolutely. Bayern aside, who else?
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What?
Edit: I'm guessing you're asking which other German clubs have won in Europe, so Hamburger SV. But I don't see what your question has to do with anything
 
Cascarino said:
I think when it comes to discussing the size of a club it's somewhat subjective, depending on the metric used by the individual. Tottenham have had a good team these past few years but it's also true that spurs have won less over the last decade than Swansea have. Clubs in the premier league have benefitted from the television money in recent years, it's a lot harder financially to strong arm players away within the league these days, means teams are somewhat more secure in holding on to the players they want to against division rivals. I think there is a good chance that the likes of Kane and Grealish would be playing in Manchester if we were talking about an earlier stage of the premier league.



What?
Edit: I'm guessing you're asking which other German clubs have won in Europe, so Hamburger SV. But I don't see what your question has to do with anything
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I see size as a mixture of things. The biggest determinant is fanbase, as at the end of the day, the fans are the ones the game is played for. As a club, the top priority should be to attain as many fans as possible. Fans also allow for financial growth, with matchday revenues and club merchandise which also increases the value of the club. After fans, the financial strength of a club then comes into question. How much can they afford to spend on training facilities, players, coaching staff. How much can they afford to pay their players and manager etc. Finally, the history of the club in terms of achievements should also be taken into account. One big thing that also needs to be factored is the significance of the team to the league. The Premier League is massive and due to the high level of global viewership, it has managed to generally attain more finances and fans than any other league. It would be slightly unfair to call Everton bigger than Dortmund simply because they have more money and fans currently. So we also have to take significance to the league as an added metric when comparing club size. For example, take Juve, Inter or Milan out of Serie A and the level of viewership of the league would drop significantly ( something which we already saw in the Calciopoli scandal). In England, United, Arsenal and Liverpool are those significant teams, followed by Chelsea, City and Spurs. Despite being the second largest team in Germany, Dortmund aren't as significant to the Bundesliga as United, Arsenal or Liverpool ( As shown by their fall in the 2000s and the relatively slight financial impact it had on the league). Chelsea, City and Spurs also generate more money (assumed) relatively to the Premier League than Dortmund does to the Bundesliga. Similarly in Europe, more headlines, news and discussion are had over one of those 6 dropping out of Europe than Dortmund.
 
tjb said:
It's England, the teams are rich, our teams have pride, money and history. Even Spurs won't sell a top player to United. We have teams capable of winning champions leagues or have had teams capable of doing so. United and Liverpool obviously have known histories, but even Chelsea have won the Champions League. City have a team better than any in the world barring Bayern, Arsenal had the invincibles and have gone an entire season unbeaten with stars like Henry, Bergkamp,Vieira playing form them in the not so distant past. Even Spurs have been to the UCL final.

You're harping on about Dortmund like they are anywhere near the size of any of the top 6 clubs. Most of the "support" they get outside of Germany are simply hipsters looking to find something exciting in German football outside of Bayern. Dortmund aren't even a City, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, they're a Spurs. A cocky team that hasn't achieved anything, with average financials, which we all know don't have the sustainability to last very long as a football discussion topic, basically Atletico Madrid after Simeone leaves. Then you have the constant doormats of teams like Bremen, Schalke, Liepzig (now) and the Leverkusen's who only have a chance when Bayern are terrible. For me, these club's are equivalent to Leicester and have the same mindset too. In the same way Leicester lost both Kante and Mahrez to top teams after showing any sign of a challenge, that's how Bayern treats the Bundesliga. There is nothing tactically superior about the terrible defending in the Bundesliga, just a bunch of new generation posers with bad attitudes who would get quickly found out by top teams if they ever had the intestinal fortitude to even attempt leaving their safe havens. Klopp and Guardiola are special managers, don't make the mistake of thinking that any new manager with some similar tactical traits has what it takes. We have seen a bunch of Cruyff, Mourinho and even Pep wannabes in England. It's not arrogance from England, its the simple knowledge that as a league the Premier League is far superior to the Bundesliga.
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Don't compare Dortmund to Spurs. We already have the H2H data to know how that one goes.

Last 4 meetings in CL:
3-0 Spurs (18/19)
1-0 Spurs (18/19)
3-1 Spurs (17/18)
2-1 Spurs (17/18)

(Interesting fact: Kane's only played them three times and has scored winning goals in every one of those games for a total of four -- all excellent)

But I agree with your overall point. Bundesliga fans often use Bayern as a rhetorical battering ram to demonstrate the quality of the league as a whole (esp. Bayern's H2H history against English teams). The reality is that any team apart from Bayern would struggle against any of the PL big six on any given day. That hardly suggests a well-balanced, competitive top tier league.
 
Does anyone else watch Dortmund and wonder how well Haaland would do in another league? It always seems like he has so much time and space for his goals. Watching that reminds me a little bit of Kane's breakout season where nobody was defending him properly yet and he went on a comparable goal-a-game tear (close to it anyway). Haaland's clearly an excellent finisher and player, but I don't think he'd maintain the same ratio in, say, the PL. And all available data points in terms of recent transfers into the PL do nothing to dissuade me.
 
How are people saying Spurs are bigger than Dortmund? BVB have more league titles and have lifted the CL( we should know this since they went through us). Spurs last won the league in B&W, as Arsenal fans say. I don't have love for them, but to say that spurs have more 'prestige' than them is ridiculous.
Saying that, I would love to pick Sancho off of them for half of the reported price. Would be very good after all their posturing in the summer.
 
Threesus said:
How are people saying Spurs are bigger than Dortmund? BVB have more league titles and have lifted the CL( we should know this since they went through us). Spurs last won the league in B&W, as Arsenal fans say. I don't have love for them, but to say that spurs have more 'prestige' than them is ridiculous.
Saying that, I would love to pick Sancho off of them for half of the reported price. Would be very good after all their posturing in the summer.
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Who is saying that Spurs are more prestigious? I didn't notice that. My post and another person's post addressed the fact that Dortmund probably aren't as good as Spurs in recent years (and all substantive evidence agrees), but they've got prestige, sure.
 
1966 said:
Does anyone else watch Dortmund and wonder how well Haaland would do in another league? It always seems like he has so much time and space for his goals. Watching that reminds me a little bit of Kane's breakout season where nobody was defending him properly yet and he went on a comparable goal-a-game tear (close to it anyway). Haaland's clearly an excellent finisher and player, but I don't think he'd maintain the same ratio in, say, the PL. And all available data points in terms of recent transfers into the PL do nothing to dissuade me.
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i saw a lot of his goals are based on running in behind across a horizontal defense line. Probably in Bundesliga, many teams like to use the offside trap as the defense tactic. In EPL, the teams defending with low block won’t give you the space to run behind because they protect and cover each other by forming the triangles in the box.
 
Bayern aka "Bundesliga" fans are ridiculously arrogant, that's for sure.
 
Pep's Suit said:
Bayern aka "Bundesliga" fans are ridiculously arrogant, that's for sure.
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They were just telling you the truth - that Sancho won't be sold (last summer).

But some of you guys start crying like little babies and won't listen and think it's just a... provocation?! How dare a feeder club like BVB (which has had a much better team for almost a decade while spending much less money) to not sell one of their best players to almighty and holy United?

And now - after almost 10 years of beeing behind - they act like the worst 'winners' (the season is long to go) you could imagine with their bitterness and arrogance. :lol:
 
OutlawGER said:
They were just telling you the truth - that Sancho won't be sold (last summer).

But some of you guys start crying like little babies and won't listen and think it's just a... provocation?! How dare a feeder club like BVB (which has had a much better team for almost a decade while spending much less money) to not sell one of their best players to almighty and holy United?

And now - after almost 10 years of beeing behind - they act like the worst 'winners' (the season is long to go) you could imagine with their bitterness and arrogance. :lol:
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:lol: Clueless
 
Someone isn't happy people laughed at his silly post in the Sancho thread.
 
OutlawGER said:
They were just telling you the truth - that Sancho won't be sold (last summer).

But some of you guys start crying like little babies and won't listen and think it's just a... provocation?! How dare a feeder club like BVB (which has had a much better team for almost a decade while spending much less money) to not sell one of their best players to almighty and holy United?

And now - after almost 10 years of beeing behind - they act like the worst 'winners' (the season is long to go) you could imagine with their bitterness and arrogance. :lol:
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Well if a decade is still what I think it is then we have won two league titles, fa, efl and Europa cups, we even managed to make it to a champions league final within that time frame. For a club with a much better team in the past decade they've done very little with it even in the tin pot league they compete in.
 
Becks00 said:
Well if a decade is still what I think it is then we have won two league titles, fa, efl and Europa cups, we even managed to make it to a champions league final within that time frame. For a club with a much better team in the past decade they've done very little with it even in the tin pot league they compete in.
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Yeah, they've had an superior opponent in the league since 2013, not comparable to Leiceister for example, while BPL teams were hardly reaching quarter finals in UCL for quiet some time.

Maybe you should compare BVB's and United's CL records since Fergie left. Well, if there even is much to compare.
 
OutlawGER said:
Yeah, they've had an superior opponent in the league since 2013, not comparable to Leiceister for example, while BPL teams were hardly reaching quarter finals in UCL for quiet some time.

Maybe you should compare BVB's and United's CL records since Fergie left. Well, if there even is much to compare.
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Do you really support two teams in the same league?
 
I'm different with Dortmund.

I generally enjoy watching them play and like many of their signings so surely people criticising them who don't care about who Sancho signs for next might want them to push on more and actually challenge properly for the title sooner or later?

I get Bayern are good and all that but Bayern were also good in 2010 nearly winning the treble that season. Didn't stop Dortmund winning the league the next season or 11/12 when Bayern obviously should've won the champions league but a bit of black magic denied them.

They got very close in 18/19 finishing 2 points off and given Bayern were comfortably disposed by Liverpool in round of 16 last season looked a really good chance...13 points off last season and going to be probably bigger gap this season unless they go on mass winning run.

I want them to sign some players that stop them drawing 3-3 at home to Paderborn and 2-2 v Mainz which are always results that cost them season in season out. Bayern also have trouble v some of these teams but they still remember to win then.

Means getting in a really good experienced keeper and a top class CB (could see logic of Hummels coming back but he's just not that good anymore).

When you look at their CL record aswell they've lost in the knockouts since 2017 to Monaco, Spurs and PSG so not like the very best in europe have been knocking them out in last 15.

I just think could do a bit better if they need some more strategic short term signings in key areas.
 
1571642423294876_1024x1024@2x.jpg
 
OutlawGER said:
Yeah, they've had an superior opponent in the league since 2013, not comparable to Leiceister for example, while BPL teams were hardly reaching quarter finals in UCL for quiet some time.

Maybe you should compare BVB's and United's CL records since Fergie left. Well, if there even is much to compare.
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I’ll bite.
2019/20 Dortmund round of 16 United didn’t qualify, Europa league semi final
2018/19 Dortmund round of 16 United QF
2017/18 dortmund group stage United round of 16
2016/17 Dortmund QF United didn’t qualify Europa league winner

Covers the coefficient rankings period. Not sure if relevant, but Dortmund UEFA coefficient ranking is currently showing as 12th, whilst United are 9th. I’m not going to pretend to know or care how these are calculated but I’m assuming it’s based on performances in Europe. So Dortmund haven’t exactly been great in Europe of late.
 
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OutlawGER said:
Yeah, they've had an superior opponent in the league since 2013, not comparable to Leiceister for example, while BPL teams were hardly reaching quarter finals in UCL for quiet some time.

Maybe you should compare BVB's and United's CL records since Fergie left. Well, if there even is much to compare.
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You did mention 10 years not me. Fact is over the past decade we've been largely underwhelming and been no where near the best teams in England and still have achieved no less than the 2nd best German team during that time frame, that says it all about your league really
 
Stevondo8 said:
I’ll bite.
2019/20 Dortmund round of 16 United didn’t qualify, Europa league semi final
2018/19 Dortmund round of 16 United QF
2017/18 dortmund group stage United round of 16
2016/17 Dortmund QF United didn’t qualify Europa league winner

Covers the coefficient rankings period. Not sure if relevant, but Dortmund UEFA coefficient ranking is currently showing as 12th, whilst United are 9th. I’m not going to pretend to know or care how these are calculated but I’m assuming it’s based on performances in Europe. So Dortmund haven’t exactly been great in Europe of late.
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Why are you dismissing the years before? Seems convenient. :p
 
Becks00 said:
You did mention 10 years not me. Fact is over the past decade we've been largely underwhelming and been no where near the best teams in England and still have achieved no less than the 2nd best German team during that time frame, that says it all about your league really
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He is just a troll.
 
OutlawGER said:
Yeah, they've had an superior opponent in the league since 2013, not comparable to Leiceister for example, while BPL teams were hardly reaching quarter finals in UCL for quiet some time.

Maybe you should compare BVB's and United's CL records since Fergie left. Well, if there even is much to compare.
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We have reached the QFs twice since Fergie left.
Dortmund only twice as well.

Not exactly much to shout about in the CL for either team in that time.
 
OutlawGER said:
Why are you dismissing the years before? Seems convenient. :p
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If the concept is about whether a team is strong or weak compared to another to buy a player right now (last summer) then the most recent years make more sense to compare, no?

If not one might as well say well then why are you discounting the 20 years before that again? Seems awfully convenient?
 
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