The first part might well be. There are several posts on this page mentioning how the signing of talented young players has dried up in recent years. Is that because they’ve suddenly forgotten how to scout, or is it that the biggest young talents are thinking “if I go there they might make it difficult for me to move to a big club”?
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- Thread starter Samid
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The first part might well be. There are several posts on this page mentioning how the signing of talented young players has dried up in recent years. Is that because they’ve suddenly forgotten how to scout, or is it that the biggest young talents are thinking “if I go there they might make it difficult for me to move to a big club”?
They officially communicated that they want to sign more established players to become more consistent and be able to actually win something.
It just happened
Not my fault that Dortmund effectively is fan owned. Some big sponsors own a few percent of the shares but most is distributed along their fans and besides that the club (which consists of the fans/members) controls the team anyway in accordance to 50+1 rules. So instead of mentioning "fans and owner" it could just be shortened to "fans"
Yep!
The truce was short lived
The CEO and the board shall I say have limited ambition which is also the fan sentiment. I mean it works for them, not every club wants to win.
I look forward to the next truce we will have, whenever and wherever that will happenThe truce was short lived
I don't know any Dortmund fans, but I can't imagine that they're particularly pleased getting a wildcard entry into the CL, while Leverkusen have an invincible season and Stuttgart finish second, the former of which finished 6th the season before, and the latter was almost relegated, neither of which had finished above Dortmund in the league since Klopp's last season.
I would guess it is the same PR agency running their account that does a lot of different football accounts. United fans simply notice it more in regards to Dortmund because of Sancho, Kagawa et al.
There were a few here during the Sancho conversations and they were pretty happy with getting CL and being Bayern's bridesmaid.
They were content with clubs ambitions and I guess reaching the CL final last season was good enough for them for the next few years.
I think it is far more difficult to find undiscovered talents these days than it used to be 10 to 20 years ago thanks to big data, social media, etc.
They usually have very good youth teams but in recent times, they simply didn't turn out good enough for a top 4 club in Germany. But their academy is definitely much better than ours (I think the last youth player who became a starter was Havertz and before him Henrichs) and until last season Bayern's as well. They had a real drought of youth players coming through until Pavlovic and Wanner stepped up very recently.
I think it's one thing to be content with finishing second behind a juggernaut like Bayern. They finished 5th last season and only qualified for the CL because of the wildcard spot.
They're currently 7th and have just been battered in thr CL.
I dont think Dortmunds scouting got worse, I think they changed their approach a bit because they finally wanted to win the league again.
Since the Klopp days they mostly still played entertaining football, had incredible talents like Dembele, Sancho, Haaland, Bellingham, etc but they almost always failed when it mattered.
After every big loss the pundits brought up the "Mentalitätsfrage" and said the team is too young and too inexperienced.
Thats why they bought less promising talents imo.
Since the Klopp days they mostly still played entertaining football, had incredible talents like Dembele, Sancho, Haaland, Bellingham, etc but they almost always failed when it mattered.
After every big loss the pundits brought up the "Mentalitätsfrage" and said the team is too young and too inexperienced.
Thats why they bought less promising talents imo.
True. But they got it horribly wrong. The last thing Dortmund won was the DFB Pokal. Which players stood out in that campaign the most? Sancho, Haaland, Bellingham.
When they got close to win the league 2023 they bottled it in the final match. Who was missing due to injury? Bellingham. I am quite sure they would have won that if he had been available.
Consistency is an issue with young players, but instead of weeding out the mediocrity and mental weakness like it is personified by someone like Brandt, they filled their squad with more players of that kind.
I don't think that you can still really "discover" any great talent at teenage nowadays, at least not in Europe.
It's more about convinzing them to join you and that is something that Dortmund is (or was?) known for.
Leipzig is a also big problem for them I think, because they are often interested in the same type of players.
Players like Sesko, Szoboszlai, Olmo or Xavi (on loan) would have written "Dortmund" all over them a few years ago.
I think Salzburg's downward development is a big contributor to this issue. Before there was a clear conveyor belt Liefering -> Salzburg -> Leipzig in the Red Bull organisation, so that Leipzig didn't have to act much in the "free market". But as that has mostly stopped because the guys in Austria somehow turned to shit recently Leipzig is more acting like any other club and suddenly is interested in the same players Dortmund is.
Share price/stock market value has gone nowhere (-25% over the last decade) so ownership have lost out as well as fans.
Yep, its difficult now to find the gems, however the club model they have should be able to pull those talents as they can help a players development the right way. Get to play CL football and league matches with no pressure. Not many clubs get can say they will regularly get CL and have 0 pressure.
What about Wirtz? was he not a youth product too?
We signed him as a 16 or 17 year old from Köln for the first team straight-away. Not too different from Bellingham, Sancho, Musiala, Davies, Kroos, etc
I mean, I dont think they care, they would probably have a better chance of getting further in the EL on a regular.
On a separate note I really wasn't expecting Guirassy to step up as well as he has - 7 in his first 8 - though I know the Bundesliga is known for producing high-scoring strikers who struggle to replicate the same numbers elsewhere.
Slippery slope and asking to be overtaken by even more teams.
Wirtz is a youth product from Cologne. Leverkusen used to have an agreement with them, that both clubs wouldn’t attempt to „steal“ talented youth players from another, which Leverkusen basically threw out of the window to get Wirtz.
The fans are the owners (>60% free float). In this respect, they are affected twice: modest sporting success and also not financially interesting. But the IPO was more of a chance for the fans to finance the club anyway. The intention to make a profit was secondary at best. Remember that Dortmund almost went bankrupt 20 years ago.
We gave him a senior contract so technically, we didn't break that agreement
Didn't he score 30 goals in 30 games in the same league last year?
Yep, he is a very good striker.
Like whom. If anything, Bundesliga hardly produces any high-scoring strikers.
More "bigger" clubs are now shopping in the Dortmund market. All those Chelsea players are the typical Dortmund market while paying significantly more, So they are now going for the 3rd tier players
And God knows there's a lot of those
Dortmund’s transfer success was in part dependant upon no bigger clubs, therefore offering bigger wages, replicating the playing time on offer for younger players. As mentioned, Chelsea have done that. Also it was hugely assisted by the dysfunctional transfer policies of Barcelona and Utd. They should get a nice one off boost from the Club World Cup this summer should it occur. Ultimately, the overseas broadcast revenues of the Bundesliga are so low that BVB and RB will remain feeder clubs for the EPL, top 2 in Spain, PSG as well as Bayern. Fair play to Leverkusen as they will have been the exception to the rule for 1-2 seasons.