You find it weird because you don't take into account the fact that Monaco help themselves, not PSG. They have their own FFP problems to deal with.
Bundesliga 2017/18
- Thread starter uamini
- Start date
You find it weird because you don't take into account the fact that Monaco help themselves, not PSG. They have their own FFP problems to deal with.
I'm not denying those dynamics. I just point out that they are not caused by us, and are not ours to change.
Instead of buying de Bruyne, we brought in Vidal. What a mighty difference that made for Wolfsburg! Don’t you see how silly that is?
Other Bundesliga clubs constantly do buy players from emerging rivals, on a much greater scale than we ever did. Its just that at the same time, everyone seems to be inept at giving players proper contracts, Schalke being the worst offender.
And no, these dynamics aren’t obvious, they are non-existent. No player gives a shit about Dortmund’s chances against us to win the league, they care about money and international exposure in European competitions.
But football has never been fair, clubs aren't equal, cities aren't equal, they don't have the same commercial pull and therefore they don't have the same financial potential. The only way to close the gap with Bayern is to find a way to be commercially attractive, in order to finance wages, you will also need to have cheap players most likely through youth football, these two things are near impossible, that's why most new "big" clubs are the likes of City and PSG.
The funny thing of course is, that the club and city with the highest commercial potential after Bayern happens to be HSV, who've been needlessly ruining themselves for a whole decade now, through sheer continued mismanagement.
Why aren't they? The detoriating quality of the league is probably the one thing that holds you back the most in the CL. People in here keep saying that PSG is simply not battle hardened and the same applies to you. You have a brillant team and I am sure that your management will address the few weaknesses as well as the transition phase (Robben, Ribery) pretty well. But when the league drops in quality, you will drop too. And you may not feel it now but a weaker league will make it harder for you to sign top players, too.
You have much influence and a strong lobby in the DFL. You are the club that gets the most media attention. The devastating state of the Bundesliga should be one of your primary concerns. After all, you keep criticizing the quality as well as the ultradefensive playing style most teams fancy against you. I believe that you could definitely do more.
But instead of doing what you can to address these problems, you sort of amplify them by weakening your competitors through buying their best players (and talking about a European League, but thatÄs a different topic). I understand your argument that you do not buy them for the purpose of weakening these teams but it is a side effect you cannot deny even if it is not intended. The transfers of Lewa, Götze and Hummels are just the three most startling examples since they marked the downfall of a German competitor that even managed to go to the CL final and had acquired a team of blistering quality through brillant management without much financial backup. They really looked like they could finally establish themselves as a counterpart to you in whose shadows other clubs could develop as well. I really believe that this made them interesting for a lot of young players back then - not as a stepping stone but a final destination below the realms of Real and Barcelona. But you kind of killed this dream. It would have not been the same effect if exemplarily Real, United or Barca did it.
You are right, I should have mentioned competency too which is apparently rarer than money. It's basically the same story in France, where Marseille should be a lot stronger than they are and should be closer to a doped PSG.
I don't care. Get your own shit together. We will not let you win to make the league seem more competitive.
Not the same thing.
For woflsburg it did not but for bayern it did, which was my point. Anyways, discussion is done, we will be going in circles if we continue.
How is it weakening the Bundesliga then. They had no chance to compete either way. For us, it only meant something internationally, if at all
Dortmund's decline has not been caused by losing Lewy, Götze or Hummels. Financially Dortmund is far better off today than they have been years before. Their decline has been caused by tactical problems and squad management. They have had every chance to establish themselves as the clear number two in the recent years - but they failed in that. That you cannot be the competitor to Bayern just because of two title wins when you are still deep in the debt is understandable. To close that gap would have taken some years - Bayern did not grow that big overnight either. But they weren't much better (and in some years worse) than the others that they should have kept in distance behind them.
Dortmund has never found the way from a team based on counter tactics to a team that is comfortable with the ball. Tuchel has made a big progress with that - but at the same time that did not match to the abilities of some of the established players.
Not confident you'd win against Dortmund, no offense. Away at Dortmund it surely would be ending up a 0-0.Give the points to us, we need it. feck city.
With mourinho in charge? Definitely.
This pretty much translates to: "You know how easy it is to be well run club when you're a well run club?"
I'd be great at football if I wasn't so shit at it. Now let me find a way to blame someone else for that... It's gotta be the better players' fault!
Thomas Müller gave the best answer to all this. Asked about the Bundesliga and whether he's worried that it's become boring, he said (not verbatim): "Well, I signed a contract that says pretty much that it's my job to make the league as boring as possible." That logic applies to all players and clubs.
Last edited:
Which Bayern can do because they have - a money printing machine in the basement? competent management?
Why don't they. All those not-free transfers out must have brought some money in, no?
Tuchels exit started when he demanded men to replace Kehl, Weidenfeller etc and got a bunch of schoolboys. There is a long list of players hailed as next big things that came to BVB, played well a short time, never to be heard of again. Durm? Isak? Passlack? Mor? Hofmann? BVB must be the biggest graveyard of football talent currently in the business.
Of course it is hard to have a high hit rate on transfers these days in BVBs position, and you can't expect to always score a Dembele or Auba, but still, mistakes have been made.
Also funny is how all the Bayern-haters deny the fact that the last time Bayern bought out a direct competitior was Werder Bremen ca 25 years ago. Later, there were some pissing-contest transfers like Deisler or Podolski (weakening powerhouses Hertha and Cologne no end). The rest were ordinary transfers - there is a vacant spot in your roster, there is a player who has the quality, knows the league and maybe the language, of course he is preferred over an non-league player. None of the players had a gun to their head they were signing the contract, to my knowledge, either. Maybe even their old managers were realistic about the likelihood of keeping the player much longer and gladly took the money.
Since this is real life and not FM2018, maybe the best players actually hope Bayern would sign them?
Last edited:
Lots of talk about how BVB plans to recover. Management changes (Sammer as outside consultant, Kehl in as team manager or something) are under way. Stöger more or less openly admitted he knows his journey is ending 7/31. Newspapers talk about parting with 8-10 players end of season, no names yet. Obvious candidates - dunno.. Kagawa? Schürrle? Castro? even Götze?
Also i wonder if Stöger openly critisizing several players after the Salzburg EC match caused the team to "play against the coach"?
Also i wonder if Stöger openly critisizing several players after the Salzburg EC match caused the team to "play against the coach"?
People I could see leaving:
The obvious ones:
- Weidenfeller - already announced his retirement
- Durm - if it wasn't for his injury he would've been out the door already
- Toljan - talented lad, but against the ball he always seems to be a step behind mentally
- Sahin - his legs are gone
- Castro - he's a decent squad player, but they want to restructure their midfield and an inconsistent 30yo will be high up that list, might want to sit out his contract though
- Schürrle - he's been one of the better players since the winter break and appears to have a good mentality, but in the end his technique just isn't good enough for the football Dortmund want to play
- Sokratis - a good CB in theory, but he too lacks skills on the ball for the kind of football Dortmund want to play, since he'll turn 30 this summer and his contract is expiring in 2019 this is the last chance for Dortmund to really cash in and I think they will want to use that opportunity.
- Guerreiro - very talented lad, but he's always dealing with injuries, at times he seems uninterested when he doesn't get the ball and there are question marks whether or not he's up to it defensively for the LB position - if the new coach isn't a big fan of his I could see Dortmund trying to cash in before he spends a season as a luxury option.
- Rode - he's more or less the kind of type Dortmund's midfield is lacking, but he's basically been injured for two year straight.
- Weigl - has not impressed me at all with his weak response to Bosz asking him to take more attacking responsibility. He's proven to be quite narrow in his qualities, if the new coach sees his niche in his tactical concept he can be quite valuable again if not it might be best for both sides if he's sold for a good offer.
- Zagadou - he's had a very promising start under Bosz and I don't see any obvious weaknesses in his play aside from being inexperienced, but on the other hand he's only played 90 Minutes since November
- Yarmolenko - again a impressive start but he's faded together with Dortmund's form under Bosz and got injured soon after Stöger took over. Imho he's not quick enough to play as a typical Dortmund "winger" and there are some question marks about his defensive contribution. On the other hand he has great control in tight spaces and link up play (those backheel passes
) which imho could make him really shine in a more central role. So similarly to Weigl his fate might depend on whether or not the new coach envisions a suitable role for him.
Honorary mentions:
Toprak get's a lot of shit but he's mostly been a solid CB who contributes a lot more on the ball than Sokratis (while also being a bit younger), I think he's going to stay as 3rd CB.
Dahoud had a bit of a slow start, but seems to be growing into the Gündogan role quite well lately.
Götze get's a lot of stick, but I think aside from Weigl he's probably the player who suffers most from Stögers tactics (or lack thereof).
Pulisic had a pretty quiet season, I don't think he's on the chopping block, because his talent still shines through, but if someone offers silly money Dortmund might listen.
Kagawa is no world beater, but he's a very reliable player who is a decent cog in the machine on not so good days and a valuable asset on good days. As long as he doesn't demand any guarantees I don't see any reason why Dortmund should sell him.
If BVB sell Guerreiro, some other club will be very, very happy. Top player and it would be rather laughable not to give him a run at the LB spot, when you have Schmelzer and Toljan trying to outdo themselves who can pose the greater liability.
Also, Yarmolenko has been good. Why would they sell him? Favre will get the best out of him.
Also, Yarmolenko has been good. Why would they sell him? Favre will get the best out of him.
Yet even under Tuchel (and Bosz as well) Schmelzer barely missed a minute aside from injuries and Guerreiro was used almost exclusively either as a CM/AM or in a more complex setup with him as as a LWB/LM hybrid and Schmelzer as CB/LB hybrid behind him. Dortmund being somewhat strongly linked with Hector also tells me that they don't trust him as a LB. That's why I think his future is very dependant on the next coach, because Guerreiro seems to need either a back 3/5 setup to play on the wing or a midfield three to play in the center. And some popular formations (4231 for example) have neither.
As for Yarmolenko I can only repeat myself, I think he lacks the pace to hug the sidelines and he's been a defensive liability - if the new coach has a role in the center of half spaces for him where his deficits might be compensated then great, he might actually dominate, but if for example the new guy wants to play a 433 with wide attackers then I could see him take a bench spot by default and given his age you might rather move him on and look for someone who is a better fit.
Haven't watched enough of him to have an opinion this season, but oh how the next worldbeaters have fallen. The last of the "class of 1860" to slumber into oblivion. 2012 we thought the german lineup 2018 would look like Bender/Bender/Leitner/Weigl/Volland
Looked positively awful on Saturday. No speed, no explosiveness, no vision. Never was a fan of him in his Bayern days, either, mind you. Physically growing up fully has not been kind to him Looked to be out of form, too.
Apparently, the silly money was offered in the winter break and they kept him, so i doubt it
Will depend on the size of his paycheck , i recon
According to "kicker" today, interested are... Juve and Mourinho
He's not that bad imo, he'sthe kind of robust, tall, no-nonsense defender everyone associated the EPL, but a "modern" defender he ain't.
The DFB have rescinded one of Nils Petersen's yellow cards given to him last week v Schalke and have therefore nullified his red card and suspension.
That fool of a ref, Stieler, literally decided the outcome by handing Schalke a penalty, a sending off and three points on a plate.
Stieler has taken charge of more Bundessliga matches than any other ref this season.
16 matches, and in those matches there have been 5 sendings off with 3 straight reds.
@Cristiano Lell
Some new stuff regarding Guerreiro:
Turns out he has a nother muscle injury and will be out for the rest of the season. RN reported this together with claims that people at the club wonder whether his repeated problems (three seperate muscle injuries since the winter break and two more during last season) may be caused (in part) by a lack of professionalism.
Some new stuff regarding Guerreiro:
Turns out he has a nother muscle injury and will be out for the rest of the season. RN reported this together with claims that people at the club wonder whether his repeated problems (three seperate muscle injuries since the winter break and two more during last season) may be caused (in part) by a lack of professionalism.
Last edited:
Damn. I genuinely love this player and I thought he had so much promise.
But to be honest, Dortmund and the surrounding media landscape seems to me like an inreasingly toxic snake pit these days and I won't trust their verdicts about players. I will wait until Guerreiro had a chance at another club with less problems.
It's true that bad press regarding some players is piling up in recent years around Dortmund, but toxic press is only one explanation for that. The other - that what they write might be true - is at least just as likely. And in Guerreiro's case I don't really see why Dortmund's mouth piece would make something like that up. He's still under contract there, so they aren't just biting Guerreiro, but also the hand that feeds them, the club.
Will he miss the world cup?
Tss, Bayern obviously do not want to be champions. Trailing 0-1 against Augsburg.
Ha, and immediately Tolisso equalises!
Ha, and immediately Tolisso equalises!
And now James! 2-1
He should be fit again for the world cup, whether 60 minutes of playtime since december are enough to make Portugal's squad is another question though.
He's competing for a spot with Eliseu, Coentrão and Mário Rui. He'd start even if he had a broken leg
Cologne's season in a nutshell. Miss an absolute sitter, then concede a 13m header from a midget. Only thing missing is an VAR-annulled winner in stoppage time.
And it's done. 4-1 in the end, and the 28th Meisterschaft on the shelf.
Heynckes doing extra rounds with Ribery and Robben... there's something in my eye suddenly
Three legends, very close to the end of their era.
Three legends, very close to the end of their era.
A deserved title win by Bayern Munich.
Felt at the start of the season that Dortmund would challenge. . . In the end no one was anywhere near them.
Köln have failed to beat Mainz, which surely means relegation now although considering they only had 3 points after 16 matches it has been quite the fightback.
They just gave themselves to much to do in the end.
Felt at the start of the season that Dortmund would challenge. . . In the end no one was anywhere near them.
Köln have failed to beat Mainz, which surely means relegation now although considering they only had 3 points after 16 matches it has been quite the fightback.
They just gave themselves to much to do in the end.
When your only threatening players are the 40yo guy you pulled out of retirement and the guy you signed during the winter break, who was discarded by a newly promoted team then I don't think you have to look far for the reasons for Cologne's demise.
I am suprised they found this lack of professionalism regarding Guerreiro at Dortmund, when he was in France he never had these sort of problems and played during the entire season, does this happen only with him at Dortmund?
Nope, Eliseu isn't part of the equation, Coentrão or Mário Rui, maybe Antunes, but I genuinely don't want a player with this lack of competition and fitness around the team, fed up with so called important players, truth is since the Confederations Cup if he played 1000 minutes probably is optimistic, don't want him in the squad, we need to learn with the lesson from 2014.