Bundesliga 2017/18

[fcbforever]

I really dont get this. Gnabry is developing absolutely nicely and made another step after Olympics 2016. He was carrying Bremen 1st half of last season and is doing the same this season being the best player of Hoffenheim scoring left and right..versatile, fast, can dribble..he really is a joy to watch and it seems Bayern snatched another bargain, who could definitely be useful next season.

Even here, some people obviously can easily find reasons to moan though there are plenty of reasons to be sick of the management, but the purchase of Gnabry is not one of them..quiet the opposite.

What makes me sick is the unbelievable laughable search for a new coach..how Hoeneß is preventing the club moving into the right direction. 1st he prevented Lahm and now we have the clown Salihamidzic, who is unable to express a single sentence without countless of ähh's and ähhh's, nevermind the superficial nonsense he is spouting and if Kovac becomes Bayern coach, then this is as laughable as appointing Salihamidzic as SD. He has proven absolutely nothing playing a typical defensive ugly fight hard and run football total opposite of the possession based football needed.

IF that really happens, then I m not wondering anymore and then I give up. I cannot stand that disgusting hypocrite Hoeneß anymore..he is becoming worse than Berlusconi. He is the only reason Tuchel not coming, cos he intentionally delayed everything. These clowns did not even respond to the agreed deadline 1st of March and were totally surprised, that Tuchel decided not to sit there and wait till the mighty Bayern dare to come back to him, especially after all the comments of Hoeneß with his shameless Heynckes begging plan and his degrative comments about Tuchel..he has become a senile old fool and is the downfall of Bayern.

Just imagine having Pep, Sammer and Reschke to having Salihamidzic and Kovac

Reschke and Sammer did shit all to be honest. Especially Sammer was just...what did he even do other than shitty transfers?

 

[Zehner]

I really dont get this. Gnabry is developing absolutely nicely and made another step after Olympics 2016. He was carrying Bremen 1st half of last season and is doing the same this season being the best player of Hoffenheim scoring left and right..versatile, fast, can dribble..he really is a joy to watch and it seems Bayern snatched another bargain, who could definitely be useful next season.

Even here, some people obviously can easily find reasons to moan though there are plenty of reasons to be sick of the management, but the purchase of Gnabry is not one of them..quiet the opposite.

What makes me sick is the unbelievable laughable search for a new coach..how Hoeneß is preventing the club moving into the right direction. 1st he prevented Lahm and now we have the clown Salihamidzic, who is unable to express a single sentence without countless of ähh's and ähhh's, nevermind the superficial nonsense he is spouting and if Kovac becomes Bayern coach, then this is as laughable as appointing Salihamidzic as SD. He has proven absolutely nothing playing a typical defensive ugly fight hard and run football total opposite of the possession based football needed.

IF that really happens, then I m not wondering anymore and then I give up. I cannot stand that disgusting hypocrite Hoeneß anymore..he is becoming worse than Berlusconi. He is the only reason Tuchel not coming, cos he intentionally delayed everything. These clowns did not even respond to the agreed deadline 1st of March and were totally surprised, that Tuchel decided not to sit there and wait till the mighty Bayern dare to come back to him, especially after all the comments of Hoeneß with his shameless Heynckes begging plan and his degrative comments about Tuchel..he has become a senile old fool and is the downfall of Bayern.

Just imagine having Pep, Sammer and Reschke to having Salihamidzic and Kovac

I think this is spot on. Hoeneß might have been a blessing for Bayern when he took over and turned them into the giant they have been since the 70s but he holds them back for quite a great amount of time now. He refuses to adapt to new developments (he even said he doesn't read E-Mails and thinks smartphones are bad for players) and seems obsessed with the idea of proving anyone that he has still got it and can have success the old school way. And he chooses old companions at his side like Heynckes or Salihamidczic, even if they are as incompetent as the latter. He doesn't accept people who have their own strong opinions and could challenge his powers like Guardiola, van Gaal, Sammer, Tuchel or possibly even Lahm.

I would find it funny because I strongly dislike Bayern but Hoeneß ways also harm the competitiveness of the Bundesliga. It is no wonder that Bayern's CL win occured when Dortmund had its best episode and stole them two titles. They need a competitor because otherwise they aren't "hardened" enough for the latter stages of the CL.
But Hoeneß is not a fan of globalisation. He always wants the best German players to play for Bayern Munich and only if he can't find anyone suiting this profile he will look for internationally accomplished players. If he had his way, I doubt that guys like Thiago or James would have found their way to Munich. It doesn't matter if it is intended or not, but that way he suppresses smaller Bundesliga clubs since they constantly lose their best players and are reminded of their position. I don't think it is a coincidence that the Bundesliga has constantly gotten worse since he came back.

 

[fcbforever]

I think this is spot on. Hoeneß might have been a blessing for Bayern when he took over and turned them into the giant they have been since the 70s but he holds them back for quite a great amount of time now. He refuses to adapt to new developments (he even said he doesn't read E-Mails and thinks smartphones are bad for players) and seems obsessed with the idea of proving anyone that he has still got it and can have success the old school way. And he chooses old companions at his side like Heynckes or Salihamidczic, even if they are as incompetent as the latter. He doesn't accept people who have their own strong opinions and could challenge his powers like Guardiola, van Gaal, Sammer, Tuchel or possibly even Lahm.

I would find it funny because I strongly dislike Bayern but Hoeneß ways also harm the competitiveness of the Bundesliga. It is no wonder that Bayern's CL win occured when Dortmund had its best episode and stole them two titles. They need a competitor because otherwise they aren't "hardened" enough for the latter stages of the CL.
But Hoeneß is not a fan of globalisation. He always wants the best German players to play for Bayern Munich and only if he can't find anyone suiting this profile he will look for internationally accomplished players. If he had his way, I doubt that guys like Thiago or James would have found their way to Munich. It doesn't matter if it is intended or not, but that way he suppresses smaller Bundesliga clubs since they constantly lose their best players and are reminded of their position. I don't think it is a coincidence that the Bundesliga has constantly gotten worse since he came back.

Yeah, all those Bundesliga players we have bought from competitors, it’s terrible, all because of Hoeneß!

 

[Zehner]

Yeah, all those Bundesliga players we have bought from competitors, it’s terrible, all because of Hoeneß!

Don't you think a little more competition would suit you sell and could improve yor chances of winning the CL?

Do you really think it is a coincidence that your CL title occurred during Dortmund's strongest campaigns when they really gave you a run for your money?

 

[do.ob]

How do you guys rate Tedesco? Don't really know much about him but on paper he seems to be doing a stunning job at Schalke.

He doesn't set himself apart from a dozen other coaches in Germany who are good at organizing their defense/pressing and abusing transitions. They are so far up the table at the moment because the other teams are incredibly inconsistent and Schalke just have about everything going their way. Take the matches vs Freiburg for example, who really aren't that good at all this season: in the first match this season nothing happens then some random cross gets deflected into Freiburg's goal. The return match last weekend was again atrocious football, but then Schalke get a soft penalty and Freiburg's captain get's two yellows for complaining without even realizing he got the first card.
The previous match vs Wolfsburg the latter miss a penalty, then the ref shows mercy instead of red carding one of Schalkes defenders and then they win with an own goal.
They could easily get crushed next season, with Goretzka and Meyer possibly leaving on a free transfer and Kehrer + Nastasic having one foot out the door (1 year contract / release clause) and a squad that seems to thin for European competitions.

 

[fcbforever]

Don't you think a little more competition would suit you sell and could improve yor chances of winning the CL?

Do you really think it is a coincidence that your CL title occurred during Dortmund's strongest campaigns when they really gave you a run for your money?

None of those players would have stayed at their respective clubs anyway. The problem isn’t us buying players (other Bundesliga clubs do that far more often), the problem is that we are the only ones able to keep ours under every circumstance. But that’s no a problem we are in any way responsible for.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Don't you think a little more competition would suit you sell and could improve yor chances of winning the CL?

Do you really think it is a coincidence that your CL title occurred during Dortmund's strongest campaigns when they really gave you a run for your money?

Well what are you talking to us for. Get your shit together then. You're funded by one of the biggest companies in the world ffs.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Seriously, the nerve people have. They come and complain to Bayern, of all people, about the lack of quality in the Bundesliga. We are the ONE set of people who are not responsible. Everyone else is. Everyone else needs to do better. Go complain to them.

 

[MJJ]

Seriously, the nerve people have. They come and complain to Bayern, of all people, about the lack of quality in the Bundesliga. We are the ONE set of people who are not responsible. Everyone else is. Everyone else needs to do better. Go complain to them.

Signing the best player from your competitors doesnt really help tbf.

 

[Balu]

Signing the best player from your competitors doesnt really help tbf.

It's a Leverkusen fan complaining about Bayern, which is pretty ridiculous considering the outgoing transfers from Leverkusen over the last 5-10 years. If Bayern had signed Toprak and Castro and used them as squad players like it's happening at Dortmund now, we'd never hear the end of it. Leverkusen lost all their key players to Dortmund, Tottenham, Milan, Liverpool, Schalke, Chelsea, Juve in the last years. Not one player went to Bayern in the last decade expect for Kroos returning from his loan spell.

Yet, instead of blaming the management for signing shit coaches and making bad transfer decisions despite constantly rising revenue streams, we still hear about how Bayern's destroying the league. The decline of Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen in the last 3-4 years after regularly playing in Europe, often in the CL, is no one's fault but their own. They should take a good look at their own structure and decisions and stop looking for silly excuses. And that's true for the management and the fans.

 

[MJJ]

It's a Leverkusen fan complaining about Bayern, which is pretty ridiculous considering the outgoing transfers from Leverkusen over the last 5-10 years. If Bayern had signed Toprak and Castro and used them as squad players like it's happening at Dortmund now, we'd never hear the end of it. Leverkusen lost all their key players to Dortmund, Tottenham, Milan, Liverpool, Schalke, Chelsea, Juve in the last years. Not one player went to Bayern in the last decade expect for Kroos returning from his loan spell.

Yet, instead of blaming the management for signing shit coaches and making bad transfer decisions despite constantly rising revenue streams, we still hear about how Bayern's destroying the league. The decline of Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen in the last 3-4 years after regularly playing in Europe, often in the CL, is no one's fault but their own. They should take a good look at their own structure and decisions and stop looking for silly excuses. And that's true for the management and the fans.

I don't follow other teams so will only comment on dortmund.

If they had kept lewa and gotze, it would have allowed them to challenge you and possibly win another league. This would have had a knock on effect on them being able to sign better players.

I know lewa was signed on a free but he was resigned to leave for bayern two years before his contract expired so it's pretty obvious some tapping up was done. Similar to how gotze was announced(leaked) before the biggest CL game in dortmunds recent history.

 

[Balu]

Yeah, I'm sure Lewandowski would have stayed in Dortmund, if he didn't sign for Bayern. That sounds totally reasonable.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

I don't follow other teams so will only comment on dortmund.

If they had kept lewa and gotze, it would have allowed them to challenge you and possibly win another league. This would have had a knock on effect on them being able to sign better players.

I know lewa was signed on a free but he was resigned to leave for bayern two years before his contract expired so it's pretty obvious some tapping up was done. Similar to how gotze was announced(leaked) before the biggest CL game in dortmunds recent history.

So let's take a look. A main contributing factor to Dortmund's current mediocre state is either: that they lost Lewandowski and Götze 4 respectively 5 years ago, or: that in midseason they hired the coach just sacked the week before from the last placed team for failing to manage a single win in almost 20 games, and then sold their main goalscorer to Arsenal in winter.
Hmm. It's anyone's guess, really.

 

[fcbforever]

I don't follow other teams so will only comment on dortmund.

If they had kept lewa and gotze, it would have allowed them to challenge you and possibly win another league. This would have had a knock on effect on them being able to sign better players.

I know lewa was signed on a free but he was resigned to leave for bayern two years before his contract expired so it's pretty obvious some tapping up was done. Similar to how gotze was announced(leaked) before the biggest CL game in dortmunds recent history.

Because Lewandowski, already linked to Real at that point and looking for a wage Dortmund couldn’t pay, would have stayed otherwise? Silly statement.

 

[strongwalker]

I don't follow other teams so will only comment on dortmund.

If they had kept lewa and gotze, it would have allowed them to challenge you and possibly win another league.

Lewa was headed out for certain, end of contract etc.. What makes you think Götze wouldn't have caught his illness if he had stayed in Dortmund?

 

[MJJ]

Yeah, I'm sure Lewandowski would have stayed in Dortmund, if he didn't sign for Bayern. That sounds totally reasonable.

So let's take a look. A main contributing factor to Dortmund's current mediocre state is either: that they lost Lewandowski and Götze 4 respectively 5 years ago, or: that in midseason they hired the coach just sacked the week before from the last placed team for failing to manage a single win in almost 20 games, and then sold their main goalscorer to Arsenal in winter.
Hmm. It's anyone's guess, really.

Because Lewandowski, already linked to Real at that point and looking for a wage Dortmund couldn’t pay, would have stayed otherwise? Silly statement.

Lewa was headed out for certain, end of contract etc.. What makes you think Götze wouldn't have caught his illness if he had stayed in Dortmund?

Lewandowski refused a move to anywhere else because he wanted to sign for Bayern which is why he was sold for free. There is a reasons spurs sell abroad than to domestic competitors, as you weaken yourself and strengthen a rival.

Dortmund stopped being a proper challenger to Bayern during klopps tenure, afterwards they have just sunk further.

 

[gajender]

Lewandowski refused a move to anywhere else because he wanted to sign for Bayern which is why he was sold for free. There is a reasons spurs sell abroad than to domestic competitors, as you weaken yourself and strengthen a rival.

Dortmund stopped being a proper challenger to Bayern during klopps tenure, afterwards they have just sunk further.

That theory was put to rest when they sold Walker to City they may prefer to sell abroad but at the end of the day they are a business and if player is adamant to leave for domestic rival only depending on his contract length they would do the business.

 

[Peanut Butter]

How does anyone find this league interesting, I just don’t get it?

Until something is done about Bayern hoovering up every talent then they’ll never be a different competitor.

Really sad - could be such an awesome league.

 

[fcbforever]

Lewandowski refused a move to anywhere else because he wanted to sign for Bayern which is why he was sold for free. There is a reasons spurs sell abroad than to domestic competitors, as you weaken yourself and strengthen a rival.

Dortmund stopped being a proper challenger to Bayern during klopps tenure, afterwards they have just sunk further.

They could have just sold him you know

 

[MJJ]

They could have just sold him you know

Even if he refuses to sign the contract?

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Lewandowski refused a move to anywhere else because he wanted to sign for Bayern which is why he was sold for free. There is a reasons spurs sell abroad than to domestic competitors, as you weaken yourself and strengthen a rival.

Dortmund stopped being a proper challenger to Bayern during klopps tenure, afterwards they have just sunk further.

Yes, you're right. Still I don't get what's your point here. Should we have refused to sign Lewandowski because he played for a Bundesliga competitor before? Is that what clubs usually do?

 

[MJJ]

Yes, you're right. Still I don't get what's your point here. Should we have refused to sign Lewandowski because he played for a Bundesliga competitor before? Is that what clubs usually do?

No I don't blame your club for it, it was a smart move. But moves like that have played a significant part in your dominance and a lack of challengers.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

No I don't blame your club for it, it was a smart move. But moves like that have played a significant part in your dominance and a lack of challengers.

Again, no. The fact that this moves happens is a result of our economic dominance, not the cause of it.
BVB are not big enough to keep a player like Lewandowski. We are big enough that he wants to sign for us.

 

[MJJ]

Again, no. The fact that this moves happens is a result of our economic dominance, not the cause of it.
BVB are not big enough to keep a player like Lewandowski. We are big enough that he wants to sign for us.

I agree with that, should have worded it better. Bayern would be Bayern even without signing rival players as you guys are big enough and well run, however moves like that have weakened your challengers to the point where bundesliga is a foregone conclusion.

Its also why I found monaco "helping" PSG with the FFP for Mbappe weird, you dont help your rivals like that.

 

[fcbforever]

I agree with that, should have worded it better. Bayern would be Bayern even without signing rival players as you guys are big enough and well run, however moves like that have weakened your challengers to the point where bundesliga is a foregone conclusion.

Its also why I found monaco "helping" PSG with the FFP for Mbappe weird, you dont help your rivals like that.

What you say is just effin stupid. Dortmund would not have kept Lewandowski. Not a chance in hell. If he hadn't gone to us, he would have left the league that very same year. We would have signed another striker of similar stature (likely Higuain IIRC). Remind me, what would be the difference again? How have we weakened the league there? When it comes to Dortmund, you could say that Man Utd is just as guilty for "killing" them as we are.

 

[Zehner]

None of those players would have stayed at their respective clubs anyway. The problem isn’t us buying players (other Bundesliga clubs do that far more often), the problem is that we are the only ones able to keep ours under every circumstance. But that’s no a problem we are in any way responsible for.

That's a ridicilous statement. Lewandowski wanted to make the next step in his career planning but on the other hand even he didn't want to go to Spain or England. He purposely chose Bayern because his agents didn't think he could become such a brand at other top clubs of that era because he would have played the second fiddle to either Cristiano or Messi. And the English teams were at a devastating state at this time. With Götze and Hummels it is a totally different story. Götze himself didn't wanted a transfer up until Bayern and Guardiola knocked on the door and he wanted to take a lifetime opportunity. Back in the day everyone believed he would play a role similar to Messi's in Barcelona under Pep. And Hummels seemed eager to stay in Germany.

Anyway, it is a difference if you lose a player to a foreign club or to a direct competitor. You don't understand it but I am sure many here will agree that this is a huge difference. Intended or not, with the purchases of their three best players you made a point and reprimanded the BVB. You proved to anyone and their mother, including current and future BVB players as well as the international football community that you are the number one in Germany and that everyone who believed that finally there could be a competitor for the mighty FC Bayern had been being naive and delusional all the time. It was a statement of power that you do not allow another top club besides you in Germany. And if you think that this didn't affect the perception of the BVB you are being naive, too. Before that, players may have thought they could actually win leagues and maybe even international competitions with Dortmund. But you showed them their place and introduced them as a selling club.

Seriously, the nerve people have. They come and complain to Bayern, of all people, about the lack of quality in the Bundesliga. We are the ONE set of people who are not responsible. Everyone else is. Everyone else needs to do better. Go complain to them.

Silly thinking. Many German clubs are lead brillantly but they simply lack the financial means. You said that we are backed up by one of the biggest companies in the world. And this company grants us an astonishing 20 million Euro per anno. Yet, we purchased Bailey for 18 million, Tah for 9 million, Brandt for 1 million and developed Havertz in our academy. And guess what? We can already look for their successors because in five years time they will be gone and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
I guess you have simply no idea how hard it is to convince your players of staying in a one horse league if you are not that one horse that wins it every year. Look at all the talent the Bundesliga produces through scouting and youth academies but is unable to retain - do you really think this is the clubs' fault?

And yes, the system is responsible, too. The DFL is just bad at marketing, you see it in so many areas. The amount of money the league makes through TV licences and advertising is not even medioce compared to other nations. By the way, one reason for that is that noone cares about a one horse race league. And this again comes down to you demantling Dortmund, if you want to admit it or not. It was a clever move in the short term but in the long term the one you harmed the most is yourself. Because if the league detoriates you will detoriate too. Uli Hoeneß himself said that it is hard for you to sustain your form and motivation up until the latter stages of the CL because there is no real competitor in the league. Congratulations.

 

[MJJ]

What you say is just effin stupid. Dortmund would not have kept Lewandowski. Not a chance in hell. If he hadn't gone to us, he would have left the league that very same year. We would have signed another striker of similar stature (likely Higuain IIRC). Remind me, what would be the difference again? How have we weakened the league there? When it comes to Dortmund, you could say that Man Utd is just as guilty for "killing" them as we are.

Again, that would have been a better scenario for them. Higuain is nowhere near the level of Lewa, that move symbolised that you guys are still the alpha and dortmund are nowhere near.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

I agree with that, should have worded it better. Bayern would be Bayern even without signing rival players as you guys are big enough and well run, however moves like that have weakened your challengers to the point where bundesliga is a foregone conclusion.

Its also why I found monaco "helping" PSG with the FFP for Mbappe weird, you dont help your rivals like that.

Which striker could we have signed instead of Lewandowski? Let Lewandowski go to Real and try to sign Benzema for shitloads of money, amids a bidding war with a handful of PL clubs? Why would we not do what's best for us?

Every big club signs some of the best players from smaller clubs in their league.
How is us signing Rudy and Süle different from Liverpool signing Lallana, Mané, Lovren, van Dijk etc, Utd signing Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Young or Lukaku?
It happens everywhere, even among comparably big clubs. City signing Nasri, Sagna, or Sterling, United signing Alexis, Mata. In Italy. In Spain.

Only when we do it, it's somehow destroying the league. And we don't even do it that much.
If you look at the starting 11s of the 2013 Champins League Final, Dortmund had more players signed from Bundesliga rivals than we had. If you look at the drainage of top players from Bundesliga in recent years, only a small part went to Bayern, the majority to big clubs all over.

All this means, that it's really, really tiring when all people have to say about Bundesliga is "oh well Bayern are destroying the competition". I'm sure you can understand.

Now granted, we surely do not 'help' our rivals, and when Rummenigge sanctimoniously claims something like that after signing Goretzka on a free, it's pure BS. But it's not our job to make the competition even, it's our job to be the best that we can, and the others' job to stop us or get the better of us. That's the bottom line.

(That is assuming of course that the framework and rules of the competition are even, that's another debate. Suffice it to say that if you look at the fact that our financial edge comes to the overwhelmingly biggest part from commercial income, not from TV income given out by the league to be shared among the competitors, you can see we are not unfairly advantaged.
Unless you want to propose we need to give part of our commercial income to our competitors, or that the league should forbid us from signing players from Bundesliga clubs, which would be rather... unique measures..)

Now, I also won't deny that over the course of the last decades, some of our transfer moves have been dickish and had a destructive component. Ballack, Zé Roberto and Lucio come to mind.
I personally thought the Götze signing was a dickish move (you mention also the timing of the announcement which was entangled in Hoeneß's tax evasion story, though arguably the leak might have also come from Real), and it's proven to have ultimately been a bad move for everyone involved.
In that case it would have been better if Hoeneß had kept it in his pants, I totally agree. On the other hand, I really wish we would have poached some of De Bruyne, Sane, Gündogan, who left their clubs without our evil and destructive fingering.

 

[fcbforever]

That's a ridicilous statement. Lewandowski wanted to make the next step in his career planning but on the other hand even he didn't want to go to Spain or England. He purposely chose Bayern because his agents didn't think he could become such a brand at other top clubs of that era because he would have played the second fiddle to either Cristiano or Messi. And the English teams were at a devastating state at this time. With Götze and Hummels it is a totally different story. Götze himself didn't wanted a transfer up until Bayern and Guardiola knocked on the door and he wanted to take a lifetime opportunity. Back in the day everyone believed he would play a role similar to Messi's in Barcelona under Pep. And Hummels seemed eager to stay in Germany.

Anyway, it is a difference if you lose a player to a foreign club or to a direct competitor. You don't understand it but I am sure many here will agree that this is a huge difference. Intended or not, with the purchases of their three best players you made a point and reprimanded the BVB. You proved to anyone and their mother, including current and future BVB players as well as the international football community that you are the number one in Germany and that everyone who believed that finally there could be a competitor for the mighty FC Bayern had been being naive and delusional all the time. It was a statement of power that you do not allow another top club besides you in Germany. And if you think that this didn't affect the perception of the BVB you are being naive, too. Before that, players may have thought they could actually win leagues and maybe even international competitions with Dortmund. But you showed them their place and introduced them as a selling club.



Silly thinking. Many German clubs are lead brillantly but they simply lack the financial means. You said that we are backed up by one of the biggest companies in the world. And this company grants us an astonishing 20 million Euro per anno. Yet, we purchased Bailey for 18 million, Tah for 9 million, Brandt for 1 million and developed Havertz in our academy. And guess what? We can already look for their successors because in five years time they will be gone and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
I guess you have simply no idea how hard it is to convince your players of staying in a one horse league if you are not that one horse that wins it every year. Look at all the talent the Bundesliga produces through scouting and youth academies but is unable to retain - do you really think this is the clubs' fault?

And yes, the system is responsible, too. The DFL is just bad at marketing, you see it in so many areas. The amount of money the league makes through TV licences and advertising is not even medioce compared to other nations. By the way, one reason for that is that noone cares about a one horse race league. And this again comes down to you demantling Dortmund, if you want to admit it or not. It was a clever move in the short term but in the long term the one you harmed the most is yourself. Because if the league detoriates you will detoriate too. Uli Hoeneß himself said that it is hard for you to sustain your form and motivation up until the latter stages of the CL because there is no real competitor in the league. Congratulations.

First grade bullshit. He preferred to stay in Germany, but it was very clear he would leave anyway if we weren't interested or wouldn't pay his wages. There is no way he would have stayed at Dortmund beyond 2014, everyone saying so is stupid. And there's no difference at all where you lose a player to unless you are some sentimental fan with a weird look on the real world. It makes zero difference for Dortmund if its Lewandowski or Higuain scorign a hattrick against them. "Demantling Dortmund". People like you are just unbelievable. We got three players which would have left anyway, while the rest went to Arsenal, Man Utd, Real, whatever. They have lost far more players elsewhere than to us.

Also, many clubs are brilliantly led. Lul no. Bar a few examples, like Dortmund up until recently and RB Leipzig, they are all led by absolute clowns stuck in the 1980's. Your second paragraph is the worst by far in general: may I remind you of the times Bayern was shit as well? I vividly remember the 2000's. When we couldn't do shit internationally and clubs like Wolsburg won the league? The Bundesliga was much weaker back in the day and international interest was zero. The sole fecking reason there's interest in the league these days and that TV revenue is rising (and it is) is Bayerns rise past 2009. You want to know why it is lower here than elsewhere? Again, reasonable people know the reason isn't us. They know the reason is Germany doesn't have a Pay-TV culture. That's always been the problem. People aren't willing to pay for football, at least not as much as elsewhere.

 

[fcbforever]

Again, that would have been a better scenario for them. Higuain is nowhere near the level of Lewa, that move symbolised that you guys are still the alpha and dortmund are nowhere near.

Bullshit. Everyone knew we were "alpha" because we had and have double the revenue, but that's hardly our fault. And honestly, Higuain is not that far behind. We would have been weaker in the CL maybe, but for the Bundesliga, it would have made zero difference.

 

[roonster09]

Not sure why you guys type the same post again and again. Just post the urls to the argument that has already happened 100 times.

 

[fcbforever]

Which striker could we have signed instead of Lewandowski? Let Lewandowski go to Real and try to sign Benzema for shitloads of money, amids a bidding war with a handful of PL clubs? Why would we not do what's best for us?

Every big club signs some of the best players from smaller clubs in their league.
How is us signing Rudy and Süle different from Liverpool signing Lallana, Mané, Lovren, van Dijk etc, Utd signing Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Young or Lukaku?
It happens everywhere, even among comparably big clubs. City signing Nasri, Sagna, or Sterling, United signing Alexis, Mata. In Italy. In Spain.

Only when we do it, it's somehow destroying the league. And we don't even do it that much.
If you look at the starting 11s of the 2013 Champins League Final, Dortmund had more players signed from Bundesliga rivals than we had. If you look at the drainage of top players from Bundesliga in recent years, only a small part went to Bayern, the majority to big clubs all over.

All this means, that it's really, really tiring when all people have to say about Bundesliga is "oh well Bayern are destroying the competition". I'm sure you can understand.

Now granted, we surely do not 'help' our rivals, and when Rummenigge sanctimoniously claims something like that after signing Goretzka on a free, it's pure BS. But it's not our job to make the competition even, it's our job to be the best that we can, and the others' job to stop us or get the better of us. That's the bottom line.

(That is assuming of course that the framework and rules of the competition are even, that's another debate. Suffice it to say that if you look at the fact that our financial edge comes to the overwhelmingly biggest part from commercial income, not from TV income given out by the league to be shared among the competitors, you can see we are not unfairly advantaged.
Unless you want to propose we need to give part of our commercial income to our competitors, or that the league should forbid us from signing players from Bundesliga clubs, which would be rather... unique measures..)

Now, I also won't deny that over the course of the last decades, some of our transfer moves have been dickish and had a destructive component. Ballack, Zé Roberto and Lucio come to mind.
I personally thought the Götze signing was a dickish move (you mention also the timing of the announcement which was entangled in Hoeneß's tax evasion story, though arguably the leak might have also come from Real), and it's proven to have ultimately been a bad move for everyone involved.
In that case it would have been better if Hoeneß had kept it in his pants, I totally agree. On the other hand, I really wish we would have poached some of De Bruyne, Sane, Gündogan, who left their clubs without our evil and destructive fingering.

This. The Bundesliga isn't destroyed by us, it's destroyed by the Premier League and foreign slave money there and elsewhere. All clubs in the Bundesliga top 6 bar Leipzig have more players signed from Bundesliga rivals in their squads than us by the way.

 

[fcbforever]

Not sure why you guys type the same post again and again. Just post the urls to the argument that has already happened 100 times.

It's just astonishing that people seem to be unable to grasp basic facts. Seven players in our squad are signed from the Bundesliga. This whole decade, since 2010, we have signed a grand total of 13 players from the Bundesliga, thats including the 7 still here. Premier league bought 10 Bundesliga players in the summer of 2016 alone.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Not sure why you guys type the same post again and again. Just post the urls to the argument that has already happened 100 times.

True. Maybe we should make some links to typical arguments sticky at the top of the page.
In this case I bothered because @MJJ seems like a nice poster who deserves to be answered.

 

[JustFootballFan]

Money talks. All this crap about clubs not being big enough for a player is just BS. Was PSG big enough? Was City big enough? Was Chelsea big enough? Is China big enough? Is MLS big enough? If Dortmund had paid Gotze, Lewandowski, Hummels, Kagawa and Gundogan they all would have stayed. Why would you leave a two time champion and a CL finalist. MONEY.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Money talks. All this crap about clubs not being big enough for a player is just BS. Was PSG big enough? Was City big enough? Was Chelsea big enough? Is China big enough? Is MLS big enough? If Dortmund had paid Gotze, Lewandowski, Hummels, Kagawa and Gundogan they all would have stayed. Why would you leave a two time champion and a CL finalist. MONEY.

Yeah well exactly. Not enough money. Not big enough. Same thing.

 

[MJJ]

Which striker could we have signed instead of Lewandowski? Let Lewandowski go to Real and try to sign Benzema for shitloads of money, amids a bidding war with a handful of PL clubs? Why would we not do what's best for us?

Every big club signs some of the best players from smaller clubs in their league.
How is us signing Rudy and Süle different from Liverpool signing Lallana, Mané, Lovren, van Dijk etc, Utd signing Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Young or Lukaku?
It happens everywhere, even among comparably big clubs. City signing Nasri, Sagna, or Sterling, United signing Alexis, Mata. In Italy. In Spain.

Only when we do it, it's somehow destroying the league. And we don't even do it that much.
If you look at the starting 11s of the 2013 Champins League Final, Dortmund had more players signed from Bundesliga rivals than we had. If you look at the drainage of top players from Bundesliga in recent years, only a small part went to Bayern, the majority to big clubs all over.

All this means, that it's really, really tiring when all people have to say about Bundesliga is "oh well Bayern are destroying the competition". I'm sure you can understand.

Now granted, we surely do not 'help' our rivals, and when Rummenigge sanctimoniously claims something like that after signing Goretzka on a free, it's pure BS. But it's not our job to make the competition even, it's our job to be the best that we can, and the others' job to stop us or get the better of us. That's the bottom line.

(That is assuming of course that the framework and rules of the competition are even, that's another debate. Suffice it to say that if you look at the fact that our financial edge comes to the overwhelmingly biggest part from commercial income, not from TV income given out by the league to be shared among the competitors, you can see we are not unfairly advantaged.
Unless you want to propose we need to give part of our commercial income to our competitors, or that the league should forbid us from signing players from Bundesliga clubs, which would be rather... unique measures..)

Now, I also won't deny that over the course of the last decades, some of our transfer moves have been dickish and had a destructive component. Ballack, Zé Roberto and Lucio come to mind.
I personally thought the Götze signing was a dickish move (you mention also the timing of the announcement which was entangled in Hoeneß's tax evasion story, though arguably the leak might have also come from Real), and it's proven to have ultimately been a bad move for everyone involved.
In that case it would have been better if Hoeneß had kept it in his pants, I totally agree. On the other hand, I really wish we would have poached some of De Bruyne, Sane, Gündogan, who left their clubs without our evil and destructive fingering.

Its not, city I think targeted arsenal as a weak link who could be bullied and systematically went to replacing arsenal in the top three which succeeded. Yeah, I can see why the "Bayern are destroying the competition" part gets annoying since you are where you are due to good management and thats only a part of the reason.

Take De Bruyne for example, after he left wolfsburg turn to shit which is something that would naturally have happened even if you signed him(same thing with dortmund, they would be worse off as if not you someone else would have signed the lewa and hummels) but if you guys sign him it takes you up a level while weakening them at the same time. That is hard to compete with over time.

Same case with Mbappe, if monaco had not helped psg and either kept him or sold him overseas, they would have a better chance of competing with PSG. As it is there minuscule chance went down to zero.

 

[MJJ]

True. Maybe we should make some links to typical arguments sticky at the top of the page.
In this case I bothered because @MJJ seems like a nice poster who deserves to be answered.

Aww Thanks

You arguments were pretty informative and well-put together unlike a certain poster who supports barcelona in secret

 

[Zehner]

Yes, Germany has no pay TV culture. That is true. But the league is totally uninteresting from an international perspective. You remember the records and the international press reaction to the "German clasico" back in the day when Dortmund were on your level? Well, I guess it is not that popular anymore.

Again, it is silly to say that you "only bought three players that would have left anyway" from the BVB. You sent a message, if you refuse to believe it or not.
Its funny that you are criticizing the management of other clubs. You know how easy it would be for us to establish us constanstly among the Top 3 if we could just buy the best players of our new competitors? Like, we would just buy Werner and Goretzka to solve our striker and CM problems?

And how do you suppose Dortmund should establish itself as an international top club if they can't even prevent their best players from going to a direct league rival? Why should any ambitious top player come to Dortmund or stay there once you made sure to show everybody that there is no competition in this league?

I think it is funny how Bayern fans still deny these dynamics albeit they are so obvious.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Its not, city I think targeted arsenal as a weak link who could be bullied and systematically went to replacing arsenal in the top three which succeeded. Yeah, I can see why the "Bayern are destroying the competition" part gets annoying since you are where you are due to good management and thats only a part of the reason.

Arsenal at that time had financial constraints too, while City invested heavily. Arsenal simply could not keep up with the wages City offered. Now that Arsenal have their stadium covered, lo and behold they manage to keep a player like Özil (not Alexis, whose wage demands ultimately were even too high for City, or us for that matter, lol)

Take De Bruyne for example, after he left wolfsburg turn to shit which is something that would naturally have happened even if you signed him(same thing with dortmund, they would be worse off as if not you someone else would have signed the lewa and hummels) but if you guys sign him it takes you up a level while weakening them at the same time. That is hard to compete with over time.

Same case with Mbappe, if monaco had not helped psg and either kept him or sold him overseas, they would have a better chance of competing with PSG. As it is there minuscule chance went down to zero.

Maybe we can implement a rule where everytime we are supposed to play a title competitor in the league, one of the other European top clubs is substituted in for us. So instead of losing to us last weekend, BVB would have played one of Real, Barca, Juventus, City, that way they would still have lost 3 points but we wouldn't have gained 3 points at the same time.