Bundesliga 2017/18

[Cristiano Lell]

They often claimed that it is and was Hopp's plan to have the club sustain itself, so I guess it's true. I think it's silly to call it a disgrace though. People too often forget that most clubs have to live within their means and can't just throw around money just because they had one good season.

We paid them more than 20m for Süle though, and they went and bought Nordveidt from West Ham. That's not self-sustaining, that is suffocating oneself.
Personally I think it is a disgrace, as we have the 4th placed team in BuLi getting embarrassed in the EL group stage as a result.

 

[do.ob]

We paid them more than 20m for Süle though, and they went and bought Nordveidt from West Ham. That's not self-sustaining, that is suffocating oneself.
Personally I think it is a disgrace, as we have the 4th placed team in BuLi getting embarrassed in the EL group stage as a result.

You also have to factor in stuff like wages and Hoffenheim's unattractiveness for sponsors other than SAP. Sustaining oneself doesn't just end at summing up gross transfer fees.
The embarassing thing isn't that Hoffenheim can't spend more it's that they got into top 4 in the first place, because Gladbach, Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg, etc fecked up so much.

What’s the song Koln is singing?

I’m pretty sure I’ve heard a version of this song in Scotland - “Loch Lomond”

It's their club "hymn" they sing before every match.

"Mer stonn zo dir FC Kölle" is the title
"Wir stehn zu dir FC Köln" in German and "We stand with you FC Köln" in English.

Club's often don't mind borrowing melodies.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

The embarassing thing isn't that Hoffenheim can't spend more it's that they got into top 4 in the first place, because Gladbach, Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg, etc fecked up so much.

Yes, that's true. Good point.

 

[Sly]

You also have to factor in stuff like wages and Hoffenheim's unattractiveness for sponsors other than SAP. Sustaining oneself doesn't just end at summing up gross transfer fees.
The embarassing thing isn't that Hoffenheim can't spend more it's that they got into top 4 in the first place, because Gladbach, Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg, etc fecked up so much.

It's unfair in the Europa League as well going up against the incredible budgets of Braga and Ludogorets.

 

[do.ob]

It's unfair in the Europa League as well going up against the incredible budgets of Braga and Ludogorets.

Those two play in Europe on a regular basis, they are used to the competition and to the constant midweek fixtures. Hoffenheim however played in a Euopean Cup for the first time in their history, even their coach has no experience in such competitions. So they make silly mistakes, lose their nerves at times and feck up their first half of the season. It's not an original story.
Dortmund also crashed out of Europe when they first returned to CL football only to make it to the final the following year.
On the other hand Schalke almost made it into the EL semis last season despite being in terrible form.
Experience means a lot.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

It's unfair in the Europa League as well going up against the incredible budgets of Braga and Ludogorets.

It may sound strange, but both Braga and Ludogorets have about 1000 times more European football experience than Hoffenheim.

 

[Sly]

It may sound strange, but both Braga and Ludogorets have about 1000 times more European football experience than Hoffenheim.

Those two play in Europe on a regular basis, they are used to the competition and to the constant midweek fixtures. Hoffenheim however played in a Euopean Cup for the first time in their history, even their coach has no experience in such competitions. So they make silly mistakes, lose their nerves at times and feck up their first half of the season. It's not an original story.

Nice try but i don't think so. Braga's manager is completely unproven in europe and so are the vast majority of their players. Of course you don't have to know that since you don't follow portuguese football. They also don't play in a league like the bundesliga nor have the same resources. I'd bet most of Hoffenheim's players have played in more high profile matches than Braga's.

 

[do.ob]

Nice try but i don't think so. Braga's manager is completely unproven in europe and so are the vast majority of their players. Of course you don't have to know that since you don't follow portuguese football. They also don't play in a league like the bundesliga nor have the same resources. I'd bet most of Hoffenheim's players have played in more high profile matches than Braga's.

Braga played EL football in the past two season, even making it into the quarter final in one of them.. They are used to the competition. Don't think I have to be an expert on Portuguese football to spot that.

 

[Sly]

Braga played EL football in the past two season, even making it into the quarter final in one of them.. They are used to the competition. Don't think I have to be an expert on Portuguese football to spot that.

You do have to understand that they had a major overhaul. It's obviously not the same team. Unless you can magically transfer european experience to new players or manager who had exactly 0 games in european competitions. Same as Hoffenheim who lost important players in Sule, Rudy or Toljan. Best players going to Bayern, Braga's best player going to Fulham in the Championship.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Nice try but i don't think so. Braga's manager is completely unproven in europe and so are the vast majority of their players. Of course you don't have to know that since you don't follow portuguese football. They also don't play in a league like the bundesliga nor have the same resources. I'd bet most of Hoffenheim's players have played in more high profile matches than Braga's.

It's not a 'try'. It's just a fact that as a club, Hoffenheim played their very first European games EVER this season.
I haven't watched the games so I wouldn't know whether they over-, underperformed or whatever, and I don't really care either, but it's nothing new that European games require their own kind of experience and swagger.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Unless you can magically transfer european experience to new players or manager who had exactly 0 games in european competitions.

I do think you kind of can, yes. It's not just about individuals, clubs themselves have a record which informs their appearances.

 

[Sly]

It's not a 'try'. It's just a fact that as a club, Hoffenheim played their very first European games EVER this season.
I haven't watched the games so I wouldn't know whether they over-, underperformed or whatever, and I don't really care either, but it's nothing new that European games require their own kind of experience and swagger.

Christ. This is getting tiresome. Vast majority of Braga players, including their goal scorers (Marcelo Goiano and Fransérgio) were exactly in the same position. They also don't play in a league with Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Schalke, Leipzig etc. It's no excuse in my opinion. But each to their own.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Christ. This is getting tiresome. Vast majority of Braga players, including their goal scorers (Marcelo Goiano and Fransérgio) were exactly in the same position. They also don't play in a league with Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Schalke, Leipzig etc. It's no excuse in my opinion. But each to their own.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up tbh
You just seem to be of the opinion that facing Braga and Ludogorets this EL, Hoffenheim should have been considered huge favourites. I'm afraid to say that I don't think so. Nothing about my point is meant to big up Hoffenheim, or belittle Braga, by the way, quite the contrary.

 

[Sly]

I do think you kind of can, yes. It's not just about individuals, clubs themselves have a record which informs their appearances.

Yeah 80% of the players and the respective manager with first european experience, will get it by reading the club's european football wikipedia. The level of excuses from a club with more resources and from a bigger league with more high profile matches.

 

[Sly]

I don't know why you're getting so worked up tbh
You just seem to be of the opinion that facing Braga and Ludogorets this EL, Hoffenheim should have been considered huge favourites. I'm afraid to say that I don't think so. Nothing about my point is meant to big up Hoffenheim, or belittle Braga, by the way, quite the contrary.

I'm not getting worked up. It's just that the constant budget talk sometimes in this forum is funny. I don't care about Braga or Hoffenheim. I just made a sarcastic remark which was rebutted and so on. That's it.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

This is the Bundesliga thread. You brought Braga into it tbh, so don't accuse us of annoying you with 'budget talk' when the discussion was triggered by a Hoffenheim loss to Hamburg..

 

[Sly]

This is the Bundesliga thread. You brought Braga into it tbh, so don't accuse us of annoying you with 'budget talk' when the discussion was triggered by a Hoffenheim loss to Hamburg..

Hey don't get so worked up. I said it was funny, not annoying. Anyways enough off topic.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Hey don't get so worked up. I said it was funny, not annoying. Anyways enough off topic.

Right.
Anyway, if your point was that Hoffenheim, and possibly Nagelsmann, performed poorly in EL and the notion of budget restraints are not an excuse there, I'm obviously not arguing with you.

But if we're going turn this into a 'Nagelsmann is found out' kind of argument, we'll have to bring the market behaviour of the club, as well as the state of the squad, into it. Not to deny that an unexperienced coach like Nagelsmann might have weaker performances too, after his heroics in the last 2 seasons.

 

[Sly]

Right.
Anyway, if your point was that Hoffenheim, and possibly Nagelsmann, performed poorly in EL and the notion of budget restraints are not an excuse there, I'm obviously not arguin with you.

But if we're going turn this into a 'Nagelsmann is found out' kind of argument, we'll have to bring the market behaviour of the club, as well as the state of the squad, into it. Not to deny that an unexperienced coach like Nagelsmann might have weaker performances too, after his heroics in the last 2 seasons.

Correct on the first count. In relation to the second you will see that i mocked Nagelsmann for another poor result but i did also post that i thought that he was a young coach with potencial and that he could evolve with experience. I don't think he has been found out at all. In fact i prefer young coaches rather than the constant recycling and merry go round of the same ol names. Our President actually did that by appointing young managers such as Leonardo Jardim and Marco Silva but then ruined it all by appointing Jorge Jesus and his annoying managerial vices.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

We lost against fecking Cologne who are all but relegated FFS!

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Correct on the first count. In relation to the second you will see that i mocked Nagelsmann for another poor result but i did also post that i thought that he was a young coach with potencial and that he could evolve with experience. I don't think he has been found out at all. In fact i prefer young coaches rather than the constant recycling and merry go round of the same ol names. Our President actually did that by appointing young managers such as Leonardo Jardim and Marco Silva but then ruined it all by appointing Jorge Jesus and his annoying managerial vices.

Regarding Jorge Jesus, is it normal to move from Benfica to Sporting just like that? I would assume the rivalry is quite fierce..

 

[Sly]

Regarding Jorge Jesus, is it normal to move from Benfica to Sporting just like that? I would assume the rivalry is quite fierce..

Benfica dumped him and Mendes along with the Benfica President tried to put him managing abroad but Sporting made a huge offer and unfortunately he accepted. Jorge Jesus and his father played for Sporting and supported the club so he always had the secret desire to manage us. The fact that the Jorge Jesus father was ill (died last year) also made him reject any offer from outside Portugal.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Another defeat for Cologne

 

[Carolina Red]

ha, interesting, I didn't know the origin of the Köln hymn was actually from an old scottish song, thanks for sharing! Love the sound, it breathes desire, nostalgia, hope but also doom and gloom. The atmosphere in the stadium is mostly great btw, only topped by the Steigerlied auf Schalke.



the video doesn't show how it feels, though. This song goes deep to the roots of the whole Ruhrgebiet, it's the traditional song from the workers, who were down in the earth digging for coal and were able to provide the whole area with money and prosperity. Those times are long forgotten, though, the colleries are all closed nowadays and the cities are poor and shabby. But when singing this song, everyone remembers their proud heritage and embraces the spirit of the Ruhrgebiet. Getting goosebumps everytime I hear it.

Here another display, when the last collery was closed. Almost made me cry

1) That at Schalke is awesome. One thing I like about German clubs, in as much as I’ve gotten to know about them in America, is how tied into the local culture they are. I’m really glad Fox picked up the Bundesliga.

2) Koln apparently adopted to music of Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond and adapted the lyrics to fit their club. You’re right about the song though, the original is very poignant and theirs sounds just as good.

 

[K2K]

yeah, those clubs are usually "organically" grown from the respective region and since they were all founded around 1900, the people and the clubs have won, lost, loved, suffered, lived and died together. And because of the 50+1 rule, german football clubs can not be owned by investors, which cements identification. The cultural aspects of the 50+1 rule is definitely positive, but from a singularily sportive perspective, it's hindering the Bundesliga in reaching the level of La Liga and the BPL.
Always nice to hear someone from across the ocean is by any means interested in what's happening here in terms of football and culture.

Leipzig got around that and have been a breath of fresh air since.

 

[K2K]

They definitely have been and I feel like if the Bundesliga wants to compete, the 50+1 rule has to be deactivated to be able to go with time. A lot will be lost, then, but imo it's overdue. One can already see the decline or the inability to go even with the other topleagues in the CL and EL. Since Hoffenheim and Leipzig is just a glimpse, we can already tell that the traditional clubs could become less relevant, than they are today. Which in itself is not a bad thing if your main focus is competetiveness. If you want to see football culture/folklore, it would obviously suck.

Would be good imo.

But it will never happen.

 

[do.ob]

They definitely have been and I feel like if the Bundesliga wants to compete, the 50+1 rule has to be deactivated to be able to go with time. A lot will be lost, then, but imo it's overdue. One can already see the decline or the inability to go even with the other topleagues in the CL and EL. Since Hoffenheim and Leipzig is just a glimpse, we can already tell that the traditional clubs could become less relevant, than they are today. Which in itself is not a bad thing if your main focus is competetiveness. If you want to see football culture/folklore, it would obviously suck.

Yeah, let's feck over our football culture so we maybe have a better chance at a dick measuring contest with other leagues. Which btw is a funny point to bring up, since Real, Barca and Bayern, who won the past 5 CLs between them don't have sugar daddies, while PSG and their unlimited spending hasn't even seen a CL semi yet. Clubs like Wolfsburg or Ingolstadt also give you a glimpse of what might happen without 50+1. Shitty clubs with no fan base, no away crowd, who can't even sell out CL matches taking up space in the league. Or Hannover, where Kind finally took control of the club at the expense of his team's support in the stadium.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

Yeah, let's feck over our football culture so we maybe have a better chance at a dick measuring contest with other leagues. Which btw is a funny point to bring up, since Real, Barca and Bayern, who won the past 5 CLs between them don't have sugar daddies, while PSG and their unlimited spending hasn't even seen a CL semi yet. Clubs like Wolfsburg or Ingolstadt also give you a glimpse of what might happen without 50+1. Shitty clubs with no fan base, no away crowd, who can't even sell out CL matches taking up space in the league. Or Hannover, where Kind finally took control of the club at the expense of his team's support in the stadium.

+1

 

[Sly]

Yeah, let's feck over our football culture so we maybe have a better chance at a dick measuring contest with other leagues. Which btw is a funny point to bring up, since Real, Barca and Bayern, who won the past 5 CLs between them don't have sugar daddies, while PSG and their unlimited spending hasn't even seen a CL semi yet. Clubs like Wolfsburg or Ingolstadt also give you a glimpse of what might happen without 50+1. Shitty clubs with no fan base, no away crowd, who can't even sell out CL matches taking up space in the league. Or Hannover, where Kind finally took control of the club at the expense of his team's support in the stadium.

* Applause

 

[Piratesoup]

Yeah, let's feck over our football culture so we maybe have a better chance at a dick measuring contest with other leagues. Which btw is a funny point to bring up, since Real, Barca and Bayern, who won the past 5 CLs between them don't have sugar daddies, while PSG and their unlimited spending hasn't even seen a CL semi yet. Clubs like Wolfsburg or Ingolstadt also give you a glimpse of what might happen without 50+1. Shitty clubs with no fan base, no away crowd, who can't even sell out CL matches taking up space in the league. Or Hannover, where Kind finally took control of the club at the expense of his team's support in the stadium.

Hear hear!

Do you actually read posts that you're answering to? I never said that I am in favor of abolishing 50+1
But hey let's post some random shit

Spot the irony. He only pointed out why abolishing 50+1 would suck and why the Bundesliga should keep it, nowhere did he even mention you being for it. And his points are spot on, especially the part about measuring dicks.

 

[Balu]

Do you actually read posts that you're answering to? I never said that I am in favor of abolishing 50+1

They definitely have been and I feel like if the Bundesliga wants to compete, the 50+1 rule has to be deactivated to be able to go with time. A lot will be lost, then, but imo it's overdue. One can already see the decline or the inability to go even with the other topleagues in the CL and EL. Since Hoffenheim and Leipzig is just a glimpse, we can already tell that the traditional clubs could become less relevant, than they are today. Which in itself is not a bad thing if your main focus is competetiveness. If you want to see football culture/folklore, it would obviously suck.

When you say, that in your opinion it's overdue, doesn't that mean you are in favour of abolishing 50+1 ?

 

[Piratesoup]

He suggested that I was into it by quoting me and saying "Yeah, let's feck over our...", the context can only be interpreted as such, sorry.

He just reacted to your thoughts by giving his own. Childish and thinly skinned rebuttal on your part. And your own wording was the only suggestive thing here (suggesting that you are for it, that is).

btw I find it very interesting that ppl who don't like one special competitiveness simply call it "dick measuring". It's all about discredeting at that point.

Believe it or not, some fans don't care about bragging rights for being in "the strongest league in the world" or about which country got how many teams to what stage in what cup. They care about their team.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Freiburg-Hamburg today.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

0-0 at HT.

 

[GhastlyHun]

I hope for your sake you're not actually watching.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

I hope for your sake you're not actually watching.

Just checking the result, as i am watching Napoli-Juve. Are you watching Hamburg?

 

[GhastlyHun]

Just checking the result, as i am watching Napoli-Juve. Are you watching Hamburg?

Nah, I value my friday evening way too much.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Nah, I value my friday evening way too much.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

0-0 FT.

 

[JustFootballFan]

And again Volland behind the whole Dortmund defense in his own half and a long pass by Havertz 1-0. Btw Havertz is probably the next big thing in German football. He got everything. 18 years old, 34 BL games, 4 goals and 10 assists.