Bundesliga 2016/17

The departure of Ginter was off the table the moment we pulled out of the Toprak negotiations.

We quite simply can´t afford to let another CB leave this window. If Ginter does not finally take the final step this season, he will be probably out the door next Summer, though, especially because Watzke basically confirmed a few days ago that there is already an agreement with Toprak in place for 2017 unless something crazy happens.
 
slig said:
Even without Ginter our CB is really strong in my eyes. Sokratis is one of the best CB, and Bartra will be great for us. The playtime i saw them was really promising. Then you have Bender who is also one of the best CB in the league (but missing in the begining cause of the fecking mess called Olympia). Our Eurochampion Rapha will have a huge impact, think he will help us immidiately just like Bartra. Guys who called our CB "mediocre" have no clue. Its the best beside Buyerns and we not only got 2 decent CB we got deph, too.
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You realize that Bartra is now 25 years old and has never had a regular starting spot?
He has never managed to break into the first 11 of Barca under 4 different coaches; and mind you, CB is arguably the position at Barca which had the least depth and quality over recent years. I've heard Barca fans crying for a CB signing for years, while at the same time rarely crying for more chances and playing time for Bartra.
Why do you think that is?

If you confidently state that he "will be great for you" and treat him like he's not a worry at all as a Hummels replacement, I think you're on really thin ice.
What reason is there to expect that Bartra will be great, other than your wish for him to be great? There's no evidence at all.

I'm not saying that I am absolutely sure he won't be good enough.
But you are taking for granted that the player makes a jump in quality just like that, just because he now gets to play.
I'd say chances are you're actually severely overrating your squad's quality at CB.
 
Sphaero said:
The departure of Ginter was off the table the moment we pulled out of the Toprak negotiations.

We quite simply can´t afford to let another CB leave this window. If Ginter does not finally take the final step this season, he will be probably out the door next Summer, though, especially because Watzke basically confirmed a few days ago that there is already an agreement with Toprak in place for 2017 unless something crazy happens.
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What's up with this guy? Wasn't there a period when he put Piszczek to shame with way he played at right back? Had fantastic goals/assists numbers iirc. Is he so positionally unaware/poor in defence that he can't be your first choice CB or is he just not suited to that role at all? I remember him playing all CB, CDM and RB.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
You realize that Bartra is now 25 years old and has never had a regular starting spot?
He has never managed to break into the first 11 of Barca under 4 different coaches; and mind you, CB is arguably the position at Barca which had the least depth and quality over recent years. I've heard Barca fans crying for a CB signing for years, while at the same time rarely crying for more chances and playing time for Bartra.
Why do you think that is?

If you confidently state that he "will be great for you" and treat him like he's not a worry at all as a Hummels replacement, I think you're on really thin ice.
What reason is there to expect that Bartra will be great, other than your wish for him to be great? There's no evidence at all.

I'm not saying that I am absolutely sure he won't be good enough. But chances are you're actually severely overrating your squad's quality at CB.
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Being in training for years against the likes of Messi,Neymar and co is good for a CB i think. And i take my confidence from what i saw until now from him. A CB of Sokratis and Bartra (in a 2 CB defence) seems to me very promising. Bartra is faster than Hummels, and we struggled a lot from the faults of Hummels in the past.
 
Kostur said:
What's up with this guy? Wasn't there a period when he put Piszczek to shame with way he played at right back? Had fantastic goals/assists numbers iirc. Is he so positionally unaware/poor in defence that he can't be your first choice CB or is he just not suited to that role at all? I remember him playing all CB, CDM and RB.
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Tuchel found a great way of exploiting the narrow defending style of most Bundesliga clubs, by basically building up through the (half-)left areas and then quickly switching play to the right side where Ginter enjoyed plenty of space, because the opposition pulled their bodies to the other side in order to suffocate the attack.
This goal is a bit exemplary of that:

After a couple of weeks teams adjusted and started to keep an eye on the RB, so Ginter's attacking streak dried up a bit. In addition to that Ginter seems to have problems when dealing wiht 1on1s against agile players (not exactly a trivial weakness in a FB) and since the offense was never a problem under Tuchel Piszczek had no trouble taking back his spot.
 
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Bartra is somewhat of a gamble, that´s for sure, but I see little reason for shame in not getting past Pique and Mascherano. Former is in normal form one of the best CB in the world and the latter is probably the most underrated Barca player in my book.

The Spaniards biggest mistake was sticking around so long under a coach who clearly did not rate him. He should have left Barca at least a season earlier and tried his luck in a smaller Club with consistent game time.

He wouldn´t be the first player who simply needs trust and a bit of leniency to make mistakes to really develop. In terms of skill set he fits the bill in what we need and his pre season performances so far look promising. Let´s wait and see.
 
So Max Kruse is on his way to Bremen.......first of all great news for the Spielbank/Casino and restaurants in Bremen.

Either Kruse will learn from his mistakes in the last months or Bremen have made a massive mistake with that transfer.
 
do.ob said:
Tuchel found a great way of exploiting the narrow defending style of most Bundesliga clubs, by basically building up through the (half-)left areas and then quickly switching play to the right side where Ginter enjoyed plenty of space, because the opposition pulled their bodies to the other side in order to suffocate the attack.
This goal is a bit exemplary of that:

After a couple of weeks teams adjusted and started to keep an eye on the RB, so Ginter's attacking streak dried up a bit. In addition to that Ginter seems to have problems when dealing wiht 1on1s against agile players (not exactly a trivial weakness in a FB) and since the offense was never a problem under Tuchel Piszczek had no trouble taking back his spot.
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Oh, that makes sense, thanks for that.

So do you think that he's able to somewhat cement his spot as a CB or CDM at Dortmund or he's just not that good and will either move on or become a squad player more than a starter?
 
Kostur said:
Oh, that makes sense, thanks for that.

So do you think that he's able to somewhat cement his spot as a CB or CDM at Dortmund or he's just not that good and will either move on or become a squad player more than a starter?
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I think it would be a surprise if Ginter was to earn himself a spot as a starter. He lacks pace and robustness to challenge his competitors for the CB spots, and the skillset of full fledged CDM players like Rode, Sahin, Castro and Weigl.
He is a good player, but his level is EL rather than CL
 
Kostur said:
Oh, that makes sense, thanks for that.

So do you think that he's able to somewhat cement his spot as a CB or CDM at Dortmund or he's just not that good and will either move on or become a squad player more than a starter?
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I think he lacks the agility for a midfield spot. If he earns himself a permanent spot (barring injuries of others) it's gonna be as a CB imho, though what I expect is that he will spend the season as a squad player (4th CB, 2nd-4th RB, 3rd-6th CDM) and then move on to an ambitious but smaller club (like maybe Gladbach for example) and Toprak will replace him.
 
do.ob said:
@NYC
You say feck Weigl, he's only 20 years old, then you post a team with a couple of kids in key positions (including Julian fecking Green) and say oh yeah they so gud they'd win the league.
Bayern have very good depth in their squad but you're massively exaggerating.
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I put Green in there by default....

However, Germany and Bayern managed to win the league and do very well with a 20 year Kimmich that was playing league 2 a season prior. Bayern have young kids too that could potentially become relevant players if given chance like Kimmich has become. Unlike Dortmund, the pressure on bayern is immense since winning the league is a given, but pep and company needed to win a treble every season + play good football for it to be consider a good year.

If you guys still had Gundogan, Hummels and Mkit, it would be a stretch, but you don't..
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
So Max Kruse is on his way to Bremen.......first of all great news for the Spielbank/Casino and restaurants in Bremen.

Either Kruse will learn from his mistakes in the last months or Bremen have made a massive mistake with that transfer.
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5th club in his last 6 seasons, what a legend:lol:
It's the first transfer where he has to take a wage cut tho. I hope he does well, it's pathetic how he's been treated by the public despite doing barely anything wrong.
 
Kasper said:
5th club in his last 6 seasons, what a legend:lol:
It's the first transfer where he has to take a wage cut tho. I hope he does well, it's pathetic how he's been treated by the public despite doing barely anything wrong.
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Waht? The thing that he forget thousands of Euros in a taxi after a gamble/poker card game is one thing. But wank in front of youre smartphone-camera and put it in the internet is something else....
 
slig said:
Waht? The thing that he forget thousands of Euros in a taxi after a gamble/poker card game is one thing. But wank in front of youre smartphone-camera and put it in the internet is something else....
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None of these things is wrong. Slightly or very stupid maybe, depending on how you look at it. Then again, sex tapes have started veritable multi million dollar careers.
People should calm down and not get on the wrong side of a BILD smear campaign. Footballers are not paid for their off field intelligence.
 
slig said:
Waht? The thing that he forget thousands of Euros in a taxi after a gamble/poker card game is one thing. But wank in front of youre smartphone-camera and put it in the internet is something else....
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I've heard of a player driving cars for years without having a license. Now that's what I call a danger for the public...
 
2ndTouch said:
I've heard of a player driving cars for years without having a license. Now that's what I call a danger for the public...
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True, there have been far worse offenses by other Bundesliga players, which gotten far less attention and criticism than what Kruse has done. Kruse´s problem was three folded. His confident (in many eyes arrogant) personality, his lesser standing compared to more prominent Football Players and of course the lack of support by his Club. Especially the last point made him the ideal target of a witch hunt, which was started by the Springer press and people loved to jump on the bandwaggon. The whole thing was so blown out of proportion, it is not even funny anymore.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Exactly. Now THAT is wrong.
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A danger for the public is how the Bayrisch Law and Goverment treats a criminal who costs the public multimillions of Euros. Who just give some millions back in order to not telling the whole truth and his complicity. Beside that its dangerous for the society how Buyern deals with a criminal who was in jail (to short), praising and worship him, giving applause for him like he is a superhero.
Wrong is, that while he is in jail, a stupid BFS tells into the camera after the final in the WC, that "nobody would be here without him", thats not only wrong its disgusting and untrue (for a lot of players in the squad).
Yet this redhead,thick criminal is not the only criminal who could work at Buyern without problems, his best friend Rumenigge fraud the tax too and nobody care about at your club for this "elitist" behaviour. This whole behaviour of your club which draws a redline in the club history, thats dangerous!

Reus made a fault, and i dont want to excuse for this, it was crazy and deeply wrong! The difference between the cases is what comes after this and what were the consequences. Reus cannot drive a car anymore, while Hoeness and Rumenigge are in control of millions of euros again and can do what they want, and get praised, and never feel any shame.
 
Sphaero said:
True, there have been far worse offenses by other Bundesliga players, which gotten far less attention and criticism than what Kruse has done. Kruse´s problem was three folded. His confident (in many eyes arrogant) personality, his lesser standing compared to more prominent Football Players and of course the lack of support by his Club. Especially the last point made him the ideal target of a witch hunt, which was started by the Springer press and people loved to jump on the bandwaggon. The whole thing was so blown out of proportion, it is not even funny anymore.
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Maybe his reaction afterwards plays also a role. I agree with you, let him wank and show it if he want, nobody get hurt. But if he have been slicly clever afterwards, it maybe wouldn have come to big. A few good chosen words would have helped a little bit.
 
Oh, ffs, please don´t start derailing this thread with comparisions which Club has the worse people employed. If I want to read that I just go to the dozens of German boards with their toxic atmospheres.

Here is the thing: Every Football Club, especially the big ones have/had black sheeps in their ranks. Let´s talk about Football here, not what they do in their free time.
 
slig said:
Reus made a fault, and i dont want to excuse for this, it was crazy and deeply wrong! The difference between the cases is what comes after this and what were the consequences. Reus cannot drive a car anymore, while Hoeness and Rumenigge are in control of millions of euros again and can do what they want, and get praised, and never feel any shame.
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Any regular citizen would have gone into jail for what Reus has done. His celebrity status is what prevented it. Hoeneß otoh went into jail for his mistakes and paid off everything he owed to the state.
And yet, by slig logic he should be branded as a scumbag for lifetime and publically shunned until the very end, while Reus *made a fault* like humans do sometimes. Talk about bigot double standards...
 
Sphaero said:
True, there have been far worse offenses by other Bundesliga players, which gotten far less attention and criticism than what Kruse has done. Kruse´s problem was three folded. His confident (in many eyes arrogant) personality, his lesser standing compared to more prominent Football Players and of course the lack of support by his Club. Especially the last point made him the ideal target of a witch hunt, which was started by the Springer press and people loved to jump on the bandwaggon. The whole thing was so blown out of proportion, it is not even funny anymore.
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Strange. I used to think Allofs was a terrific DoF, and it can't be denied Wolfsburg did well slightly more consistently for a while since he joined them.

But there has been so many instances of public trouble with players in recent years, clumsy, or straightforward offensive, handlings of internal matter in public. Is it Hecking? Is his man management a problem?
Just last season there was the thing with Dost too, wasn't there, where Hecking admitted himself he shouldn't spoken publicly? I'm sure I'm forgetting other cases too.

As you rightly say, the club should have protected Kruse more towards the public, even if they thought internally he was at fault.
He was targeted by BILD, and the club should be on his side.
You need to be ready and able to shield your players, especially if you sign players who might be prone for stuff with bad publicity potential. I mean they signed Bendtner too ffs :lol:

You can't sign these players if your coach isn't up to handling difficult cases.
It's interesting that Eberl the other day said publicly that he thinks players who are not "perfect son-in-laws", like Kruse, can do a squad good.
But Wolfsburg apparently aren't able to deal with them.

Now there's Schürrle gone, Kruse gone, Dante close to leaving, Naldo gone, Gustavo wanted by Juve and not exactly pledging eternal loyalty. The Draxler case cannot take a good ending for VWolfsburg even if they force him to stay (which should be something to comtemplate after this dick move of running to BILD)
At this moment, it looks like they are unraveling completely.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Now there's Schürrle gone, Kruse gone, Dante close to leaving, Naldo gone, Gustavo wanted by Juve and not exactly pledging eternal loyalty. The Draxler case cannot take a good ending for VWolfsburg even if they force him to stay (which should be something to comtemplate after this dick move of running to BILD)
At this moment, it looks like they are unraveling completely.
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That is what you are getting for midtable finish with a squad full of players with CL ambitions. Simple as that.
 
slig said:
Waht? The thing that he forget thousands of Euros in a taxi after a gamble/poker card game is one thing. But wank in front of youre smartphone-camera and put it in the internet is something else....
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What? Are we leaving in the dark ages or is the bundesliga now played in Saudi Arabia? Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with what he did, the only jerk was the person who decided to share that video online against his will. The fact that a 20 second video of someone wanking is worth such an outcry is more an example of how prudish the football business still is. Everyone wants boring flawless paragons.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Strange. I used to think Allofs was a terrific DoF, and it can't be denied Wolfsburg did well slightly more consistently for a while since he joined them.

But there has been so many instances of public trouble with players in recent years, clumsy, or straightforward offensive, handlings of internal matter in public. Is it Hecking? Is his man management a problem?
Just last season there was the thing with Dost too, wasn't there, where Hecking admitted himself he shouldn't spoken publicly? I'm sure I'm forgetting other cases too.

As you rightly say, the club should have protected Kruse more towards the public, even if they thought internally he was at fault.
He was targeted by BILD, and the club should be on his side.
You need to be ready and able to shield your players, especially if you sign players who might be prone for stuff with bad publicity potential. I mean they signed Bendtner too ffs :lol:

You can't sign these players if your coach isn't up to handling difficult cases.
It's interesting that Eberl the other day said publicly that he thinks players who are not "perfect son-in-laws", like Kruse, can do a squad good.
But Wolfsburg apparently aren't able to deal with them.

Now there's Schürrle gone, Kruse gone, Dante close to leaving, Naldo gone, Gustavo wanted by Juve and not exactly pledging eternal loyalty. The Draxler case cannot take a good ending for VWolfsburg even if they force him to stay (which should be something to comtemplate after this dick move of running to BILD)
At this moment, it looks like they are unraveling completely.
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Like i've said in another thread.....Wolfsburg are a freak show in the last months and all members of the club (Allofs, Hecking and players) are playing wonderful their roles.

Hecking:
Bad mistakes on the pitch and off the pitch last season.....a bad start to the season and he'll be the first "Bauernopfer".

Allofs:
I agree with you that he's actually a very good DoF but he must learn from his mistakes in the last months and correct fast this mistakes over the next months......his Galactico transfer policy was a disaster, the situation with Kruse was handled badly and only bollocks comes out of his mouth in the last months.

And if even a player like Naldo says something like that then you know there is a lot wrong at the club.

Players
I don't think Wolfsburg as club, the Wolfsburg fans and all other neutral people can blame the players that they want to leave the club because Wolfsburg were always only a stepping stone for them and now they don't even have european football.

Dante will stay at least till January to get his german passport.
But yeah Naldo, Schürrle & Kruse are gone, it's very unlikely that Luis Gustavo, Draxler, Rodriguez & Dost are staying and there also rumours about Benaglio & Vieirinha.
 
Rodriguez is another case. He pretty much publicly declared he was ready to leave, then after the clause had expired Allofs commented publicly too, along the lines that he was suprised Rodriguez was not gone yet, and that apparently RicRod had "misjudged the market situation" AKA overrated his own attractiveness.

Not sure whether this is something a DoF should be talking about publicly.
Then again, Rummenigge :wenger:
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Rodriguez is another case. He pretty much publicly declared he was ready to leave, then after the clause had expired Allofs commented publicly too, along the lines that he was suprised Rodriguez was not gone yet, and that apparently RicRod had "misjudged the market situation" AKA overrated his own attractiveness.

Not sure whether this is something a DoF should be talking about publicly.
Then again, Rummenigge :wenger:
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He plays a different role to be fair and as CEO it seems to be part of the job description to occasionally make snarky, controversial and slightly populistic statements to give the press something to write about and turn their attention towards themselves and away from the team and coaches.

As for Wolfsburg and Allofs, I did not rate the latter for quite a while now, even before he came to Wolfsburg. His last years at Bremen were also not that stellar and especially in terms of man management he should have done better and urge his coach to keep his mouth shut more often towards the press. The way they handles the whole Kruse debacle was downright pathethic. I have rarely seen a club throw one of their players under the bus that quickly to cover their own asses.

They also did themselves no favours with that IMO. Players might think twice about staying with/joining them when they see how they get treated when it gets tough. It is not like Wolfsburg as club is that attractive anyway outside of a good salary. How things can go downwards quickly is perfectly visible right now. One poor season and nearly the whole team breaks apart.

Most of the German football fans won´t be sad to see them fall down to the mid-table obscurity. They will rather thank the guy above that the club is still run by idiots. God knows what they could have archived with a management like the ones of Bayern, Dortmund or Leverkusen.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Dante will stay at least till January to get his german passport.
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I thought he already has it. He signed with Gladbach end of September 2008 and started to play for them January 2009. So he already finished the necessary 7 years in January 2016.
 
Sphaero said:
Oh, ffs, please don´t start derailing this thread with comparisions which Club has the worse people employed. If I want to read that I just go to the dozens of German boards with their toxic atmospheres.

Here is the thing: Every Football Club, especially the big ones have/had black sheeps in their ranks. Let´s talk about Football here, not what they do in their free time.
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I like this post so hard, I think a like will materialize in your profile page in a few hours by the intensity of my pure liking. Thank you.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Then again, Rummenigge :wenger:
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What's wrong about Kalle? If anything I'd reproach him for having gone too soft in the past 12-24 months. Smug Kalle is best Kalle. I miss his little outrage causing quips:(
 
To noone's surprise, Rummenigge hinted that Bayern are very likely to buy Kingsley Coman.
Also they will try to extend with Lewandowski, raised wages and all.
 
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Still think that BVB made a massive blunder by re-signing Götze.

I'd be glad to be proven wrong as I bear him no ill will; and he wasn't always bad for us, he had some very decent spells, each time cut short by injury.

But I can't shake the feeling he'll never be a true top player, and with the great expectations at BVB, as well as the microscope he's under, I can see him flopping hard.

Schürrle flopping is quite a probability too. Risky moves.
 
GhastlyHun said:
To noone's surprise, Rummenigge hinted that Bayern are very likely to buy Kingsley Coman.
Also they will try to extend with Lewandowski, raised wages and all.
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Didn't he extent just few months ago?
 
BVB: Bürki, Passlack, Sokratis, Bartra, Schmelzer, Castro, Rode, Dembele, Kagawa, Ramos, Aubameyang
Subs: Weidenfeller, Mor, Götze, Schürrle, Weigl, Guerreiro, Piszczek

FCB: Neuer, Lahm, Martinez, Hummels, Alaba, Vidal, Alonso, Thiago, Müller, Lewandowski, Ribéry
 
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I'm extremely interested in seeing how Dembele and Weigl do this season. Looking forward to tonight's match.
Can any Dortmund fans tell me what they think of Weigl? I watched him quite a bit last season and honestly can't find any glaring weaknesses in his game so far.
Is there anything that stands out that he needs to improve? Does anyone have any specific concerns about his role, game-time and potential performances this season? I noticed so far in pre-season that he hasn't started many games (maybe only one if I'm not mistaken) surely due to his involvement in the Euros, but is he nailed on to be a regular starter as the season continues?
 
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