Is Rode even on the pitch?
Bundesliga 2016/17
- Thread starter Piratesoup
- Start date
Tuchel appears to be raging nonstop, doesn't look very healthy 
Even money can't buy you a golden generation. We'll always be up there and the team to beat, but it'll be like it usually was: Us winning the title every other year with at least one team giving us a serious challenge
I'm pretty pleased with our performance so far, especially the midfield looks loads better than in the cup and in the last pre-season games. Losing in Dortmund was always on the cards, but I hope we can sneak a goal (and maybe a point) in the second half.
Dammit
Great chance to go 2-0 up there v Schalke
Even a FUSSBALLGOTT can miss a pen
Great chance to go 2-0 up there v Schalke
Even a FUSSBALLGOTT can miss a pen
I find it hilarious that 25 years after West German clubs fleeced East German teams for basically everything that was worth something, they now feel threatened by a super-capitalistic monster created right in the heart of what used to be East Germany. Those complaining fans certainly had no problem when their teams were the ones using financial advantages to kill off clubs with large followings.
I'm pretty sure there would be no RB Leipzig if traditional power houses like Dynamo Dresden, Lokomotive Leipzig, Magdeburg or even Dynamo Berlin had been allowed to thrive. This is also the reason why I believe this Leipzig project has a much better chance to succeed than Hoffenheim. The die-hard local fans may scoff at this artifical club but RB will easily fill their stadium and with no succesful teams in the vicinity they're set to increase their amount of fans as they manage to establish themselves as a Bundesliga team.
I'm not so sure about them threatening Bayern or even Dortmund though. If they keep up this silly policy of only buying U23 players they won't be able to get to the very top.
On another note I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to reach the Champions League before RB Salzburg though.
Allowed to thrive? They never had the potential. Like all of eastern Germany, they were badly managed, lacked infrastructure and general competetivness. They were bound to fail.
Onisiwo
...and it probably cost us a point. Oh well, good performance and a 2-1 defeat away to Dortmund isn't the worst thing in the world.
...and it probably cost us a point. Oh well, good performance and a 2-1 defeat away to Dortmund isn't the worst thing in the world.
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Dortmund with a 2-1 win.
Besides Leiceister name a champion which won the league in the past 10 years, which is not United or a suggar daddy club.
Though if i remember correctly, even Leicester has a suggar daddy, no?
You absolutely didn't get my point.
Our league was competitive before sugar daddies even arrived, hence my point is that we didn't need sugar daddies to make our league competitive. The sugar daddies have simply changed some of the teams that are challenging for the top.
Even those who are serious don't deserve to be taken seriously. Some of it is probably a bit of jealousy because you are amongst the top 3 clubs in the world, right behind Barcelona and Real Madrid and we are going through one of the roughest stretches in many years. Nevertheless, your domestic dominance is unique and for outsiders who are simply interested in the title race, it can seem boring.
That doesn't mean that the football being played by other teams is poor. Dortmund in particular is loved by many here and there are many players from other teams that some here desperately want to see in a United shirt.
Gladbach is so much better than Schalke, it´s not even funny.
United has won 13 titles since the introduction of the EPL. Bayern has won 14 over the same timeframe. Bundesliga had six different champions, so has the Premier League. The differences are staggering.
His point was: The Premier League is only competitive because of sugar daddies. I said it was always competitive. Sure, we've had a year such as 99/00, but overall it is always a close race up top with several different teams. Teams such as Newcastle, Blackburn and Liverpool were once up there instead of City or Tottenham.
I'm not the one who says the Bundesliga is boring. In fact, it was once one of the most interesting leagues because you had random champions such as Stuttgart or even Bremen IIRC.
But right now, Bayern is having a historic spell and for three of the last four years has completely dominated the Bundesliga while winning in all four of them, so of course people will say it's boring if they are an objective observer that is only interested in the title race.
Which clubs are expected to compete with Dortmund this season to be Bridesmaid?
So apparently Schürrle had a hand in 14 out of 17 shots from Dortmund by setting up and taking himself 7 each, he also won 67% of his duels assisted the 1:0 and he was the one who got fouled for the penalty that led to the 2:0.
Maybe I was too early to question his signing and Tuchel can really get him to a much higher level..
Maybe I was too early to question his signing and Tuchel can really get him to a much higher level..
He was pretty brilliant under Tuchel back then at Mainz, too
Unfortunately I couldn't watch Gladbach's win against Leverkusen today. Can anybody tell me how the game went?
Very open, high energy, high tempo game with lots of chances actually. The first 60 minutes were quite even. A good game for neutrals. I didn't see the last 30 minutes though.
Thanks!Very open, high energy, high tempo game with lots of chances actually. The first 60 minutes were quite even. A good game for neutrals. I didn't see the last 30 minutes though.
Yeah, it was a brilliant game to watch. Exciting throughout and I'm happy that Gladbach got the win in the end.
Is Hernandez injured?
He broke his hand while falling down the stairs. He should be back after the international break.
Yes. Broke his arm after falling down the stairs.
cheers
Schalke
I actually just lost 20€ yesterday because of Schalke.
Schalke should give Schöpf a chance really to start a few matches in a row.
I think the problem is that once you make the claim that the Bundesliga is a weak league, you're diminishing the effort Bayern has to put in to win it. That's why you have these Bayern lads freak out over such statements. Now, I'm a Bayern fan myself, but I think we need to acknowledge that the league is a bit of a joke right now. I used to say Team X is our main contender, but I was always worried about some freak league performance by some of the middle teams. I'm not worried about them anymore. If you took Bayern as the Benchmark, probably anyone outside the top ten should be relegated by merits. The only club that I see as competition are Dortmund... and make no mistake, they're gaining distance to the rest of the league as well. Give this pair a couple more years like this and we'll have a carbon copy of la liga.
So yes, the discussion is a bit pointless. But the reason why people are upset is because it feels like people are having a shot at Bayern. Kinda like "Your league is so easy, it's not an accomplishment to do well in Europe with all these friendlies to prepare you for it."
Also, let's all pray that Bremen and Hamburg are properly relegated this year. They have such massive managerial problems, they need a harsh reality check in 2nd division to wake up and stop half assing their way through the league for decades.
@Lagger
Hamburg may not be the best run club, but imho they have really improved over the past couple of years. This year's transfer window especially doesn't look bad at all imho. They've offloaded a lot of mediocre old players who were getting them nowhere and brought in a couple of young and talented players.
Hamburg may not be the best run club, but imho they have really improved over the past couple of years. This year's transfer window especially doesn't look bad at all imho. They've offloaded a lot of mediocre old players who were getting them nowhere and brought in a couple of young and talented players.
If you think this here is 'Bayern lads freaking out', you haven't witnessed what happens when our neighbouring village has stolen our maypole.
Doesn't happen if you guard it properly though
Raphael Guerreiro seems to be a cracking player by the way. Makes few mistakes, plays with his brain, pacey.
Of course, but Bayern has been very successful in Europe as well and many here still acknowledge the qualities of Bayern (at least until Rummenigge starts talking about other club's business'
). Hence, I don't think anybody wants to (or can) seriously diminish the success of Bayern in the last few years. People are more so intent on diminishing the Bundesliga itself and here it is hard to really draw a conclusion. I think Bayern has reached a level of domestic dominance under Pep that they hadn't been on before. They were always the favorites to win the title, but in the past few years there was never once a doubt about them hoisting the trophy at the end of the season. This will obviously make the other Bundesliga clubs look worse than they are.
I think if you compare it to the PL, Bayern is the strongest club out of all of them at the moment, with Dortmund being a notch under City and the current United, perhaps Chelsea too, but then you could easily slot them in on a level with Arsenal and Tottenham. Then you have the likes of Leverkusen and Moenchengladbach, who are respectable clubs as well and could be top-6 in England. At the same time, I think a club such as Liverpool would have an easier time to reach the CL spots in Germany because there isn't as much strong competition for these places.
That's when perhaps the differences in quality show the most, amongst the non-European spots. Even before the TV money, I always felt the mid-table to lower-table teams in the PL were harder to play than those in the BL.
One could argue that Bayern would beat them all regardless and it's hard to compare because these teams don't compete on an international level, but yeah, these games seem to be more of a challenge for PL squads.
Overall though, one thing that I've always wondered about is why no other BL team (outside of Dortmund now) really becomes a consistent, growing force. There always seem to be teams on the rise but they can't take that final step and actually take a step backwards at some point.
That is actually quite simple. With the laws of the league (mostly the 50+1 rule) in place, there are only a handful of clubs with the necessary growth potential to organically grow into a national top club and a relevant club in Europe. Aside Bayern, there are only three clubs in Gernamy with prime circumstances: Dortmund, Schalke and Hamburg. Only one of these clubs was consistently well managed in the last decade.
Clubs like Leverkusen and Gladbach are actually very well run and backed up by good performances on the pitch in the last years. but simply lack key components to make the necessary development jumps on our level.
For Leverkusen, the bond with the Bayer company has become more of a burden than a help. 30 Mil. € annualy used to be a massive sum, but by now it is simply not that much anymore (Bayern gets that much from their shirt sponsor alone, we get more than that from the shirt sponsor+ stadium naming rights combined) and at the same time makes them unattractive for other sponsors. Another thing is that they simply don´t have much recognition and reputation. The first thing about them that comes to mind is their tendency to bottle things, but overall there are simply not many people who care a lot about them.
Gladbach is in a bit of a better spot because of their rich history, but overall still lack a bit in supporter numbers. They are not based in a huge international city like Hamburg and don´t have something, that makes them stand out from the masses (Schalke´s "Knappenschmiede" or our "Yellow Wall").
On the league issue, the quality of a league is not entirely based on competition for top spot which the glory hunters appear to only base a league on.
Whilst Bayern are clearly dominant at the moment (although I do think BD will run them close this year without the need for EL football imposing sunday matches), there are other factors which determine the quality of a league.
1 - The quality of the football.
2 - Are there battles for Champions League spots? In Germany there are usually a number of teams vying for third/fourth spots. In England it''s traditionally been the same teams as the top teams have huge resources provided by sugar daddies.
3 - Are there battles for the Europa League spots? . . . Now I know the EPL suggar daddy crowd have no respect for the EL as there's not enough money in it, but this is not the case across Europe including La Liga (the most successful league in Europe).
4 - The quality of the relegation battle. Is it a genuine battle? In England & Germany this is usually the case.
5 - Ownership of the clubs - No competition there. The fans have powerful voices in Germany & Spain, whereas they're largely irrelevant in England for the bigger clubs.
6 - The matchday experience. Have been to matches in England, Spain, Italy & Germany. All have their own unique selling points.
7 - The quality of the stadiums.
8 - Is the television money evenly distributed? In Spain half of this money has been traditionally divided between two clubs. . . Guess who?
9 - The ability of the league to attract big players. Largely related to money here, but the EPL does quite well out of this especially on account of the recent TV deal.
10 - The ability of the league to produce homegrown stars. In 2010 all of the German squad that went to South Africa played in the Bundesliga with that team growing up to go and win the WC in Brazil
So it ain't as simple, or as idiotic, as looking at a one off result with Bayern beating a desperate Bremen 6-0, and then deciding "that league is . . . . "
Bayern may be superb now. . .But remember five years ago they sacked Louis Van Gaal because it looked as if he was going to miss out on a Champions LEague spot.
Things change in football.
Whilst Bayern are clearly dominant at the moment (although I do think BD will run them close this year without the need for EL football imposing sunday matches), there are other factors which determine the quality of a league.
1 - The quality of the football.
2 - Are there battles for Champions League spots? In Germany there are usually a number of teams vying for third/fourth spots. In England it''s traditionally been the same teams as the top teams have huge resources provided by sugar daddies.
3 - Are there battles for the Europa League spots? . . . Now I know the EPL suggar daddy crowd have no respect for the EL as there's not enough money in it, but this is not the case across Europe including La Liga (the most successful league in Europe).
4 - The quality of the relegation battle. Is it a genuine battle? In England & Germany this is usually the case.
5 - Ownership of the clubs - No competition there. The fans have powerful voices in Germany & Spain, whereas they're largely irrelevant in England for the bigger clubs.
6 - The matchday experience. Have been to matches in England, Spain, Italy & Germany. All have their own unique selling points.
7 - The quality of the stadiums.
8 - Is the television money evenly distributed? In Spain half of this money has been traditionally divided between two clubs. . . Guess who?
9 - The ability of the league to attract big players. Largely related to money here, but the EPL does quite well out of this especially on account of the recent TV deal.
10 - The ability of the league to produce homegrown stars. In 2010 all of the German squad that went to South Africa played in the Bundesliga with that team growing up to go and win the WC in Brazil
So it ain't as simple, or as idiotic, as looking at a one off result with Bayern beating a desperate Bremen 6-0, and then deciding "that league is . . . . "
Bayern may be superb now. . .But remember five years ago they sacked Louis Van Gaal because it looked as if he was going to miss out on a Champions LEague spot.
Things change in football.
http://www.sport1.de/fussball/bunde...hard-rauball-erschrocken-von-eroeffnungsspiel
The president of the DFL wasn't happy with the boring opening match of the season and Bayern Munich could lose the opening match of the season in the future.
Bayern Munich would probably still win but maybe they should start the opening match of the season away from home...........Schalke vs Bayern Munich or Leverkusen vs Bayern Munich.
The president of the DFL wasn't happy with the boring opening match of the season and Bayern Munich could lose the opening match of the season in the future.
Bayern Munich would probably still win but maybe they should start the opening match of the season away from home...........Schalke vs Bayern Munich or Leverkusen vs Bayern Munich.
Completely agree with @Sphaero.
No matter how good your work is in every other department of running the club, the economic potential is what matters in the end. Replacing key players with cheaper ones is a damn tricky business. So keeping the standard is difficult enough under these circumstances and continually making small steps forward is quite a success actually.
Look at Gladbach for example: They developed & lost Reus, Dante, Ter Stegen and Xhaka over the last few years (Kruse can be counted too, Kramer in part). They'll eventually lose Christensen and Dahoud too, if those player's development continues as expected. You could have built something close to a European top team similar around these players, especially when combined with Lucien Favre's coaching skills. That shows how excellent the work of DOS Eberl and Favre (& now Schubert) was. But it was impossible to have all those players in the squad at the same time.
So the lack of an outstanding economic growth potential produces unavoidable setbacks in building a team that make a continuous development beyond a certain point impossible.
@Sean_RedDevil
You forgot the best part: "During the game I thought about who could play the opening match next season. Maybe Dortmund, but the question would be who should be their opponent?"
I'm still not sure what he wants to say with that. Does he want to change the rules so the last year's champion doesn't play the first game of the season or does he just want Dortmund to win the league this year?
You forgot the best part: "During the game I thought about who could play the opening match next season. Maybe Dortmund, but the question would be who should be their opponent?"
I'm still not sure what he wants to say with that. Does he want to change the rules so the last year's champion doesn't play the first game of the season or does he just want Dortmund to win the league this year?
Rauball is yellow-black bellend who loves bitching about us. The opening game was superb. I enjoyed it a lot
Maybe you should add that Rauball is ex-president of Dortmund...
Bremen was shocking - but it had a lot of goals and showed some good combinations etc.
I am not so sure if a very tactical 0:0 would be a better advertising...
@Synco
But that is the problem of any club in Europe that is not one of the top clubs. For the best player it usually is just a stepstone.
I very much doubt that. Not because BL teams are better as such, but because most of them are specialized in reactive tactics. That makes them pretty hard to play against as a top side, while the open PL style helps the attacking team with superior players a lot. Most BL teams just aren't very good in possession though (which makes many BL games hard to watch), so I don't feel their overall level is that great.
So my take on that BL/PL comparison (sorry @PedroMendez
) is that Bundesliga teams below Bayern haven't necessarily been better than comparable PL sides. Without checking it, I guess the results in direct encounters in the Europa League would probably support that view. But they did manage to keep themselves on a similar level so far, which they shouldn't, because of the huge difference in wealth.Of course, I just wanted to give Gladbach as an example for the fact that even the best imaginable performance in the sporting sector is only secondary to the factors @Sphaero described.
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