Bundesliga title race is an absolute joke.
Bundesliga 2016/17
- Thread starter Piratesoup
- Start date
Ingolstadt is run with a tiny budget, Audi's financial involvement is minimal. The reason people dislike them, is their football(while effective) causing serious brain damage to those watching it.
I don't dislike RasenBall, even though Rangnick talks a lot of bull(no pun intended). Their business model aims for sustainability. As long as they don't come up with some shady overgrown shirt sponsoring deals to circumvent FFP, it's fine by me.
Our former communist brethren deserve a BuLi club, and without financial input from outside, we'd have to wait decades for this to happen.
So, welcome RasenBall. That term cracks me up every time
We should use it all the time when talking about them.Yeah, because you find BuLi fans constantly invading PL and La Liga threads and telling folks over there what a joke their leagues are. BuLi fans also love to make "The relative strength of the BuLi"-threads, too. Oh wait...
It's pretty disingenuous of you to try getting the spanish league on your side of things, when the same people shitting up our league thread tend to do the same towards La Liga.
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I find it hilarious that 25 years after West German clubs fleeced East German teams for basically everything that was worth something, they now feel threatened by a super-capitalistic monster created right in the heart of what used to be East Germany. Those complaining fans certainly had no problem when their teams were the ones using financial advantages to kill off clubs with large followings.
I'm pretty sure there would be no RB Leipzig if traditional power houses like Dynamo Dresden, Lokomotive Leipzig, Magdeburg or even Dynamo Berlin had been allowed to thrive. This is also the reason why I believe this Leipzig project has a much better chance to succeed than Hoffenheim. The die-hard local fans may scoff at this artifical club but RB will easily fill their stadium and with no succesful teams in the vicinity they're set to increase their amount of fans as they manage to establish themselves as a Bundesliga team.
I'm not so sure about them threatening Bayern or even Dortmund though. If they keep up this silly policy of only buying U23 players they won't be able to get to the very top.
On another note I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to reach the Champions League before RB Salzburg though.
Oh please, Erich. It's been 25 years now... More than enough time for plenty of clubs to get promoted to Bundesliga from nothing or even establish themselves.
To me it's an artifical club.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc...chen-fussballverein-und-autokonzern-1.1810348
Even I as a Bayern fan wouldn't have anything against it. There are no regulations in our league that would forbid good management in other clubs. Our market is big enough for than one top dog.
What most people don't want in our league, though, are lottery winners, hence the strong reaction towards clubs like RasenBall.
Btw, the caf doesn't seem to like that aspect of clubs like City or Chelsea either. And despite the influx of money, how many *real* potential title contenders does the PL actually have?
If I count that right, it's 3: Utd, City and Chelsea. So, that's one more than our league, and on par with La Liga.
I guess Schöpf will drop out of the XI as soon as Meyer is back and Embolo might stay in it. Bentaleb and Stambouli are some good additions but the key should be Weinzierl and Heidel. Little setback with Coke´s injury because Weinzierls game is heavily based on strong wing defenders and i can see baba repeating his augsburg season. So GK+Defensive (i guess caicara will start instead of riether) is really one the best in the bundesliga and the defensive midfield with geis/goretzka/bentaleb/stambouli as well. For me the question ist the attack, Hunter needs to stay fit and in form and Embolo also has to hit grounds for them to have a succesfull season. In the end they may battle for the cl spot with bayer (should be better) and gladbach, while bvb and bayern should be out of reach if nothing weird happens
If it's that easy then why has nobody managed to do it?
Besides you missed my point. It's always been big fish eat little fish and now that the big fish are exposed to a shark they cry foul. And I fail to see the difference between Leipzig's spending habits and what Hamburg has been doing this off-season. Both spend big amounts of money they've been gifted by excentric rich men who want them to succeed.
The main problem I have with Leipzig is how they use other RB clubs to shuffle players back and forth in order to circumvent financial restrictions. That's cheating to me.
But that doesn't necessarily make it better for me. Including Embolo either means playing 442 (
) and relegating Meyer to the wings where he's ineffective or fielding Embolo in midfield and from what I've seen of him he simply lacks the technique to be a good player there.Schalke's defense is good but not mind blowing. Gladbach seem to have plenty of decent/good CBs too and their full back options aren't bad either, Leverkusen I'd say are actually stacked at the CB position atm, though they might be a bit weak at FBs until Wendell (too many mistakes) and Henrichs (still at the beginning of his career)mature.
Goretzka I actually rate quite highly, though I think he might be a bit injury prone. Geis had a rather disappointing debut season for Schalke, he might still be a decent player, but imho he lacks the technique and agility to be a top player. Stambouli and Bentaleb are basically Tottenham rejects, they look like they might be decent additions for depth but I don't see how they elevate Schalke's midfield other than that.
Gladbach for example have a very good first set of CMs in Dahoud and Kramer on paper, I think their problem will be depth more than anything.
Leverkusen have the best CM lineup out of the three imho. Bender is a pretty good DM and Baumgartlinger looks like a great backup and the more attacking role seems well covered too with Kampl and Aranguiz.
Cottbus and Rostock actually managed to play several BL seasons. Why for example Dresden, despite having a rather large and loyal following, can't even manage to stay in the second division for longer periods I can't tell you, maybe it's bad management.
And first of all I don't know many fans who think that Kühne's involvement at Hamburg is a great thing and secondly Kühne vs Leipzig are completely different things:
Kühne's involvement is very much above board, he bought himself some shares at Hamburg and from time to time hands out favourable loans to the club.
But if I'm not completely mistaken he wields no direct power at Hamburg (aside from one position on the board I assume), he can't make demands, he can't dictate club policy, he can't take any money out of the club. The club's officials can always tell him "no, feck off".
It appears in complete accordance with 50+1.
Leipzig however make a mockery of said rule, especially with their membership structure.
I very much doubt that they can do anything that isn't sanctioned by Red Bull. And circumventing rules that the other clubs have to play by is precisely my definition of cheating.
My outlook on them would be less harsh if they were doing their thing in England where everyone can sell their soul.
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But that doesn't necessarily make it better for me. Including Embolo either means playing 442 (
Schalke's defense is good but not mind blowing. Gladbach seem to have plenty of decent/good CBs too and their full back options aren't bad either, Leverkusen I'd say are actually stacked at the CB position atm, though they might be a bit weak at FBs until Wendell (too many mistakes) and Henrichs (still at the beginning of his career)mature.
Goretzka I actually rate quite highly, though I think he might be a bit injury prone. Geis had a rather disappointing debut season for Schalke, he might still be a decent player, but imho he lacks the technique and agility to be a top player. Stambouli and Bentaleb are basically Tottenham rejects, they look like they might be decent additions for depth but I don't see how they elevate Schalke's midfield other than that.
Gladbach for example have a very good first set of CMs in Dahoud and Kramer on paper, I think their problem will be depth more than anything.
Leverkusen have the best CM lineup out of the three imho. Bender is a pretty good DM and Baumgartlinger looks like a great backup and the more attacking role seems well covered too with Kampl and Aranguiz.
Benders had injury issues though so getting him on the pitch is a challenge.
Also this thread has been a terrible dick waving contest. Dortmund will give Bayern a real run for their money but ultimately I think they'll lack leaders when it really matters.
I find it hilarious that 25 years after West German clubs fleeced East German teams for basically everything that was worth something, they now feel threatened by a super-capitalistic monster created right in the heart of what used to be East Germany. Those complaining fans certainly had no problem when their teams were the ones using financial advantages to kill off clubs with large followings.
I'm pretty sure there would be no RB Leipzig if traditional power houses like Dynamo Dresden, Lokomotive Leipzig, Magdeburg or even Dynamo Berlin had been allowed to thrive. This is also the reason why I believe this Leipzig project has a much better chance to succeed than Hoffenheim. The die-hard local fans may scoff at this artifical club but RB will easily fill their stadium and with no succesful teams in the vicinity they're set to increase their amount of fans as they manage to establish themselves as a Bundesliga team.
I'm not so sure about them threatening Bayern or even Dortmund though. If they keep up this silly policy of only buying U23 players they won't be able to get to the very top.
On another note I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to reach the Champions League before RB Salzburg though.
You really got a point. Wise post.
A league competition is mainly about consistency. Leaders aren't a big factor in that, they are important for knock-out competitions. Dortmund has a deeper squad than we do, they can rotate more, especially if you consider the large amount of very injury prone players in our squad.
This could very well give them an advantage in such a battle of attrition, even moreso late in the season and with us potentially making it far in the CL again.
Last season was his first really long injury.
Yes, Cottbus and Rostock who (just like Union Berlin) were underdogs in the old GDR days...the transition may have been easier for clubs who weren't that large to begin with.
And I still wouldn't call any of these clubs established Bundesliga teams. They managed to hang around for a few seasons but are currently 3rd and 4th league teams, hardly something worth bragging about.
The Hamburg vs. Leipzig thing is a matter of perspective and taste. Making a mockery of 50+1 seems trivial when the rule itself has become a joke. Leipzig is just doing a more extreme version of what other teams have been doing for a while, some more obvious than others.
Kühne does dictate club policy to a certain extent. I do believe he's allowed to veto transfer ideas if they want to use his money.
And he's basically kept them alive the last couple of years, they would have become insolvent without his aid. Do you really believe he doesn't wield power? That's the thing, regardless of whether or not this officially satisfies 50+1 rules they depend on him and can definitely not tell him to go away if they don't like him anymore.
I mainly see Leipzig as a wake-up call. The old rules don't reflect our modern times and people have been breaking them for quite some time. There needs to be an update on what is allowed and what isn't because right now there are way too many exceptions and loopholes.
But that doesn't necessarily make it better for me. Including Embolo either means playing 442 (
Schalke's defense is good but not mind blowing. Gladbach seem to have plenty of decent/good CBs too and their full back options aren't bad either, Leverkusen I'd say are actually stacked at the CB position atm, though they might be a bit weak at FBs until Wendell (too many mistakes) and Henrichs (still at the beginning of his career)mature.
Goretzka I actually rate quite highly, though I think he might be a bit injury prone. Geis had a rather disappointing debut season for Schalke, he might still be a decent player, but imho he lacks the technique and agility to be a top player. Stambouli and Bentaleb are basically Tottenham rejects, they look like they might be decent additions for depth but I don't see how they elevate Schalke's midfield other than that.
Gladbach for example have a very good first set of CMs in Dahoud and Kramer on paper, I think their problem will be depth more than anything.
Leverkusen have the best CM lineup out of the three imho. Bender is a pretty good DM and Baumgartlinger looks like a great backup and the more attacking role seems well covered too with Kampl and Aranguiz.
Thought more of embolo playing a wing role like emcm on the other side. He saw plenty of time together with huntelaar in the preseason games. Gladbachs CBs may have more potential but at the moment i think höwedes+naldo still ist better then them. As well as Fährmann outperforms Sommer.
Leverkusen as some issues at FB but Toprak+Tah+Dragovic is real class true. For CM i believe we will see a pairing of kampl and aranguiz quite often. I´m really excited to see aranguiz this season, potential breakout season for him at bayer. Still as i said before it´s an open race for the cl spots with Bayer being in favour and Schalke and Gladbach looking even to me
Leverkusen lack a brain in their midfield, and for that reason they have to resort to reactive football. They are still leaps and bounds above Schalke, of course. Gladbach has more quality than Schalke, too.
Aranguiz has looked class for Chile both in the 2014 WC and Copa America's. Should be a cracking player for Leverkusen.
I'm pretty curious to see how Aranguiz will do now that he has finally 'arrived'.
And where is the penetration gonna come from? With EMCM+Embolo you basically have two strikers on the wings and on top of that you have the static Huntelaar upfront who won't help at all. Teams will just sit back and chuckle while they watch their toothless attempts at creating something.
Well i expect that, similiar to augsburg with weinzierl, at least one of emcm or embolo will shift to the middle quite often. The corresponding FB always played extremley offensive on one side and the counterpart moved back so it was more like an asymmetric 3-5-2. But thats only a guess from me considering Weinzierl at augsburg and the formations in their preseason.
Yet even if we only count those 3 as contenders, they'll still lose games against the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs. On any given day any of those 6 teams can take points from each other.
The gap in quality just is nowhere near as large as it is in the BuLi between Bayern and the rest.
That gap is due to us being on an all-time high. We've never been that good before, thanks to a large number of incredible home-grown players(Lahm, Schweinsteiger,Müller,Alaba,Kroos) and some bullseye signings(Neuer,Boateng,Ribery,Robben) who propelled us through the roof from 2012 on.
We pretty much experience our own class of '92 here. Once we have to replace all these guys, we're likely to drop down to non-godly levels again.
I have to laugh at this "My EPL is better than your BL" juvenlile crap.
Can't we just enjoy both with La Liga or any other league you're interested in?
The posters espousing such views tend to have very short memories. Before 2003, Chelsea were a journey mans team with few finances who reached the odd cup final here and there. Certainly no history of winning things. Then a billionaire arrives with money from dodgy Russian dealings and hey presto . . . They're winning leagues.
Ditto for Man City. . Losing 8-1 to Middlesbrough in 2008. . . Along comes the Thai Billionaire . . . Who then sells out to other Arab Billionaires
Leicester City similar
MUFC are controlled by financiers who, whilst known for having vast debt, are using the vastness of the clubs Empires as liquidity for other investments.
You'd think all of this money ifrom abroad would provide cheaper match tickets in England. . . Nothing of the sort - A Chelsea fan would get a season ticket in Germany for two Chelsea matches.
The EPL is an entertaining billionaires playground. Sure the fans are welcome but they're increasingly not as important as they think they are.
Thank God all of this is protected to a huge extent in the Bundesliga. If you want to moan about Bayern being ever successful then consider that MUFC are no where near them in terms of success in Europe at present.
Now if you don't mind, I'm off to watch Frankfurt beat Schalke. G'luck.
Can't we just enjoy both with La Liga or any other league you're interested in?
The posters espousing such views tend to have very short memories. Before 2003, Chelsea were a journey mans team with few finances who reached the odd cup final here and there. Certainly no history of winning things. Then a billionaire arrives with money from dodgy Russian dealings and hey presto . . . They're winning leagues.
Ditto for Man City. . Losing 8-1 to Middlesbrough in 2008. . . Along comes the Thai Billionaire . . . Who then sells out to other Arab Billionaires
Leicester City similar
MUFC are controlled by financiers who, whilst known for having vast debt, are using the vastness of the clubs Empires as liquidity for other investments.
You'd think all of this money ifrom abroad would provide cheaper match tickets in England. . . Nothing of the sort - A Chelsea fan would get a season ticket in Germany for two Chelsea matches.
The EPL is an entertaining billionaires playground. Sure the fans are welcome but they're increasingly not as important as they think they are.
Thank God all of this is protected to a huge extent in the Bundesliga. If you want to moan about Bayern being ever successful then consider that MUFC are no where near them in terms of success in Europe at present.
Now if you don't mind, I'm off to watch Frankfurt beat Schalke. G'luck.
Dortmund first XI:
Burki, Schmelzer, Bartra, Sokratis, Passlack, Rode, Castro, Schurrle, Kagawa, Dembele, Aubameyang
I hope Schurrle can find consistency at Dortmund, I want them to give Bayern a run for their money again.
Burki, Schmelzer, Bartra, Sokratis, Passlack, Rode, Castro, Schurrle, Kagawa, Dembele, Aubameyang
I hope Schurrle can find consistency at Dortmund, I want them to give Bayern a run for their money again.
Happy to see Dembele and especially Passlack retaining their spots, not so happy that Weigl is benched, but I guess Rode earned his spot for now.
Fährmann - Caicara, Naldo, Höwedes, Kolasinac - Meyer, Aogo, Geis, EMCM - Huntelaar, die Santo
I guess that answers all questions about Schalke's top 4 challenge. only semi kidding
Other than that Wolfsburg are playing with Kuba as RB and Halilovic didn't make it into Hamburg's starting lineup.
Fährmann - Caicara, Naldo, Höwedes, Kolasinac - Meyer, Aogo, Geis, EMCM - Huntelaar, die Santo
I guess that answers all questions about Schalke's top 4 challenge. only semi kidding
Other than that Wolfsburg are playing with Kuba as RB and Halilovic didn't make it into Hamburg's starting lineup.
I rate Schürrle quite highly, he is kind of one dimensional in his way of attacking and he loses confidence easily, but if he is used in the right way, in the right system, he can be a very good player. I'm sure, unlike Hecking, Tuchel knows what he is doing.
I'm sure Weigl will eventually displace Castro in the first XI.
A DM to replace the CM/AM? not very likely
Castro is playing in Weigl's position now...
Nope, Rode is
Aren't Dortmund playing 4-2-3-1 with Castro/Rode as the 2 DM's? Kagawa as the #10.
Are Reus and Götze injured?
Edit: Reus is probably still having trouble with his pre-EC injury?
Edit: Reus is probably still having trouble with his pre-EC injury?
Reus is. Götze presumably not match-fit so far.
Yes, but it's not a symmetrical double-pivot. Rode plays the defensive part, while Castro acts as the playmaker
Also great to see that Passlack is getting so much game time.
Just a casual foot in the face
Schalke starting off well as usual
TOR
ALEX MEIER FUSSBALLGOTT
ALEX MEIER FUSSBALLGOTT
The kicker ticker reads like Schalke is getting slaughtered by Frankfurt?
Nice goal from Dortmund, after already missing a pretty good chance just moments before, Schürrle assisting with a good cross.
Nice goal from Dortmund, after already missing a pretty good chance just moments before, Schürrle assisting with a good cross.
I agree. You've worked your way to where you are with the negative side effect of making your league less interesting for neutrals or non-Bayern fans.
But I doubt you'll drop far. If it wasn't for the sugar daddies maybe United would be in a similar position to Bayern now. They levelled out the playing field and made sure we couldn't just sign any of our opponents players without tough competition.
In Germany Bayern can still buy almost any player they like without much hassle or competition. Even Dortmund players know there's only one realistic option if you want to stay in Germany. If that doesn't change, I don't see the godly gap shrinking in a significant way.
Mainz are playing really well, wouldn't be surprised to see them equalize soon, this has developed into quite an open match.