Bruno Fernandes | United not interested due to doubts over passing ability

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bosnian_red said:
I'm convinced this is a Nico Gaitan/Otamendi/Garay type of thing. In real life, not actually even interested, despite constant stories from Portugal.
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I think we want him but only as Pogba's replacement
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah I think hes one of a few in case Pogba goes, but also don't think it'd work having both him and Pogba together so I'm ok with it.
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Having another quality creative midfielder in the squad is very much needed. If we are going to call Pogba an attacking midfielder, we only have Mata and Lingard also in that role. That's not good enough as we will absolutely be relying on Pogba again for all of our creativity.

All other top 6 teams bar Arsenal have 2 or more good players in the middle.

City - D Silva, B Silva, Foden, De bruyne,
Spurs - Ndombele, Erikson, Sissoko, Dele Ali, (arguably Kane as he pretty much plays as a #10)
Chelsea - Loftus-Cheek, Kovacic, Ross Barkley, Pulisic (can play centrally)
Liverpool - Keita, wijnaldum, Milner, Oxlade-Chaimberlain, Lallana.

We can't say Andreas or Scott Mctominay are creative players as there roles are different in our team.

In my opinion and hopefully Ole's too, we need another #6 to replace Matic and a top quality attacking midfielder/#10. Our quality in depth in midfield is so poor.
 
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This entire thread is a car crash. People lashing out at United’s ‘incompetence’ for not wrapping up a deal that some clown who is ‘tier 1 for Milan news’ said it was a done deal. First he’s joining City. Then I guess their ‘incompetence’ must have collapsed that deal. Then we had a repeat cycle of his agent ‘flying to England’ to conclude a deal with United, although that plane has never arrived.

In between then, Liverpool were apparently signing him, then Spurs. Same cycle of bollocks every other day. Reported price fluctuating from £50m to £70m.

Now it’s all testimony to how rubbish we are. We have done more business than any other top PL club so far in this market, and are known to be in talks for another two players at the moment. All this complaining, all this pseudo-expertise on how a top club should manage every single facet of their operations is grating.
 
Suvvernmanc said:
Having another quality creative midfielder in the squad is very much needed. If we are going to call Pogba an attacking midfielder, we only have Mata and Lingard also in that role. That's not good enough as we will absolutely be relying on Pogba again for all of our creativity.

All other top 6 teams bar Arsenal have 2 or more good players in the middle.

City - D Silva, B Silva, Foden, De bruyne,
Spurs - Ndombele, Erikson, Sissoko, Dele Ali, (arguably Kane as he pretty much plays as a #10)
Chelsea - Loftus-Cheek, Kovacic, Ross Barkley, Pulisic (can play centrally)
Liverpool - Keita, wijnaldum, Milner, Oxlade-Chaimberlain, Lallana.

We can't say Andreas or Scott Mctominay are creative players as there roles are different in our team.

In my opinion and hopefully Ole's too, we need another #6 to replace Matic and a top quality attacking midfielder/#10. Our quality in depth in midfield is so poor.
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That list is all over the place. You include Foden for City? He's a kid who barely has a role in serious games. Only 2 of de bruyne and the Silva's start in the middle. Ndombele is an energetic box to box player and a very good dribbler, hes not exactly a very creative player though. Same with Sissoko, who goes through good runs but is average overall. Alli and Eriksen play as part of a 3 behind the striker (with Son), so it's a different set up. Chelsea, only 2 of Jorginho/Barkley/kovacic/RLC will play basically. Pulisic is young, unproven, and was a squad player at Dortmund, and will be a winger for them.
You include 5 midfielders for Liverpool, when only 2 of those will ever start, 1 of those 5 being pretty shit, and 1 not being a creative player and more being a back up left back (or fill in squad player anywhere).

So if you include things like #10's, some players who play wide, depth options along with the actual creative starters (or by your logic of creative), then for United we can say:
Pogba, Fred, Mata, Lingard, Pereira, Angel Gomes (if you're including Foden for City...). Pogba is the attacking mid of the 3, but can play as the center mid (though he doesnt play as a controlling mid). That's why Bruno Fernandes doesnt make sense unless Pogba gets sold. We'd be awful in terms of control and defensive stability in midfield. And spending 50m on a backup would be idiotic (like it was with Fred).

I agree that you want someone who can offer creativity as the 2nd midfielder, but Pogba has long since proven he is best and most effective as the most advanced midfielder, so it's the #6 and #8 that needs upgrading if we assume Matic/McTominay/Fred/Pereira are nothing more than squad players (what should be the case). Obviously not the case though for this season in reality and at most we'll sign 1 midfielder IMO, so matic/mctominay will still likely be starting.
 
Rozay said:
This entire thread is a car crash. People lashing out at United’s ‘incompetence’ for not wrapping up a deal that some clown who is ‘tier 1 for Milan news’ said it was a done deal. First he’s joining City. Then I guess their ‘incompetence’ must have collapsed that deal. Then we had a repeat cycle of his agent ‘flying to England’ to conclude a deal with United, although that plane has never arrived.

In between then, Liverpool were apparently signing him, then Spurs. Same cycle of bollocks every other day. Reported price fluctuating from £50m to £70m.

Now it’s all testimony to how rubbish we are. We have done more business than any other top PL club so far in this market, and are known to be in talks for another two players at the moment. All this complaining, all this pseudo-expertise on how a top club should manage every single facet of their operations is grating.
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Yup. We've seen it loads of times with players from the Portuguese league as well, I can't believe how many people genuinely believe them. We had daily rumors about Gaitan for years, when in reality, we never even made a bid. Same with Otamendi or Garay. It's all BS. It's also a signing that wouldn't make sense unless Pogba leaves. It's just a bunch of people who haven't seen much of him actually play just want us to spend big in midfield when he wouldn't actually address issues in the squad.
 
Rozay said:
This entire thread is a car crash. People lashing out at United’s ‘incompetence’ for not wrapping up a deal that some clown who is ‘tier 1 for Milan news’ said it was a done deal. First he’s joining City. Then I guess their ‘incompetence’ must have collapsed that deal. Then we had a repeat cycle of his agent ‘flying to England’ to conclude a deal with United, although that plane has never arrived.

In between then, Liverpool were apparently signing him, then Spurs. Same cycle of bollocks every other day. Reported price fluctuating from £50m to £70m.

Now it’s all testimony to how rubbish we are. We have done more business than any other top PL club so far in this market, and are known to be in talks for another two players at the moment. All this complaining, all this pseudo-expertise on how a top club should manage every single facet of their operations is grating.
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Thank you for this. I miss the days when the Caf was mostly logical and spirited conversation. Many parts of the forum are truly unbearable these days, thanks to the mass hysteria and incessant moaning. I try to avoid the threads I think will be the worst, but the attitude has crept into almost every corner of the site. Looking forward to the season, so at least people will moan about performances instead of armchair CEOing.
 
If we aren't actually in for him, then it means that we have only targeted Longstaff and Lemina as our midfielder signing. Not a good sign especially when our midfield is easily the weakest and most unbalanced of all top 6 teams in PL. We lost Herrera and Fellaini yet we did not even replaced them, let alone upgrading our midfield...
 
Rozay said:
This entire thread is a car crash. People lashing out at United’s ‘incompetence’ for not wrapping up a deal that some clown who is ‘tier 1 for Milan news’ said it was a done deal. First he’s joining City. Then I guess their ‘incompetence’ must have collapsed that deal. Then we had a repeat cycle of his agent ‘flying to England’ to conclude a deal with United, although that plane has never arrived.

In between then, Liverpool were apparently signing him, then Spurs. Same cycle of bollocks every other day. Reported price fluctuating from £50m to £70m.

Now it’s all testimony to how rubbish we are. We have done more business than any other top PL club so far in this market, and are known to be in talks for another two players at the moment. All this complaining, all this pseudo-expertise on how a top club should manage every single facet of their operations is grating.
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Don't forget the odd post in which someone dismisses "all this pseudo-expertise on how a top club should manage every single facet of their operations."
 
bosnian_red said:
That list is all over the place. You include Foden for City? He's a kid who barely has a role in serious games. Only 2 of de bruyne and the Silva's start in the middle. Ndombele is an energetic box to box player and a very good dribbler, hes not exactly a very creative player though. Same with Sissoko, who goes through good runs but is average overall. Alli and Eriksen play as part of a 3 behind the striker (with Son), so it's a different set up. Chelsea, only 2 of Jorginho/Barkley/kovacic/RLC will play basically. Pulisic is young, unproven, and was a squad player at Dortmund, and will be a winger for them.
You include 5 midfielders for Liverpool, when only 2 of those will ever start, 1 of those 5 being pretty shit, and 1 not being a creative player and more being a back up left back (or fill in squad player anywhere).

So if you include things like #10's, some players who play wide, depth options along with the actual creative starters (or by your logic of creative), then for United we can say:
Pogba, Fred, Mata, Lingard, Pereira, Angel Gomes (if you're including Foden for City...). Pogba is the attacking mid of the 3, but can play as the center mid (though he doesnt play as a controlling mid). That's why Bruno Fernandes doesnt make sense unless Pogba gets sold. We'd be awful in terms of control and defensive stability in midfield. And spending 50m on a backup would be idiotic (like it was with Fred).

I agree that you want someone who can offer creativity as the 2nd midfielder, but Pogba has long since proven he is best and most effective as the most advanced midfielder, so it's the #6 and #8 that needs upgrading if we assume Matic/McTominay/Fred/Pereira are nothing more than squad players (what should be the case). Obviously not the case though for this season in reality and at most we'll sign 1 midfielder IMO, so matic/mctominay will still likely be starting.
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You've just said that only 2 players normally start in the lineup for spurs, city and liverpool. That's my point, they have quality players on the bench.

My point was that we dont have the numbers.

I've included players like Foden and Sissoko etc as they are attacking or creative players who are good squad options for starters?

Dont get how you got something else from my post?
 
We finished 6th last year, have lost Fellaini, Herrera and our star player also wants out. weve signed a couple of youngsters from Swansea and Crystal Palace and people are saying well done the board by comparing us to teams who are miles ahead of us, and Chelsea with a ban. You deserve Europa
 
Suvvernmanc said:
You've just said that only 2 players normally start in the lineup for spurs, city and liverpool. That's my point, they have quality players on the bench.

My point was that we dont have the numbers.

I've included players like Foden and Sissoko etc as they are attacking or creative players who are good squad options for starters?

Dont get how you got something else from my post?
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My point was you listed all their players yet only had Pogba for United basically? What about Fred, Pereira, Mata, Lingard or Angel Gomes as depth? All have very equal equivalents quality wise or are even better than some of those you listed for our rivals. I'm not saying we're blessed with creativity or whatever, but the problem isnt because we lack a #10. We lack anything close to good on the right wing. We used to lack any quality at right back, lacked build up play all together from CBs, and lacked enough control from our #6 and #8 to enable the others to actually perform to their best in an attacking sense. Our other creative players/main attacking sources were pretty much all on the younger side and definitely inconsistent, but that's also no thanks to the weak points in our 11 dragging the rest down (part of the reason, not the full reason). Our whole defensive unit as a team was pretty shit, and far worse than our attack.

The answer to that is not throw in a #10, that's like signing Mata when we had Kagawa (or Falcao when we had RVP/Rooney). Fix the RB (we did), fix CB (Maguire?), fix our #6 & #8, fix the right wing, and the others will improve their levels, I'd guarantee it.

Basically, if we have a midfield of Pogba, Bruno Fernandes, and take any pick of defensive midfielders that isnt Ngolo Kante, and we'd struggle defensively and for control and it would be off IMO. Need a more rounded midfielder and let Pogba be the #10, provided he stays. That gets the most out of Pogba, reduces the chances he's a defensive liability like he usually is, and let's us keep control while having the creativity.
 
clarkydaz said:
We finished 6th last year, have lost Fellaini, Herrera and our star player also wants out. weve signed a couple of youngsters from Swansea and Crystal Palace and people are saying well done the board by comparing us to teams who are miles ahead of us, and Chelsea with a ban. You deserve Europa
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Exactly, it’s damning, some fans are downright delusional. I’m all for being positive but there’s very little to be positive about, we’re not pulling in the right direction since sacking Mourinho, anything but.
 
In Fairness to all who are getting a bit tetchy. There is a gulf between United and the top tier in Europe and The PL , ole spoke about bringing in the Changes early . We have currently brought In two very good prospects but that is not enough , our only two world class players futures hanging in the balance and for a club the size of United it is a bit of a mess. After last summer fans are understandably pessimistic. United are huge globally but the team whilst it has got quality isn't world beating while off the pitch Financially is doing very well. This is not a sinking ship but we sprung a couple leaks that need to filled to get us back on track
 
bosnian_red said:
My point was you listed all their players yet only had Pogba for United basically? What about Fred, Pereira, Mata, Lingard or Angel Gomes as depth? All have very equal equivalents quality wise or are even better than some of those you listed for our rivals. I'm not saying we're blessed with creativity or whatever, but the problem isnt because we lack a #10. We lack anything close to good on the right wing. We used to lack any quality at right back, lacked build up play all together from CBs, and lacked enough control from our #6 and #8 to enable the others to actually perform to their best in an attacking sense. Our other creative players/main attacking sources were pretty much all on the younger side and definitely inconsistent, but that's also no thanks to the weak points in our 11 dragging the rest down (part of the reason, not the full reason). Our whole defensive unit as a team was pretty shit, and far worse than our attack.

The answer to that is not throw in a #10, that's like signing Mata when we had Kagawa (or Falcao when we had RVP/Rooney). Fix the RB (we did), fix CB (Maguire?), fix our #6 & #8, fix the right wing, and the others will improve their levels, I'd guarantee it.

Basically, if we have a midfield of Pogba, Bruno Fernandes, and take any pick of defensive midfielders that isnt Ngolo Kante, and we'd struggle defensively and for control and it would be off IMO. Need a more rounded midfielder and let Pogba be the #10, provided he stays. That gets the most out of Pogba, reduces the chances he's a defensive liability like he usually is, and let's us keep control while having the creativity.
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Pogba has played the furthest forward of a 3 man midfield under Ole. We've mostly played with a diamond with Lingard or Mata playing centrally in the #10 and pogba playing left side of a 3 man midfield with a license to get forward.

We played a 433 a few times last season and when we did we played with Fred/Herrera/Matic/Mctominay in a 2 man midfield, with Pogba in a free role/attacking role. But most of the time with a diamond. Just because the lineup by the broadcaster before a game showed it as this,

Martial--Rashford--Lingard

Doesn't mean we played that way. It was a diamond!!

Playing this with Bruno at the tip of the diamond would work!.

Lets not forget that he can also play more as a #8.! So in a 433, Against 8 or so different teams in the premier league who will likely sit back against us, Bruno with his work rate would absolutely work alongside Pogba as the 2 attacking midfielders.

Going back to my original post, in my opinion we need depth in the squad regarding quality, but who also can create. That was my point, we lack creativity.

We need a number 6 to replace Matic, that much is obvious and have lost Herrera who played in the #8 position but we have Fred, Mctominay and Andreas who can play that defensive role or right side of a 3 man midfield, and Scott and Andreas can play box to box (albeit not to the standard we need). So in that regard a box to box midfielder (N'Dombele would have been the dream) might be needed as you have said.

It is my opinion that we need Bruno as well as Pogba for quality in depth. £50m is nothing these days. We just bought a RB for that. A world class midfielder goes for £100m these days. A top midfielder like Bruno for £50m is a great price for someone of his quality.

Whether we bring in another midfielder as well as Bruno is another question all together. I would personally like to bring him and a #6 in. !!
 
Scores again. Please don't leave you beautiful man!
 
We seemed to try Lingard and Mata in the 10 position today. Maybe just keeping that position warm for Fernandes. A real goal threat in there would be a huge upgrade for us. Hopefully we get this wrapped up soon if we are in for him.
 
bosnian_red said:
I'm convinced this is a Nico Gaitan/Otamendi/Garay type of thing. In real life, not actually even interested, despite constant stories from Portugal.
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We gotta bring in two Midfield players as we let go two. We aren't linked with anyone apart from long staff and him, so I think it could be genuine.
 
Patrick08 said:
We gotta bring in two Midfield players as we let go two. We aren't linked with anyone apart from long staff and him, so I think it could be genuine.
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Sorry what? Hahahaha

We've been linked with about 50 midfielders. Lemina the latest one.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah I think hes one of a few in case Pogba goes, but also don't think it'd work having both him and Pogba together so I'm ok with it.
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Agree that Bruno is a Pogba-like player and not a huge reason to have them on the pitch together. That said, Pogba can be very inconsistent. He can also get injured, obviously. How can we aim for any trophies when we have very little depth in the team? Look at the depth City and Liverpool have! We barely have one quality player for each position and the ones we have want to start every single game, or else they cry on Twitter and tell journalists how they want to be sold. This is not how we can win.
 
LonelyFire said:
You’re club is desperate to sell him so think you’re out of luck. I still think the Utd links are utter nonsense.
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Dont think we are desperate to sell him at all. He is simply the player with the most market value on our team.

Battaglia, Bas Dost, and Marcos Acuna can give us 45M-50M and that is not counting all the deadwood in our club to get rid of.

With that being said I think we will for sure sell him.
 
Bestietom said:
We need Fernandes only if Pogba goes. I think we need a DM more.
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No necessarily.
De Gea
Wan Bissaka - Lindelof - New CB - Shaw
New CDM
Mctominay - Pogba
Fernandes
Yedder? - Rashford
​
Also, Pogba could play in a midfield of 2 next to an energetic DM versus small teams.
​
If next season we sell Pogba, we could use that money to buy Sancho. Then, we could move Fernandes to Pogba's position or he could continue playing as No. 10 in a 4231 with Sancho (hopefully) and James as wingers.
 
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