[RUCK4444]

He's out of form, hardly a surprise in this team who is underperforming from front to back. He has a shockingly bad midfield behind him that neither help to maintain possession or sustain attacks where you would see the best of him. Instead when he does get the ball it's all on him to create, especially when Pogba isn't on the pitch.

IMO we could play him as a SS up with Ronaldo, he times his runs into the box very well and he can be Ronaldo's legs. With the lack of a decent DM in the side I think we should try a flatter midfield 3 and drop the pivot, with Bruno up with Ronaldo. Then sub in Cavani where required.

 

[roonster09]

Because dear fellow if I’m passing to someone taking shots from 30 yards out on the left or right at impossible angles making it unlikely to go on target that still counts as a chance even if it went horribly wide. Which makes a mockery of the “chance” stat as it’s barely even that.

Quality matters over quantity in my opinion.

Expected stats work off of zones. If I float a ball to the back post and someone is coming in on it it’s an expected goal. Even if there are two defenders there meaning you can’t actually get a jump so both these stats become subjective in there very nature.

If player can't get a jump or if the player doesn't receive the pass then it won't be counted for expected assists. It won't work just by floating balls to zones.

Also you don't have to assume, everyone watches the game and in most games it's Bruno who ends up creating chances. Not by passing the ball to the nearest player to take 30-40 yard shot. Stop clutching straws.

If only we had stat for quality of chances, oh wait. Bruno tops it.

 

[Bebestation]

What does that mean? How many penalties did he win? From January Martial won 3 of them, Pogba 2 and Rashford 1.

Yeah de gea passed those chances that led to the penalties?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

If player can't get a jump or if the player doesn't receive the pass then it won't be counted for expected assists. It won't work just by floating balls to zones.

Also you don't have to assume, everyone watches the game and in most games it's Bruno who ends up creating chances. Not by passing the ball to the nearest player to take 30-40 yard shot. Stop clutching straws.

If only we had stat for quality of chances, oh wait. Bruno tops it.

We don’t though. As again it’s a subjective matter so the one clutching at straws is yourself.

No where have I said or indicated Bruno is doing that. You just as per usual see what you want to see and become all irate like you often do.

What I was doing was pointing out the flaw in the chance stat creation or XG. Because they don’t measure quality and if I am constantly putting balls in from various locations some good some not then clearly I’m going to score well in these stats. It doesn’t mean they are good chances. If I’m on the 18yarder and dink a ball through to Ronaldo going clean through at a good angle then that is a great chance and something we’ve seen Bruno do.

Take the Ronaldo volley recently, that’s not a good chance for example. Then there was one where he slipped Martial through one on one. That’s a good chance.

Again quality matters. Which people learn to identify over time watching football.

 

[TMDaines]

He also had most expected assists in the league last season.

He's third in the league this season too for expected assists. I've been quite open in criticising Bruno and highlighting his weaknesses, but creatively he's excellent and one of the very best in the league.

 

[roonster09]

We don’t though. As again it’s a subjective matter so the one clutching at straws is yourself.

No where have I said or indicated Bruno is doing that. You just as per usual see what you want to see and become all irate like you often do.

What I was doing was pointing out the flaw in the chance stat creation or XG. Because they don’t measure quality and if I am constantly putting balls in from various locations some good some not then clearly I’m going to score well in these stats. It doesn’t mean they are good chances. If I’m on the 18yarder and dink a ball through to Ronaldo going clean through at a good angle then that is a great chance and something we’ve seen Bruno do.

Take the Ronaldo volley recently, that’s not a good chance for example. Then there was one where he slipped Martial through one on one. That’s a good chance.

Again quality matters. Which people learn to identify over time watching football.

Maybe you need to read what expect assists mean. It doesn't give 1 for every assist or every chance created. fecking hell. it's the measure for quality of chances.

"Again quality matters. Which people learn to identify over time watching football."

 

[TMDaines]

We don’t though. As again it’s a subjective matter so the one clutching at straws is yourself.

No where have I said or indicated Bruno is doing that. You just as per usual see what you want to see and become all irate like you often do.

What I was doing was pointing out the flaw in the chance stat creation or XG. Because they don’t measure quality and if I am constantly putting balls in from various locations some good some not then clearly I’m going to score well in these stats. It doesn’t mean they are good chances. If I’m on the 18yarder and dink a ball through to Ronaldo going clean through at a good angle then that is a great chance and something we’ve seen Bruno do.

Take the Ronaldo volley recently, that’s not a good chance for example. Then there was one where he slipped Martial through one on one. That’s a good chance.

Again quality matters. Which people learn to identify over time watching football.

Bruno was the league leader for expected assists last season and is third for this season too.

 

[roonster09]

He's third in the league this season too for expected assists. I've been quite open in criticising Bruno and highlighting his weaknesses, but creatively he's excellent and one of the very best in the league.

Yeah, discussion was about his form from long time back. So was highlighting last season.

He was top of expected assists in PL and 4th in top 5 leagues. That's a very good record. He is 3rd in PL this season.

 

[Ali Dia]

People on here itching to throw our best player of the last few years under the bus after any poor game. The problem is he’s been one of the only truly effective and brave ones in a struggling team and not the other way around. He masked over so many issues with the tighter games he helped us shade to get back into the CL the last two times. We start going toe to toe with teams this season and get ripped apart. For me It’s actually simple enough. If the forwards don’t press then you need a solid lineup behind them not playing gung-ho while also trying to press for them. Otherwise you try to keep it as tight as possible and just hope your attackers eventually break through. We are currently falling badly in between the two setups

 

[Jeppers7]

Yeah de gea passed those chances that led to the penalties?

What are you talking about now ? He didn’t even play the pass to the player who won the penalty in any of them? Perhaps he played the pass before the pass before the pass before?

 

[Canagel]

Another Hall of shame perfomance in a big game?

this guy doesnt even start for a average Portuguese team and is firmly benched by Renato Sanches yet I was hearing comparisons with Cantona on this platform.. when will people apologize for the disrespect?

 

[Canagel]

What do they class as chances? is It just an action leading to a shot on goal? Because there are good chances and then just chances. I wouldn’t say we as a team create that many good chances. Seems quite rare we slip someone through for a one on one vs a keeper other than a long ball to Rashford.

Do agree on the point he can make the team look better but then he’s still capable of making the team look poor and disjointed. Our team is generally a mess and I’m positive Bruno can vastly improve if we can get someone in to just give these guys set rolls and jobs and help guide them on the pitch.

the whole stat is a fugazi stat.

taking corners is classified as "chances created", a spammed cross into the box is labeled as "chances created", any action before a shot including a sideways pass is classified as "chances created".

people watch us play for 90 minutes regularly without us barely creating anything or even touching the ball in the box yet will pull out the Opta spreadsheets after the game to convince you someone played well as if we didnt just watch the same game. dont be fooled by these fugazi created chances stats. they dont mean anything.

 

[roonster09]

the whole stat is a fugazi stat.

taking corners is classified as "chances created", a spammed cross into the box is labeled as "chances created", any action before a shot including a sideways pass is classified as "chances created".

people watch us play for 90 minutes regularly without us barely creating anything or even touching the ball in the box yet will pull out the Opta spreadsheets after the game to convince you someone played well as if we didnt just watch the same game. dont be fooled by these fugazi created chances stats. they dont mean anything.

Yeah, spamming cross with no chance of scoring goals also made him top the expected assists stat.

 

[MattofManchester]

Yeah, spamming cross with no chance of scoring goals also made him top the expected assists stat.

Next you'll be seeing "he tries too hard to force it and the law of averages means he'll get a few assists".

 

[JPRouve]

We don’t though. As again it’s a subjective matter so the one clutching at straws is yourself.

No where have I said or indicated Bruno is doing that. You just as per usual see what you want to see and become all irate like you often do.

What I was doing was pointing out the flaw in the chance stat creation or XG. Because they don’t measure quality and if I am constantly putting balls in from various locations some good some not then clearly I’m going to score well in these stats. It doesn’t mean they are good chances. If I’m on the 18yarder and dink a ball through to Ronaldo going clean through at a good angle then that is a great chance and something we’ve seen Bruno do.

Take the Ronaldo volley recently, that’s not a good chance for example. Then there was one where he slipped Martial through one on one. That’s a good chance.

Again quality matters. Which people learn to identify over time watching football.

xG does mesure quality, it's the reason of its existence.

 

[roonster09]

Next you'll be seeing "he tries too hard to force it and the law of averages means he'll get a few assists".

Yeah, Bruno tops the charts for Chances created but we have to ignore it just because even shot from distance is chances created.

Next we should also stop using goal stats as players can score goal without having a clue about it like Rashford scored vs Stoke.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

xG does mesure quality, it's the reason of its existence.

No it doesn’t. It extrapolates the percentage chance of you scoring via your position on the pitch. It doesn’t take in to account if it was a good ball or not. If it’s wet, spinning, being chased down by defenders or the velocity of the pass or height of it. All it measure is a ball getting to a spot where someone might be to take a shot and if that area on the pitch is an area where with no one but a keeper you have a good chance of scoring. Ie central, back post, front post 6 yarder, 18yarder and so on.
Again it’s a completely subjective As to what is a good chance and isn’t and XG is not a great measure of that metric.

 

[Teja]

No it doesn’t. It extrapolates the percentage chance of you scoring via your position on the pitch. It doesn’t take in to account if it was a good ball or not. If it’s wet, spinning, being chased down by defenders or the velocity of the pass or height of it. All it measure is a ball getting to a spot where someone might be to take a shot and if that area on the pitch is an area where with no one but a keeper you have a good chance of scoring. Ie central, back post, front post 6 yarder, 18yarder and so on.
Again it’s a completely subjective As to what is a good chance and isn’t and XG is not a great measure of that metric.

You can make any model endlessly complicated but whatever you do, it won't match reality.

There are already a couple of different xG models floating about - some take into account rebounds, some take into account defenders' positions, some take into account volley / height of ball etc. etc. etc. and each has a different output.

The question is if it's a good enough approximation for the quality of the chance and IMO most xG models are reasonable at that.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

You can make any model endlessly complicated but whatever you do, it won't match reality.

There are already a couple of different xG models floating about - some take into account rebounds, some take into account defenders' positions, some take into account volley / height of ball etc. etc. etc. and each has a different output.

The question is if it's a good enough approximation for the quality of the chance and IMO most xG models are reasonable at that.

But again that brings it round to my original point. Its subjective. It’s not something that can really be measured accurately. We have all probably watched or played football for 20 years or more so you’d hope by now most are able to spot what is a quality opportunity. Or a delivery.

Chances created has its flaws as well as XG assists, shots and so on. So whenever people whip out things like most created chances in Europe it’s not always telling the full story. Which seems to be something some have taken issue with. I wouldn’t say we create many good chances now or even last season. We are a pretty run of the mill team in terms of quality of performance and can vastly improve. With the quality we do have including Bruno I fully expect us to and that his metrics will improve across the board.

 

[Jeppers7]

Next you'll be seeing "he tries too hard to force it and the law of averages means he'll get a few assists".

To be fair his possession stats are way lower than any other player, which might allude to that being the case. I’m not too bothered about that to be fair. Somebody needs to try something sometimes. He just hasn’t played that well overall since January and his output is waning.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Hasn’t he got an insane number of assists this season? Feel like he assists almost every game.

 

[Jeppers7]

Hasn’t he got an insane number of assists this season? Feel like he assists almost every game.

8 I wouldn’t say it’s insane but it’s really good. I wouldn’t say his performances have been good but that’s maybe unfair as we are a mess currently.

 

[Siezard]

Goals/assists tend to drop overtime when opponents figure you out.

Bruno doesnt dribble so much. He mainly just looks for the opportunity to shoot or give a high qualify forward passes. Opponents should know that by now.

 

[SonyaCross493]

Bruno is part of the reason we are not dominating games.. he loses the ball high up the pitch too much and the other team counter-attacks when our full-backs and defenders are out of position.

hopefully he improves and stops giving the ball away. Otherwise Watford are no mugs they'll take advantage.

I would've dropped Fernandes tomorrow against Watford to also rest him. It seems like he is playing every game this season and we have 5 games in the space of 14 days coming up a very busy period with not many rest days. We need to rotate the squad and Watford is the easiest game on paper to do that.

 

[Amir]

We need to rotate the squad and Watford is the easiest game on paper to do that.

When the manager is in survival mode and might think any single bad result could be his last match, he probably won't be making such plans.

 

[#07]

 

[Jeppers7]

Not Bruno’s fault but as a team we don’t create great chances generally. A compilation video of the 37 chances would be interesting to see along with those of the other players on the list. It’s certainly a flawed concept and Bruno has not had a good season so far.

 

[Bebestation]

Fantastic player.

Miss his play style when he was our main goalscorer + our main creator.

Top 3 goalscorers in the PL last year if I remember right.

Now that's changed and he is only creating to arguably a forward line that looks more basic in terms of play style than it really did last year.

Not a big fan of his Portugal National team football type style - but what can you really do? That just kind of arrived at United without anyone really planning for it.

 

[Devil’s Trident]

Bruno is what he is, a high risk reward player who will lose the ball in abundance and will create chances in abundance. I don’t like this kamikaze football but you can’t dispute his stats. What is also certain is that with his style of football neither we can play 4-3-3 or dominate the game in midfield . On top of that our attackers game suffers too because of him occupying the spaces where wingers or striker need to be.

Inverted Wingers especially can’t flourish if their spaces are restricted, they need the freedom of the pitch to run to cut back to drive at defenders. But Bruno is here to stay so what we can do is pull him 5-10m back if possible and put him alongside Rice and tielemens next season hopefully under a manger who likes to have midfield control.

 

[Tomuś]

Blaming Bruno or Ronaldo for our woes is baffling. They are literally the only players in the team who consistently produce.

 

[Nordmore]

He is a guy when he plays almost as a SS/CAM player that makes runs in to the box and is in immense form is extremely hard to stop - he makes the whole team better with his mix of creativity, leadership and finishing.

Now, you see the penalties have completely gone missing from our score board because Bruno Fernandes is playing the Portugal version of himself - the deeper CAM seen sometimes even at CM. You only really see Bruno now further up the pitch when he tries to press by himself.

Agreed.

The current tactic is just a disaster copy of Conte's 352. Most people say we're playing with a 3412 but we actually play like a 352.

Conte's 352 is good because of the good defensive midfielders. He benched Eriksson despite the guy is one of the most rated CAM for his defensive midfielders. Lukaku and Martinez worked really well and compliment each other as two complete forwards. Their wingbacks are fantastic offensively.

United has bad defensive midfielders, both Shaw and AWB are not wingback, and play a SS/CAM as a box to box midfielder. Our strikers simply can't work together. Ronaldo is a fantastic goal scorer but by no chance is a complete forward, never been.

We should revert to how we played last season, asap imo.

 

[UncleBob]

Absolutely fecking rubbish.

Should be closer to being completely dropped than being anywhere near the starting 11

 

[villain]

Imagine if Pogba played like that today, but if I speak, I'm in big trouble.

 

[kouroux]

Truly abysmal. What a fecking joke. On top of everything it's his fake attitude of a leader that cracks me up when he has been garbage himself

 

[El Zoido]

Players are allowed to have bad games and go through poor form. It’s up to the manager to deal with it.

 

[Nick7]

Should be dropped.

 

[Toshey]

Needs a bench bigtime.

 

[Freak]

Why the feck was he having a go at the away fans at the end?

 

[432JuanMata]

Truly abysmal. What a fecking joke. On top of everything it's his fake attitude of a leader that cracks me up when he has been garbage himself

Not defending him and yeah he’s been terrible this season but nearly all have and it’s the manager that needs to go.

 

[Man-United]

Should never be our captain after that behaviour.