[Greck]

Isn’t half the point that he’s not adjusting himself to reality? Not to mention the risks he takes in the wrong positions.

Yes, plus most teams that employ aggressive high pressing also try to keep the ball to minimize how much energy they are expending out of possession. Pressing and control complement each other so much so the former isn't sustainable without the latter.

We'll run into this endless loop where Bruno loses it, we win it back, give it back to Bruno who loses it again for us to chase on repeat for 90 minutes. This is why the conversation about Bruno has to start with Bruno adapting. You're not controlling a game when a large chunk of your possessions die in under 3 seconds.

If we don't want the ball we might as well consider sitting deep because teams who do will eventually push us back anyway. There's such a thing as balance and Bruno needs to discover that. Bruno will run into troubles under ETH if he doesnt refine his approach. I don't think ETH even uses many diagonal prayers to runners in behind. They short pass through the heart of the defense. If all he has in his toolkit is spraying low percentage long passes over defenders he will end up redundant under ETH.

 

[Jeppers7]

Opinions are so extreme on this place.

He’s definitely having an off season. The biggest difference is that he’s lost his mojo in front of goal. His finishing is off. I think the regular penalties he scored in previous seasons helped his confidence as a goalscorer. Without them he’s snatching at chances he would have put away easily. He’s not striking long shots as cleanly as before either. He’s just very short on self belief in front of goal.

Obviously he’s still creating loads of chances. And without him we create sweet feck all. So even when he’s not at his best he’s a vital player for us.

He does lose possession a lot. He always has done. It’s the same with all the most creative players in the league. It wouldn’t be a massive problem if it wasn’t for the fact that, as a team, we’re absolutely piss poor at winning the ball back after we lose it. Whenever City and Liverpool lose the ball trying to create there’s a good chance they win the ball back while it’s still in the final third. Not for us though. Not with the absolutely woeful defensive effort from our attacking players and the deeply flawed midfield behind them. We’re more likely to concede a shot at goal within seconds of a lose pass from Bruno than we are to quickly win possession back. Fix all of that, get Bruno playing with some confidence again and he will be by far the least of our problems.

Turns out taking 10 penalties (it is 10, right?) in a season is good for a player's goals tally. Who'd have thunk it?

Not to mention the usual caveat that players who rack up the most minutes will tend to top a lot of those stats and Bruno probably played more minutes than all the other midfielders

I thought City and Liverpool players were a stick for you to beat our players with? Literally no reasoning taken that they are a better functioning team, with better players? Our players should individually be held comparable to them.

Big game last Saturday, huge game. If we’d have won that we’d have been in a great position for top four. A game for our best players to stand up….inspire their teammates to better…..and Bruno put in a typical big game 3/10 performance if you’re being generous. Missed a penalty with a stupid look at me run up, spent the whole game ambling around moaning at teammates, then criminally lost the ball on the edge of his own box, how many times do we see this brainless act from him?

Opinions are so extreme aren’t they,

Question aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted. Big games, against top opposition, where Bruno stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Bebestation]

The whole team plays shit but the fanbase then pick on individuals like its an individual problem than a team problem.

Loved how he was playing at the start of season.

 

[romufc]

The whole team plays shit but the fanbase then pick on individuals like its an individual problem than a team problem.

Loved how he was playing at the start of season.

Exactly, when the team plays badly, individuals all look bad. Someone showed a clip of him overhitting a corner kick to emphasis their point. Its like every other team in the PL hits corner straight to their player and score.

 

[MadDogg]

Exactly, when the team plays badly, individuals all look bad. Someone showed a clip of him overhitting a corner kick to emphasis their point. Its like every other team in the PL hits corner straight to their player and score.

If you are talking about the clip just above against Arsenal, the point of that clip is how he instantly turned and bitched at Telles for no good reason, like he's trying to blame Telles for the fact that he (Bruno) overhit the cross. That constant bitching must wear on over players nerves at times, especially when Bruno himself is constantly making mistakes.

 

[romufc]

If you are talking about the clip just above against Arsenal, the point of that clip is how he instantly turned and bitched at Telles for no good reason, like he's trying to blame Telles for the fact that he (Bruno) overhit the cross. That constant bitching must wear on over players nerves at times, especially when Bruno himself is constantly making mistakes.

How do you know what he is telling him? It might be about something that is not relevant to that phase of the game.

 

[El Jefe]

Has anyone considered him being top of the chance creation numbers is the actual problem.

Ball possession 21/22
Manchester City 68.2%
Liverpool 66.3%
Manchester United 52.4%

Touches per 90
Trent 97
KDB 78
Bruno 73

In my opinion both Trent and KDB are far better passers than Bruno, I just think he attempts more killer passes than them. The stats actually match the eye test in this respect.

 

[Rozay]

The whole team plays shit but the fanbase then pick on individuals like its an individual problem than a team problem.

Loved how he was playing at the start of season.

The big issue with Bruno in particular is that to me, he makes it more difficult for the team to play well.

And by mere definition of his role, he should have a greater influence on the team playing well or not. He is the #10. The player expected to get on the ball, go looking for it if need be, and link the play. Upgrading Bruno with a good #10, while not solving all of our issues, will go a long way to improving how the team plays.

 

[bosnian_red]

Turns out taking 10 penalties (it is 10, right?) in a season is good for a player's goals tally. Who'd have thunk it?

Not to mention the usual caveat that players who rack up the most minutes will tend to top a lot of those stats and Bruno probably played more minutes than all the other midfielders

I thought City and Liverpool players were a stick for you to beat our players with? Literally no reasoning taken that they are a better functioning team, with better players? Our players should individually be held comparable to them.

Big game last Saturday, huge game. If we’d have won that we’d have been in a great position for top four. A game for our best players to stand up….inspire their teammates to better…..and Bruno put in a typical big game 3/10 performance if you’re being generous. Missed a penalty with a stupid look at me run up, spent the whole game ambling around moaning at teammates, then criminally lost the ball on the edge of his own box, how many times do we see this brainless act from him?

Opinions are so extreme aren’t they,

Question aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted. Big games, against top opposition, where Bruno stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Rashford is literally the only player in the club to have such a performance in a big game in the past what, 5 years? Yet half the United fans want to hound him out of the club because his confidence has hit rock bottom this season.

It is hard to be at your best and show your best if the team does not have a functioning system. It is hard to dominate a game against a better coached team for any player. Bruno isn't really that type of player, though he's had plenty of good big games the past few years (vs Liverpool, City and Spurs, decent games vs Chelsea in the past too).

Pogues point was that the penalties probably helped his confidence. You can criticize his run up, but he's had the best penalty record in Europe the past few years. Don't give a feck about run up if his success rate is elite. This season we fecked with that and sometimes Ronaldo took it, sometimes he took it, his confidence dropped with some uncertainty and then it's all spiralled. People need to stop looking at a drop in confidence in a disaster team as a mark of what a player is. Its never applicable long term. It happens to world class players much better than Bruno and they get a shit ton abuse because more is expected, when in reality, they can't even give more because the team is shit. There's no use in singling out players for too much criticism or making judgments when the team is a full disaster, and it's clearly a much bigger problem than just 1 player not being on form or good enough. Fix the main problem, see how it affects our players.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Bruno is pretty much a guaranteed starter for the next multiple years until he starts declining. I think Ten Hag will see it that way. Might even be made captain if we have a captain election like Ralf says.

 

[Greck]

The whole team plays shit but the fanbase then pick on individuals like its an individual problem than a team problem.

Loved how he was playing at the start of season.

Pretty sure no one is being spared. Detach yourself from the player so the criticism everyone is receiving stops looking like persecution. Also no, absolutely not, the squad aren't struggling like him. Bruno might be having the worst 2022 of any prominent figure not named Rashford. Even Ronaldo and Sancho have found small pockets of form here and there that can be built on. Elanga, Fred, De Gea are also playing to their expected ability.

He's our best player but predictably posts big game disasterclasses. You want to challenge the prediction he is probably also going to suck against Chelsea? I mean performances where he's actively detrimental not just an invisible passenger. We're way past the point of sample sizes when it comes to the body of work that is his big game resume.

All effort must be made to steer the club away from the disaster of making him a center figure in a future rebuild. He can be a part but can't be among the main cogs. This could become more and more glaring with time so let's see I guess. Personally not ready for another farce of a rebuild. We just concluded one with a core of clowns and disappointments because we kept ignoring red flags to give our favouriites more rope. Months of poor performances isn't the kind of thing that should be swept under the rug anymore. Nearly all our signings have great debut seasons, the real question is how they will follow it up.

 

[Jeppers7]

Rashford is literally the only player in the club to have such a performance in a big game in the past what, 5 years? Yet half the United fans want to hound him out of the club because his confidence has hit rock bottom this season.

It is hard to be at your best and show your best if the team does not have a functioning system. It is hard to dominate a game against a better coached team for any player. Bruno isn't really that type of player, though he's had plenty of good big games the past few years (vs Liverpool, City and Spurs, decent games vs Chelsea in the past too).

Pogues point was that the penalties probably helped his confidence. You can criticize his run up, but he's had the best penalty record in Europe the past few years. Don't give a feck about run up if his success rate is elite. This season we fecked with that and sometimes Ronaldo took it, sometimes he took it, his confidence dropped with some uncertainty and then it's all spiralled. People need to stop looking at a drop in confidence in a disaster team as a mark of what a player is. Its never applicable long term. It happens to world class players much better than Bruno and they get a shit ton abuse because more is expected, when in reality, they can't even give more because the team is shit. There's no use in singling out players for too much criticism or making judgments when the team is a full disaster, and it's clearly a much bigger problem than just 1 player not being on form or good enough. Fix the main problem, see how it affects our players.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Bruno is pretty much a guaranteed starter for the next multiple years until he starts declining. I think Ten Hag will see it that way. Might even be made captain if we have a captain election like Ralf says.

The first part of your post isn’t true at all, off the top of my head Juanfield, Martial in fa cup semi v Everton, Pogba away at City, away at Chelsea in the FA Cup, DeGea away at Arsenal and home to Liverpool.there will have been others too.

As for the rest of your post I totally agree. I’d actually just posted a collection @Pogue Mahone posts from Pogba’s thread in Ole’s first season and changed the name of Pogba to Bruno.

Sure Bruno isn’t playing well and hasn’t for a long long time, but I wouldn’t go overboard blaming an individual for not performing in our team in big games or for missing a penalty because I didn’t like the run up or go to town on a player for losing the ball on the edge of the box a few times in a season.

it’s the hypocrisy that smacks you in the face though.

 

[roonster09]

Ball possession 21/22
Manchester City 68.2%
Liverpool 66.3%
Manchester United 52.4%

Managers 22/22
City - Pep
Liverpool - Klopp
ManUtd - Ole and manager who isn't even a manager.

 

[roonster09]

The big issue with Bruno in particular is that to me, he makes it more difficult for the team to play well.

And by mere definition of his role, he should have a greater influence on the team playing well or not. He is the #10. The player expected to get on the ball, go looking for it if need be, and link the play. Upgrading Bruno with a good #10, while not solving all of our issues, will go a long way to improving how the team plays.

You can roll B.Silva and Scholes into one, they won't have greater influence in a non-functioning team that looks so out of sync (not saying Bruno is better than both, just an example).

You need functioning team for players to have influence on the team. I haven't seen a team that's so out of sync than ManUtd, even the simple passes, player makes pass to the standing position, receiver makes run randomly. Opposite is true too.

You can pick or drop any player in the team, shitness remains the same. It's obvious where the problem is too, the non-existent playing style and players looking like sunday level player as they have no clue what to do on and off the ball. It's not by chance that midfield consisting of Fellaini, Rooney, Carrick, Herrera was able to dominate midfield with players like Fernandinho, David Silva, Yaya/KdB. Next season same Fernandinho, David Silva, KdB dominated entire league and the big change was the man leading the team.

 

[roonster09]

it’s the hypocrisy that smacks you in the face though.

If only irony slaps the posts.

 

[RepardReece]

The whole team plays shit but the fanbase then pick on individuals like its an individual problem than a team problem.

Loved how he was playing at the start of season.

This is ironic coming from you

 

[Rozay]

You can roll B.Silva and Scholes into one, they won't have greater influence in a non-functioning team that looks so out of sync (not saying Bruno is better than both, just an example).

You need functioning team for players to have influence on the team. I haven't seen a team that's so out of sync than ManUtd, even the simple passes, player makes pass to the standing position, receiver makes run randomly. Opposite is true too.

You can pick or drop any player in the team, shitness remains the same. It's obvious where the problem is too, the non-existent playing style and players looking like sunday level player as they have no clue what to do on and off the ball. It's not by chance that midfield consisting of Fellaini, Rooney, Carrick, Herrera was able to dominate midfield with players like Fernandinho, David Silva, Yaya/KdB. Next season same Fernandinho, David Silva, KdB dominated entire league and the big change was the man leading the team.

You are correct that one such player cannot make our team a great footballing team. However, in the transition towards becoming a great footballing team, I do feel that the upgrade we get at the centre of it will be the most important, which was more to the point.

A #10, in principle, gets too much of the ball, in key phases of the game, to get away with being detrimental to a team’s flow. But I agree wholeheartedly that this team needs so much more than an upgrade at 10, I just feel, certainly for the purpose of functionality, that it is the most important. Hopefully Ten Hag can make great improvements in the unit, but the players need to go out and walk it.

And I do disagree that a B.Silva/Scholes hybrid would not have a greater influence on our play than Bruno, example as it was l, of course. The other day just Juan Mata came off the bench and enabled us to have greater flow with a simple ability to get it and give it, pass and move. There have been times over the last few years when Pogba has been injured for months and then come back in the very first game and helped us pass the ball much better, before eventually creating other issues. One player can’t fix all of our problems, but they can make a difference to the basic cohesion if they are at the heart of the play.

 

[roonster09]

You are correct that one such player cannot make our team a great footballing team. However, in the transition towards becoming a great footballing team, I do feel that the upgrade we get at the centre of it will be the most important, which was more to the point.

A #10, in principle, gets too much of the ball, in key phases of the game, to get away with being detrimental to a team’s flow. But I agree wholeheartedly that this team needs so much more than an upgrade at 10, I just feel, certainly for the purpose of functionality, that it is the most important. Hopefully Ten Hag can make great improvements in the unit, but the players need to go out and walk it.

And I do disagree that a B.Silva/Scholes hybrid would not have a greater influence on our play than Bruno, example as it was l, of course. The other day just Juan Mata came off the bench and enabled us to have greater flow with a simple ability to get it and give it, pass and move. There have been times over the last few years when Pogba has been injured for months and then come back in the very first game and helped us pass the ball much better, before eventually creating other issues. One player can’t fix all of our problems, but they can make a difference to the basic cohesion if they are at the heart of the play.

I didn't say B.Silva/Scholes won't have greater influence on our play than Bruno, I said they won't have greater influence in a non-functioning side. In the form Bruno is in, even Lingard has more influence than Bruno.

Our fans have some imagination on how the team should be playing and start blaming players for not playing in that way, when we never hired managers to implement that controlled style of play. Managers/coaches are the one who stamps their authority on the team. Van Gaal was the only manager who wanted to dominated using controlled possession but we were so poor in the attack.

Jose was, defend and counter quickly. It changed to defend and hoof the ball to Lukaku and look for second ball.
Ole was don't pass sideways, just play forward passes.
Rangnick is very vertical manager, attack should be completed within 10 seconds in his ideal world/footballing team.

If we hire a manager who puts lot of importance on control using possession, then we might see lot of difference in the playstyle of a team and few individuals.

Mata, Pogba few mins are just examples that happen very rarely in our game, it's not consistent. Don't think it offers any meaningful info as the sample size is negligible.

 

[bosnian_red]

The first part of your post isn’t true at all, off the top of my head Juanfield, Martial in fa cup semi v Everton, Pogba away at City, away at Chelsea in the FA Cup, DeGea away at Arsenal and home to Liverpool.there will have been others too.

As for the rest of your post I totally agree. I’d actually just posted a collection @Pogue Mahone posts from Pogba’s thread in Ole’s first season and changed the name of Pogba to Bruno.

Sure Bruno isn’t playing well and hasn’t for a long long time, but I wouldn’t go overboard blaming an individual for not performing in our team in big games or for missing a penalty because I didn’t like the run up or go to town on a player for losing the ball on the edge of the box a few times in a season.

it’s the hypocrisy that smacks you in the face though.

Ah how could I forget Juanfield
Martial sure but it's Everton, so meh. Meant outfield players not De Gea. There hasn't been many is the point! Plenty of decent ones.

But yeah it does apply to Pogba as well. There's a key difference though. With Pogba, he has been mouthing off in the press every few months, his family has been mouthing off and his agent has as well. For years he's wanted to leave. On the pitch, as a player he isn't as hard a worker as Bruno. Bruno will put a shift in and run his heart out every game if nothing else. That's much easier to get behind and make excuses for. Not that that was really the issue with Pogba anyway for me. The problem with Pogba for me was that we purchased him and asked him to be something he wasn't for years, and didn't use him correctly for years or surround him with the right players for years. The only time we actually did was probably 18/19 with Ole (but the rest of the team was still a shit show and still didn't have a system). Pogba was wasted as a player by United 100%. Now I'm just not convinced he's a top top player anymore, and I'd just rather keep Bruno at this point, so that's why Pogba I think should've left years ago and still should leave, while Bruno there is hope for.

 

[Rozay]

I didn't say B.Silva/Scholes won't have greater influence on our play than Bruno, I said they won't have greater influence in a non-functioning side. In the form Bruno is in, even Lingard has more influence than Bruno.

Our fans have some imagination on how the team should be playing and start blaming players for not playing in that way, when we never hired managers to implement that controlled style of play. Managers/coaches are the one who stamps their authority on the team. Van Gaal was the only manager who wanted to dominated using controlled possession but we were so poor in the attack.

Jose was, defend and counter quickly. It changed to defend and hoof the ball to Lukaku and look for second ball.
Ole was don't pass sideways, just play forward passes.
Rangnick is very vertical manager, attack should be completed within 10 seconds in his ideal world/footballing team.

If we hire a manager who puts lot of importance on control using possession, then we might see lot of difference in the playstyle of a team and few individuals.

Mata, Pogba few mins are just examples that happen very rarely in our game, it's not consistent. Don't think it offers any meaningful info as the sample size is negligible.

That’s a fair position to take, and I agree with it to a large degree, although differ a little too.

Ultimately, and we’ve had this conversation a few times, it seems that your position is perhaps that any pass Bruno misplaces is his ‘manager’s fault, don’t blame Bruno - he’s just following orders’, whereas I can’t see another player doing the same thing even under the same managers - and the small samples as you rightly pointed out, of others in the role don’t see them interpreting these tactics the same way.

I do think that a 10 with a greater command and greater respect for the ball would simply keep it better and link play better, regardless of whatever tactics we are deploying. Scholes and any if the Silvas wouldn’t interpret the role the same as Bruno. That said, and I think I’ve always been fair in this respect - I did not think a Silva or similar was so much the player we needed over a Bruno at the time we got him. The team wasn’t ready for one, and I agree that we also didn’t have the manager for one. Bruno was exactly the player we needed at the time - as he is a player who adds productivity to our disorganisation. I however also voiced quite early that I felt that the final evolution to a team with organised success would not have a place for Bruno. A team of that level would benefit far more greatly from a Silva than a Bruno, but Bruno suited us more at the time, by virtue of us having nothing to suit! He can be the ‘best player’ of the team, but can’t be the best player of the best team.

So to your mitigation that Bruno is in a dysfunctional team, my counter is that I believe his skillset can only possibly thrive in a dysfunctional team. And I also believe that he is a significant contributor to our dysfunction, rather than us being dysfunctional in spite of Bruno.

 

[Red the Bear]

I know he has in himself to not fecking give the ball away with every single pass, we've seen it before its in there.
His confidence is shot hopefully a pre-season will do him good and he regains it.

 

[romufc]

I know he has in himself to not fecking give the ball away with every single pass, we've seen it before its in there.
His confidence is shot hopefully a pre-season will do him good and he regains it.

What people don't realise is that when attacking players dont see the ball as much, they get frustrated so when they do get it, they feel like it has to count to something, which is why he tries killer passes so often.

In a possession based team, he can keep rotating ad then waiting for the right opportunity to play the killer pass.

I a quite intrigued to see what ETH will do with him, plenty think he should be dropped.

 

[Red the Bear]

What people don't realise is that when attacking players dont see the ball as much, they get frustrated so when they do get it, they feel like it has to count to something, which is why he tries killer passes so often.

In a possession based team, he can keep rotating ad then waiting for the right opportunity to play the killer pass.

I a quite intrigued to see what ETH will do with him, plenty think he should be dropped.

He can still have a bright future, but he definitely needs to work on his composure, he also hasn't played in a similar system before.

 

[Rozay]

In a possession based team, he can keep rotating ad then waiting for the right opportunity to play the killer pass.

I a quite intrigued to see what ETH will do with him, plenty think he should be dropped.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that at all. Keeping the ball is as much about skill than simply making a decision that ‘okay, I’ll rotate possession now’. It’s an ability, an ability to take the ball at various angles, turn with it if necessary, strength to hold off, movement to immediately move into a new passing lane the second you off load it and more. If you look at the midfielders deployed in these possession teams you speak of, they go for players of a certain profile and skillset - and I don’t think you could simply substitute Pedri with Bruno and expect the same results simply because you told him to keep it.

There is no indication at all that he is good enough for a possession side. The only qualities that have endeared him to many are his killer passes, workrate and goals. With the exception of workrate, those things are likely to be of a lower priority to the manager of a possession team. What exactly of Bruno’s game would endear him to such a side? He’d likely be of a significantly lower standard to the rest of the similar midfielders around him, and wouldn’t be able to play their way. Even Fabregas, who was far more talented than Bruno probably fell short at Barcelona. In the end they moved him out of the midfield and played him upfront more often than not.

It would have been easy to look at Jack Grealish last season, for example, and say that he will excel in a possession side, but I have no idea how anyone can watch Bruno and say that.

 

[romufc]

He can still have a bright future, but he definitely needs to work on his composure, he also hasn't played in a similar system before.

I think he has some credit left for me to give him next season to see if he can improve and suit ETH's system. From the sounds of it Ralf rates him, he is one of the only players Ralf has spoken positively about.

 

[romufc]

I don’t think it’s as simple as that at all. Keeping the ball is as much about skill than simply making a decision that ‘okay, I’ll rotate possession now’. It’s an ability, an ability to take the ball at various angles, turn with it if necessary, strength to hold off, movement to immediately move into a new passing lane the second you off load it and more. If you look at the midfielders deployed in these possession teams you speak of, they go for players of a certain profile and skillset - and I don’t think you could simply substitute Pedri with Bruno and expect the same results simply because you told him to keep it.

There is no indication at all that he is good enough for a possession side. The only qualities that have endeared him to many are his killer passes, workrate and goals. With the exception of workrate, those things are likely to be of a lower priority to the manager of a possession team. What exactly of Bruno’s game would endear him to such a side? He’d likely be of a significantly lower standard to the rest of the similar midfielders around him, and wouldn’t be able to play their way. Even Fabregas, who was far more talented than Bruno probably fell short at Barcelona. In the end they moved him out of the midfield and played him upfront more often than not.

It would have been easy to look at Jack Grealish last season, for example, and say that he will excel in a possession side, but I have no idea how anyone can watch Bruno and say that.

Yep, you might be right and he might not fit the system however; for what he has done for us, I am willing to see if he can adapt to a ETH system.

I am not saying he will be brilliant or crap, I want to see what a pre season with coaching the team can do in terms of lifting players performances.

ETH is known to get more out of players and if we can tweak Bruno's game in terms of being better at receiving the ball, he definitely has the quality on the ball

 

[Rozay]

Yep, you might be right and he might not fit the system however; for what he has done for us, I am willing to see if he can adapt to a ETH system.

I am not saying he will be brilliant or crap, I want to see what a pre season with coaching the team can do in terms of lifting players performances.

ETH is known to get more out of players and if we can tweak Bruno's game in terms of being better at receiving the ball, he definitely has the quality on the ball

Fair enough, I’m not as optimistic as you but it’s a view. We shall see.

 

[romufc]

Fair enough, I’m not as optimistic as you but it’s a view. We shall see.

I think we all also have recency Bias. I remember his first 6-8 months, he was absolutely fantastic, It was almost he was on a different level to any of our players. Maybe I am holding onto something that wasn't there, time will tell.

 

[Rozay]

I think we all also have recency Bias. I remember his first 6-8 months, he was absolutely fantastic, It was almost he was on a different level to any of our players. Maybe I am holding onto something that wasn't there, time will tell.

Perhaps. Personally, I have voiced my concerns about his game on here since the beginning, including this spell you speak of. I don’t think he’s just started giving the ball away now, he was doing it from the beginning, people just didn’t care as much as they do now. I can’t say I see a huge difference from then and now, and if you added 10 penalties to what Bruno has done this season, I suspect the narrative would not be much different to what it was back then, with the ‘evidence’ being in the numbers.

We were a better team then. Bruno didn’t carry the team at all, although he was an important part of it. He benefited from being new, and also being better than the total rubbish we had in the role before hand. But we also had three 20 goal forwards, Pogba and Matic also in form too, we were not the one man team people like to make out.

For me, more than Bruno needing to get back to the form or 2020, posters just need to get back to the feeling of 2020, which they will never get back as Bruno will never be an exciting and relatively unknown new signing again. It was always to be the case that once that wore off, the detail of the game would start being analysed more. All this current conversation about him giving the ball away now could have been had then, but everyone just swept it under the carpet and said they didn’t mind because he was trying to create things. Well, he’s still trying to create.

 

[ole@thewheel]

Opinions are so extreme on this place.

He’s definitely having an off season. The biggest difference is that he’s lost his mojo in front of goal. His finishing is off. I think the regular penalties he scored in previous seasons helped his confidence as a goalscorer. Without them he’s snatching at chances he would have put away easily. He’s not striking long shots as cleanly as before either. He’s just very short on self belief in front of goal.

Obviously he’s still creating loads of chances. And without him we create sweet feck all. So even when he’s not at his best he’s a vital player for us.

He does lose possession a lot. He always has done. It’s the same with all the most creative players in the league. It wouldn’t be a massive problem if it wasn’t for the fact that, as a team, we’re absolutely piss poor at winning the ball back after we lose it. Whenever City and Liverpool lose the ball trying to create there’s a good chance they win the ball back while it’s still in the final third. Not for us though. Not with the absolutely woeful defensive effort from our attacking players and the deeply flawed midfield behind them. We’re more likely to concede a shot at goal within seconds of a lose pass from Bruno than we are to quickly win possession back. Fix all of that, get Bruno playing with some confidence again and he will be by far the least of our problems.

I don't think it suits him playing as a box to box or a deeper midfielder. You can see his performances dropping since he was put to play deeper. One of the main reasons for that is that he is not that effective on carrying the ball more than a couple of yards forward.

And his mojo in front of the goal is not lost, he is just playing further away from the goal, hence having less chances. He took on less shot on avg than last year (2.5 to 3.5) and his XGper90 dropped significantly to (0.27 to 0.46).So he just got way fewer chances to score this year.

He is and always will be a false nine/second striker/free role advanced playmaker type of player. We should play him further forward and get the best of him and the team as a result.

 

[romufc]

Perhaps. Personally, I have voiced my concerns about his game on here since the beginning, including this spell you speak of. I don’t think he’s just started giving the ball away now, he was doing it from the beginning, people just didn’t care as much as they do now. I can’t say I see a huge difference from then and now, and if you added 10 penalties to what Bruno has done this season, I suspect the narrative would not be much different to what it was back then, with the ‘evidence’ being in the numbers.

We were a better team then. Bruno didn’t carry the team at all, although he was an important part of it. He benefited from being new, and also being better than the total rubbish we had in the role before hand. But we also had three 20 goal forwards, Pogba and Matic also in form too, we were not the one man team people like to make out.

For me, more than Bruno needing to get back to the form or 2020, posters just need to get back to the feeling of 2020, which they will never get back as Bruno will never be an exciting and relatively unknown new signing again. It was always to be the case that once that wore off, the detail of the game would start being analysed more. All this current conversation about him giving the ball away now could have been had then, but everyone just swept it under the carpet and said they didn’t mind because he was trying to create things. Well, he’s still trying to create.

Thing is I am not against him giving the ball away, in the right areas. What I want from him is, when the ball is in our half, not to lose the ball allowing the opposition to counter press or break on us.

We will still need to create chances and what we know with Bruno, he can find the killer pass so its up to the coach to make sure this happens.

Like I say, I back ETH to do what is right and if he decides Bruno isn't for him then I will accept that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think it suits him playing as a box to box or a deeper midfielder. You can see his performances dropping since he was put to play deeper. One of the main reasons for that is that he is not that effective on carrying the ball more than a couple of yards forward.

And his mojo in front of the goal is not lost, he is just playing further away from the goal, hence having less chances. He took on less shot on avg than last year (2.5 to 3.5) and his XGper90 dropped significantly to (0.27 to 0.46).So he just got way fewer chances to score this year.

He is and always will be a false nine/second striker/free role advanced playmaker type of player. We should play him further forward and get the best of him and the team as a result.

The fewer chances he gets the more likely he is to snatch at the ball and make a mess of converting them. I mentioned the lack of penalties for the same reason. When goals (and chances) are coming steadily, attacking players are much more likely to convert the next chance they get. Scoring goals is all about confidence and a drought can become self perpetuating. That’s what I meant about losing his mojo. Have you got any chance conversion comparisons?

 

[roonster09]

That’s a fair position to take, and I agree with it to a large degree, although differ a little too.

Ultimately, and we’ve had this conversation a few times, it seems that your position is perhaps that any pass Bruno misplaces is his ‘manager’s fault, don’t blame Bruno - he’s just following orders’, whereas I can’t see another player doing the same thing even under the same managers - and the small samples as you rightly pointed out, of others in the role don’t see them interpreting these tactics the same way.

I do think that a 10 with a greater command and greater respect for the ball would simply keep it better and link play better, regardless of whatever tactics we are deploying. Scholes and any if the Silvas wouldn’t interpret the role the same as Bruno. That said, and I think I’ve always been fair in this respect - I did not think a Silva or similar was so much the player we needed over a Bruno at the time we got him. The team wasn’t ready for one, and I agree that we also didn’t have the manager for one. Bruno was exactly the player we needed at the time - as he is a player who adds productivity to our disorganisation. I however also voiced quite early that I felt that the final evolution to a team with organised success would not have a place for Bruno. A team of that level would benefit far more greatly from a Silva than a Bruno, but Bruno suited us more at the time, by virtue of us having nothing to suit! He can be the ‘best player’ of the team, but can’t be the best player of the best team.

So to your mitigation that Bruno is in a dysfunctional team, my counter is that I believe his skillset can only possibly thrive in a dysfunctional team. And I also believe that he is a significant contributor to our dysfunction, rather than us being dysfunctional in spite of Bruno.

Fair enough, we will know the answer soon.

Also I didn't blame tactics for every missed pass, players should ofcourse be held responsible for poor performance and execution but we have seen how our rivals have elevated even average players to very good level because of the system manager has implemented. It can't be just coincidence that players suddenly play at lower level than their previous season as soon as they sign for us. Consistent trend is we hired poor managers who failed to get best out of the squad.

Like I said we will know the answer very soon, going by reports ETH won't accept any nonsense from players and they should play exactly as they are told to play. Let's see if Bruno retains his place in the team, or even in the squad.

 

[Rozay]

Thing is I am not against him giving the ball away, in the right areas. What I want from him is, when the ball is in our half, not to lose the ball allowing the opposition to counter press or break on us.

We will still need to create chances and what we know with Bruno, he can find the killer pass so its up to the coach to make sure this happens.

Like I say, I back ETH to do what is right and if he decides Bruno isn't for him then I will accept that.

Neither am I, I don’t require 100% pass success, I do expect better pass selection. Every team needs to create, but I don’t really want a player taking on such low probability creation as frequently as he does - any more than I want a player taking on low probability shots every time they are within 40 yards.

As you said, we will see, I just hope that it is allowed to be an honest process. I’ve seen managers try everything to fit Rooney into a team, for example, even Pogba at times, moving them out of the way where they can cause least damage. My fear is we will end up where I expect us to end up eventually, only that it will take a lot of wasted time to get there. That said, that perhaps is not being fair on Bruno and he deserves a crack to show what he can do.

 

[El Jefe]

Managers 22/22
City - Pep
Liverpool - Klopp
ManUtd - Ole and manager who isn't even a manager.

Of course, they're better and more well coached but that's not the main point.

Bruno based on how many less touches he has than Trent should really not be creating more than him. It may seem stupid me complaining about chances created but I felt the same with Giggs in SAF's final years, went for the killer ball far too much.

In Bruno's case it's the same. He must surely be a key factor in why we only manage 52% possession. Will definitely be something ETH looks at.

 

[roonster09]

Of course, they're better and more well coached but that's not the main point.

Bruno based on how many less touches he has than Trent should really not be creating more than him. It may seem stupid me complaining about chances created but I felt the same with Giggs in SAF's final years, went for the killer ball far too much.

In Bruno's case it's the same. He must surely be a key factor in why we only manage 52% possession. Will definitely be something ETH looks at.

No he isn't the key factor. The guy leading this team is.

 

[lost7]

Good performance by his current standards

 

[Desert Eagle]

Good performance by his current standards

Felt like more of the same shite to me

 

[Zlatan Ibrahomovic]

Looks like a donkey next to Mata. Can't control the ball in this tempo, can't run with it. Only dives and Hollywood passes.

 

[TsuWave]

He's so bad

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Good performance by his current standards

It was crap by any standards.