[horsechoker]

High risk players usually work in good teams because they can win the ball back easily. While De Bruyne can hit deadly accurate passes 90% of the time, it also helps that city can win the ball back quickly thus minimising risk.

Bruno shouldn't stop trying to make those passes, hopefully the understanding between players improves so Bruno knows when and how hard to hit it in order for the player to receive it.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Great player. Looks tired though. Concerning that we have no backup for him.

 

[LoneStar]

Don't think Ole trusts anyone else to play in Bruno's position. Personally I feel you could have rested Bruno by pushing Pogba forward and playing another of our deeper midfielders, but maybe he doesn't trust them either. I'd like to see Bruno given a rest but I'm not sure it'll happen with only 2 games to go.

That’s fair, but should have been taken off after we were 3-0 down. No chance of coming from that + we have to focus on the WH game.

 

[mav_9me]

Great player. Looks tired though. Concerning that we have no backup for him.

I mean we did just get him. Next step is finding a back up / getting Sancho so that we play different without Bruno.

 

[Anybody's Guess]

The fact that there are people complaining about the performances of Bruno in the last games is a damning indiction of how much the last decade or so has messed with the heads of a large part of the fan base.

Creative players are seemingly afforded zero room for mistakes, but subpar players that are experts in the art of slowing down play, the sideway pass or the back pass are given time to "improve and develop", while continuing to contribute nothing to the improvement of the style of play of the club.

Anyone who thought that Bruno was going to continue being as productive as he has been so far was always going to end up disappointed.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[Sylar]

Good man. Will help us be even better next season if we can get some more faces in.

Thats his first loss right?

 

[roonster09]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Class!

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

This is a pretty unique situation to be fair and I do honestly think even for a professional athlete it’s hard to expect perfect performances on 2 days rest.

 

[roonster09]

This is a pretty unique situation to be fair and I do honestly think even for a professional athlete it’s hard to expect perfect performances on 2 days rest.

Not just in this situation. I have nothing to back up my point btw, just the general feeling. You see players from so many clubs, they play the same core team in almost every game. Maybe they really have better fitness than us.

 

[Strelok]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

Because they basically walk those leagues.

They can play like 60-70 % and still win. There are like 4-5 tough matches and 1-2 odd matches where they'd have to go 100 % for an entire season. The gap is just too big. When they play against the smaller teams the papers only talk about how many goals they would score. And they have winter holidays.

 

[arnie_ni]

Lingard.

Sorry jumping in here. Are you saying we should bench him for lingard?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Not just in this situation. I have nothing to back up my point btw, just the general feeling. You see players from so many clubs, they play the same core team in almost every game. Maybe they really have better fitness than us.

Yeh to be honest I do understand your rental point and I’m also slightly concerned by it too. Think is, in our game against Spurs we were clearly the fitter team and looked to have come from the break looking very sharp but we have apparently nosedived.

 

[noodlehair]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

Fitness is something we still don't seem to have fully got our heads round in England, but also those teams do make changes from time to time particularly in the middle of the park. City/Liverpool who rely on high tempo football make changes in those areas...Chelsea don't really and they always seem to drop off a cliff around December time.

It's not like players will drop dead but small differences in energy levels aren't necessarily something you can get away with when games are already being won on fine margins. Not quite the same for Bayern for example who stroll through most games so have a margin of comfort they can drop into.

Fernandes was still running round like a maniac all game against Chelsea and his work rate is pretty exceptional by any standards. The number of games does still seem to have affected the quality of his performances though.

 

[sourdough satellite]

That’s just how I feel. I have little time for fluff commentary and the rest. When the likes of Sancho hopefully come in and nobody is talking about ‘impact to the team’ anymore - you are just a guy turning over possession again and again. It becomes more noticeable and more of an issue once your new player novelty has worn off. I don’t think I’ve seen anything that makes me think ‘yea, few other players could do that’. I’ve seen a few passes that few others could make ATTEMPTED, but not completed.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s a very good player, and night and day between the rubbish he has replaced in our team - but for a supposed elite side, where another player wants your spot - the door is always open for as I think there is a gap between his quality and the very best, and we are the sort of club where someone might actually be good enough to come in and fill that gap. For arguments sake, I think Greenwood and Sancho will soon enter the conversation for the 10 role assuming Sancho signs. I wouldn’t fancy Bruno in a fight with either over an 18 month spell. I think they are simply higher quality. Bruno, even when playing well, can’t do what they can with the ball I don’t think.

I’m not saying he should be sold or anything, but I expect him to level out as a squad player here, but of the calibre of squad player a top team should have. Someone who could possibly go and start for Spurs. But not every week for City, Barcelona, Real and hopefully, United. I appreciate he is walking on water at the moment, and I had been reluctant to go into detail about my views. That said, it’s important to say it when you feel it, otherwise later someone will call you reactionary. If my view changes later, I’ll say it then.

Sancho as a no. 10 is a terrible idea, you would be nullifying one of his biggest strengths, which is his blistering pace. As for Greenwood, he looks like a striker to me.

 

[Betson]

Even on his poorer days he is still by far our most creative player and one most likely to do something that will turn the game for us , his workrate is always exceptional and has to be the first name on the team sheet every game.

Imagine where we would be if we had not signed him.

 

[Strelok]

Fitness is something we still don't seem to have fully got our heads round in England, but also those teams do make changes from time to time particularly in the middle of the park. City/Liverpool who rely on high tempo football make changes in those areas...Chelsea don't really and they always seem to drop off a cliff around December time.

It's not like players will drop dead but small differences in energy levels aren't necessarily something you can get away with when games are already being won on fine margins. Not quite the same for Bayern for example who stroll through most games so have a margin of comfort they can drop into.

Fernandes was still running round like a maniac all game against Chelsea and his work rate is pretty exceptional by any standards. The number of games does still seem to have affected the quality of his performances though.

Agreed.

Liverpool they seem to run a lot but as I watch them, those who actually run a lot are only their midfielders. They have some very hard working, great stamina, decent midfielders and they're actually their engine. One thing I notice looking at their total number of minutes per player is those like VVD, Mane, Salah, Arnold, Roberson, Firmino have the similar numbers around 3300-3700 minutes. While their first XI midfielders has the max 2800' in Henderson, Fabinho only has 2200'. That means they just rotate a lot in the midfield where their actual engine is.

City seems to rotate even more as none of their player has more than 3000', except KDB and Ederson who have like 3100'.

So in the end it's rather an issue of squad depth imo. Both number and quality of course.

Of course I don't watch them much so it's just my thought. Hope some of their fans here would give an opinion on this.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

The leagues and fixtures have to be considered.
They also have squad depths, too strong for their arguably weaker leagues.

EPL have greater "weaker" teams.

Because they basically walk those leagues.

They can play like 60-70 % and still win. There are like 4-5 tough matches and 1-2 odd matches where they'd have to go 100 % for an entire season. The gap is just too big. When they play against the smaller teams the papers only talk about how many goals they would score. And they have winter holidays.

This.

 

[roonster09]

Fitness is something we still don't seem to have fully got our heads round in England, but also those teams do make changes from time to time particularly in the middle of the park. City/Liverpool who rely on high tempo football make changes in those areas...Chelsea don't really and they always seem to drop off a cliff around December time.

It's not like players will drop dead but small differences in energy levels aren't necessarily something you can get away with when games are already being won on fine margins. Not quite the same for Bayern for example who stroll through most games so have a margin of comfort they can drop into.

Fernandes was still running round like a maniac all game against Chelsea and his work rate is pretty exceptional by any standards. The number of games does still seem to have affected the quality of his performances though.

Just take Liverpool as example, (Will ignore this season as this season is completely unpredictable with pandemic, big breaks and unrealistic schedule).

2018-19
Van Dijk - 4590 mins - 51 games
Salah - 4342 mins - 52 games
Mane - 4309 mins - 50 games
Robertson - 4227 mins - 48 games
Wijnaldum - 3705 mins - 47 games
Firmino - 3406 mins - 48 games
TAA - 3388 mins - 40 games
Fabinho - 2916 mins - 41 games

Fabinho was new signing, so didnt start from the go. Then you see the core, they all played many games and they won CL, made 97 points in the league, they also play high intensity football. If we check Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Juventus squads, it might be same too.

Like I said I don't have much to back up my claim, it was just general observation.

 

[kouroux]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

I think other fans talk about it just as much as us. We're not worse nor better than other sets of fans.

 

[Escobar]

High risk players usually work in good teams because they can win the ball back easily. While De Bruyne can hit deadly accurate passes 90% of the time, it also helps that city can win the ball back quickly thus minimising risk.

Bruno shouldn't stop trying to make those passes, hopefully the understanding between players improves so Bruno knows when and how hard to hit it in order for the player to receive it.

He needs to take those passes. If it comes off, it is exactly that one moment that changes the game. I loved some of his first time passes into the channels on Sunday. Even though it did not work out, it showed the right intention

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I think Bruno's body is still adapting to the new league and especially more so the new environment and definitely climate.

Sunny Portugal~

Which would explain why he seems to be affected so much by fatigue in the most recent 2-3 games, compare to other players in our team and other teams.

Looking at his past records, his fitness is amazing and fatigue-resistant.

 

[11101]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

We wouldn't talk about it so much either if we could coast as many games as they do.

The intensity of games in England makes it so much harder fitness wise. Even the cannon fodder will make you run hard.

 

[roonster09]

We wouldn't talk about it so much either if we could coast as many games as they do.

The intensity of games in England makes it so much harder fitness wise. Even the cannon fodder will make you run hard.

Just take Liverpool as example, (Will ignore this season as this season is completely unpredictable with pandemic, big breaks and unrealistic schedule).

2018-19
Van Dijk - 4590 mins - 51 games
Salah - 4342 mins - 52 games
Mane - 4309 mins - 50 games
Robertson - 4227 mins - 48 games
Wijnaldum - 3705 mins - 47 games
Firmino - 3406 mins - 48 games
TAA - 3388 mins - 40 games
Fabinho - 2916 mins - 41 games

Fabinho was new signing, so didnt start from the go. Then you see the core, they all played many games and they won CL, made 97 points in the league, they also play high intensity football. If we check Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Juventus squads, it might be same too.

Like I said I don't have much to back up my claim, it was just general observation.

...

 

[11101]

...

Have you watched Liverpool lately? They look desperately tired and are a shadow of their early season form.

 

[zenith]

I'd rather he try and make two crucial passes leading to goals on every game than just run around all day long.

Perfectly fine with his high risk game but not sure we have the best set up for that right now. We need a makalele or kante type player to stabilize the system to ensure that him and pogba are able to create with max efficiency.

 

[Mainoldo]

Just take Liverpool as example, (Will ignore this season as this season is completely unpredictable with pandemic, big breaks and unrealistic schedule).

2018-19
Van Dijk - 4590 mins - 51 games
Salah - 4342 mins - 52 games
Mane - 4309 mins - 50 games
Robertson - 4227 mins - 48 games
Wijnaldum - 3705 mins - 47 games
Firmino - 3406 mins - 48 games
TAA - 3388 mins - 40 games
Fabinho - 2916 mins - 41 games

Fabinho was new signing, so didnt start from the go. Then you see the core, they all played many games and they won CL, made 97 points in the league, they also play high intensity football. If we check Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Juventus squads, it might be same too.

Like I said I don't have much to back up my claim, it was just general observation.

Basically it’s not an excuse we are just abit sh&t

 

[Mainoldo]

Have you watched Liverpool lately? They look desperately tired and are a shadow of their early season form.

They’ve won the league. I’d be inclined to say they’ve stopped caring.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'd rather he try and make two crucial passes leading to goals on every game than just run around all day long.

Perfectly fine with his high risk game but not sure we have the best set up for that right now. We need a makalele or kante type player to stabilize the system to ensure that him and pogba are able to create with max efficiency.

Agreed. I would also like him to start much deeper to help us win the midfield battle first.

 

[roonster09]

Have you watched Liverpool lately? They look desperately tired and are a shadow of their early season form.

Just take Liverpool as example, (Will ignore this season as this season is completely unpredictable with pandemic, big breaks and unrealistic schedule).

2018-19
Van Dijk - 4590 mins - 51 games
Salah - 4342 mins - 52 games
Mane - 4309 mins - 50 games
Robertson - 4227 mins - 48 games
Wijnaldum - 3705 mins - 47 games
Firmino - 3406 mins - 48 games
TAA - 3388 mins - 40 games
Fabinho - 2916 mins - 41 games

Fabinho was new signing, so didnt start from the go. Then you see the core, they all played many games and they won CL, made 97 points in the league, they also play high intensity football. If we check Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Juventus squads, it might be same too.

Like I said I don't have much to back up my claim, it was just general observation.

Just to highlight relevant part which says this is not for this season as due to pandemic the schedule is unrealistic, all this numbers are from last season.

 

[Stacks]

Sometimes I feel only ManUtd fans talk about all the tiredness, fatigue. You see players from Madrid, Barca, Bayern who plays every single min but somehow their levels dont drop.

yep. I always object to the tiredness excuse and you can see it in my historical posts. Some posters talk about players being tired by like October as a reason for poor performance and I am in a state of shock. Was tiredness mentioned so much under Ferguson era?

Because they basically walk those leagues.

They can play like 60-70 % and still win. There are like 4-5 tough matches and 1-2 odd matches where they'd have to go 100 % for an entire season. The gap is just too big. When they play against the smaller teams the papers only talk about how many goals they would score. And they have winter holidays.

City and LIverpool can also walk our leagues. In fact City and Liverpool have accrued far more points these last 2 seasons than Barca and Real combined and scored more goals. So if their games are easier, and they play only 60-70% why they get so few points and goals in comparison?

The leagues and fixtures have to be considered.
They also have squad depths, too strong for their arguably weaker leagues.

EPL have greater "weaker" teams.


This.

See above. the recent performance of City and Liverpool in the premier league argues against this. Real and Barca do not win as many games as City or Liverpool nor score as many goals. City take the piss and get so many thrashings, every now and again. Time to move on from these old troupes about the competitiveness of the premier league and weakness of others. All we had to do is get the best 2 coaches, combined with financial backing and you have the same dominance as seen in other leagues.

Just take Liverpool as example, (Will ignore this season as this season is completely unpredictable with pandemic, big breaks and unrealistic schedule).

2018-19
Van Dijk - 4590 mins - 51 games
Salah - 4342 mins - 52 games
Mane - 4309 mins - 50 games
Robertson - 4227 mins - 48 games
Wijnaldum - 3705 mins - 47 games
Firmino - 3406 mins - 48 games
TAA - 3388 mins - 40 games
Fabinho - 2916 mins - 41 games

Fabinho was new signing, so didnt start from the go. Then you see the core, they all played many games and they won CL, made 97 points in the league, they also play high intensity football. If we check Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Juventus squads, it might be same too.

Like I said I don't have much to back up my claim, it was just general observation.

thank you for this. There is always an excuse when you lose.

We wouldn't talk about it so much either if we could coast as many games as they do.

The intensity of games in England makes it so much harder fitness wise. Even the cannon fodder will make you run hard.

City dominate possesion so how much running do they actually do?

 

[11101]

yep. I always object to the tiredness excuse and you can see it in my historical posts. Some posters talk about players being tired by like October as a reason for poor performance and I am in a state of shock. Was tiredness mentioned so much under Ferguson era?

City and LIverpool can also walk our leagues. In fact City and Liverpool have accrued far more points these last 2 seasons than Barca and Real combined and scored more goals. So if their games are easier, and they play only 60-70% why they get so few points and goals in comparison?



See above. the recent performance of City and Liverpool in the premier league argues against this. Real and Barca do not win as many games as City or Liverpool nor score as many goals. City take the piss and get so many thrashings, every now and again. Time to move on from these old troupes about the competitiveness of the premier league and weakness of others. All we had to do is get the best 2 coaches, combined with financial backing and you have the same dominance as seen in other leagues.


thank you for this. There is always an excuse when you lose.


City dominate possesion so how much running do they actually do?

But we're not City or Liverpool miles out in front. We are right in the thick of it and have had to play out of our skins down to Game 38 every single season recently. It's not 2008, we're not good enough to have easy games anymore.

The English league is more physically demanding than the other big leagues, everybody from analysts to players and managers say it. I don't see why people want to question that. You just have to watch the games.

 

[JPRouve]

City and LIverpool can also walk our leagues. In fact City and Liverpool have accrued far more points these last 2 seasons than Barca and Real combined and scored more goals. So if their games are easier, and they play only 60-70% why they get so few points and goals in comparison?

You are implying it but because in Spain there is always 5 or 6 really tough teams to play, it's just not always the same teams. This year until the Covid break it was Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico, Getafe, Real Sociedad and Sevilla, though Getafe and Real Sociedad struggled in June-July.

 

[Stacks]

You are implying it but because they don't in Spain there is always 5 or 6 real tough teams to play, it's just not always the same teams. This year until the Covid break it was Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico, Getafe, Real Sociedad and Sevilla, though Getafe and Real Sociedad struggled in June-July.

explains why they don't get 95 points per season anymore

 

[Stacks]

But we're not City or Liverpool miles out in front. We are right in the thick of it and have had to play out of our skins down to Game 38 every single season recently. It's not 2008, we're not good enough to have easy games anymore.

The English league is more physically demanding than the other big leagues, everybody from analysts to players and managers say it. I don't see why people want to question that. You just have to watch the games.

fair points

 

[Strelok]

City and LIverpool can also walk our leagues. In fact City and Liverpool have accrued far more points these last 2 seasons than Barca and Real combined and scored more goals. So if their games are easier, and they play only 60-70% why they get so few points and goals in comparison?

Do you really think City and Liverpool could play 60-70 % for 25-30 matches a season and still win ? And have you ever watched La Liga or the Bundesliga on a regular basis, for an entire season?

City and Liverpool happened to have record points, but they don't walk the league the way Madrid, Barca, Bayern, PSG walk their league. And they have winter holidays. PL is the most physically demanding and toughest league in the world. Basically no match is easy here. Where anyone can beat anyone on their day. There are always like 15 solid teams instead of 4-5 ones in the Liga, Bundesliga or L1. That's a big reason why PL is the most popular and fun to watch in the world.

I really don't understand why people would deny that

 

[Strelok]

Just take Liverpool as example, (Will ignore this season as this season is completely unpredictable with pandemic, big breaks and unrealistic schedule).

2018-19
Van Dijk - 4590 mins - 51 games
Salah - 4342 mins - 52 games
Mane - 4309 mins - 50 games
Robertson - 4227 mins - 48 games
Wijnaldum - 3705 mins - 47 games
Firmino - 3406 mins - 48 games
TAA - 3388 mins - 40 games
Fabinho - 2916 mins - 41 games

Fabinho was new signing, so didnt start from the go. Then you see the core, they all played many games and they won CL, made 97 points in the league, they also play high intensity football. If we check Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Juventus squads, it might be same too.

Like I said I don't have much to back up my claim, it was just general observation.

Have a look in the numbers of their midfielders and you'd see that they rotated a lot in the midfield. As I said only their midfielders run a lot to provide the engine. That's probably why they can keep playing their other core players that much without running them to the ground.

https://www.anfield-online.co.uk/stats/2018-19/2018-19-lfc-stats.html

 

[roonster09]

Have a look in the numbers of their midfielders and you'd see that they rotated a lot in the midfield. As I said only their midfielders run a lot to provide the engine. That's probably why they can keep playing their other core players that much without running them to the ground.

https://www.anfield-online.co.uk/stats/2018-19/2018-19-lfc-stats.html

Fabinho didn't start till around november time, from that time he played almost every game. Their FBs work as hard as anyone, still they played many games. Same with Wijnaldum, he played almost every game.

 

[romufc]

Fabinho didn't start till around november time, from that time he played almost every game. Their FBs work as hard as anyone, still they played many games. Same with Wijnaldum, he played almost every game.

I have said this all along. When you want to win titles, your core team has to play majority of the games. Teams will rotate earlier in the season to find the right balance, come Ocotber / November they will find that and start the same team if everyone is fit.

Liverpool played almost the same team in 18/19 in PL and CL games, they got to the final and took city to the last game.
Leicester and Wolves this season have had good seasons because their core players were playing most games, as soon as they got hit with injuries, you saw Leicester drop.

It is the managers job to make sure these guys are fit.