Brexit related judicial reviews: Supreme Court | Judgment: Prorogation was unlawful

[Pat_Mustard]

But you said you researched outside of the mainstream papers? Broadsheets are mainstream papers, and you don't get much more mainstream than the BBC.

Unless you're fact checking what you're being told by other people, it's not reliable research at all.

You keep telling people to "research", said that they had to do it outside of mainstream papers, and now you're telling us that your research were the same mainstream papers you were telling people to avoid, and what we can only assume was a bunch of random people of unknown reliability.

As the only bit of research you've apparently done outside of the mainstream media, I'm very interested in what exactly these people who voted leave and remain told you? For someone who apparently had their opinion so drastically changed by their research, particularly the research that took place outside of the mainstream media, it strikes me as incredibly odd that this research consisted solely of a few chats. You've seemingly not fact checked any of it, because you've not managed to come with some proper sources for these things you've been told that affected you so greatly.

Have you got anything concrete? Something that's not, "my mate said..."?

Brutal.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

You have deliberately misread my posts.

You have absolutely nothing of worth to say accept to attack people who do not believe in your ideals. I don't see any original thoughts or ideas flowing out of your keyboard.

But this is just obfuscation, again. It's totally reasonable for people to want some actual sources after you've told them there are sources outside the mainstream powerful enough to change your vote.

I expect if you reply to this post, you'll attack the content of it rather than actually providing any of these sources, yet again.

 

[Wibble]

But you said you researched outside of the mainstream papers? Broadsheets are mainstream papers, and you don't get much more mainstream than the BBC.

Unless you're fact checking what you're being told by other people, it's not reliable research at all.

You keep telling people to "research", said that they had to do it outside of mainstream papers, and now you're telling us that your research were the same mainstream papers you were telling people to avoid, and what we can only assume was a bunch of random people of unknown reliability.

As the only bit of research you've apparently done outside of the mainstream media, I'm very interested in what exactly these people who voted leave and remain told you? For someone who apparently had their opinion so drastically changed by their research, particularly the research that took place outside of the mainstream media, it strikes me as incredibly odd that this research consisted solely of a few chats. You've seemingly not fact checked any of it, because you've not managed to come with some proper sources for these things you've been told that affected you so greatly.

Have you got anything concrete? Something that's not, "my mate said..."?

Got kicked in the head by a horse?

 

[Wibble]

Many years into this shit show and I've yet to hear any justification for leaving the EU thst isn't the equivalent of voluntarily amputating both legs above the knee because you have a veruca on your left big toe.

After all amputate means amputate.

Even if the amputate campaign said it wasn't a veruka but rather stage 4 melanoma/leg ebola that was costing us 14 billion quid per minute - monry that would be better spent giving schools and hospitals all the gold they could eat.

 

[owlo]

Rees Moggs sister is just as cretinous as him.

MP's and MEP's openly questioning our judiciary? No problem it seems.

No wonder with useless toads like Buckland and Cox who can't even bring themselves to resign. What is even the point of the oath?

 

[Alex99]

You have deliberately misread my posts.

You have absolutely nothing of worth to say accept to attack people who do not believe in your ideals. I don't see any original thoughts or ideas flowing out of your keyboard.

How have I misread them? I've literally repeated your own words back to you.

You can't just accuse people of bullying or attacking you because they've called out your incredibly strange and completely unsubstantiated claims.

I've not claimed to have any original thoughts. Once again you're trying to deflect when you are the one claiming to have stumbled across some life-changing research, that you're now apparently unable to share.

I am genuinely interested in this research (if it exists), but it's becoming increasingly apparent that you're just making things up as you go, then crying "bully" when someone challenges your bullshit.

You said the pound didn't collapse, then it was pointed out to you that it in fact, did. You then said it wasn't a prolonged collapse, but a flash crash, moving the goalposts. You were then informed that the value has continued to fall over the three years following the flash crash, and basically turned around and said that you still don't count that as a collapse, and then accused the person who rightly challenged your bogus claims of bullying you.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The context is completely different and you know it.

You are just a bully

A bully? For pointing out that you are wrong?

You said the pound did not collapse. i (and others) pointed out that it did. You can try shape "collapse" however you want but it simply does fit the term. To have dropped so much in three years is almost unprecedented for a major nation.

I think you need to revisit these reasons you would now vote to leave, quite frankly. It's clear you've been misled by whomever is telling you them (and we all know it's either some bullshit website or some "mates" who haven't a clue themselves). Go onto reputable websites, get the hard facts of the impact leaving will actually have on the UK because it is clear you don't realize how bad things will get and you're not presenting any tangible reasons as to why it would actually be worth that hardship. Hell, there are plenty of posters better informed than me in here (JP and Paul, for a start) who know most of the facts and can educate you too, if that's easier.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

You can't count the 18m not eligible to vote, that's like saying that toddler there didn't back no deal.

Granted, even though they're not all toddlers.

But it's important context when people are throwing around this "will of the people" nonsense when it's not just the futures of those that voted which is at stake.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Granted, even though they're not all toddlers.

But it's important context when people are throwing around this "will of the people" nonsense when it's not just the futures of those that voted which is at stake.

By the time Brexit actually comes to fruition a lot of those who voted leave will be dead anyway.

 

[Rado_N]

A bully? For pointing out that you are wrong?

You said the pound did not collapse. i (and others) pointed out that it did. You can try shape "collapse" however you want but it simply does fit the term. To have dropped so much in three years is almost unprecedented for a major nation.

I think you need to revisit these reasons you would now vote to leave, quite frankly. It's clear you've been misled by whomever is telling you them (and we all know it's either some bullshit website or some "mates" who haven't a clue themselves). Go onto reputable websites, get the hard facts of the impact leaving will actually have on the UK because it is clear you don't realize how bad things will get and you're not presenting any tangible reasons as to why it would actually be worth that hardship. Hell, there are plenty of posters better informed than me in here (JP and Paul, for a start) who know most of the facts and can educate you too, if that's easier.

People are sick of experts.

 

[Maagge]

People are sick of experts.

Should've asked a judge then.

 

[esmufc07]

Is K13 @WensleyMU ?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Is K13 @WensleyMU ?

His wife.

 

[Jippy]

But it's important context when people are throwing around this "will of the people" nonsense when it's not just the futures of those that voted which is at stake.

That's one of the flaws of democracy though- the vote of a dying 99 year old counts, but that of a healthy 17 year old doesn't.

I would like to see the use of the phrase 'will of the people' made punishable by stoning though.

 

[Smores]

Is K13 @WensleyMU ?

Didn't appear until WUM was thread banned so most probably.

 

[K13]

A bully? For pointing out that you are wrong?

You said the pound did not collapse. i (and others) pointed out that it did. You can try shape "collapse" however you want but it simply does fit the term. To have dropped so much in three years is almost unprecedented for a major nation.

I think you need to revisit these reasons you would now vote to leave, quite frankly. It's clear you've been misled by whomever is telling you them (and we all know it's either some bullshit website or some "mates" who haven't a clue themselves). Go onto reputable websites, get the hard facts of the impact leaving will actually have on the UK because it is clear you don't realize how bad things will get and you're not presenting any tangible reasons as to why it would actually be worth that hardship. Hell, there are plenty of posters better informed than me in here (JP and Paul, for a start) who know most of the facts and can educate you too, if that's easier.

I have no need to revisit my decision thank you.

You assume you are right because you have taken the same data as we have all had access to and come to a different conclusion as to what it all means. I have debated with both of these individuals and one did not even understand the implications on the relationship between Nato and the European Union. It is so blinkered when you just listen to half an argument and follow the crowd based on lazy assumptions.

No one on here has any right to state they are right unless they have a crystal ball. The arrogance is breath taking.

To top it all you believe those who voted to leave will all be dead if there is another referendum which is complete nonsense if you actually look at the voting stats outside the main stream headlines.

Perhaps this thread should be renamed the remain thread. I for one will not waste another minute of my time trying to discuss issues with individuals who seem to believe that their views are superior.

 

[Smores]

I have no need to revisit my decision thank you.

You assume you are right because you have taken the same data as we have all had access to and come to a different conclusion as to what it all means. I have debated with both of these individuals and one did not even understand the implications on the relationship between Nato and the European Union. It is so blinkered when you just listen to half an argument and follow the crowd based on lazy assumptions.

No one on here has any right to state they are right unless they have a crystal ball. The arrogance is breath taking.

To top it all you believe those who voted to leave will all be dead if there is another referendum which is complete nonsense if you actually look at the voting stats outside the main stream headlines.

Perhaps this thread should be renamed the remain thread. I for one will not waste another minute of my time trying to discuss issues with individuals who seem to believe that their views are superior.

Thats right run away defeated

The voting data very much shows that leave no longer has a majority due to deaths since.

 

[SteveJ]

Ludicrous stuff from Johnson at the UN:

“In the future, voice connectivity will be in every room and almost every object: your mattress will monitor your nightmares; your fridge will beep for more cheese.”

“A future Alexa will pretend to take orders. But this Alexa will be watching you, clucking her tongue and stamping her foot.”

“You may keep secrets from your friends, from your parents, your children, your doctor – even your personal trainer – but it takes real effort to conceal your thoughts from Google.”

“AI – what will it mean? Helpful robots washing and caring for an ageing population? Or pink-eyed terminators sent back from the future to cull the human race?”

“What will synthetic biology stand for – restoring our livers and our eyes with miracle regeneration of the tissues, like some fantastic hangover cure? Or will it bring terrifying limbless chickens to our tables?”

“When Prometheus brought fire to mankind. In a tube of fennel, as you may remember, that Zeus punished him by chaining him to a Tartarean crag while his liver was pecked out by an eagle. And every time his liver regrew the eagle came back and pecked it again. And this went on forever – a bit like the experience of Brexit in the UK, if some of our parliamentarians had their way.”

 

[One Night Only]

What's this whole Lisbon treaty thing about?

Facebook bullshit to fit an agenda?

 

[Massive Spanner]

I have no need to revisit my decision thank you.

You assume you are right because you have taken the same data as we have all had access to and come to a different conclusion as to what it all means. I have debated with both of these individuals and one did not even understand the implications on the relationship between Nato and the European Union. It is so blinkered when you just listen to half an argument and follow the crowd based on lazy assumptions.

No one on here has any right to state they are right unless they have a crystal ball. The arrogance is breath taking.

To top it all you believe those who voted to leave will all be dead if there is another referendum which is complete nonsense if you actually look at the voting stats outside the main stream headlines.

Perhaps this thread should be renamed the remain thread. I for one will not waste another minute of my time trying to discuss issues with individuals who seem to believe that their views are superior.

Sigh, the problem is that you haven't debated. You came into the thread, you said you voted remain and changed to leave because you "researched" it from alternative sources, then when asked to present those sources, you continued to refuse, until finally shifting completely away from that and just said "the BBC and a few mates".

it's always the same with Leave voters like you in this thread. You come in, you say "I've all these tangible reasons for Leaving that make perfect sense" and then you can't actually provide anything to back yourself up. Pure hyperbole and wild predictions not based on any credible factual information whatsoever. Is it any wonder people in here are getting fed up when they see the same old shit from you and others time and time again?

You're right, this thread is very remain oriented, you're on a relatively left-wing forum, you should've known this before you came into this thread and said you changed your mind to vote leave without presenting any credible reasons for doing so, and when challenged on your views and proven wrong on numerous things you said, started claiming people were bullying you and attacking you, so what did you actually expect to happen with an attitude and blind ignorance like that?

Your NATO claim is also interesting, you say both of those posters don't understand it .. but you do. Well, that's perfectly fine to claim, if you can actually back yourself up and present tangible facts as to why you are right and they are clueless. So.. go on?

I don't believe my views are superior at all. All I've asked from you is your research that you claimed you had for why you would now vote leave, but you haven't given any. I'm genuinely interested in hearing why people would do it and what the benefits to doing it are that outweight what I perceive to be the severe negatives, but you haven't given anything, just made loads of incorrect statements with no proof to back yourself up, so forgive me for coming across "superior" when presented with nonsensical arguments.

EDIT: Also, the "dead" thing was obviously tongue in cheek, to be clear, I didn't think I'd need to point that out, but there you go.

 

[Eric7C]

Sigh, the problem is that you haven't debated. You came into the thread, you said you voted remain and changed to leave because you "researched" it from alternative sources, then when asked to present those sources, you continued to refuse, until finally shifting completely away from that and just said "the BBC and a few mates".

it's always the same with Leave voters like you in this thread. You come in, you say "I've all these tangible reasons for Leaving that make perfect sense" and then you can't actually provide anything to back yourself up. Pure hyperbole and wild predictions not based on any credible factual information whatsoever. Is it any wonder people in here are getting fed up when they see the same old shit from you and others time and time again?

You're right, this thread is very remain oriented, you're on a relatively left-wing forum, you should've known this before you came into this thread and said you changed your mind to vote leave without presenting any credible reasons for doing so, and when challenged on your views and proven wrong on numerous things you said, started claiming people were bullying you and attacking you, so what did you actually expect to happen with an attitude and blind ignorance like that?

Your NATO claim is also interesting, you say both of those posters don't understand it .. but you do. Well, that's perfectly fine to claim, if you can actually back yourself up and present tangible facts as to why you are right and they are clueless. So.. go on?

I don't believe my views are superior at all. All I've asked from you is your research that you claimed you had for why you would now vote leave, but you haven't given any. I'm genuinely interested in hearing why people would do it and what the benefits to doing it are that outweight what I perceive to be the severe negatives, but you haven't given anything, just made loads of incorrect statements with no proof to back yourself up, so forgive me for coming across "superior" when presented with nonsensical arguments.

EDIT: Also, the "dead" thing was obviously tongue in cheek, to be clear, I didn't think I'd need to point that out, but there you go.

She didn't even do that. She said she voted remain but could see merits to the other side of the argument. Intentionally obfuscating from the beginning.

 

[Massive Spanner]

She didn't even do that. She said she voted remain but could see merits to the other side of the argument. Intentionally obfuscating from the beginning.

Yeah I meant she changed her mind and would vote leave now.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

She didn't even do that. She said she voted remain but could see merits to the other side of the argument. Intentionally obfuscating from the beginning.

She claimed she voted remain but then her mate told her about some incredible, complex and intricate reasons that Brexit will be bloody brilliant and so she decided Leave was better and if there is another referendum she'll vote leave.

She did some "research outside the mainstream" like the Broadsheet national newspapers and an obscure little thing called the BBC just to make sure her mate was telling her the truth and turns out he was! Brexit will be glorious, especially a no deal Brexit!

Unfortunately, the reasons are so difficult to understand, she can't and won't explain them to us on here and if you ask for any details you're just a bully.

 

[JPRouve]

I have no need to revisit my decision thank you.

You assume you are right because you have taken the same data as we have all had access to and come to a different conclusion as to what it all means. I have debated with both of these individuals and one did not even understand the implications on the relationship between Nato and the European Union. It is so blinkered when you just listen to half an argument and follow the crowd based on lazy assumptions.

No one on here has any right to state they are right unless they have a crystal ball. The arrogance is breath taking.

To top it all you believe those who voted to leave will all be dead if there is another referendum which is complete nonsense if you actually look at the voting stats outside the main stream headlines.

Perhaps this thread should be renamed the remain thread. I for one will not waste another minute of my time trying to discuss issues with individuals who seem to believe that their views are superior.

There is none, leaving or joining the EU has no implication on NATO. EU members are individual members within NATO. But you are welcome to expose the link and actually explain what you meant by "security".

 

[Eric7C]

She claimed she voted remain but then her mate told her about some incredible, complex and intricate reasons that Brexit will be bloody brilliant and so she decided Leave was better and if there is another referendum she'll vote leave.

She did some "research outside the mainstream" like the Broadsheet national newspapers and an obscure little thing called the BBC just to make sure her mate was telling her the truth and turns out he was! Brexit will be glorious, especially a no deal Brexit!

Unfortunately, the reasons are so difficult to understand, she can't and won't explain them to us on here and if you ask for any details you're just a bully.

 

[Eric7C]

Yeah I meant she changed her mind and would vote leave now.

Yes, and she only said that when pushed on whether she would vote leave now, while all the while giving the impression that she belonged to his exclusive (but also majority) club of remain "moderates" who didn't read the Mail or the Guardian. Unbelievable.

 

[Rado_N]

Should've asked a judge then.

 

[SteveJ]

Good god...

Boris Johnson is a winner like Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola, Michael Gove has said. The Cabinet Office minister told LBC:

"I think it is only fair to say that Boris is the Pep Guardiola of British politics."

I guess Pep's not the only one on drugs.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Good god...

I guess Pep's not the only one on drugs.

 

[Buster15]

Remember Till Death Do Us Part, Johnny Speight the writer was upset that people didn't object more to his main character, Alf Garnett, bigot and racist, because they thought it was acceptable behaviour.

Blimey that takes me back. Now that was actually a very funny series. I thought that Dandy Nicholls his wife was easily the funniest. I remember the one where he was sitting in a waiting room with his son in law waiting to give blood. And at the end of the row of people was a coloured man.
Enough said.

I spoke yesterday with a friend of mine who is a passionate leaver. He previously told me that one reason for voting to leave was to, and I quote 'take back control, not just of our borders but our laws from the EU'.
Yesterday, he was complaining that the courts were trying to prevent us leaving the EU.....
He has fully bought into the Parliament Against The People tactic of Mr Bumble.
And I am afraid to say that so have many other people.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Blimey that takes me back. Now that was actually a very funny series. I thought that Dandy Nicholls his wife was easily the funniest. I remember the one where he was sitting in a waiting room with his son in law waiting to give blood. And at the end of the row of people was a coloured man.
Enough said.

I spoke yesterday with a friend of mine who is a passionate leaver. He previously told me that one reason for voting to leave was to, and I quote 'take back control, not just of our borders but our laws from the EU'.
Yesterday, he was complaining that the courts were trying to prevent us leaving the EU.....
He has fully bought into the Parliament Against The People tactic of Mr Bumble.
And I am afraid to say that so have many other people.

Apologies, I was confused for a minute. I read that as passionate lover.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

I have no need to revisit my decision thank you.

You assume you are right because you have taken the same data as we have all had access to and come to a different conclusion as to what it all means. I have debated with both of these individuals and one did not even understand the implications on the relationship between Nato and the European Union. It is so blinkered when you just listen to half an argument and follow the crowd based on lazy assumptions.

No one on here has any right to state they are right unless they have a crystal ball. The arrogance is breath taking.

To top it all you believe those who voted to leave will all be dead if there is another referendum which is complete nonsense if you actually look at the voting stats outside the main stream headlines.

Perhaps this thread should be renamed the remain thread. I for one will not waste another minute of my time trying to discuss issues with individuals who seem to believe that their views are superior.

Soooo... No sources then?

 

[Buster15]

Apologies, I was confused for a minute. I read that as passionate lover.

I will ask him for you. By the way, he is not that kind of friend.

 

[Buster15]

Many years into this shit show and I've yet to hear any justification for leaving the EU thst isn't the equivalent of voluntarily amputating both legs above the knee because you have a veruca on your left big toe.

After all amputate means amputate.

Even if the amputate campaign said it wasn't a veruka but rather stage 4 melanoma/leg ebola that was costing us 14 billion quid per minute - monry that would be better spent giving schools and hospitals all the gold they could eat.

But the best reason for leaving was to take back control from the ECJ wasn't it.
Oh wait....

 

[Adisa]

 

[Full bodied red]

Ugh the pound has crashed quite badly. And it's getting worse day by day.

Just to put talk of Stg crashing into perspective,

On 01.05.2000, the Stg > Euro rate was 1.7286

on 20.06.2016, the Stg > Euro rate was 1.2857

A fall of around 30%.

And let's not even mention when it was at 1.0831 on 09.03.2009.

So those 16 years of the UK's membership of the EU really helped Stg, would you say ?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I will ask him for you. By the way, he is not that kind of friend.

my bad.

 

[SteveJ]

Nick Thomas-Symonds, the shadow solicitor general, says the supreme court judgment amounts to “the most damning judicial indictment of a government in modern times”.

He says the government “stands shamed - tendering illegal advice to Her Majesty”.

He says the legal advice should be published in full.

And he points out that, although Geoffrey Cox is saying he accepts the supreme court judgment, Michael Gove told the BBC this morning that the government still thought it had done nothing wrong.

He says the government has already been found in contempt of parliament. Now it has been found in contempt of law.

Cox says there is nothing unusual about a lawyer having his opinion rejected by a court.

He says courts in Scotland and in England backed his view. If people think Cox should resign, should the lord chief justice and the master of the rolls (who both said prorogation was lawful) resign too?

He accuses Thomas-Symonds of a “shameless piece of cynical opportunism”.

He says his advice was sound at the time. The supreme court took a different view, he says. He says it was entitled to do that. But it was making new law.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Just to put talk of Stg crashing into perspective,

On 01.05.2000, the Stg > Euro rate was 1.7286

on 20.06.2016, the Stg > Euro rate was 1.2857

A fall of around 30%.

And let's not even mention when it was at 1.0831 on 09.03.2009.

So those 16 years of the UK's membership of the EU really helped Stg, would you say ?

That's such a disengenuous point as you know well the drop of the sterling from 2001 > 2016 is because the Euro has increased in value so much since its initial introduction. it's also increased hugely against every major world currency, US dollar included.

Oh and uh, in case you weren't aware, the UK had the option to join the Euro.

Besides, what exactly does the Euro doing well against the Sterling actually have to do with the Sterling benefiting from EU membership (or not)?

 

[The Firestarter]

AG went loco.