Brentan Rodgers

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There's a lot you can fairly criticise Rodgers for but saying his approach cost us the title is complete horseshit. We lost against Chelsea partly because of his approach, but without those tactics we wouldn't have been in the race to start with.

I think this is a massive flaw of his though. He finds an approach that works for a while, but he refuses to change anything even though it looks like it might cost him.

Last season, Liverpool got very lucky against City, almost got found out by Norwich, then were eventually found out by Chelsea, but he still kept going on about playing "the right way" and refused to change anything. The collapse against Palace was hardly foreseeable, but he just blankly refused to try and add a bit of stability at the back, instead persisting with the frantic passing and high press.

The same happened this season. Stumbled upon a tactic that worked after getting trashed at Old Trafford, and it lasted a good while. They wobbled against Blackburn, were almost found out against Swansea, and were then thoroughly outclassed by United and Arsenal. It's fine having a general attitude and approach to the game, but Rodgers seems to believe that he's the creator of these amazing tactics that will work against every team he comes up against. He repeatedly refuses to change things until it's already cost Liverpool a number of important points.

You obviously wouldn't have been in the title race had he not used that tactic, but you probably would have won the title if he'd just approached the Chelsea game a bit more sensibly and with more caution. By the Palace game it was no longer in your hands because of the goal difference, but it was incredibly naive to keep trying to press Palace after conceding the first goal, never mind carrying on after they'd scored their second.
 
Yes we did but we also didn't against Real in 2000 and 2003. Barcelona in the 2009 and 2011 finals and many other occasions. And if you look at Fergie's book, you will see he wasn't very happy with how we approached the game you are talking about which is my point after all about the importance of having a general attitude to the game.
Good point. That 2009 final was tragic...we were built to be a counter attacking team that day. Oh well.
 
I think this is a massive flaw of his though. He finds an approach that works for a while, but he refuses to change anything even though it looks like it might cost him.

Last season, Liverpool got very lucky against City, almost got found out by Norwich, then were eventually found out by Chelsea, but he still kept going on about playing "the right way" and refused to change anything. The collapse against Palace was hardly foreseeable, but he just blankly refused to try and add a bit of stability at the back, instead persisting with the frantic passing and high press.

The same happened this season. Stumbled upon a tactic that worked after getting trashed at Old Trafford, and it lasted a good while. They wobbled against Blackburn, were almost found out against Swansea, and were then thoroughly outclassed by United and Arsenal. It's fine having a general attitude and approach to the game, but Rodgers seems to believe that he's the creator of these amazing tactics that will work against every team he comes up against. He repeatedly refuses to change things until it's already cost Liverpool a number of important points.

You obviously wouldn't have been in the title race had he not used that tactic, but you probably would have won the title if he'd just approached the Chelsea game a bit more sensibly and with more caution. By the Palace game it was no longer in your hands because of the goal difference, but it was incredibly naive to keep trying to press Palace after conceding the first goal, never mind carrying on after they'd scored their second.
I definitely agree with this. He comes across as too desperate for credit which I can definitely see his players resenting. I still think you are being very harsh with the whole flexibility issue. Sir Alex refused to be change his approach on so many big games even ones when we were clearly inferior like the 2011 CL final. He insisted on playing with a midfield of Carrick and Giggs with two wide men and two strikers. No other team in Europe would have played Barcelona with that set up. On the other hand, a lot of people criticized us for changing our approach in that title decider against City. My point is that it's easy to put down their failure to naïvety of Rogers. You can criticize any one result based on the tactics of the day but on another day Gerrard doesn't slip, they get a draw. Less pressure against Palace, they get a win and we'd be talking here about a league title. Liverpool failed last year because of very fine margins, the same way we did in 2012 or 2010. You can always point out to decisive games but that doesn't necessarily mean the manager is an idiot.
 
I definitely agree with this. He comes across as too desperate for credit which I can definitely see his players resenting. I still think you are being very harsh with the whole flexibility issue. Sir Alex refused to be change his approach on so many big games even ones when we were clearly inferior like the 2011 CL final. He insisted on playing with a midfield of Carrick and Giggs with two wide men and two strikers. No other team in Europe would have played Barcelona with that set up. On the other hand, a lot of people criticized us for changing our approach in that title decider against City. My point is that it's easy to put down their failure to naïvety of Rogers. You can criticize any one result based on the tactics of the day but on another day Gerrard doesn't slip, they get a draw. Less pressure against Palace, they get a win and we'd be talking here about a league title. Liverpool failed last year because of very fine margins, the same way we did in 2012 or 2010. You can always point out to decisive games but that doesn't necessarily mean the manager is an idiot.

But when we've failed to change tactics or changed to one that hasn't worked, we've not had this build up of games where it looks to be going wrong. Two seasons running now Rodgers has seen his tactics start to look a bit wobbly in the run up to a big game, and twice he's done nothing about it. Fergie has over two decades of success as a manager to justify tactical decisions that don't quite work, Rodgers has got a Championship play-off win with Swansea and one failed title challenge. Some of Fergie's may have been downright bizarre, but he didn't let things go wrong in the exact same way, game after game. As I said, Rodgers either fails to see that his tactic has been found out or ignores it until it's too late. Last season it was City and Norwich before being found out by Chelsea and Palace, this season it was Blackburn and Swansea before being found out by United and Arsenal.

The slip, although hilarious, wasn't the glaring problem in the Chelsea game. The problem was that Rodgers knew Mourinho had set Chelsea up to sit back and soak up the pressure, not worrying about Liverpool's frantic pace and high press. Chelsea were basically waiting for Liverpool's defense to get caught too high up the pitch when they lost possession, and that's exactly what happened for both goals. It's impossible to say whether Liverpool would have avoided defeat had Gerrard not slipped because even if it hadn't happened, Liverpool weren't going to find a way through Chelsea's defense and they were always one misplaced pass or dodgy first touch away from being massively exposed at the back.

The Palace game was obviously going extremely well, for a while, but once Palace scored their first he should have shut up shop and stifled the game. Coutinho had been brought on just moments before Palace's first, and in all honesty I think Rodgers had this strange idea that Liverpool could overhaul the goal difference. They had Agger, Toure and Cissokho sat on the bench, but Rodgers' only change after that was to bring Moses on for Sturridge after Palace had made it 2-3. This not only did bugger all to stop their attacks, but also completely ruined Liverpool's shape. It wasn't until Palace had scored their second that Liverpool thought about stopping the high press and frantic football, but by this stage it was too late, and Rodgers' weird substitution did little to help that.
 
But when we've failed to change tactics or changed to one that hasn't worked, we've not had this build up of games where it looks to be going wrong. Two seasons running now Rodgers has seen his tactics start to look a bit wobbly in the run up to a big game, and twice he's done nothing about it. Fergie has over two decades of success as a manager to justify tactical decisions that don't quite work, Rodgers has got a Championship play-off win with Swansea and one failed title challenge. Some of Fergie's may have been downright bizarre, but he didn't let things go wrong in the exact same way, game after game. As I said, Rodgers either fails to see that his tactic has been found out or ignores it until it's too late. Last season it was City and Norwich before being found out by Chelsea and Palace, this season it was Blackburn and Swansea before being found out by United and Arsenal.

The slip, although hilarious, wasn't the glaring problem in the Chelsea game. The problem was that Rodgers knew Mourinho had set Chelsea up to sit back and soak up the pressure, not worrying about Liverpool's frantic pace and high press. Chelsea were basically waiting for Liverpool's defense to get caught too high up the pitch when they lost possession, and that's exactly what happened for both goals. It's impossible to say whether Liverpool would have avoided defeat had Gerrard not slipped because even if it hadn't happened, Liverpool weren't going to find a way through Chelsea's defense and they were always one misplaced pass or dodgy first touch away from being massively exposed at the back.

The Palace game was obviously going extremely well, for a while, but once Palace scored their first he should have shut up shop and stifled the game. Coutinho had been brought on just moments before Palace's first, and in all honesty I think Rodgers had this strange idea that Liverpool could overhaul the goal difference. They had Agger, Toure and Cissokho sat on the bench, but Rodgers' only change after that was to bring Moses on for Sturridge after Palace had made it 2-3. This not only did bugger all to stop their attacks, but also completely ruined Liverpool's shape. It wasn't until Palace had scored their second that Liverpool thought about stopping the high press and frantic football, but by this stage it was too late, and Rodgers' weird substitution did little to help that.
I think you could argue that playing the way we did against Madrid in 2000 was a clear sign that it would be suicidal not to be careful against them in 2003? I could say the same about Barcelona in 2009 and then 2011 or our start to the season in 2012 conceding goals for fun and then 3 goals against a City side only to keep going and concede 3 more. My point is once you are that type of manager and by that I mean one that generally has an attitude of taking charge of the game and imposing your style on it, it simply is going to happen sometimes that you are going to be left with eggs on your face. I am not suggesting for a second that Rogers is the new Fergie, I am saying that regardless of competence, there are managers who prefer to take charge and others who are reactive. Fergie spoke openly about how uneasy he was about the way we beat Barcelona in 2008 and how he doesn't regret our approach in the two finals that followed for example. If you have that mindset, it can either go the way it did for us against Juventus and Bayern in 1999 or the way it went against Madrid and Barcelona. It is a high risk high reward. Rogers is obviously not one of the best proactive managers out there but instead of suggesting that his pro activity is costing Liverpool, I think it is simply the fact that he is not very good at it yet and the only to improve it is investment and experience.
 
The slip, although hilarious, wasn't the glaring problem in the Chelsea game. The problem was that Rodgers knew Mourinho had set Chelsea up to sit back and soak up the pressure, not worrying about Liverpool's frantic pace and high press. Chelsea were basically waiting for Liverpool's defense to get caught too high up the pitch when they lost possession, and that's exactly what happened for both goals. It's impossible to say whether Liverpool would have avoided defeat had Gerrard not slipped because even if it hadn't happened, Liverpool weren't going to find a way through Chelsea's defense and they were always one misplaced pass or dodgy first touch away from being massively exposed at the back.

The Palace game was obviously going extremely well, for a while, but once Palace scored their first he should have shut up shop and stifled the game. Coutinho had been brought on just moments before Palace's first, and in all honesty I think Rodgers had this strange idea that Liverpool could overhaul the goal difference. They had Agger, Toure and Cissokho sat on the bench, but Rodgers' only change after that was to bring Moses on for Sturridge after Palace had made it 2-3. This not only did bugger all to stop their attacks, but also completely ruined Liverpool's shape. It wasn't until Palace had scored their second that Liverpool thought about stopping the high press and frantic football, but by this stage it was too late, and Rodgers' weird substitution did little to help that.

Bingo. They only needed a draw against us, but Rodgers was so determined to play the 'Rodgers way' that he played straight into Jose's hands. If anything the slip was a bad thing, because it gave the scousers an excuse to overlook the obvious problem.

The Palace game meanwhile was just utterly ridiculous. The man seems allergic to the defensive half of the game.
 
It's been tedious for ages. He's a poor man's Barney, and that's saying something.
Bingo. They only needed a draw against us, but Rodgers was so determined to play the 'Rodgers way' that he played straight into Jose's hands. If anything the slip was a bad thing, because it gave the scousers an excuse to overlook the obvious problem.

The Palace game meanwhile was just utterly ridiculous. The man seems allergic to the defensive half of the game.

Agree, sums it up really well.
 
I think you could argue that playing the way we did against Madrid in 2000 was a clear sign that it would be suicidal not to be careful against them in 2003? I could say the same about Barcelona in 2009 and then 2011 or our start to the season in 2012 conceding goals for fun and then 3 goals against a City side only to keep going and concede 3 more. My point is once you are that type of manager and by that I mean one that generally has an attitude of taking charge of the game and imposing your style on it, it simply is going to happen sometimes that you are going to be left with eggs on your face. I am not suggesting for a second that Rogers is the new Fergie, I am saying that regardless of competence, there are managers who prefer to take charge and others who are reactive. Fergie spoke openly about how uneasy he was about the way we beat Barcelona in 2008 and how he doesn't regret our approach in the two finals that followed for example. If you have that mindset, it can either go the way it did for us against Juventus and Bayern in 1999 or the way it went against Madrid and Barcelona. It is a high risk high reward. Rogers is obviously not one of the best proactive managers out there but instead of suggesting that his pro activity is costing Liverpool, I think it is simply the fact that he is not very good at it yet and the only to improve it is investment and experience.

Your examples are hardly comparable though. Two CL fixtures three years apart and two CL finals against one of the best teams ever assembled. Three years is a long time in football. I'm not sure looking at a game played in 2000 with a very different set of players available is much good when you're preparing for a match in 2003. Madrid also had the benefit of having Ronaldo ready to tear us apart in 2003. We also played different tactics in the two Barca finals, so I'm not really sure what your point is there. We tried something in 2009 that didn't work, then changed it in 2011.

I'm not really sure what point you're making with regards to 2012. Deciding not to shut up shop against City in the 6-1 was obviously a mistake considering we lost the league on goal difference, but that's nothing other than hindsight. We managed to pull it back to 3-1, despite having 10 men, with 10 minutes left to play. If there's one thing that Fergie's United sides were known for it was defying the odds and making late comebacks. The fans would have been livid if we'd thrown in the towel and accepted a 3-1 defeat at that point of the game.

As I said, Fergie has the winning record to justify his tactical approaches to games. Some of them didn't work, but with a trophy cabinet as full as his it's hard to argue with much that he did. I also can't remember any occasions where we had glaring tactical issues approaching big games that Fergie chose to ignore, and that ultimately cost us. I also think you're overlooking that it wasn't trying to take charge of games via tactics that won Fergie so much, it was his stubborn belief that Manchester United were the best team and that Manchester United were going to win. It's why he was so good at getting huge performances out of players that most other top clubs wouldn't touch. He instilled a winning mentality into the team, not a mentality about how the game should be played, despite his apparent distaste for how we reached the 2008 CL final.

Rodgers isn't as new to management as people like to make out. He's at his fourth club and is in his seventh year of management. If an armchair fan can identify when teams are starting to get to grips with his tactics, he should be identifying it too, and acting accordingly. Last season Liverpool were huge dark horses, so he was able to wave away any talk of pressure by pointing out that they're just concentrating on their football and doing things how he wants them to be done. He's carried that into this season, but because of their 'success' last season there has been pressure on them to reach a top 4 position. A disastrous start where they looked tactically clueless was overcome quite well with a new tactic, but once again he failed to change anything when it looked like teams had sussed it out, and now they look like they're going to fall short.

Fergie took charge by refusing to accept that United weren't going to win. Rodgers attempts to take charge by naively believing that his way of playing football is the best way of playing football. His one consistency with his tactics is asking his players to press high up the pitch and then move the ball forward quickly once they've got possession. It stopped working for Dortmund, and it's stopped working for Liverpool. Not every example of stubbornness is an example of 'taking charge' and at some point Rodgers is going to have to accept that when Liverpool play some teams, his footballing ideals aren't going to cut it.
 
Your examples are hardly comparable though. Two CL fixtures three years apart and two CL finals against one of the best teams ever assembled. Three years is a long time in football. I'm not sure looking at a game played in 2000 with a very different set of players available is much good when you're preparing for a match in 2003. Madrid also had the benefit of having Ronaldo ready to tear us apart in 2003. We also played different tactics in the two Barca finals, so I'm not really sure what your point is there. We tried something in 2009 that didn't work, then changed it in 2011.

I'm not really sure what point you're making with regards to 2012. Deciding not to shut up shop against City in the 6-1 was obviously a mistake considering we lost the league on goal difference, but that's nothing other than hindsight. We managed to pull it back to 3-1, despite having 10 men, with 10 minutes left to play. If there's one thing that Fergie's United sides were known for it was defying the odds and making late comebacks. The fans would have been livid if we'd thrown in the towel and accepted a 3-1 defeat at that point of the game.

As I said, Fergie has the winning record to justify his tactical approaches to games. Some of them didn't work, but with a trophy cabinet as full as his it's hard to argue with much that he did. I also can't remember any occasions where we had glaring tactical issues approaching big games that Fergie chose to ignore, and that ultimately cost us. I also think you're overlooking that it wasn't trying to take charge of games via tactics that won Fergie so much, it was his stubborn belief that Manchester United were the best team and that Manchester United were going to win. It's why he was so good at getting huge performances out of players that most other top clubs wouldn't touch. He instilled a winning mentality into the team, not a mentality about how the game should be played, despite his apparent distaste for how we reached the 2008 CL final.

Rodgers isn't as new to management as people like to make out. He's at his fourth club and is in his seventh year of management. If an armchair fan can identify when teams are starting to get to grips with his tactics, he should be identifying it too, and acting accordingly. Last season Liverpool were huge dark horses, so he was able to wave away any talk of pressure by pointing out that they're just concentrating on their football and doing things how he wants them to be done. He's carried that into this season, but because of their 'success' last season there has been pressure on them to reach a top 4 position. A disastrous start where they looked tactically clueless was overcome quite well with a new tactic, but once again he failed to change anything when it looked like teams had sussed it out, and now they look like they're going to fall short.

Fergie took charge by refusing to accept that United weren't going to win. Rodgers attempts to take charge by naively believing that his way of playing football is the best way of playing football. His one consistency with his tactics is asking his players to press high up the pitch and then move the ball forward quickly once they've got possession. It stopped working for Dortmund, and it's stopped working for Liverpool. Not every example of stubbornness is an example of 'taking charge' and at some point Rodgers is going to have to accept that when Liverpool play some teams, his footballing ideals aren't going to cut it.
You talk about Barcelona having one of the best teams of all time which proves my point. Everybody could see that going against them toe to toe was suicide. Nobody could outplay them, the only teams that beat adopted an extremely defensive approach. With all that knowledge, Sir Alex still decided to play them with a two men midfield of Carrick and Giggs, two wide men and two strikers. If that is not an example of stubbornly trying to outplay a team, I don't know what is. You are talking as if I am criticizing Fergie when I talk about this. I am merely saying that the reason he was successful and his teams were so much fun is 1) he was very very good and 2) he had that attitude of "we will go for it". However, that also means that on some occasions, it will backfire spectacularly as it did in the examples I mentioned. Would I change it? well the higher likelihood of another CL trophy is tempting but I am afraid it would mean he is not the manager who gave us so much.

My point is therefore that Rogers' problem is not that he is stubborn but that he is simply not competent yet to pull it off. He needs to be good at other aspects of management like man management, transfer nous, building a teams mentality, improving individual players and others. He also needs the financial backing, and the humility to learn from experience. Stubbornness in wanting to impose one's style and refuse to be submissive however is not necessarily a bad thing if accompanied by these other qualities. If I can give an example, it's a bit like when a winger attempts to dribble, loses the ball and you concede from the counter attack. It's not the fact that his attitude was to go out and dribble that is necessarily a problem as without it he wouldn't be much good for you, it is the fact that he failed that's an issue.
 
You can criticize any one result based on the tactics of the day but on another day Gerrard doesn't slip, they get a draw. Less pressure against Palace, they get a win and we'd be talking here about a league title. Liverpool failed last year because of very fine margins, the same way we did in 2012 or 2010. You can always point out to decisive games but that doesn't necessarily mean the manager is an idiot.

Theonas you can go over a full season and put it down to fine margins! But the truth was if Rodgers had altered his tactics against Chrlsea and Palace they would have won the league. He never, hence people pointing it out, if pool had won I bet you he would have taken the credit for sticking to his beliefs. He can't have it both ways only Jose can have it both ways lol
 
Why are people going on about the palace match? If he went more defensive and hung on to the 3-0 lead they still would have finished in second.

We don't know that though, City had two games after that Liverpool/Palace match. That draw was basically the nail in the coffin for Liverpool, and must have lifted the pressure on City ever so slightly.
 
He has shown himself to be a good manager. Also an excruciating dickhead. I have yet to see a good argument against these two things. He also has a lot to prove and learn before he can be considered amongst the best managers in the league. Plenty of time though.
 
Why are people going on about the palace match? If he went more defensive and hung on to the 3-0 lead they still would have finished in second.

Because getting 3 points and keeping the pressure on City to win their remaining games should have been the priority once Palace dented their hopes of overturning the goal difference.

Drawing meant City had proper breathing room and could go into their final two games knowing 4 points would be enough.
 
I might be wrong here, but I think Liverpool could have settled for a draw against Chelsea but still needed to win their last two matches in order to win the league. Should they really have played for the draw there? At home, against a Chelsea who were between CL semi finals and if memory serves me right rested several players? Na, The tactics may have been a problem, but going for the win was not. It seemed like a good chance to perserve breathing space.

Can't really criticise Rodgers for last season. He found something that worked really well and his team were on a major role. It wasn't perfect, his team had obvious flaws, but would you really disrupt it with few matches to go? Seems like hindsight to me.
 
I might be wrong here, but I think Liverpool could have settled for a draw against Chelsea but still needed to win their last two matches in order to win the league. Should they really have played for the draw there? At home, against a Chelsea who were between CL semi finals and if memory serves me right rested several players? Na, The tactics may have been a problem, but going for the win was not.

Can't really criticise Rodgers for last season. He found something that worked really well and his team were on a major role. It wasn't perfect, his team had obvious flaws, but would you really disrupt it with few matches to go? Seems like hindsight to me.

As with Palace in the following game, his priorities were wrong. There was no harm in going for a win, but when a draw would have kept them clear at the top, he should have been far more cautious in his attempts at chasing the win. Instead he made winning "the right way" the priority in a foolish attempt at getting one over on Mourinho.

They may have been on a roll approaching the Chelsea game, but they were almost found out in the two games immediately before it.
 
I might be wrong here, but I think Liverpool could have settled for a draw against Chelsea but still needed to win their last two matches in order to win the league. Should they really have played for the draw there? At home, against a Chelsea who were between CL semi finals and if memory serves me right rested several players? Na, The tactics may have been a problem, but going for the win was not. It seemed like a good chance to perserve breathing space.

Liverpool were destroying teams left, right and centre so of course he wasn't going to set up for a draw. When was the last time Fergie was happy to play for a draw when his team was in form? Also Chelsea offered next to nothing all game, if Gerrard had not slipped they probably wouldn't have scored the goal. You can't put that on the manager.
 
As with Palace in the following game, his priorities were wrong. There was no harm in going for a win, but when a draw would have kept them clear at the top, he should have been far more cautious in his attempts at chasing the win. Instead he made winning "the right way" the priority in a foolish attempt at getting one over on Mourinho.

They may have been on a roll approaching the Chelsea game, but they were almost found out in the two games immediately before it.

And we know that was the reason because?...

No matter how the game went, if Gerrard doesn't hand Chelsea a goal the whole story could have been different. And that mistake and goal could have happened no matter how Liverpool played.
 
I might be wrong here, but I think Liverpool could have settled for a draw against Chelsea but still needed to win their last two matches in order to win the league. Should they really have played for the draw there? At home, against a Chelsea who were between CL semi finals and if memory serves me right rested several players? Na, The tactics may have been a problem, but going for the win was not. It seemed like a good chance to perserve breathing space.

Against a Mourinho team? That takes some real self confidence. Also a really questionable degree of judgement. It was a gamble that absolutely did not need to be made, considering the last 2 games were Palace and Newcastle. It felt more like Rodgers trying to make a point, and it blew up in his face.
 
And we know that was the reason because?...

No matter how the game went, if Gerrard doesn't hand Chelsea a goal the whole story could have been different. And that mistake and goal could have happened no matter how Liverpool played.

We don't, Alex is just projecting. I think he was trying to close the goal differential gap. Which was still foolish, but not what Alex wants it to be.
 
Against a Mourinho team? That takes some real self confidence. Also a really questionable degree of judgement. It was a gamble that absolutely did not need to be made, considering the last 2 games were Palace and Newcastle. It felt more like Rodgers trying to make a point, and it blew up in his face.

A depleted Chelsea team, in between two big CL matches. It was a great chance to maintain their gap and not go into their last two matches having to win both. Palace away, the way they finished last season, were not easy.
 
And we know that was the reason because?...

No matter how the game went, if Gerrard doesn't hand Chelsea a goal the whole story could have been different. And that mistake and goal could have happened no matter how Liverpool played.

Because he still harped on about playing "the right way" even after they'd lost.

His tactic of pressing so high up the pitch was part of the reason Gerrard found himself in possession on the halfway line whilst level with the defence. It hadn't worked for almost the entirety of the first half, and cost them again late in the second.
 
Because he still harped on about playing "the right way" even after they'd lost.

His tactic of pressing so high up the pitch was part of the reason Gerrard found himself in possession on the halfway line whilst level with the defence. It hadn't worked for almost the entirety of the first half, and cost them again late in the second.

You can't legislate for mistakes like Gerrard's. They could have played the way you think they should have, and it would have happened to a defender. The second goal doesn't really matter as it was late in the game and they were chasing a draw. 0-1 or 0-2 were similar.

Saying you played the right way seems like a Wengeresque claim. Doesn't mean it's connected to Mourinho.
 
Because he still harped on about playing "the right way" even after they'd lost.

His tactic of pressing so high up the pitch was part of the reason Gerrard found himself in possession on the halfway line whilst level with the defence. It hadn't worked for almost the entirety of the first half, and cost them again late in the second.

Chelsea weren't going to be drawn into a football match that day no matter what happened, if we'd sat back instead of pressing all that would have happened is that we'd have less of the ball. To be honest, what cost us that day was that Rodgers actually deviated too much from what we'd been doing all season. We were hitting it down the wings to cross it in far more than we'd done all season. If we'd played our regular game we'd have had more of a chance.

I don't think many people suggested we set up for a draw when Chelsea's line-up was announced, but then once we lost everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
 
We don't, Alex is just projecting. I think he was trying to close the goal differential gap. Which was still foolish, but not what Alex wants it to be.

He wasn't trying to close the goal difference gap against Chelsea, which is the game we're discussing.

Essentially, I think he prioritised winning "the right way" against Chelsea (as evidenced by his post-match comments), when his main priority should have been not losing. Against Palace, he prioritised closing the gap in goal difference, which was fair enough at 3-0. However, at 3-1 his prority should have been to get the three points, but they continued playing frantic football, seemingly in hope of scoring a fourth.
 
Can someone explain the idea that Liverpool's approach to the Chelsea game was all wrong?

They lost because one of their players slipped and gifted Chelsea a goal they were probably not going to get otherwise. Chelsea were offering nothing in attack, Liverpool were trying to win the game but they weren't left exposed, a freak mistake from Gerrard can happen no matter the approach to the game. By the 93rd minute obviously they were gung ho and they conceded a 2nd but that was immaterial.
 
Can someone explain the idea that Liverpool's approach to the Chelsea game was all wrong?

They lost because one of their players slipped and gifted Chelsea a goal they were probably not going to get otherwise. Chelsea were offering nothing in attack, Liverpool were trying to win the game but they weren't left exposed, a freak mistake from Gerrard can happen no matter the approach to the game. By the 93rd minute obviously they were gung ho and they conceded a 2nd but that was immaterial.

They didn't lose because of a slip, they lost because they didn't adapt to the tactics they were facing. They only needed a draw, they could have placed a much more reserved game and either it would have ended a boring draw or maybe we'd have come out and been exposed. Instead Rodgers played completely into Jose's hands and played his full on attacking football which led to the error. We had a light team out and were playing at a busy time in the season for us, but seriously if you play a Mourionho team at ANY time and considering his record against big teams, you have to be mindful of that and adapt. Rodgers just believed he was such a tactical genius that he could walk over us, and he ended up pissing the title away as a result.
 
Can someone explain the idea that Liverpool's approach to the Chelsea game was all wrong?

They lost because one of their players slipped and gifted Chelsea a goal they were probably not going to get otherwise. Chelsea were offering nothing in attack, Liverpool were trying to win the game but they weren't left exposed, a freak mistake from Gerrard can happen no matter the approach to the game. By the 93rd minute obviously they were gung ho and they conceded a 2nd but that was immaterial.
Still can't believe they messed it up :lol: Chelsea sitting back with their second team and Gerrard just falls over. It's seriously unbelievable.
 
Looking back, its pretty crazy how the table looked with 3 games left. How did they feck that up?

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They didn't lose because of a slip, they lost because they didn't adapt to the tactics they were facing. They only needed a draw, they could have placed a much more reserved game and either it would have ended a boring draw or maybe we'd have come out and been exposed. Instead Rodgers played completely into Jose's hands and played his full on attacking football which led to the error. We had a light team out and were playing at a busy time in the season for us, but seriously if you play a Mourionho team at ANY time and considering his record against big teams, you have to be mindful of that and adapt. Rodgers just believed he was such a tactical genius that he could walk over us, and he ended up pissing the title away as a result.
:wenger:

A midfielder collecting the ball off his centre back is a fairly standard part of football. Said midfielder falling flat on his face for no reason at all had nothing to do with Rodger's tactics. They were reserved enough to not concede any chances, one of their players had to gift you a goal because it was heading for a bore draw until that moment.
 
I forgot that a draw against Chelsea would've have kept it in their hands. City look dead and buried there.
 
You can't legislate for mistakes like Gerrard's. They could have played the way you think they should have, and it would have happened to a defender. The second goal doesn't really matter as it was late in the game and they were chasing a draw. 0-1 or 0-2 were similar.

Saying you played the right way seems like a Wengeresque claim. Doesn't mean it's connected to Mourinho.

You can't legislate for mistakes like Gerrard's, and the second goal didn't matter in the sense that Liverpool didn't score anyway, but Chelsea were only ever going to score in that game if Liverpool lost possession whilst their defence was high up the pitch, which is exactly what happened. Twice.

Of course it was connected to Mourinho. His comments were pretty much "anyone can play with 10 men behind the ball but we try to win the right way." He literally mentioned Mourinho's tactics as a comparison to him playing "the right way."

Chelsea weren't going to be drawn into a football match that day no matter what happened, if we'd sat back instead of pressing all that would have happened is that we'd have less of the ball. To be honest, what cost us that day was that Rodgers actually deviated too much from what we'd been doing all season. We were hitting it down the wings to cross it in far more than we'd done all season. If we'd played our regular game we'd have had more of a chance.

I don't think many people suggested we set up for a draw when Chelsea's line-up was announced, but then once we lost everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Liverpool were only going down the wings because Chelsea stifled all of the space in the middle by sitting back so much. It was forced because that's where the space was.

I'm not saying Liverpool should have played for a draw, but they should have ensure they were defensively sound in their attempts at going for the win.

In the third and final minute of first half stoppage time, at 0-0, when your team only needs to avoid defeat to ensure that you stay clear at the top of the league, there is literally no need for a) most of your players to start streaming forward once you're in possession, b) your two central defenders, who are pretty much on the halfway line, being essentially on opposite wings, and c) for a midfielder to be dropping into the huge gap left between the two central defenders, and upon receiving the ball, frantically trying to turn and move the ball on, despite being under no pressure.

:wenger:

A midfielder collecting the ball off his centre back is a fairly standard part of football. Said midfielder falling flat on his face for no reason at all had nothing to do with Rodger's tactics. They were reserved enough to not concede any chances, one of their players had to gift you a goal because it was heading for a bore draw until that moment.

Chelsea had the first chance of the game, five minutes in, and had a further 4 chances prior to the slip. It's hardly like Chelsea had been no where near Liverpool's box before the goal.

Liverpool had looked shaky defensively all season, there's no reason to accept that it was any different in the Chelsea game, and whilst midfielders collect the ball off their centre-backs all the time, they tend not to do it from a squared ball on the halfway line, whilst their centre-backs are pretty much on opposite wings, with the rest of the team streaming forward.

It was incredibly naive to throw so many bodies forward so haphazardly and leave such large gaps between the defenders themselves, and the defence and the goalkeeper, when a draw would have done. You can still try to win without needing your whole team to bomb forward every time you get the ball.
 
Looking back, its pretty crazy how the table looked with 3 games left. How did they feck that up?
B4picOHCAAEtfbt.jpg
That table is something else...Chelsea (H), Palace (A) and Newcastle (H). They completely threw it away! I remember seeing the chelsea team sheet for the Liverpool game and it had all the starters left out and I was left thinking yep its over. They're going to win it for sure. Mourinho really pulled a rabbit out of the hat that day and saved us all from having to hear about that season for the rest of time.

"7th to 1st! Greatest title win of all time! Stevie G finally the champion!"
 
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