Oh my God, I didn't realise Downing cost £20m!
I thought you were taking the piss, so I double checked on Google.
Where have you been all this time?!
Brentan Rodgers
- Thread starter The Neviller
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Where have you been all this time?!
His "Style", his "Philosophy", it's all the same nonsense. He thinks he is going to make them Barcelona with Welsh Xavi and buck-tooth Messi. It is not only about retaining the ball and playing triangles. It's about scoring goals and winning games. He hasn't won a game against any team that are above Liverpool in the table. He hasn't improved them since last season, they are out of the COC and I doubt will win the FA cup. If we extrapolate that to full season, he'll finish in the same position as last year, won't win a cup and won't qualify for Europa league.
Liverpool have better resources than most teams in the league but are not competing at the level you expect. He has isolated and mishandled previous managers purchases. A good manager makes optimum use of the available resources not wait to offload them to sign the players that'll fit his philosophy.
Borini didn't look any great shakes before the injury and the verdict is still out on him. Allen is Allen, a very very poor version of Carrick with no ability to make a forward pass. How does Studge fit in a 4-3-3 with Suarez? He wants to play centrally not wide. He is a shoot at sight striker who misses his target with alarming regularity. Do you want your top scorer to move wide in order to accommodate him?
He would make it to the next season after purchasing players that won't fit in the next managers "philosophy". But then again, the fans can blame FSG despite spending close to 200m in the last 4 years.
I should have been clearer in my post. I don't think Rodgers style is based on only triangles and ball retention. I think Rodgers would adopt a completely different style and philosophy if his team started winning regularly. Some people will harp on about the "Pass and Move," days of the old Liverpool sides in the 70s and 80s. In my opinion Rodgers wants Liverpool to play a more expansive team game which I actually prefer as opposed to previous managers after Roy Evans who used to exploit Michael Owen's pace or Gerard's explosive runs. Either way I think a marriage of expansive play and individual attributes are what makes a team better but to expect whole scale changes and massive improvement in one season is just unrealistic. Take the Newcastle example. They appeared to make huge strides last season and were touted as the team to break into the top 4 but are on the brink this year. I would see this year as not a major improvement on last year but then again I didn't see Kenny blooding youngsters last year but he sure did spend a lot more money. I think this will stand to Liverpool in the future and help us to improve gradually over the next few seasons by a few positions each term.
No doubt the resources are better at Liverpool but I think (judging by the numbers going around in this thread) that the people running the club have tightened the purse strings. Especially in the wake of high profile transfers not paying off. This leaves Rodgers in a position where he probably has to sell to buy. Liverpool are competing at a level I expect based on squad size, experience and quality. I think anyone with realistic expectations sees this but the trouble is most fans don't have a realistic outlook. Managers need to stamp their authority on a club when they arrive and Rodgers and many other managers before him have done this by isolating certain players signed by previous managers and in some ways scapegoating them. I do think some of his decisions have been off the mark but then all managers make mistakes. If he learns from them then he and LFC will keep going in the right direction. I don't know about your statement of what a good manager does in this case. If you have players you don't want and who aren't performing for you then you try and work different ways to get them performing. In fairness to Rodgers I think Downing has doubled his goals and assists for him with his style of management!!
To be fair I think most signings need a season to bed in. Comparing Allen to Carrick of now is a bit silly. Allen had a great first year at the top level last season with Swansea. Carrick started his career at West Ham and really performed well there despite relegation. He then got a move to Spurs and excelled in their midfield for a few seasons and got a massive move to united. He has consistently performed at the top level for about 10 years now but had you looked at him in his second season and compare him to Allen then that would be a fair comparison. Allen has been out of sorts but I still see qualities in him that will lead him to being a good performer for Liverpool in the future.
Sturridge and Suarez are goal scorers and I don't know how to accommodate both but I like both players who have pace and give defenders difficulty. I'm pretty sure that Sturridge caused a lot of problems for United when he came on last week with Suarez on the pitch. I think Suarez is a fantastic player for chasing lost causes and making something out of nothing but I really think he needs to improve his team game. There are times when he doesnt look up and plays the wrong ball but this is something he can develop.
This is precisely why a knee jerk reaction should not be taken and he should be given a minimum of 4-5 years. You look at United the most successful English club of the premier league era and you see the one club who has had stability. Same manager and progression of young players to first team. Big marquee signings happen too but they are bedded in with good young players. I'm not saying Rodgers is the man to carry Liverpool out of this barren spell but I would like to see supporters get behind him for a few years and see what he can offer.
Downing has doubled his goals and assists???
From 1 to 2.
Dippernomics, ladies and gentlemen
From 1 to 2.
Dippernomics, ladies and gentlemen
I should have been clearer in my post. I don't think Rodgers style is based on only triangles and ball retention. I think Rodgers would adopt a completely different style and philosophy if his team started winning regularly. Some people will harp on about the "Pass and Move," days of the old Liverpool sides in the 70s and 80s. In my opinion Rodgers wants Liverpool to play a more expansive team game which I actually prefer as opposed to previous managers after Roy Evans who used to exploit Michael Owen's pace or Gerard's explosive runs. Either way I think a marriage of expansive play and individual attributes are what makes a team better but to expect whole scale changes and massive improvement in one season is just unrealistic. Take the Newcastle example. They appeared to make huge strides last season and were touted as the team to break into the top 4 but are on the brink this year. I would see this year as not a major improvement on last year but then again I didn't see Kenny blooding youngsters last year but he sure did spend a lot more money. I think this will stand to Liverpool in the future and help us to improve gradually over the next few seasons by a few positions each term.
No doubt the resources are better at Liverpool but I think (judging by the numbers going around in this thread) that the people running the club have tightened the purse strings. Especially in the wake of high profile transfers not paying off. This leaves Rodgers in a position where he probably has to sell to buy. Liverpool are competing at a level I expect based on squad size, experience and quality. I think anyone with realistic expectations sees this but the trouble is most fans don't have a realistic outlook. Managers need to stamp their authority on a club when they arrive and Rodgers and many other managers before him have done this by isolating certain players signed by previous managers and in some ways scapegoating them. I do think some of his decisions have been off the mark but then all managers make mistakes. If he learns from them then he and LFC will keep going in the right direction. I don't know about your statement of what a good manager does in this case. If you have players you don't want and who aren't performing for you then you try and work different ways to get them performing. In fairness to Rodgers I think Downing has doubled his goals and assists for him with his style of management!!
To be fair I think most signings need a season to bed in. Comparing Allen to Carrick of now is a bit silly. Allen had a great first year at the top level last season with Swansea. Carrick started his career at West Ham and really performed well there despite relegation. He then got a move to Spurs and excelled in their midfield for a few seasons and got a massive move to united. He has consistently performed at the top level for about 10 years now but had you looked at him in his second season and compare him to Allen then that would be a fair comparison. Allen has been out of sorts but I still see qualities in him that will lead him to being a good performer for Liverpool in the future.
Sturridge and Suarez are goal scorers and I don't know how to accommodate both but I like both players who have pace and give defenders difficulty. I'm pretty sure that Sturridge caused a lot of problems for United when he came on last week with Suarez on the pitch. I think Suarez is a fantastic player for chasing lost causes and making something out of nothing but I really think he needs to improve his team game. There are times when he doesnt look up and plays the wrong ball but this is something he can develop.
This is precisely why a knee jerk reaction should not be taken and he should be given a minimum of 4-5 years. You look at United the most successful English club of the premier league era and you see the one club who has had stability. Same manager and progression of young players to first team. Big marquee signings happen too but they are bedded in with good young players. I'm not saying Rodgers is the man to carry Liverpool out of this barren spell but I would like to see supporters get behind him for a few years and see what he can offer.
we're talking about BR though, How much do we bought carrick for and how much he paid for Allen.
Not sure how that is relevant when I've made my views on the comparison clear.
I too am talking about Rodgers. I think you might be asking me if he overpaid on Allen. Yes he certainly did by about 5m but that seems to be standard for all decent English/British players available. He could have picked up a much cheaper option abroad but he chose Allen because he knew the lad and worked with him. Still way too early to start writing his epitaph though.
Downing has doubled his goals and assists???
From 1 to 2.
Dippernomics, ladies and gentlemen
I'm fairly sure Stick said this tongue in cheek.
And most of his points seem pretty fair to be honest. I don't necessarily agree with everything, and I think there's a lot of wishful thinking, but it's far off from the usual deluded crap we're used to read.
Unfair to compare the Carrick and Allen transfers.
Carrick was years ago when the market wasn't inflated and everyone including me felt over-paid for Carrick that time.
Maybe Pool overpaid 4-5 mil for Allen but thats not much in today's market.
Although over-time we've got value...the £18.6m deal for Carrick was heavily inflated too considering his lack of international experience, his lack of trophies and the fact he was sold at a 16m profit.
But because he's been a good servant over such a long period, it's worked out. Same could happen with Allen, eventually. Key word being 'could'
Downing has doubled his goals and assists???
From 1 to 2.
Dippernomics, ladies and gentlemen
Have to be wishful in some ways. If not then it will be a hard 5 years. I always look on the positive and while I'm certainly not happy with the performances against United and Villa this year, I can still see the good games and have certainly enjoyed watching Liverpool again.
Yes that's my point. Much too early to make a call on the lad.
Allen's done a lot more positive than negative for me. He showed in his first 3ish months the job he can do. If he can regain that level of performance (why shouldn't he?) then he'll be a fine signing over the years.
I have more reservations over Borini.
I have more reservations over Borini.
Wtf Stick is a dipper?
Mind blown.
Mind blown.
Guide Liverpool to mid-table?
At the time of purchase was it the right move? Or a pointless signing. I know the Lucas injury taken into account.
I personally just don't think it is enough of an upgrade on Spearing. In terms of someone holding down a limited spot.
Spearing is on loan with Bolton and isnt setting the Championship alight. I think it's safe to say that Allen is a cut above Jay at the minute.
That wasn't what I said though.
I said it wasn't enough of an upgrade for the purchase of Allen to justify it. Spearing is spawned and moulded Liverpool. Took a massive wallop to the face to be farmed out on loan and how would you feel if that happened to you? Gone from looking like a fine young prospect to being out on your arse on loan when you were a handy first team fill-in slash regular a season before.
There were other areas that needed strengthening in the squad before the purchase of Allen which was a massive chunk on the budget that seemed more a comfort signing than an actual player of worth to the squad.
I said it wasn't enough of an upgrade for the purchase of Allen to justify it. Spearing is spawned and moulded Liverpool. Took a massive wallop to the face to be farmed out on loan and how would you feel if that happened to you? Gone from looking like a fine young prospect to being out on your arse on loan when you were a handy first team fill-in slash regular a season before.
There were other areas that needed strengthening in the squad before the purchase of Allen which was a massive chunk on the budget that seemed more a comfort signing than an actual player of worth to the squad.
It has clearly shown to be the right move because he has performed well for Liverpool up until his recent dip in form. The injury to Lucas is irrelevent as football is a squad game and Allen has strengthened the squad which was needed. I dont know what a comfort signing is but he is a player of worth and has shown that this year.
Clearly?..
A comfort signing. When a manager moves clubs he brings with him one of his best and his most talented players to work under him at the new club. Rather than coming in and identifying what areas needed strengthening he chose to bring a DM which at the time was surplus to the players already in the squad in terms of numbers.
Clearly is a load of bollocks to me. Like Henderson, he has not been a real style/game changer and has presented a neat and tidy work ethic and attitude. Technically they look to be similar players save for Henderson's love of disappearing acts. He could have easily had more faith in Henderson and made signings in other areas to strengthen in more economical ways.
Lucas is the first name on the team sheet when fit. Rarely plays well with a partner and when not in the anchorman role. He fits the Rogers 4-3-3 system perfectly as the central midfielder who shields the defense and offers little more than recycling passes in attack. Something Spearing had similar success doing under little pressure at the back end of Dalglish's first half-season in charge. That is why it is relevant, Lucas injury allowed Allen to play in that role and play at a level which was required. Although he's tapered off he's not playing in a position of excessive significance when he is in front of Lucas.
I don't think it was a pointless signing. He's shown he's capable of controlling games from the middle and even on Sunday for the last half hour he began to do that. Even when he plays poorly, he's always looking for the ball and often is the only option when our back 4 look to pass it out. Always on the move and thus he's a pivotal player in the system we're looking to employ.
Spearing was little more than a runner. Poor with it at his feet and an average passer of the ball. Not enough physical presence to make up for that either.
Although I think Henderson's a decent enough player, Allen offers a lot more for me. They both have a good touch but Allen's on the ball ability (he can take it past players), movement, and actual ability to turn on the ball and thus create angles are things that Henderson doesn't provide. It'd be very useful if he had Henderson's physical attributes as his size and small stature are probably his weakest attributes. But if he can hone his already apparent skills then he'll be worth what we paid for him.
I've never seen Henderson co-ordinate a game from the middle the way Allen can and has done, either. Ever since Alonso left (not saying Allen's as good) Liverpool have lacked that kind of midfielder.
I do agree that £15m was steep but Rodgers' hand may have been forced, what with Spurs apparently sniffing around. I suppose he thought he'd have to get him in before someone else does. He's only 22 so not the finished article just yet and I'm looking forward to his development.
Fair enough - 'pointless' was probably being a little bit to harsh.
@Stick
Newcastle is not the right example. They did not strengthen the team much in the summer and most of the first team has been injured this season. The main architects of an excellent last season - Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, defenders have been injured for the most part. Ba wanted to leave and now the issue with Coloccini. It's funny to laugh at Pardew and his eight year contact, in reality they have been hampered by injuries this season.
The thing with Rodgers is that he has come in, made some purchases but Liverpool is at the same if not at worse level than last year. If you think that with the quality of their squad this is their right position then why was the previous manager replaced? He won the Carling cup and took Liverpool to the final of the FA cup, innit? Why wasn't Kenny given 4-5 years?
It is not about Liverpool's past at the moment, that has been lost in last 20-25 years. It is about the present and winning now. If as per BR, you are not that far behind in squad quality but only in quantity then why are they behind Spurs, Everton and West Brom? Why are they fighting for a top 10 spot with Swansea and Stoke? Do those clubs have more quality in quanity in their overall squads than Liverpool?
I wasn't comparing Allen to Carrick, more like stating his quality.
'Ridges did not create many problems. We were 2-0 up and have developed this nasty habit of switching off once ahead. Hum D come in and starting shooting on sight. Anyways, it's early days and I wouldn't pronounce a judgement on him just yet. Though I have my doubts.
This every new manager should be given 4-5 years talk infuriates me. It stems from the fact that it took Fergie that long to win United it's first league title so every manager should given the same length. Fergie also won 4 trophies in the years before he won his first league title doesn't get mentioned though. No one takes into consideration that times have changed since then. Clubs, football, football administration, financial implications, general patience levels, everything has changed. No doubt managers need time but they also need to show constant improvement, which Liverpool have not shown yet. BR has spent £40m since he has come in.
Newcastle is not the right example. They did not strengthen the team much in the summer and most of the first team has been injured this season. The main architects of an excellent last season - Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, defenders have been injured for the most part. Ba wanted to leave and now the issue with Coloccini. It's funny to laugh at Pardew and his eight year contact, in reality they have been hampered by injuries this season.
The thing with Rodgers is that he has come in, made some purchases but Liverpool is at the same if not at worse level than last year. If you think that with the quality of their squad this is their right position then why was the previous manager replaced? He won the Carling cup and took Liverpool to the final of the FA cup, innit? Why wasn't Kenny given 4-5 years?
It is not about Liverpool's past at the moment, that has been lost in last 20-25 years. It is about the present and winning now. If as per BR, you are not that far behind in squad quality but only in quantity then why are they behind Spurs, Everton and West Brom? Why are they fighting for a top 10 spot with Swansea and Stoke? Do those clubs have more quality in quanity in their overall squads than Liverpool?
I wasn't comparing Allen to Carrick, more like stating his quality.
'Ridges did not create many problems. We were 2-0 up and have developed this nasty habit of switching off once ahead. Hum D come in and starting shooting on sight. Anyways, it's early days and I wouldn't pronounce a judgement on him just yet. Though I have my doubts.
This every new manager should be given 4-5 years talk infuriates me. It stems from the fact that it took Fergie that long to win United it's first league title so every manager should given the same length. Fergie also won 4 trophies in the years before he won his first league title doesn't get mentioned though. No one takes into consideration that times have changed since then. Clubs, football, football administration, financial implications, general patience levels, everything has changed. No doubt managers need time but they also need to show constant improvement, which Liverpool have not shown yet. BR has spent £40m since he has come in.
With the signing of Sturridge Liverpool are almost approaching £600m of player purchases since the Premier League started
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/liverpool-transfers.html
Emile Heskey once cost 11 million. Heskey, Diouf and Titty Camara old Houllier sure loved talent-less forwards!Stewart Downing all league goals and assist 2011-12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccxZ_9O_nSY&&hd=1&autoplay=1&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccxZ_9O_nSY&&hd=1&autoplay=1&fs=1
I'm presuming Kenny got the boot because he spent nearly £140m and didn't make the team any better. I think it would be harsh to compare Kenny's horrific splurges with Rodgers, given that £12/40m of the latters investment has played 1 competitive game, whilst £10/40m has been injured all season. The only player that was bought as a first team player who has had the opportunity to prove himself is Allen, who hasn't set the world alight, but is an upgrade on what they have.
I think it would be harsh to sack Rodgers right now, whereas I think Kenny was a one man comedy show that should have been sacked the second he wore that ridiculous T shirt (if not when he agreed to pay £35m for Carroll).
Oh I don't think anyone is saying he should be sacked this instant, he should be given at least til the end of the season and maybe next season as well, but on the evidence of what we've seen so far, I don't think many of us are convinced he'll be the one to take Liverpool to the next level (which is fine by me). Of course it takes time when you come to a new club, but there are some indicators which say a lot. I don't think he's yet got the skin to manage a club under such scrutiny, and I don't think he's even got the talent (yet, it will come with experience) to pretend to be the amazing manager he is. He's not completely tactically inept of course, and he'll get the odd decision right, but I'm not convinced he'll be able to make big important decisions (his use of Gerrard more or less proves this) and the philosophy he likes to talk about so much is just going to hamper him in the long run. When you're Pep and you've got Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in your team, you can get away with having one system. BR won't, and I think he's incapable of having a secondary gameplan. If you look at football's history, you'll see that managers that believe in one type of system always stumble at one moment or another, and the ones successful in the long run are those capable of adapting to different situations. And this is without factoring in the notion that Rodgers isn't even that good at implementing and getting the best out of his preferred style of play.
I totally agree. Also the problem I see is that every manager (bar Hodgson) since Houllier has catered more to the hardcore fans than anything else.
Their manager needs to make the fans realise expectations, instead of saying stupid shit like a month ago that they can finish second, or blaming everything on officials and bad luck. They need to realise that they aren't a top 6 team, their squad is not at the level of United, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea or City and that steady progression, not built on a rocky foundation is the way forward.
To be perfectly honest they need a total squad overhaul which could take 4-5 years and bringing in new managers who splurge cash and later get sacked leaving undesirable players on big wages is dumb. They should look at Spurs as a model when Redknapp took over, they are now a much better team whose wage bill is far lower.
I personally don't think Rodgers is the man, given his bizarre, delusional ranting. But they need stability irrespective and can they really get someone much better than Rodgers nowadays? The fact is at the moment he is performing adequately with the squad at his disposal. If Sturridge and Borini prove to be decent signings it'll help and once they can get the wage bill down like Tottenham had to do 4~ years ago they'll be in better shape.
I personally wouldn't be surprised if Carragher retires, Carroll leaves for £10-15m, Henderson for £8-9m, Shelvey for £2-3m and Downing for £7-8m in the Summer. This would free up probably £15m a season in wages and probably £30m in fee's, the question of course is how they spend it.
The problem with Liverpool is that they're now struggling to attract the big names in football. Once a while a gem like Suarez is found but even he cost £23m. Liverpool's owners have seen a lot of money gone to waste on the likes of carroll, downing & henderson, and could be afraid to give BR such money to spend, or maybe they just don't have that kind of money anymore.
A squad overhaul to send an 8th placed team to 4th place team probably needs at least £30m, probably more. Like you said if they sell Carroll & Downing and maybe Henderson they might free up some cash but then who could they attract? With BR's limited experience he could struggle to find bargains who could reignite Liverpool. His major signing Allen hasn't lived up to expectations and £15m was way too much. Swansea won't be complaining though.
Yup, and if they dont get into europe this year, you have to wonder if Suarez wont push for a move.
Even the latest signing is a bit mediocre for me, I've seen lots of dreamy adulation of the performance against us in the last half hour, talk of a new dawn and if sturridge had just 'put one of those away or passed instead' how different things would be, but the future will be wonderful because it will all gel.
The problem is that half hour was sturridge. Yes, he can score - and make no mistake, easy tap in for the finish but the hard part was being there to take advantage, he did well in that respect - but he is also selfish beyond belief and prone to shoot on sight even in impossible situations. He doesnt really get better than that, which is why chelsea let him go for twelve million.
Rather than an indicator of a golden dawn, it was a pretty good indicator of what he brings to the team. A few goals and a ton of frustration. He isnt someone who can lift them from 8th to 4th next season thats for sure.
The owners have made a commitment to Rodgers and his "philosophy" so the least they can do is give him a chance. He needs about 2 or 3 years to really show what he can do. Liverpool are in a right state, in terms of challenging for the title again. They're miles off & it's partly down to City coming into money & replacing them as a top 4 team. The Man City that they now cheer for because it might stop us from winning the league.
Liverpool will have to attract players as Spurs and Arsenal have. Bear in mind Liverpool pay roughly the same as Arsenal.
£15m in wages is enough to get in 4 quality players (assuming £80k each). I'm not saying they should be looking at Falcao... Even in the Premier League maybe they should look at the likes of Cabaye instead of Henderson, Ruiz or Benteke instead of Carroll. Possibly someone like Hangeland/Chico for the retired Carragher. This is preying on similar teams who have probably got half the wage budget of Liverpool.
Liverpool's scouting policy needs addressing regardless. Apart from Suarez, when was the last time they bought an overseas player who was a good addition - Torres? If a club like Swansea can scout good players such as Michu/Hernandez/Chico... Who'd all be great additions to Liverpool's squad, why can't Liverpool who have a substantially higher budget?
You only need to look at Henderson, Carroll, Downing, Adam, Enrique, Konchesky and most recently Allen to realise that just because they are "proven" in the Premier League doesn't mean they are suddenly going to become world beaters because they have a Liverpool crest on their shirt.
Well if they wanted to do well with transfers, they should start looking outside the Prem. Newcastle has done well by finding some gems outside of the PL, Cabaye is a perfect example. If he moves to another Premier League club, he'll cost an arm and a leg and will probably ask for big wages. But Liverpool's scouting system seems completely messed up, apart from Suarez which player have they brought in and has done well here recently? Looking in Spain, France, Germany, South America, there's bargains to be found everywhere, and the Liverpool name surely still has some pull with young players looking to raise their profile. However, the club seem completely unable to find these deals and continue to overpay for players in England (already in part overpriced), most of them British (definitely overpriced in this case).
It's not that simple to be fair. Liverpool is the team who had ball possession more than any other team in Premier League and they are definitely playing better than last season (when they were almost un-watchable). Sacking BR would be a huge mistake. I don't think that they should give him 5 years, but 2 or 3 years are necessarily to judge a manager.
About signing I don't think that BR signings can be compared with massive failures of Kenny. Allen has played well and although they over-payed for him (but who doesn't these years) he could be a good player in the future, and for now is an upgrade of what they have. Don't judge him in only United game when for most of the time he looked like a Sunday league player, everybody has his bad moments. Sturridge is too early to judge. I thought that it is a bad signing, considering his last years and him being in Robben's level of selfishness but he could do some work, at-least for now. And didn't cost a fortune, especially considering that he is young and English and most likely they can have their money back if they decide to sell him in 2-3 years. But considering that they were suffering for strikers, still him is a big improvement on what they had (well a 18 years old boy, an injured Borini and Steward zero contribute Downing). Borini doesn't look well, he wasn't that good at Roma either so it is a bit strange signing.
Though the signing are not stellar, I think that they are pretty decent and although Liverpool is in the same position that it was last season still there is an improvement. Almost forgot, Suarez is playing exponentially better than in past, so some credit should take the manager for it. If the club back BR, and he can improve even a little bit the team in the summer I can see Liverpool challenging for the fourth place, which they should realize that this is the maximum they can dream for the next few years.
I agree with most of your points Revan, however I don't really buy into the "they've improved even though they're at the same level as last year": for me, the only indication of progress is the league table, you can adopt a style where you keep possession and your play isn't too bad, but that doesn't especially mean you're making progress. And especially not when last year they could pretty much complain about the lack of goals, with Suarez seemingly unable to score in a whorehouse and all the posts (though that was overdone, if you're hitting the post, it's not that you're unlucky, it's just that you're not good enough). This year, their main striker is going through a purple patch and firing on all cylinders, so they don't really have any excuses on that front. When you look at their results, I don't think there are any that are especially undeserved, I think their position reflects their level.
As for Suarez, I think you're pretty generous in attributing his success this season to Rodgers. I may be wrong, but I don't see anything special Rodgers has done to make Suarez better. Basically, the Uruguayan's problem was that he couldn't finish. I'm sure he was aware of that, worked on it, and seems to be going through a phase where a lot of what he touches turns to gold upfront. But if I'm wrong and Rodgers did indeed replace him or make any major tweeks to allow him to shine, I'll be glad to admit I'm mistaken. I'm just under the impression the one to really congratulate for Suarez's form this season is the man himself, he seems to have corrected his major flaw and in consequence is doing very well.
As for Suarez, I think you're pretty generous in attributing his success this season to Rodgers. I may be wrong, but I don't see anything special Rodgers has done to make Suarez better. Basically, the Uruguayan's problem was that he couldn't finish. I'm sure he was aware of that, worked on it, and seems to be going through a phase where a lot of what he touches turns to gold upfront. But if I'm wrong and Rodgers did indeed replace him or make any major tweeks to allow him to shine, I'll be glad to admit I'm mistaken. I'm just under the impression the one to really congratulate for Suarez's form this season is the man himself, he seems to have corrected his major flaw and in consequence is doing very well.
I honestly see no progress, they pass the ball well among themselves at the back, against teams that happily let them pass, but they offer nothing going forward, that's like tiki without the taka.
Barcelona are tiki-takaing their way across the final third, while rodgers are just tiki-tiki-ing behind the halfway line, there's a big difference.
Possession means jackshit when you have 0 shots on goal (I haven't bother to check, but I'm sure their shots on target are poor)
When was the last time they had a nicely taken team goal, most of their goals are from individual brilliance (mostly Suarez's)
Seriously, I didn't see anything that resembles "PHILOSOPHY" of BR. It's just a pass pass around the back and give it to Suarez. No tactical awareness, no clear game plan, no understanding between players, and the results were abysmal, they've not won against the top 10, even QPR manages a fluky win against Chelsea
EDIT : don't get me wrong, I think BR is a good manager, but he's not the philosophical manager he claim to be, he's just spouting bullshits to buy him time (whether he can deliver or not is to be seen),
He's brought through Sterling who has had a good season and Allen started quite well, but has looked mediocre now that Lucas is back. I think once you start to see Borini, Sturridge and Allen playing a few games you can start to judge him properly. He is basically adopting a new style with a squad he inherited and as it stands he is exactly where you'd have put them at the start of the season.
Only the deluded scousers thought they'd be challenging for the Champions League this year and I'd say that they are on course for a solid 6th or 7th place finish (if they carry on earning 1.4 points per game they'll finish with a couple more than last season, I personally wouldn't be surprised if they finished with around 56-57). As I say it's about managing expectations, they aren't going to finish higher than any of Arsenal, Chelsea, us, City or Tottenham in the next 2-3 seasons.
Only the deluded scousers thought they'd be challenging for the Champions League this year and I'd say that they are on course for a solid 6th or 7th place finish (if they carry on earning 1.4 points per game they'll finish with a couple more than last season, I personally wouldn't be surprised if they finished with around 56-57). As I say it's about managing expectations, they aren't going to finish higher than any of Arsenal, Chelsea, us, City or Tottenham in the next 2-3 seasons.
Yes clearly. He has done well in the middle of the park. He is twice the player Spearing is. As tomatoe states Henderson is not the player to dictate play in the way Allen can. While I hoe he can improve his confidence is shot to pieces at the moment. I really don't know why you target Allen as a bad piece of business by Rodgers. I think Carroll was a far sillier move in that he let a striker who the club had invested heavily in leave on loan when he only had one fully fit striker available. That was certainly a much more questionable decision than buying Allen in my view.
It took Ferguson 4 years to win his first trophy at united. That was the fa cup not the league. Took him another 3 years to win the league I think. Of course I understand times have changed since Ferguson took over but constant improvement is possible but do you not think that demanding that after three quarters of a season is a bit precious? Steady, gradual improvement is possible with a few set backs. Instant conversion of a team from ordinary to outstanding requires millions of pounds and for me isn't what Liverpool FC should strive for. I would like LFC to challenge for the title overnight but without a sugar daddy or ridiculous luck I cant see it happening.
Newcastle are a good example of a team being held up as outstanding and falling miles short this year. They only just lost Ba and while Cabaye and Ben Arfa have been out a good portion of this year they should have a decent enough squad to cope but it just looks like they had a lucky season last term.
Sturridge caused problems to united defence. Whether they went to sleep or not he still got in a few times. I've also made my opinion on Allen clear.
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