Yep, that's me. Silly old Dumby.
Brentan Rodgers
- Thread starter The Neviller
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Yep, that's me. Silly old Dumby.
I don't think you really need to see much of Adam Lallana, who will be 27 before the season is through, to know that £25 million was an excessive fee for a guy who's going to be nothing more than a squad player. The £20 million spent on both Lovren and Markovic also look excessive.
Or just judge a teams players when they've not even played.You can when its Brendon's players. You can't when its LvG's.
Honestly Barney, its like the first time you've come onto Redcafe.
They could have outbid Arsenal or insisted for Sanchez for Suarez deal, tried for Alonso, Khedira Lucas Moura, Lavezzi were all supposedly available. But Ballotelli and Lambert to replace Suraez?
They've not even played 10 games between them and you're already judging the buys. Eboue's post earlier was spot on.
Lavezzi and Moura are shite though, and Alonso and Khedira would have been rather poor buys for them, a past it playmaker (they have one in Slippy) and an injured CM who relies on his physique in part.
Blind would have been a very good signing for Liverpool to replace Lucas.
Blind would have been a very good signing for Liverpool to replace Lucas.
Hang on Adam, is it fair to say Origi for 10 million is bad business when he's only 19 and hasn't even played for them yet?
It's as abhorrent as Valencia replacing Ronaldo.
Judging them when they've not even played is a tad worse, much like judging United after 3 games with 10-11 injuries to it's first team
In other news scouser in backing Arsenal fan shocker.
I must have made up all those games that Lovren and Lallana have already played in the PL then.
Lallana is just not a £25 million player. I'll be very surprised if he manages to be anything more than a squad player.
Lovren is alright, but I don't think he's much of an improvement (if he is at all) on what you already had. £20 million for him when you're letting Agger go for £3 million just seems absurd. It was only a couple of months ago that you were on about how Agger was going to Barcelona.
Admittedly I've not seen much of Markovic, but by the same token he's only played a handful of senior games in his career. £20 million for a relatively unproven winger when your team is crying out for quality elsewhere is just silly. He's still young enough to make a mark though, so I'll reserve judgment on him for now just to keep you quiet.
Liverpool's big thing this summer has been about how they needed to build a bigger, stronger squad, and given the sales and players they've sent out on loan, I really don't think they've done that at all.
It's stupid to judge how good a transfer is based on form they've shown for other teams.
We're not going to agree on your assessments of Lallana or Lovren so it's best to just leave it there. If they show the form they showed last season then they'll be well worth their respective fees.
Markovic has played 117 games in his career. 49 of those came last season at Benfica. How on earth is that a 'handful'?
Which players have we sold/loaned that made a significant impact on our first team last year? Agger and Suarez. We've got a much bigger squad and a better squad too (though we undoubtedly lack that bit of star quality that Suarez had).
To be fair, Markovic could turn out to be a great buy for Liverpool, sooner or (more likely) later, as could Can and Moreno. Daft money for Lallana though, but he could become a useful addition.
Strange that the only truly stellar Rodgers signing(so far), Sturridge, if you believe the rumours, was forced on him.
Though I'd say his best move is getting someone to start ahead of Glen Johnson.
Strange that the only truly stellar Rodgers signing(so far), Sturridge, if you believe the rumours, was forced on him.
Though I'd say his best move is getting someone to start ahead of Glen Johnson.
Lovren has had a dismal start to his career at Liverpool. Himself and Sakho will give away a shitload of goals with both of them having this rash "step up" mentality that always seems to end in teams having space in behind rather than actually being caught offside or pressured high up.
I'm not saying his buys are poor Chorley as they have hardly kicked a ball for Liverpool. I was only responding to a post that said who else could he have bought! So don't understand the Valencia post?
I watched Lovren versus Spurs and he was outstanding.
Liverpool fans should pretending that nobody has watched the likes of Lambert and Lallana before. They've been playing in the league for the last two years. If people don't rate them then its not because of Liverpool first four matches.
Lallana is obviously not worth 25m but he'll do a good job for them. He suits their style and I thought he looked good for someone who was making his debut. You pay the premium for English players like we have with Shaw.
Lovren on the other hand is a poor buy. Said it before they signed him and it's become even more obvious now that's he played for them that he's not good enough for a top 4 team. Sakho, Skrtel and Lovren is a terrible trio of defenders to have.
Moreno looks good and well worth what Liverpool paid for him. Could even turn out to be a bargain this one.
Manquillo has been ok but looks a bit lost in the attacking areas. Still young though.
Not seen enough of Can or Markovic to pass judgement.
Lovren on the other hand is a poor buy. Said it before they signed him and it's become even more obvious now that's he played for them that he's not good enough for a top 4 team. Sakho, Skrtel and Lovren is a terrible trio of defenders to have.
Moreno looks good and well worth what Liverpool paid for him. Could even turn out to be a bargain this one.
Manquillo has been ok but looks a bit lost in the attacking areas. Still young though.
Not seen enough of Can or Markovic to pass judgement.
Agreed. Lallana, the most subbed player in the league last season (= lack of stamina for me) and the totally out of his depth Lambert (decent player, relatively inexperienced, and hardly top 4 material). It seems Brenton has had no say in transfers, and they've been made by a board of yanks, possibly pulling names out of a hat at random. Not so sure Brenton would have gone for such mediocrity in the summer window. Dippers can say what they like about Shaw being over priced, but that will look a snip in the long run towards the £25m for Lallana, that can't seem to ever get 90 mins under his belt. First post in the mains, tbh I'm glad to be away from the idiocy/delusion of scousers telling us Coutinho is better than Mata (haha ffs).
When Balotelli became available and it was looking like it was on, the yanks would have been jumping round the boardroom, cocks pout declaring it to be the best bit of business ever. At the same time, Brenton was probably sat in his office, head in hands, crying, thinking we've just swapped Hannibal Lecter for Ronald McDonald.
I'll never understand the signing of Lambert. A lot of sentiment in the story of lambert playing for his boyhood club, having been let go by Liverpool at a young age, then playing through all four divisions of English football. He's not the quality they needed.
Signings will take time to settle in even Louis van Gaal keeps stressing this so who knows what Tan Rodgers can do with them.
The question I have is what happens in the event of no top four?
(In my opinion)
United will repeat this window and throw even more money at the problem and likely end up with a team that's on paper one of the very best in the world.
I don't know about Arsenal, I can see them also throwing money at the problem.
What about Liverpool? I'm not sure if they have the same financial might of those teams. And it's hard enough to attract top talent with champions league football and Suarez money, what happens then?
The question I have is what happens in the event of no top four?
(In my opinion)
United will repeat this window and throw even more money at the problem and likely end up with a team that's on paper one of the very best in the world.
I don't know about Arsenal, I can see them also throwing money at the problem.
What about Liverpool? I'm not sure if they have the same financial might of those teams. And it's hard enough to attract top talent with champions league football and Suarez money, what happens then?
I'd have started Lambert on Sat if I was also starting Lallana. This has the hindsight advantage of having watched Mario's non-contribution obv, but L & L have played together quite a lot so go with that rather than 3 'strangers'.
I don't get why people think Shaw is overpriced.
Lallana will be 32 in 6 seasons, Luke Shaw in 13 seasons so that would work out to £4.2m per season for Lallana and £2.3m for Shaw.
Who knows how long they will play for at the top or even if Shaw will be sold in his prime possibly generating a profit, nobody knows. However as of now it's looking like Lallana is much more expensive than Shaw but I don't know if he is much better.
Lallana is 26 and possibly at the peak of his powers. What you see is what you're going to get. Shaw is a kid, that developed right will turn into the Roberto Carlos of his generation (but better defensively), of this I have no doubt. Hard to say who's better atm. One at his peak, the other up and coming and viewed as one of the finest defensive prospects in world football (hence his price tag). Ask the same question in a couple of seasons and the answer won't be rocket science. Shaw will be renowned as world class and worth more than what we paid for him, whereas LFC will probably be shipping the continually substitute-laden Lallana out for pennies as they try to fix the once again sinking ship. I remember the scousers thinking the signing of Downing was going to be a revelation, same standard as Lallana (good, but not quite good enough). Different positions, granted. But Shaw > Lallana any/every day of the week.
Hmm, not sure about that. He was great at recovering from mistakes but they were all his own mistakes which shouldn't really have happened in the first place.
Pretty average start to his career here but hopefully a run of games with a settled back four will help him improve.
P.S. I think you're overrating Luke Shaw, brewlio.
We shall see. Isn't subjectivity a marvellous thing?
Yep. I don't disagree with the whole post by the way, more so the Lallana part, but thinking that Shaw is a certainty to be world class is silly to me, as is thinking he'll be anywhere near the attacking force that Roberto Carlos was.
Lallana is a decent player. Probably not worth £25million like you say but in this market he's not a million miles off that price. I think he'll be a decent buy personally but also strongly doubt he'll ever be a key-player during his time at Anfield.
I would agree about Lovren. Liverpool supporters have really taken to him but to me, he's just another decent centre back which a good 5-10 other players could have fitted the bill for. Then again, maybe us United supporters shouldn't criticise with how our centre backs are getting on currently.
Markovic is a weird one. I thought he was meant to be more about taking players on, stretching the game and generally another player a bit like Sterling but so far he seems to be restricted/restrained a little bit (either that or just feeling his way into the team.) He's definitely one to watch though. Could go either way.
Right. But you can't label them bad buys before they've played a season for us. That is all I am saying.
What?
He's good enough to be fourth choice for us. When Origi comes back next year that's what I expect he will be.
I would have started Lambert too. As you say, Lallana and Lambert linked up very nicely at Southampton.
I agree Shaw will likely be one of the best full backs around (he's not going to be anywhere near Carlos going forward and he won't be worth more than what you paid for him either). I also agree he'll likely reach higher heights than Lallana. I don't think Lallana will be Downing mark 2 though. Downing lacked any character whatsoever and that's something you can't say about Lallana. At 26 a player can still develop.
Of all our summer signings so far, the one I've been most impressed with is Manquillo. Hope we manage to sign him.
Emre Can reminds me of Javi Garcia in that even though he has the physical ability to be a success in the Premier League he seems a step too slow, He was the strangest signing Liverpool made in the Summer IMO, Although he is only young so may eventually come good once he adapts but at the current time id stick my neck out and say he is nowhere near the level to be starting for a team with Champions League aspirations
Bren-tan....I get it.
His injury is a real kick in the teeth because we need his versatility. I haven't seen enough of him pre-Liverpool to debate how good he is but so far (only pre-season really, doesn't mean too much) he's looked like he'll fit in well.
Luke Shaw? Brewlio? You've lost me Bob?
Bad wording by me, couldn't be bothered it but the p.s. was a reply to brewlio's post on Shaw/Lallana, the rest was a reply to your post.
There is a buyout clause on his loan deal isn't there? No rush either, two year loan.
Is that all?
I think you missed the point. I'm not judging either set of players, nor is Barney.
So you have to wait to the end of the season to see if Di Maria is better than Lallana?
I thought Manquillo looked to be another Kromkamp/Josemi whereas Moreno looked quite raw but with the talent to make much more of an impact.
To see who will actually have the bigger impact on the league? Clearly so.
He can be recalled after the first year of the loan if Atletico guve us a fee. If they do want him back, I hope we just decide to pay more and bring him in permanently.
Manquillo reminds me a lot of Arbeloa. I really like him. Moreno looks very good going forward and has looked ok defensively since the City game.
Was thinking Manqy as more Arbeloa.
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