Only if you are ignorant, no youth player can be labeled the next R9/Maradona/etc. It's unfair to the player as well
Brazilian Wonderkido - Endrick
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Only if you are ignorant, no youth player can be labeled the next R9/Maradona/etc. It's unfair to the player as well
R9 was warming the bench for Romario when he was 17 was he not?
Every current Brazilian forward would be warming the bench for Romario, if it came down to this, whether they’re 17 or not.
Pretty sure Ronaldo was scoring for fun for Cruzeiro when he was 17, and got the move to PSV before turning 18, kept scoring for fun over there too.
Don’t know much about Endrick but these comparisons are wild.
Romario had a fantastic World Cup and won the Ballon d'Or that year.
And still, with the final tied and scoreless the Brazil fans were chanting "Ronaldinho, Ronaldinho" asking Parreira to bring him on.
This kid is nowhere near that level.
It was sad to watch Brazil yesterday, for anybody who remembers what Brazil used to be - a squad full of geniuses, a total entertainment of footballing brilliance
Current lot, especially forwards, wouldnt even be good enough to warm the bench for the great Brazillian teams of the past
Current lot, especially forwards, wouldnt even be good enough to warm the bench for the great Brazillian teams of the past
I'm nearing 40 and I haven't ever seen that Brazil full of geniuses, total entertainment of footballing brilliance outside a few isolated games here and there, most of them friendlies
The Confed Cup final in 2005 when Brazil demolished Argentina will always be etched in my brain. Adriano's goals, Kaka's finisher, that was one of the best I've seen a team play. They were great throughout that tournament as well, played well to beat Germany in a close game (after which I remember Ze Roberto said they were playing at 50%
).Yeah. One game. In the jinxed tournament that guaranteed you'd crash and burn in the subsequent world cup if you won it, too. A glorified friendlyThe Confed Cup final in 2005 when Brazil demolished Argentina will always be etched in my brain. Adriano's goals, Kaka's finisher, that was one of the best I've seen a team play. They were great throughout that tournament as well, played well to beat Germany in a close game (after which I remember Ze Roberto said they were playing at 50%
2002 they played the same as ever. Great, solid defence, lots of running and then Ronaldo and/or Rivaldo would pull a rabbit out of the hat and win the game. They were far from this spectacular, joga bonito flag bearers
I think Endrick is great and he will show it at Madrid. I want to see more of him and especially how he does in Europe, before I say anything about him with great confidence, but he should go on to have a great career in the continent, just not one of an all-time great IMO
Calling a 17 year old a clown A lot of people are acting like clowns at 17, without having the world at their feet as well
If anything I feel sorry for him if the people that surround him are only there for their self-interest and personal gain
Calling a 17 year old a clown
A lot of people are acting like clowns at 17, without having the world at their feet as wellIf anything I feel sorry for him if the people that surround him are only there for their self-interest and personal gain
Watched the highlights and he pretty much looked how I’d expect a 17 year old to play against grown men — especially a physical Bielsa managed Uruguayan side.
Makes Yamal’s performances at the Euros - whilst being a whole year younger - all the more mental…
Makes Yamal’s performances at the Euros - whilst being a whole year younger - all the more mental…
It's a kid, yet,1 successful pass in 90 minutes and its from the kick off, it's fecking crazy
It is a crazy stat until you see their midfield. So poor.
I absolutely get the point, yet also sometimes some great perfomances from some teams come when they sadly loose. Brazil had some of those too these last decades, yet it's true that having players like those Brazil had since 94 and specially in 2002/2006 and 2010 in potential they could had more extraordinary matches.
This lack of extraordinary perfomances that we all expect from such names in their rooster, it's mostly related to sometimes having more names than an actual team and that people till this day doesn't get that it's not easy to train and have a team with so many names big really important in their clubs with certain roles and later travel tons of miles to get together and leave aside egos and vices that comes to do another role in the NT.
That is why it's a lot more succesful always trying to put as much as TOP players a manager come from the same club when thsoe are quality and playing great.
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There were a lot of positives from his performance but he was desperate to steal the show. He even literally took the ball off his teammate on a counter and proceeded to lose it instead of making a run off the ball.
I also said this in the Copa America thread whilst watching but I don't think I've ever seen such a ballsy 17 year old at this level. The pinching the ball off his teammate thing, telling his teammates off for letting the opposition win the header from a corner, always in the refs ear. He also wasn't afraid of giving it back to Araujo.
@antohan summed him up well on the previous page. Even when in possession of the ball, he leaves it to deliberately shoulder barge Valverde, bounced off him, lost possession, and Brazil were crying for a foul but the ref just played on.
The ref was very good last night and didn't take to all the antics, but I digress!
I also said this in the Copa America thread whilst watching but I don't think I've ever seen such a ballsy 17 year old at this level. The pinching the ball off his teammate thing, telling his teammates off for letting the opposition win the header from a corner, always in the refs ear. He also wasn't afraid of giving it back to Araujo.
@antohan summed him up well on the previous page. Even when in possession of the ball, he leaves it to deliberately shoulder barge Valverde, bounced off him, lost possession, and Brazil were crying for a foul but the ref just played on.
The ref was very good last night and didn't take to all the antics, but I digress!
The Confed Cup final in 2005 when Brazil demolished Argentina will always be etched in my brain. Adriano's goals, Kaka's finisher, that was one of the best I've seen a team play. They were great throughout that tournament as well, played well to beat Germany in a close game (after which I remember Ze Roberto said they were playing at 50%
Oh I remembered that, they kicked our arses to the moon.
I remember it also because it's one of the in my view 3 emblematic Jose Pekerman's bad coached matches (that Confed, Friendly against England, Friendly against Croatia) that came all together in the 4th match against Germany in WC2006...he comitted very similar "mistakes for me" in all of them.
In that Confed he decided to play against Brazil with very not dinamic passing mid and with freaking Lucho Figueroa as striker, leaving Tevez and Aimar in the bench, the Brazilains started scoring more or less in the 10th minute and sailed to victory. It was no surprised either that we showed a little bit of face when Aimar and Tevez got in, fo figure...I still love Pekerman anyway.
Embarrassing stat no matter what age you are.
R9 scored 44 goals in his first 47 games for Cruzeiro at 16 and 17, and went on to score 35 in 36 for PSV in his first season there at 18.
It was the peak Romario though, the one who scored 30/33 for Barca and won them the LaLiga title and was awarded FIFA player of the year 93/94 and Golden ball winner of the WC 94 who Brazil won. No shame in warming the bench for him for a 17 year old. That Romario is a couple of steps up from Vini jr.
Endrick has 21 goals in 82 games for Palmeiras in his career. Why he's hyped like R9 I don't know (is he though), they're not the same gravy. I think he'll need time to handle and make his mark on European football at the top level. Great talent, but put in a poor performance against Uruguay. No shame in not killing it at international level at 17 though.
Do you actually remember their games? Turkey?(both times) belgium? Joga bonito, they were not
Brazil have nearly always in my lifetime had an issue with deeper ball-playing centre midfielders - either seems to be defensive destroyers or number 10s. It has definitely cost them in a few tournaments over the years.
Their midfields in World Cups in the games they went out:
2006 - Ze Roberto, Juninho, Gilberto Silva
2010 - Melo, Gilberto Silva, Kaka
2014 - Fernandinho, Luiz Gustavo, Oscar (Paulinho played some of the other games)
2018 - Paulinho, Fernandinho, Coutinho
2022 - Casemiro, Paqueta
The only player there that was world-class at the time was Casemiro I think, and Tite gave him no help at all - a midfield two with only Paqueta an attack-minded player with him against Croatia of Modric, Brozovic and Kovacic - terrible tactics. Gilberto Silva was a good player too and they could do with him now, but not world-class. Plenty of mediocre players there too when you consider the quality of midfielders of other teams like Spain and Germany at the time.
They played physical defensive football with the occasional moment of genius by Ronaldo or Rivaldo, sometimes somebody did something spectacular but more often than not it was for entertainment's sakeI think so but I was 12 so that's why I'm asking
The lasting image of that Brazil was Denilson dribbling a couple Turkish defenders, then instead of passing it to a teammate or trying a cross, he turns and ends up running towards the corner flag while being chased by all of Turkey, like a man running for his life
They were far from this idealized Brazil playing awesome stuff
I suggest you watch how Maradona was playing at Endrick's age, there's a reason why he was left out of the 78 wc squad at the same age.
Not the best example. Watching Maradona in those days was a magic show every day, the noise already started and he was fantastic.
The reason why he didn't go: Menotti. Why? we would never trully know. But at that time Argentina didn't call Bochini and Maradona and people didn't got it at all, it was like not calling a young Messi and a mature Iniesta to give some sort of measure. Granted Argentina had lots of 10's in those days and Kempes in some sort of hybrid forward/10 so he could pull out that, but in an alternate universe, El Flaco took a WC from Maradona's hands.
Diego in the late 70's and first 80's in Argentina was sthg else, closer to a forward than a midfielder, but a maverick sinde day one. In fact even if stats tell very little with him, he was joint goalscorer in 1978.
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Yep, that 2002 Brazil had an air of inevitability around them, but performance wise, they hardly impressed. It was some sort of Moments FC all around.
EDIT: People were clearly mentioning Endrick in same breath as Romario and Ronaldo, saying he could reach their peak level. The thing is, even if he does get close scoring wise, he is definitely not the same kind of player, especially not even close to Ronaldo.
I have seen him a limited amount of times, so I am not the best judge, but if we take an imaginary scale of forwards in terms of style, with Haaland being on one end and Ronaldo on the other, I'd say he would end up closer to Halland.
EDIT: People were clearly mentioning Endrick in same breath as Romario and Ronaldo, saying he could reach their peak level. The thing is, even if he does get close scoring wise, he is definitely not the same kind of player, especially not even close to Ronaldo.
I have seen him a limited amount of times, so I am not the best judge, but if we take an imaginary scale of forwards in terms of style, with Haaland being on one end and Ronaldo on the other, I'd say he would end up closer to Halland.
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Why has he been chucked in as a starter already.
Pragmatic, with Rivaldo at the peak of his powers and R9 finishing the job yet with great moments involved. But not a constant menace and brilliant football. BTW R9 never was at the same level of Romario regarding finishing and even all around comprehension of the game.
Still like I've said before and giving a couple of examples Brasil in 82 even loosing was fantastic. Also even starting slowly their campaing in 86, their game against France it's one of the best matches ever (France also in 82 and 86 was extraordinary). In WC90 that first half against Argentina was remarkable to say the least, so they always had off the charts plays and moments with every NT.
The thing is that Brazil does not play possession football as their main asset (bar ocassions like 82, or in ocassions within games to control the moment), their best football was always on the break, being offensive running at you.
That is why this current Brazil, no matter lesser names, it's so out of touch. They do not have proper movement, dinamic, people offering themselves, there is no mistery why Brazil always had and played with extrarodinary wings or fullbacks, to enhace that main style of running at you in waves.
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Brazil scored 18 goals in that World Cup in 7 games, think your memory of it is a tad cynical tbh. That Denilson image for example is the first time I've thought of that in many years, don't think that's the lasting image at all. Lasting image is return of the king Ronaldo with the crazy haircut scoring 8 goals in a World Cup. They were set up pragmatically with 5 at the back but when the ball came to the forwards, they were electric in a way that nobody but Neymar has been for the Brazil team for about 15 years.
Brazil did score 18 goals, but 9 of them were against China and Costa Rica. And they suffered quite a lot in every knockout stage game, even in their last 16 game against Belgium, which really could have gone other way too.
They are somewhat comparable to France 2018, it was inevitable they would win, although France had slightly more defensive stability, while Brazil had bit more imagination and creativity.
They are somewhat comparable to France 2018, it was inevitable they would win, although France had slightly more defensive stability, while Brazil had bit more imagination and creativity.
Combination of hype, him being pretty good in Brazil, and complete lack of striker options anyways.
Yes, bad wording on my part that. I meant my lasting image of that Brazil was Denilson being chased by all of turkey, because it was fecking hilarious. Also Ronaldo's haircut and Rivaldo's dive
I think in general people expect national teams to play champagne football because they see the amount of pure talent/names in the squad and assume it's simple, but people forget it's not a league campaign. It's a knockout competition where the large majority of these players have to devise how to play with each other in the best way to continually win games. So it's far more simple for managers to set up a more pragmatic side to ensure stability first and foremost, and then rely on the stars in attack to win the game eventually instead of trying to create some free flowing football system that might not click without the sufficient playing time/training together that normal club squads have.
The Joga Bonito commercials really boosted the hype around that Brazilian team, but it ended up with them being a bit of a letdown despite winning in 2002. But that 2006 is still the greatest squad I've ever seen I think on paper.
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John Woo is the GOAT.
I specifically said prime Maradona
Yeah, agree with the sentiment regarding 2002. Brazil were the best team overall and deserving winners but it was far from jogo bonito or attacking football and more like individual brilliancy and a very solid defense.
Especially the knockouts were often a slugfest. Two late goals against Belgium, Ronaldinho brilliancy against England, the semifinal against Turkey was an incredible borefest except for that Ronaldo goal and the most jogo bonito player in the final was probably Bernd Schneider.
Especially the knockouts were often a slugfest. Two late goals against Belgium, Ronaldinho brilliancy against England, the semifinal against Turkey was an incredible borefest except for that Ronaldo goal and the most jogo bonito player in the final was probably Bernd Schneider.
I think he meant exactly that, that he was more the forward taking on an entire backline than the playmaker.
Agree with you that the reasons for him and Bochini being left out are not at all football related. In fact, whenever posters draw upon some fact implying it supports their case ("there's a reason why") they are completely wrong more often than not.
Bochini in fact was loathed by the regime, who were River fans. Unfortunately for him, his peak coincided with theirs, so only really got a handful of homage minutes against Belgium in the 86 semifinal. Both him and Maradona missed out on 1978 because River's Beto Alonso absolutely had to be there. Good as he was, Menotti clearly didn't prefer him, but had to comply.
There's a reason far more in line with the way the Argentinian FA and NT are run.
Cheers.
@giorno is right though, Brazilians hated the defensive nature and pragmatism of that team's spine.
I lived in Brazil then and there were raging debates over it because some reckoned Parreira had to be pragmatic in 1994 with the talent at his disposal but Scolari was going for defensive overkill when they could win it in style. They actually struggled in qualification even with the three Rs and CafúCarlos.
Denilson was a pisstake and my lasting image isn't just that (with R9 goofily laughing his bollocks off at the sight of it) but also one game when he dribbled his way the length of the pitch... towards his goal. Scolari deliberately used his inconsequential dribbling to run down the clock.
I'm way too old school to take this guy seriously.