[Robaldo]

Not good at all against Sevilla but would not hold too much against him at this stage of his career.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

There is a world outside of RedCafe you know.

They must all be clueless or you’re lying.

You speak about him not needing promoted yet in recent weeks Maguire has chewed him out, Lindelof has chewed him out Rashford has told him muliple times to push forward and Rashford and Martial both showed their frustrations with his poor passing and decisions recently.

Heck even Ole went at him the other day. I’ve actually never seen Ole as animated but he was yelling at him for something and telling him to use his brain.

As for Shaw, Jose the same guy that went at him for pushing forward too much and dropped him after a Norwich game because Martial lost the ball when Shaw was advancing looking for the return pass. Jose viewed that as a moment Shaw shouldn’t have been pushing forward.

Williams has a future at the club. Preferably on the right. He needs to improve greatly. Attacking phases and what he is supposed to do with the ball and defensively becuase he looks a bit of a lost sheep in both aspects.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Last season, when senior players (Matic, Lingard, Fred, Pereira, ...) under-performed, many fans wanted to play U23s such as Greenwood, Gardner, Gomes, Williams and even Chong. We were told we'd ruin their careers if we put too much pressure on them too soon. I think people who made that argument forgot their lines!, because they moved on to the United-DNA idol argument. Once the United-DNA idol hath spoke it's major heresy to question it. In the first place: United got themselves into this mess by listening too much to Luke Shaw fans who used the "Shaw's the future of the club" to argue against a getting a competitor at LB. Truth is: United always needed a left-footed LB to compete with Shaw. Now more than ever.

 

[Rozay]

Greenwood isn't the level to which every young player is to be rated. That's ridiculous, especially a young defender.

Not every young player, no. That is why some young players play for Newcastle United, others play for Manchester United. As you suggested, it’s perfectly okay for a 19 year old to not be in the same bracket of talent as Greenwood, but it is also perfectly okay for a 19 year old to not be playing for Manchester United weekly too. It isn’t the norm, or expected. In fact, it is only expected if you are a Greenwood level of talent. You would not expect any old half decent 19 year old to be lining up regularly for Manchester United. For good reason.

 

[Zlaatan]

There is a world outside of RedCafe you know.

BBC MOTM: Bruno
SKY MOTM: Martial
TheUnitedStand player ratings: Everyone bar Rashford and De Gea rated higher.
Svenskafans player ratings: Six players rated higher than Williams, who was joint 7th with the rest.

These were just the first hits in my search.

Look I get that you like the guy and want to act as some kind of counter weight to any criticism in here but your arguments almost makes the things the Ronaldo worshippers say in this forum come across as unbiased and level headed in comparison.
Well maybe not, but you get the idea.

 

[Smores]

Not every young player, no. That is why some young players play for Newcastle United, others play for Manchester United. As you suggested, it’s perfectly okay for a 19 year old to not be in the same bracket of talent as Greenwood, but it is also perfectly okay for a 19 year old to not be playing for Manchester United weekly too. It isn’t the norm, or expected. In fact, it is only expected if you are a Greenwood level of talent. You would not expect any old half decent 19 year old to be lining up regularly for Manchester United. For good reason.

Ah okay so only elite level youngsters performing to a ridiculously high level should get to play for the club now...even as a backup.

I wish someone had told Fergie.

 

[Rozay]

Ah okay so only elite level youngsters performing to a ridiculously high level should get to play for the club now...even as a backup.

I wish someone had told Fergie.

At 19, yes. Or they should be at loan to West Brom, or in the academy. And Williams has started about 8 games in a row. Including two Cup semi-finals, and been terrible in both. He’s not a back up.

Greenwood himself wouldn’t have been starting games for Manchester United at 17 if he were NOT elite level. The whole reason he’s playing already is because he’s as good as he is. Not because we should just give kids a go.

 

[Class of 63]

They must all be clueless or you’re lying.

You speak about him not needing promoted yet in recent weeks Maguire has chewed him out, Lindelof has chewed him out Rashford has told him muliple times to push forward and Rashford and Martial both showed their frustrations with his poor passing and decisions recently.

Heck even Ole went at him the other day. I’ve actually never seen Ole as animated but he was yelling at him for something and telling him to use his brain.

As for Shaw, Jose the same guy that went at him for pushing forward too much and dropped him after a Norwich game because Martial lost the ball when Shaw was advancing looking for the return pass. Jose viewed that as a moment Shaw shouldn’t have been pushing forward.

Williams has a future at the club. Preferably on the right. He needs to improve greatly. Attacking phases and what he is supposed to do with the ball and defensively becuase he looks a bit of a lost sheep in both aspects.

Maguire bollocks everybody, and that as much as anything is the reason he's Captain. What more animated than he was with Lingard a few weeks back?

You're backing up my argument that as an experienced Premier League player, and International he(Shaw) doesn't still know when to get forward, or hold his position waiting for the next phase of play, Williams even at his tender age knocks spots off him in that area of the game.

 

[Class of 63]

BBC MOTM: Bruno
SKY MOTM: Martial
TheUnitedStand player ratings: Everyone bar Rashford and De Gea rated higher.
Svenskafans player ratings: Six players rated higher than Williams, who was joint 7th with the rest.

These were just the first hits in my search.

Look I get that you like the guy and want to act as some kind of counter weight to any criticism in here but your arguments almost makes the things the Ronaldo worshippers say in this forum come across as unbiased and level headed in comparison.
Well maybe not, but you get the idea.

Considering that for the first-time since he came into the side he was totally destroyed by the spolied little rich kids amongst our fan base for his performance in the Semi against Chelsea which was picked up by the press which could have seriously knocked his confidence, and the importance of the match he was alongside Lindelof, who probably had his best game for United, our best players on the day. Even a mate who hates United with a passion said the kid(Williams)was brilliant.

https://www.unitedinfocus.com/fan-views/manchester-united-fans-react-to-brandon-williams-peformance/

Not all them tweets are me by the way.

 

[Isotope]

He’s as good/worse as his teammate on the other side that cost 55m. So if people think WB is good enough for United, William is certainly good enough also. Unless you think otherwise.

 

[ti vu]

He’s as good/worse as his teammate on the other side that cost 55m. So if people think WB is good enough for United, William is certainly good enough also. Unless you think otherwise.

AWB has exceptional one vs one defensive ability. He may prove to be square peg in round hole, however that's down to whoever push for his signing fault than the player. Another manager who play a style that suite AWB's may not complain in his ability at all. Brandon however, has a lot to prove that he's good enough. Positive player but lack the defensive ability as well as know how offensively despite possesses some useful tools.

 

[Isotope]

AWB has exceptional one vs one defensive ability. He may prove to be square peg in round hole, however that's down to whoever push for his signing fault than the player. Another manager who play a style that suite AWB's may not complain in his ability at all. Brandon however, has a lot to prove that he's good enough. Positive player but lack the defensive ability as well as know how offensively despite possesses some useful tools.

William has been great 1 on 1 too. How often do you see him get passed by? And his passing is better than AWB. So overall they’re on the same level. William is younger too. Although one of them cost us 55m. AWB might not worrh that much, but he’d still cost a lot.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

I just think a degree of common sense is required here. For a kid of 19 he has not done too badly playing in a position that he should not be playing. He should not be starting several games in a row for United but it has merely highlighted that we unfortunately cannot depend on Shaw. We absolutely need to buy a left back or at least a left footed CB that can deputise in that position. Time will tell if Williams is good enough to be backup at right back. It will depend on Laird’s fitness and progress.
We should certainly be asking a lot more questions of AWB considering how much we paid for him.

 

[SAFMUTD]

He's very similar to McTominay, in the way that they are both from the academy, both are "likeable" players for the way they play, with so much passion and determination but we wouldnt be interested in them if they were playing for another team.

We tend to overrate our youngsters, as most fans do with their own to be fair, but specially with these two I think we've gone over the top. Their passion and determination hide many flaws in their game, I don't think they'll ultimately be good enough and by the contracts we've given them I hope we dont end up in another Lingard situation with them.

 

[ti vu]

William has been great 1 on 1 too. How often do you see him get passed by? And his passing is better than AWB. So overall they’re on the same level. William is younger too. Although one of them cost us 55m. AWB might not worrh that much, but he’d still cost a lot.

Then this is in region of personal opinion. William ain't that great defending 1 vs 1. AWB can dominate, that's something else.

Age doesn't mean young players can get that much better. This belongs to raw talent, something AWB had shown 3 years ago when there is no gap in age compare to William. It can say the same the other way about AWB attacking ability hence the frustration on the paradox on the talk about the team style and the huge fee on AWB player profile.

 

[Rozay]

He's very similar to McTominay, in the way that they are both from the academy, both are "likeable" players for the way they play, with so much passion and determination but we wouldnt be interested in them if they were playing for another team.

We tend to overrate our youngsters, as most fans do with their own to be fair, but specially with these two I think we've gone over the top. Their passion and determination hide many flaws in their game, I don't think they'll ultimately be good enough and by the contracts we've given them I hope we dont end up in another Lingard situation with them.

I think this is word for word my views too.

Obviously, academy players are great. But surely, people realise we don’t exist to show off a tradition of playing kids. When it comes to Greenwood and Laird, I am overboard. I’m all for favouritism with them, just because they are genuinely as good as what we could go and get elsewhere anyway. In cases like that, and Rashford - by all means, give them preference, give them priority over signings etc, because they understand the club AND are good enough.

I’ve tried to detach emotion generally from the kids, because it serves no benefit to anyone. Overrating an academy kid makes him no better or worse than he actually is. So if you are just deluding yourself, the reality will soon come to pass with us just having a player, or players in our team that are below the standard of what others have. I’m sorry, but I cannot see, and never have seen, how any fan who wants United to have the best team and compete for the top honours in the game currently want Williams and McTominay in the team. They are midtable players (at best, in Williams’ case I think). As I said, I’d have no qualms seeing Laird given a proper shot at even displacing our £50m RB. If I was forced to choose between Greenwood and Martial, who I love - it’s Mason everyday.

It’s similar with Axel. So many fans have said on here that at the beginning of the season they were hoping he would start as Maguire’s partner. Like, why? Based on what performances? Do you actually want United to have the best team we can have or just play kids? He was okay at Villa, but he did not out in the performances that Ben White put in on loan in the Championship this season. That’s the sort of level where people should start saying ‘he could go straight into the United team’. Or what Henderson has done on loan. I’d happily take Dean over De Gea at the moment. But please, some quality control.

 

[Mercurial]

Being a youth graduate emerging in a club like United has it's fair share of problems on a good day. You don't have the clear step up from the U-side into the senior side that some foreign or lesser table teams in EPL or in other leagues have. Consistent game time is very hard to come by. It's basically being thrown into the deep end with massive pressure to perform as a Senior for this guy. In all fairness he is subbing close to fulltime for 2-3 players that have injuries or failed in front of him in that position during make or break cup matches in particular. I do think as a homegrown United player at 19 year of age under development that he need some protection and room to grow and extra benefit of the doubt. Reality has thrown him into the very deep end and he is coping. People seem to forget the United record of having played a youth graduate for 4000 games straight. This is a cornerstone of this club and as such worthy of extra leeway, mismanagement of youth or bashing of youth after stepping into the senior shoes (even if way too big) is not what we are about. It's not his fault per se that our bench is thin and the options ahead of him are made of glass or duds. On top he has the right attitude and is very likeable. Can't help but feel happy for this very aspect of the club, and it brings a treat now and then when graduates outshine expectations and grow into the shoes.

 

[Relevated]

He's very similar to McTominay, in the way that they are both from the academy, both are "likeable" players for the way they play, with so much passion and determination but we wouldnt be interested in them if they were playing for another team.

We tend to overrate our youngsters, as most fans do with their own to be fair, but specially with these two I think we've gone over the top. Their passion and determination hide many flaws in their game, I don't think they'll ultimately be good enough and by the contracts we've given them I hope we dont end up in another Lingard situation with them.

McTominay is a player who will become tremendously better with age. Im not sure about Williams but he reminds me a bit of Evans for some reason.

 

[Isotope]

Then this is in region of personal opinion. William ain't that great defending 1 vs 1. AWB can dominate, that's something else.

Age doesn't mean young players can get that much better. This belongs to raw talent, something AWB had shown 3 years ago when there is no gap in age compare to William. It can say the same the other way about AWB attacking ability hence the frustration on the paradox on the talk about the team style and the huge fee on AWB player profile.

3 years ago, AWB wasn't even better than TMF or Kelly.

 

[Offside]

He's very similar to McTominay, in the way that they are both from the academy, both are "likeable" players for the way they play, with so much passion and determination but we wouldnt be interested in them if they were playing for another team.

We tend to overrate our youngsters, as most fans do with their own to be fair, but specially with these two I think we've gone over the top. Their passion and determination hide many flaws in their game, I don't think they'll ultimately be good enough and by the contracts we've given them I hope we dont end up in another Lingard situation with them.

This is what was always said about Brown and Fletcher until both made top players for us. The talent in McT and Williams is plain to see hence why there are playing regularly in our first team and haven’t gone the same way as CBJ, Love, McNair. They can be great players for us even if they aren’t already.

 

[Krits]

He hasn’t played very well for the last month or so, but are people forgetting his earlier performances where people were saying he’s keeping Shaw out of the team and that shaw has to raise his game (which to his credit. He did).. I’m not saying he is the done deal. He might not ever make it at UTD. But when, will people learn to not judge quickly and not form opinions so quickly?

Just give the kid some time. It’s his first season at this level.

 

[Stacks]

He's very similar to McTominay, in the way that they are both from the academy, both are "likeable" players for the way they play, with so much passion and determination but we wouldnt be interested in them if they were playing for another team.

We tend to overrate our youngsters, as most fans do with their own to be fair, but specially with these two I think we've gone over the top. Their passion and determination hide many flaws in their game, I don't think they'll ultimately be good enough and by the contracts we've given them I hope we dont end up in another Lingard situation with them.

Pretty much

 

[ti vu]

3 years ago, AWB wasn't even better than TMF or Kelly.

TFM got displaced briefly.

Kelly, Ward were preferred when CP trying to survive, still whenever AWB got minutes, he impressed with his outstanding 1vs1 ability. Check that 2-3 game vs end, and post match.

TFM got plenty game time initially then displaced and never got back in.

We know when thing gets tough at relegation club, experienced was preferred. Some one like Brandon William would face similar issue like TFM and never get game time. You need exceptional ability to push for that game time. Doing decent you may end up never break through the rank.

 

[Rozay]

This is what was always said about Brown and Fletcher until both made top players for us. The talent in McT and Williams is plain to see hence why there are playing regularly in our first team and haven’t gone the same way as CBJ, Love, McNair. They can be great players for us even if they aren’t already.

This isn’t what was said about Fletcher or Brown at all.

Fletcher was seen as prodigious and offered a senior debut at 15. His full debut at 19 was extremely impressive, and he was seen as being a future top player.

Brown was consistently referred to as ‘the best natural defender’ at the club, similarly to how Greenwood is called the most natural finisher. He was also predicted a huge future, and in and around the England squad from young - at a time when they were not short of top centre halves. He struggled with fitness in the main.

One thing I will never be in favour of is deliberately investing time in developing a player in the hope that will be an average squaddie years down the line. Off the top of my head, all the squad players that came through in recent times were seen as top talents and potential regulars. They were easily the best players in the youth set up, or had at least excelled on loan. Fergie never plucked mediocre talent from the academy with the view that ‘he may be a bit shit now, but if we give him a couple hundred games, he could be a squad player in the future’. People like Evans or O’Shea who ended up as squad players had far bigger billing than McTominay or O’Shea when they were put in the first team squad. O’Shea in particular had an amazing debut season, and was a regular on merit, starting against the likes of Real. That is what you invest in, and if they later prove total shite, you sell them, and if they are good but not the best, perhaps keep them around. But I don’t agree with a long-term squad player project, and I don’t think Fergie did either.

 

[Offside]

This isn’t what was said about Fletcher or Brown at all.

Fletcher was seen as prodigious and offered a senior debut at 15. His full debut at 19 was extremely impressive, and he was seen as being a future top player.

Brown was consistently referred to as ‘the best natural defender’ at the club, similarly to how Greenwood is called the most natural finisher. He was also predicted a huge future, and in and around the England squad from young - at a time when they were not short of top centre halves. He struggled with fitness in the main.

One thing I will never be in favour of is deliberately investing time in developing a player in the hope that will be an average squaddie years down the line. Off the top of my head, all the squad players that came through in recent times were seen as top talents and potential regulars. They were easily the best players in the youth set up, or had at least excelled on loan. Fergie never plucked mediocre talent from the academy with the view that ‘he may be a bit shit now, but if we give him a couple hundred games, he could be a squad player in the future’. People like Evans or O’Shea who ended up as squad players had far bigger billing than McTominay or O’Shea when they were put in the first team squad. O’Shea in particular had an amazing debut season, and was a regular on merit, starting against the likes of Real. That is what you invest in, and if they later prove total shite, you sell them, and if they are good but not the best, perhaps keep them around. But I don’t agree with a long-term squad player project, and I don’t think Fergie did either.

Brown was bashed for years even though what you say about him is right.

Fletcher was abused for ages. Never seen a player get so much abuse at OT in a game against Lille in 2005. It was exactly the same argument against him as it is against McT. “Wouldn’t get near Chelsea’s team”, “only here because he’s an academy lad” etc. No difference whatsoever.

We know McT isn’t going to be as good as Keane and Williams isn’t a top top talent but both can be decent players for us and to say they’re only getting a chance because they’re academy lads I don’t agree with.

 

[Red00012]

Very harsh few pages on him. He’s 19 and his 1st full season. He won’t be challenging Shaw next season but he’ll do as a back up.

Didn’t help things that Rashford in front of him was as useful to him as an inflatable dart board.

 

[Zlaatan]

Considering that for the first-time since he came into the side he was totally destroyed by the spolied little rich kids amongst our fan base for his performance in the Semi against Chelsea which was picked up by the press which could have seriously knocked his confidence, and the importance of the match he was alongside Lindelof, who probably had his best game for United, our best players on the day. Even a mate who hates United with a passion said the kid(Williams)was brilliant.

https://www.unitedinfocus.com/fan-views/manchester-united-fans-react-to-brandon-williams-peformance/

Not all them tweets are me by the way.

Spoiled little rich kids?.. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the bolded part is complete bollocks and the truth is that he had a really bad game so the press simply reported what they and everyone else saw.

We clearly have very different definitions of what widely regarded means so let's just leave it be.

 

[Rozay]

Brown was bashed for years even though what you say about him is right.

Fletcher was abused for ages. Never seen a player get so much abuse at OT in a game against Lille in 2005. It was exactly the same argument against him as it is against McT. “Wouldn’t get near Chelsea’s team”, “only here because he’s an academy lad” etc. No difference whatsoever.

We know McT isn’t going to be as good as Keane and Williams isn’t a top top talent but both can be decent players for us and to say they’re only getting a chance because they’re academy lads I don’t agree with.

I’m not talking about how they finished, I’m talking about how they started. They were introduced into the team because at the time, they were considered top talents. What you are advocating is introducing players that we can confidently say already are not, and will likely never be top players. I think if that’s the criteria, we can draw academy players from a hat. Pretty much all of them, at least in defensive roles, would do a job if given hundreds of games.

 

[ti vu]

Brown was bashed for years even though what you say about him is right.

Fletcher was abused for ages. Never seen a player get so much abuse at OT in a game against Lille in 2005. It was exactly the same argument against him as it is against McT. “Wouldn’t get near Chelsea’s team”, “only here because he’s an academy lad” etc. No difference whatsoever.

We know McT isn’t going to be as good as Keane and Williams isn’t a top top talent but both can be decent players for us and to say they’re only getting a chance because they’re academy lads I don’t agree with.

These 2 had high expectation for them, and were assessed based on that. They broke though when the team had higher standard. They somewhat showed at latter in their time with us, they had it if they get a little more luck with their fitness.

Nowadays, it's all about overinflated hype after some games/ cameo.

 

[Offside]

I’m not talking about how they finished, I’m talking about how they started. They were introduced into the team because at the time, they were considered top talents. What you are advocating is introducing players that we can confidently say already are not, and will likely never be top players. I think if that’s the criteria, we can draw academy players from a hat. Pretty much all of them, at least in defensive roles, would do a job if given hundreds of games.

And I’m saying Fletcher started absolutely shite. Good run in 04/05 was followed by 2-3 mediocre years. Based on what we have seen from McTominay in 3 years, he can be a top player for us. Williams has had a very good first season looks a real talent.

 

[Carl S Bridge]

Greenwood isn't the level to which every young player is to be rated. That's ridiculous, especially a young defender.

You need to be an exceptional talent to be deserving of a starting spot at man United at 19 years of age. That was my point, if you think Williams is good enough fair play we will disagree.

 

[Rozay]

And I’m saying Fletcher started absolutely shite. Good run in 04/05 was followed by 2-3 mediocre years. Based on what we have seen from McTominay in 3 years, he can be a top player for us. Williams has had a very good first season looks a real talent.

I agree with you mate. I just mean he was given a shot in the team because the club thought he’d go on to be a very top player. Maybe that’s what they think of SM and BW to be fair, I don’t know.

 

[SAFMUTD]

This is what was always said about Brown and Fletcher until both made top players for us. The talent in McT and Williams is plain to see hence why there are playing regularly in our first team and haven’t gone the same way as CBJ, Love, McNair. They can be great players for us even if they aren’t already.

Of course they are above in talent from the ones you mentioned, but McTominay hasnt really been getting chances since Pogba came back from injury, and Williams while fighting with Shaw for the starting position is clearly below the pecking order. They both have a lot to prove before they consolidate as premier league players, never mind ManUtd quality players.

 

[lex talionis]

And I’m saying Fletcher started absolutely shite. Good run in 04/05 was followed by 2-3 mediocre years. Based on what we have seen from McTominay in 3 years, he can be a top player for us. Williams has had a very good first season looks a real talent.

Agreed. The abuse Williams is taking here is ridiculous. We can't be world class two deep at every position, or even any position. United isn't a galactico club that can buy whoever it wants. We develop young players and give those with promise a real chance. Williams has done well coming in for Shaw, who's clearly the superior left back. At 19, he's got plenty of time to improve his game.

 

[Isotope]

One thing I will never be in favour of is deliberately investing time in developing a player in the hope that will be an average squaddie years down the line. Off the top of my head, all the squad players that came through in recent times were seen as top talents and potential regulars. They were easily the best players in the youth set up, or had at least excelled on loan. Fergie never plucked mediocre talent from the academy with the view that ‘he may be a bit shit now, but if we give him a couple hundred games, he could be a squad player in the future’. People like Evans or O’Shea who ended up as squad players had far bigger billing than McTominay or O’Shea when they were put in the first team squad. O’Shea in particular had an amazing debut season, and was a regular on merit, starting against the likes of Real. That is what you invest in, and if they later prove total shite, you sell them, and if they are good but not the best, perhaps keep them around. But I don’t agree with a long-term squad player project, and I don’t think Fergie did either.

Gibson, Phil Neville, Nicky Butt and even Gary Neville weren't world beaters on their breakthrough season.

Also I don't recall O'Shea had an "amazing" debut season. He was more of utility player.

 

[Isotope]

You need to be an exceptional talent to be deserving of a starting spot at man United at 19 years of age. That was my point, if you think Williams is good enough fair play we will disagree.

William is a squad/backup player. I have no idea why you think he's a regular starter.
As squad player, he's starting games because the main FB is injured. That's the function of squad player. He's not world beater, but at acceptable level and with upside potential.

It's rare for a team to have squad FB as good as the main FB. Who are backups for TAA and Robertson? are these backups world beater or even close to those two level?

 

[sillwuka]

I think Brandon has come in and done what was expected as a backup, sure there are improvements to be made but he is young.

My argument would be if Shaw is still injured would our left side improve if we brought a more seasoned LB like a Digne etc

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He’s as good/worse as his teammate on the other side that cost 55m. So if people think WB is good enough for United, William is certainly good enough also. Unless you think otherwise.

No he isn't. AWB is comfortably better right now. Williams has shown glimpses this season of potentially being a good fullback but needs to be given time to develop (which hopefully he does do). At times he has looked worryingly all over the place but it could be part of the development cycle rather than him not being good enough. Wait and watch.

 

[Mickson]

Andy Mitten gave him a 7 in his season rating.

 

[Isotope]

No he isn't. AWB is comfortably better right now. Williams has shown glimpses this season of potentially being a good fullback but needs to be given time to develop (which hopefully he does do). At times he has looked worryingly all over the place but it could be part of the development cycle rather than him not being good enough. Wait and watch.

Maybe in season overall. But on that Sevilla game, I don't know how you can say AWB is comfortably better than Williams.