Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

OldSchoolManc said:
What part of this World Cup is acceptable to you?
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I think the quality of football and some of the moments have been worth it as a viewer. We aren’t going to change this nations ways, and there hasn’t even been that many negative stories coming out of it.
 
FriedClams said:
I think the quality of football and some of the moments have been worth it as a viewer. We aren’t going to change this nations ways, and there hasn’t even been that many negative stories coming out of it.
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Are you absolutely serious and that blinkered?!
It has been a disaster from start to finish.
 
shamans said:
bullshit? Have you ever bothered to look into what the whole point of sport is? Why do we even as viewers participate in it? We aren't making any money off of it.

Consider what it means. This world cup has opened the doors to middle east/north Africa that they never had before. They couldn't have dreamed of attending a world cup game. Now many have. They'll go back home, take those stories with them.
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Were there Visa restrictions at the other World cups? Because otherwise I don't get this point at all. I think a WC in Europe would be much more accessable to North Africa than Quatar (and cheaper as well).
 
fck said:
Were there Visa restrictions at the other World cups? Because otherwise I don't get this point at all. I think a WC in Europe would be much more accessable to North Africa than Quatar (and cheaper as well).
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Quatar as you put it is closer to a lot of countries in Asia especially India, Pakistan, Bangladesh plus closer to North Africa and mainly the Arab gulf (there are buses going from Saudi Arabia).

But also, yes, EU has a very strict visa policy compared to Qatar especially for these countries.
 
Stack said:
Some people think the world is some lovely Disney movie or Hallmark tv movie.
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Right so instead we should try and promote a country to become North Korea 2.0 and not let anyone in and not give it any attention so as to avoid them interacting with the world at all.

Nonsense such as understanding cultures or sharing values and meeting on common ground belong in Disney movies only!
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Okay Mr Infantino
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You’ve come in this thread saying you haven’t watched a single minute then dismiss people who have reported that the fans are enjoying it. So have you watched it and you’re pretending? Or are you just being dismissive because you can’t accept the truth?
 
I feel like you guys haven’t ever left the UK. Look, like Dubai, there’s so many people in these countries who are freely LGBT, going to gay nights at bars etc. The country just doesn’t want to shout about it. They aren’t out policing LGBT, looking for them and putting them in jail. The country simply doesn’t want to shout about it and officially legalise it.
 
The Corinthian said:
You’ve come in this thread saying you haven’t watched a single minute then dismiss people who have reported that the fans are enjoying it. So have you watched it and you’re pretending? Or are you just being dismissive because you can’t accept the truth?
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I watch the news. I look on social media. It is impossible to avoid because it’s the World Cup.
There is no truth whatsoever that this is a ‘successful’ World Cup.
Do you think I’m sat in a bunker somewhere unaware of the outside world?
 
shamans said:
Right so instead we should try and promote a country to become North Korea 2.0 and not let anyone in and not give it any attention so as to avoid them interacting with the world at all.

Nonsense such as understanding cultures or sharing values and meeting on common ground belong in Disney movies only!
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There are parts of qatari culture I don't want to share. You're treating abuse of lgbt and workers as if we're talking about music or food, it's all culture, so let's be understanding.
 
Just returned after a whole week in Doha.
Can't say much negative.

Very well organised tournament. Friendly people all over the place. Brilliant weather. Good food (although gastro service sometimes a bit shit). A lot of fans from different nations central in one city. All the stadiums reachable within 20-30min via Metro or Bus. Beer also available if you knew where, although really expensive.
I felt welcome and secure from the moment I arrived at the airport and would have loved to stay a few days more.
 
maniak said:
There are parts of qatari culture I don't want to share. You're treating abuse of lgbt and workers as if we're talking about music or food, it's all culture, so let's be understanding.
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This was "part of" western culture not 40-50 years ago. Societies evolve and open up to new ideas at different rates. That's never happening if you boycott them. If you held an election in Qatar on LGBTQ rights today, the results wouldn't change anything. That is to say, unless the people themselves feel a certain way you cannot force it upon them. And guess what will make people change the way they think?

Equating not boycotting the world cup to approving all LGBTQ abuse is just one of the many ridiculous things I've seen in the media. You have to look at the trajectory of a country and where it has come. Decades ago, for Qatari government to say all LGBTQ are welcome would have been insane. At the end of the day, boycotting the world cup achieves nothing for lgbtq but participating does.
 
shamans said:
This was "part of" western culture not 40-50 years ago. Societies evolve and open up to new ideas at different rates. That's never happening if you boycott them. If you held an election in Qatar on LGBTQ rights today, the results wouldn't change anything. That is to say, unless the people themselves feel a certain way you cannot force it upon them.

Equating not boycotting the world cup to approving all LGBTQ abuse is just one of the many ridiculous things I've seen in the media. You have to look at the trajectory of a country and where it has come. Decades ago, for Qatari government to say all LGBTQ are welcome would have been insane. At the end of the day, boycotting the world cup achieves nothing for lgbtq but participating does.
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What does participating in the world cup do for the lgbtq community exactly, aside from shining a light on how backwards and regressive Qatari attitudes are towards it?
 
Still not watched 1 min. Still not sure if boycotting or just no interest. Or both.
 
Pickle85 said:
What does participating in the world cup do for the lgbtq community exactly, aside from shining a light on how backwards and regressive Qatari attitudes are towards it?
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The country has gone as far as saying we don't care if you are gay, if you get your own hotel room go at it but no public display of affection (as it applies to straight folks). It's not perfect but if you compare the change from even the 1990s this would have been unimaginable in a country like Qatar
 
Wibble said:
Still not watched 1 min. Still not sure if boycotting or just no interest. Or both.
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I respect your resilience or your apathy. Or both.

The reality of the situation is that you really aren't missing out on anything life changing either way.
 
shamans said:
The country has gone as far as saying we don't care if you are gay, if you get your own hotel room go at it but no public display of affection (as it applies to straight folks). It's not perfect but if you compare the change from even the 1990s this would have been unimaginable in a country like Qatar
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Which will be reversed as soon as the WC is over.
 
shamans said:
This was "part of" western culture not 40-50 years ago. Societies evolve and open up to new ideas at different rates. That's never happening if you boycott them. If you held an election in Qatar on LGBTQ rights today, the results wouldn't change anything. That is to say, unless the people themselves feel a certain way you cannot force it upon them. And guess what will make people change the way they think?

Equating not boycotting the world cup to approving all LGBTQ abuse is just one of the many ridiculous things I've seen in the media. You have to look at the trajectory of a country and where it has come. Decades ago, for Qatari government to say all LGBTQ are welcome would have been insane. At the end of the day, boycotting the world cup achieves nothing for lgbtq but participating does.
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That's a very strange logic I must say, plenty of boycotts in history have resulted in change.

I don't want to isolate qatar as if it's north korea. I am not boycotting the country itself. If qatar wants to open itself to the world good for them, if they want to welcome foreigners good for them. There's plenty of interaction that can take place.

I am boycotting a competition that is being held in qatar due to massive corruption, where hundreds (probably thousands) of workers died building the infrastructure and where the organization has made a point of being actively anti-lgbt.
 
shamans said:
I don't think a rainbow flag or symbol made its way to Qatar before this world cup. I don't think Qatar has ever had to answer questions on LGBTQ before this world cup.
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Only because they wanted the WC so much. All will revert back as soon as the WC ends. Nothing has changed.
 
Wibble said:
Which will be reversed as soon as the WC is over.
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Speculating on the future is pointless. None of us can say otherwise.

maniak said:
That's a very strange logic I must say, plenty of boycotts in history have resulted in change.

I don't want to isolate qatar as if it's north korea. I am not boycotting the country itself. If qatar wants to open itself to the world good for them, if they want to welcome foreigners good for them. There's plenty of interaction that can take place.

I am boycotting a competition that is being held in qatar due to massive corruption, where hundreds (probably thousands) of workers died building the infrastructure and where the organization has made a point of being actively anti-lgbt.
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Boycotting does achieve things but so does positive reinforcement. Radicalization often takes place when a country/nations efforts are constantly seen as "hmm but not good enough" until they get into mode of total isolation and mistrust.
 
shamans said:
The country has gone as far as saying we don't care if you are gay, if you get your own hotel room go at it but no public display of affection (as it applies to straight folks). It's not perfect but if you compare the change from even the 1990s this would have been unimaginable in a country like Qatar
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Is the HRW lying about cases recorded just a couple of months before the WC where lgbt folks were arrested, beaten and tortured?
 
shamans said:
The country has gone as far as saying we don't care if you are gay, if you get your own hotel room go at it but no public display of affection (as it applies to straight folks). It's not perfect but if you compare the change from even the 1990s this would have been unimaginable in a country like Qatar
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And do you think that attitude is likely to stick around after the world cup? All they've done is barely tolerated the perfectly legitimate lifestyle of a huge swathe of the population for the duration of the event. It's hardly a massive moment for the Qatari LGBTQ+ community. The only good thing it's done is underscored how regressive the attitudes towards the community are.
 
shamans said:
Boycotting does achieve things but so does positive reinforcement. Radicalization often takes place when a country/nations efforts are constantly seen as "hmm but not good enough" until they get into mode of total isolation and mistrust.
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Positive reinforcement is one thing, giving them (through bribery) the organization of one of the planet's most prestigious events is not positive reinforcement, it's the ultimate reward. Reward for nothing at all.
 
maniak said:
Positive reinforcement is one thing, giving them (through bribery) the organization of one of the planet's most prestigious events is not positive reinforcement, it's the ultimate reward. Reward for nothing at all.
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Will you boycott Fifa then? They're the ones accepting a bribe
 
Wibble said:
Still not watched 1 min. Still not sure if boycotting or just no interest. Or both.
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Im wondering what i will think of the next one with 48 teams. Even though NZ will qualify with ease some of the beauty of the WC qualify process will have lost its polish with so many teams.
Im starting to think mostly its because Im a grumpy old man.
 
maniak said:
Then this positive change you keep mentioning is not really happening.
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How is that? Why would we even need a change if these things didn't happen? The whole point of change is to stop that. You have to look at the trend and where it's going.

England killed one of the worlds greatest computer scientists, Alan Turing, a guy who won them the world war because he was homosexual. This was in 1950. This is in a country with centuries of social developments. At least give Qatar a chance of a few decades.
 
shamans said:
Will you boycott Fifa then? They're the ones accepting a bribe
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Thats a major reason for my opposition to this WC, it should have never been given to Qatar because of this, then add in the other issues and the argument becomes more decided for me. FIFA needs to clean its house out.
 
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